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[flagged] Indian Jets Strike on Pakistani Side of Kashmir Line (nytimes.com)
44 points by deepaksurti 21 days ago | hide | past | web | favorite | 54 comments



After a history of the Pakistani government letting terrorists operate/organize within its borders, one can’t be surprised that India has grown tired of the nuclear deterrent preventing them from making progress in curbing attacks in India from Pakistani terror groups.

I agree the situation should be handled delicately, and hopefully diplomatically, to a mutually-agreeable outcome. At the same time, continuing to rely on the Pakistani government to make progress here would be foolish given their poor track record in dealing with domestic terror groups. After all, America acted unilaterally in the hunt for Osama bin Laden because the Pakistani government was unreliable. To this day many sources allege the direct involvement of many Pakistani officials in harboring OBL (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/10/14...).


Note: This is not random attack by India. This was in response to an attack 2 weeks ago by Pakistani terrorists in India which had killed 40+ security personnel. Moreover this was an attack on terrorist camps in hilly/mountaineous terrain.


NYT's anti-India bias is showing.

That said, this was expected. India's diplomacy and restraint has been tested time and time again. It has taken a page from Israel, US & Russia's book. India is only cleaning up the mess that Pakistan should've cleared on its side of the border.


I know nothing about the situation, so what you say may well be true, despite the assurances of Pakistan to the contrary.

However, it may also well be false, despite the assurances of India to the contrary.

I do know that if this escalates into a 'real' war, or, heaven forbid, a nuclear exchange, between the two countries, then the question of whether or not this attack was justified will be completely irrelevant.


We Indian's are fed up of Pakistan's nuclear deterrence. Paki's don't let us live in peace, they harbor the most dangerous of terrorists (Don't forget Osama bin Laden so soon), and they don't wanna give up the thought of terrorizing India.

It's high time these air strikes were conducted. They had it coming. We made sure no civilians were killed. Only those terrorists.


And you are proud of this? Shame.


I am very proud of this. And there is nothing to be ashamed of. India did not attack any civilians or military base, It attacked terrorist training camps. The attack was on an area 50Km after LOC(line of control) which is a part of Kashmir currently occupied by Pakistan. On Feb 14th 44 Indian reserve police were killed in a bomb attack made by the same pakisthan based Jihadi terroriest organisation Jaish-e-Mohammed. I think this is a major action against terror from India.


You don't speak when you know nothing.

Before being techie's or engineer's, we are Indian's first, and we are very proud of these air strikes.

Paki's don't let us live in peace and it's high time the terrorists they harbored were blown off to pieces. Those cowards wage proxy war against us.

Would you call US a coward for raiding bin Laden's camp in Abbottabad and bringing him down? Would you condemn Israel when they target Hamas militants?

Shame and disgrace on you, sir! You have indirectly justified terrorism and Pakistan's cowardice.


It’s against international law to randomly bomb another country. Duh

India didn’t get authorization from the UN Security Council nor was this in self defense.

I think your bias may be showing.


It is against common sense and international law to harbour known terrorists on your soil. Yet Pakistan has repeatedly provided a safehouse.

Till now, US & Pak interests were aligned so US acted as broker, meaning Pak based terrorists went Scott free.

For the first time in history a US president has dropped the usual advice of restraint.

Of course, I'm not saying India should bomb Karachi, that's against common sense. Because civilians are killed in such a strike. But targeting a terror camp on a mountain is justified after you know that 50+ Army men were maryted in a bomb vehicle attack 12days ago. And that terror attack was carried out by JeM


FWIW, that part of Kashmir isn't technically another country. Kashmir's unelected ruler chose to remain independent when he had to choose back in August 1947, Pakistan invaded in September and Kashmir then joined India in October.

The border is labelled "line of control" on the maps. What India bombed is in the part of Kashmir-then-India that Pakistan effectively controls but that other countries don't recognise.


BTW, it wasn't PoK that was attacked. It was Pakistan.


Please see my comment below: this was in response to a terrorist attack in India about 2 weeks ago, which had killed 40+ people, by Pakistani terrorists.

Moreover this targeted terrorist camps in remote areas, and not Pakistani military or civilian targets.


I read elsewhere that this might very well be with tacit agreement from Pak

* India bombs terror camps and can show it's retaliation for the suicide attack.

* Pak has always denied existence of the camps - so of course they 'missed' and bombed empty ground. Helps them save face internally.


I wonder why this news is worthy of being discussed on HN?


Because 2 nuclear powers are going at each other


Hey dang, there's some problematic comments[1][2] in here from godelmachine. As far as I'm aware (and at the very least in the UK), calling someone a "paki" is a slur.

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19254972

[2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19255009


Countries with nuclear weapons should not go to war with each other.


Countries should also not harbor and train and support terrorists that attack neighbors.


You’re right, but avoiding nuclear war is the higher priority. If India and Pakistan want to kick the ahit out of each other they should disarm their nuclear weapons. Imagine for a moment that Russia had been sending terrorist to the US border with Canada. Now imagine that the US started bombing Russian border towns. You would quite rightly, be crappping your pants and focusing on the threat of global annihilation.

Nuclear powers are burdened with a far greater need for restraint out of necessity than non-nuclear powers, even in the face of provocation.


Small, oil-strapped countries should also not start unwinnable wars against superpowers that have 2 times their population, 5 times their GDP, and 10 times their military industrial capacity.

And yet, despite knowing that their cause was hopeless, and that the war would be unwinnable, the government of Imperial Japan knowingly committed suicide, by attacking the United States in 1941.

This is one of the reasons I find the principles underpinning MAD to be fairy tales. In matters of war, belligerents do not behave rationally.


This would be a very stupid reason to jumpstart an apocalypse. You’d really hope nuclear armed neighbors would have more restraint.


Ha ha. Restraint is not an option when 50+ soldiers of said country get suicide bombed by a terrorist group known to be residing with impunity and immunity in the other said country. At this point, it's a wonder it's not all out war.


Of course it’s an option, when the alternative is a potential nuclear holocaust. I’m not denying that Pakistan makes for a miserable neighbor, just that limited engagements with limited casualties are preferable to risking nuclear war.


This was the embodiment of what you call a "limited engagement with limited causalities". The target area was away from civilian population, in a remote area where terrorist outposts had been identified. The flight time was under 30mins. There has been no reports of civilian casualties thus far.


There has been limited engagement for last 70+ years with no result.

As Einstein said, lunacy is doing the same thing again and again and expect a different result.


Was Mr Einstein qualified to comment in international affairs?

Anyway, that expression is misattributed:

https://quoteinvestigator.com/2017/03/23/same/


He said a lot of things, including some piercing observations about the folly of nuclear war. I think he’d also be amused at the notion of a stable and predictable equilibrium resulting from a dynamic system of humans in conflict.


You don't teach us about restraint.

They don't let us live in peace. They try to attack us everyday. They wage a proxy war against us.

We are seriously re-thinking if their nuclear weapons should be taken into account anymore.


How many people are you willing to kill (On your side, or the other side), over a terrorist act that claimed the lives of fifty soldiers?

Fifty?

Five hundred?

Five hundred million?

As many as it takes? Or is there a limit?

What if the conflict kills five hundred people on your side, and fifty on theirs? Do you also consider that a good exchange?


Why does one have to kill people from one side or the other? The strike was done on the terrorists which in this case happen to be on Pakistan side.

Terrorism isn't going away itself. One or both the nations need to take action on them.


As many as it takes to either make Pakistan change its course or the terrorists are wiped out.

Everyone who was killed in this attack was willing to die to kill innocent Indians, civilians included. So, from that standpoint it is a completely justified attack.


Thanks god there are no casualties.


I don't understand why to thank god for that. Pakisthan have denied the existence of such terrorist organisation even though the last surgical strick from India killed over 50 jihadis who were trained to attack India. The attack was done by 12 mirage aircraft carrying bombs weighing over 1000kgs. This have a destructive radius over 15 kms. The Indian intel and the state is claming that there is anywhere beteen 300-400 Jihadis killed in this attack. Major strike on terror from Indian side.


It's a figure of speech. I am an atheist.


Well, according to Indian media 200-300 terrorists were killed. Of course Pakistan says no one was killed.


I'd advise everyone to wait until it's confirmed. The fake news problem in India is at another level.


It was reported by Pakistan that this had happened, before Indian media had reported.


What happened exactly? Nobody's arguing that Indian planes crossed the LoC. But did they really bomb all the terrorist camps? Were the terrorists really killed? Were there really no civilian casualties? How do we know? In fact, how do they know? No source outside Indian media hasn't confirmed these details. Not just that, the Indian media itself hasn't provided evidence to back these claims


A fool's election winning strategy is putting more than a few billion people at risk of nuclear apocalypse!

Note that the Pakistani analysts predicted this a long time ago (Indian opposition parties also understand this) that the Indian PM Modi would create a war like situation with Pakistan before their upcoming elections.


Example: https://twitter.com/AsharJawad/status/1072387135485943808 "After BJP defeat in state elections & Pakistan's masterstroke in Kartarpur, Indian estab. is on backfoot. Don't rule out false flags in Kashmir & India (esp. INC ruled Punjab) followed by border skirmishes with Pak to revive Hindutva nationalism ahead of 2019 G.E. Ram Mandir too."


Oh dear the ISI machine is out :D


This is highly irresponsible with the possibility of escalation of hostilities between the nuclear armed neighbors. As some one rightly pointed out nuclear powers carry the additional burden of restraint.


Yeah well, next time travel to Pakistan and try explaining "responsibilities" and "world peace" to them. I would love to observe that conversation.


And this potential for escalation does not bother you?


Honestly, with intense warmongering and politics being broadcast 24/7 in my country, I come to HN to discuss better than what one zealot wants to do to another. I already woke up to the news that India had crossed the border, felt sad, decided to browse HN for intellectually stimulating debate and found this instead.

Let's please stick to hacker-friendly content? This stuff will just invites a flamewar, and we've got enough war talk happening in the real world.


[flagged]


Note: #PMKB is a trending hashtag based on a video[0] where a kid says "Pakistan (ki) ma ka bhosda" which translates to "Pakistan's mother vagina", or more loosely, to "fuck Pakistan's mom".[1]

I never thought I'd see something like this on HN, but there's a first time for everything.

[0]: https://twitter.com/neeraj21345/status/1097583981304852483

[1]: This citation translates it incorrectly, but I speak the language. It still corroborates the gist of the content. https://twitter.com/neeraj21345/status/1097585602365542400


When 1.2 Billion people are saying to Pakistan to stop supporting the terrorist and to stop providing them safe heavens, they are denying that there is no terrorist in Pakistan despite the fact that Osama Bin Ladan was captured and killed on their grounds and numerous other terrorist organisations broadcasting terror from their base in Pakistan. India has always been a country that has never attacked any country first. The current government came in to power saying that they will fight the war on terror. And when they do it all the Indians are with them irrespective of the religion or political ideologies. #PMKB is a hashtag trending in the social media which literally translate it to the above-mentioned meaning. It is the rage against terror.


Did you feel sad when Pakistan harbored terrorists blow up innocents in India? Did you feel sad on 14th Feb when JeM attacked the military convoy trucks?


The nationalistic flamewar that you did in this thread is not acceptable on Hacker News. It will get you banned here regardless of how right you are, or how wrong others are, or how wrong you feel they are. Please do not post like this to HN again.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html


I've had no concrete evidence of Pakistan harboring fugitives yet so I have no feeling either way. I'd condemn it if it were true.

I did feel sad even JeM attacked the military convey along with every Pakistani in my immediate surrounding. A loss of life is a terrible thing, and we've been victims of terrorism for years. I'm sorry, were you expecting a different response?


Everyone know about hijacked Indian Aeroplane in Afghanistan in 1999 to free Masood Azhar He can be seen now in news in Pakistan channels. I don't know why Pakistan is scared of handing him over to India if they don't support terrorism. He is not a government official or army man or any other person of importance as per Pakistan narrative.


[flagged]


I've answered your first questions but when I couldn't satisfy you, you ask different rhetorical question? You're shifting the goal post at this point, mate. I can only answer straight questions. If by your definition that, and calling war a bad thing is warmongering, consider me guilty.

There's never been any concrete evidence of Pakistani involvement, and trust me I've spent my time looking into the diplomatic cables, Hacking Group leaks, searching through Urdu texts, etc. I've only ever been able to find evidence of right suppression in the case of the Pushtoon Tahaffuz Movement, and I've called it for what it is. You can name alleged names, or point to circumstances as you wish but if you believe in something without direct evidence, I can't help you there.

Just know that if Pakistan responds to this escalation in kind, this "belligerent Pakistani masquerading as a pacifist" will be sad then, too.


[flagged]


No, if you find something you're welcome to share it.

> This is getting funny now

Since this conversation isn't constructive, I'm going to disengage now. Have a pleasant night!




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