Huawei could pose a security threat but we already know by now that this is all about the economy and maintaining America's indisputed supremacy at all costs. After China, EU will be the next buggy man.
I can see that happening too with the amount of anti-EU rhetoric happening at the moment. I mean I'm not going to defend every piece of legislation the EU has passed but some of the comments levied against the EU from their US counterparts have been down right hypocritical.
The Chicken Tax has been around for decades but manufacturers do work around it.
It is my belief that one positive result of the Trump’s Presidency is that other nations have to confront the reality that Americans are willing/able to elect an incompetent psychopath. This forces them to realize that they can’t rely on American stability. We have become erratic and unpredictable. Hence they will need to become less reliant on the U.S. I see this as a good thing.
I see the U.S. in a state of imperial decline and I’m glad for it. I’m not a supporter of Trump but I try to be objective and won’t deny that he’s done some good.
I suggest it would have been better to say, “You know, that topic you are posting about in a rather misinformed way.”. And then gone on to state how it was misinformed. As it is your post comes across as angry/bitter. Like you have an ax to grind so to speak. You sound extremist and I get the impression that you think I think of Trump as some benevolent leader.
We'd rather be fixing our own domestic problems like our crumbling infrastructure.
Trump campaigned on that.
Another viewpoint would be that this is based on self-interest.
The USA bombing Iraq because Hussein wanted to sell oil in another currency other than the USD and leaving the so called rest of the world with the humantarian crisis would be one counter example to the crutch-theory.
All of that combined, plus the growing need to address our own impoverished parts of the country is making a lot of people in the US think it's time to let Europe do it's own thing.
I totally understand wanting to focus on domestic problems but all too often campaigns based on that like to blame everyone but those who are responsible for domestic problems. We saw this with the UK's EU referendum (or "Brexit" as it's now known) where immigration was a key point. We saw this with a great many despots that come to power that blame other cultures corrupting their way of life. Even Hitler used the same rhetoric. And what good does it ever bring us? The US has had frequent shutdowns and regressions to universal health care and the growth of the UK's economy has slowed, cost of goods have gone up and jobs have and will be lost. We are all worse off for it!
Blaming everyone else for your own domestic problems wont help solve your domestic problems. In fact more often than not, you're only going to make them worse because you're just giving more power to those who actually cause those problems to begin with.
Trump campaigned on whatever the audience of the moment was cheering for. So far he's cut taxes on the ultra wealthy to the point we can't afford to fix infrastructure if we wanted to. Gutted the EPA, refused to impose bipartisan sanctions on Russia, and is talking about stealing land and hurricane relief money to build a wall that nobody wants besides that painted-on-hair racist Stephen Miller.
European auto makers have massive sales in the US as do Chinese manufacturers of all sorts of things.
Given the proclivity of China to use their IT skills for all sorts of shenanigans, noted in the news daily, it's beyond reasonable for Western nations to be concerned about having a government backed entity 'in between' all of the most important information in the country.
This is an issue that has to be worked out.
There is nothing conspirational. It's the new foreign policy.
China appers in the news b/c it's still the clumsy underdog. U.S has done the hacking and all the spy stuff for decades.
Privacy IS something I'd be willing to pay for, but that's not an option. If the US government and corporations wanted me to trust them, they shouldn't have spied on our communications at every turn and then attempted to silence every whistleblower. The US calling out Huawei on security concerns is obviously the pot calling the kettle black, and I don't think many people internationally will be persuaded.
Any government could make a serious play for privacy by making some privacy laws with civil and criminal penalties for violation, and protections and rewards for whistleblowers. But as things are currently, lack of privacy comes standard with communication devices from any country, and Americans calling Huawei out for it is just inane posturing.
A foreign country can release sensitive information strategically, for example, as a kind of psychological warfare, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demoralization_(warfare)
Our politicians are grim enough without some dude rocking from the Chinese Ministry of State Security and extorting them into doing something worse than the thing they'd already do anyway*
* if that is possible sometimes.
Yes, indeed, as an individual nobody cares about you. However you are a part of general census and by spying on you and everyone around you they can predict what you are thinking, what you are craving, what political stance you hold, what are the risks of you being involved in some future problems for them etc. You can go wider and wider to a city, to a state and finally to a country. Then, for example China can really see what american citizens are thinking in general and this is valuable information.
Also, second reason why you are completely missing the point. Let's say you are one of those "I don't care if they spy on me, let them record me on my toilet." - Now your kids are involved in some political activity and you did not pay your taxes for one month 7 years ago. Government wants to suppress your kids political activity and just tell them either they stop or their father (you) go to jail. At least this is how it works in totalitarian countries.
So why are they hoovering it all up? Every last piece of digital dust they can get.
You're not important until you stumble across evidence of a Five Eye nation committing war crimes or try to whistleblow on the IC breaking laws or run for political office trying to limit military budgets or just about anything that goes against the narrative of faceless people in faceless buildings who can and do maintain their power using the tools they have available. When was the last time the Intelligence Community said the world was getting safer and they needed less funding?
Has a single person been prosecuted for the blatant crimes revealed by Edward Snowden? How about MKUltra, did even one person go to trial for the deranged human experiments conducted on American citizens by the American Government?
Everyday people need protection from these lawless organisations more than ever to be able to shine a light on injustices without fear. Society won't advance without it, the Western World world will start spinning it's wheels like authoritarian China and friends where everyone keeps their heads down in passive obedience and liberties go backwards.
Besides, surely in the future there could be a more automated intelligence brokerage between nations - who knows how long the current political climate lasts before it gets replaced with something more like HFT intelligence trading between the MSS and NSA.
Nonsense. The leaders on the US are not on my side, why should I be on theirs?
Killing people in foreign wars is done in the name of protecting me, but I didn't ask for that, and I don't believe it protects me. In fact, it's painfully obvious to me that if you kill people in foreign countries, it incentivizes their families to come here and kill Americans. US leaders aren't protecting us.
The fact is, I'm more likely to be shot by an American cop than I am to be affected by China. If I'm going to prioritize personal security, it's going to be against the threats most likely to cause me harm.
Which ever nations spying on another nations which you don't have a choice. And that is not just social security, but also national security and business security. The implication is much wider.
The fact is, most US citizens are more likely to be shot by a cop than affect in any way negatively by the Chinese government.
No, I don't, and those who do are obviously incompetent at it.
Considering the low-quality of security in Chinese products, you are much more susceptible to be spied upon by the Chinese...and the American spy agencies, and Russia spy agencies, and criminal groups, and so on.
or indeed by your own employer:
if we would really be worried about security (and not politics / foreign policy war mongering) we'd be speaking about threat models.. And here the China Supply Chain Threat doesn't hold up. Backdoor hardware implants are only tangentially interesting since the vulnerabilities that stem from shoddy engineering (hello crappy ASN.1 parsers and a thousand other flaws: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1093301841205456896.html) are much cheaper to harness than some hypothetical purpose-made backdoor that costs millions to implement and keep covered-up. (Occam's razor)
What they theoretically could do is to use them to assist in targeted surveillance of small number people, or cause major mobile infrastructure collapse during major conflict.
However, the Chinese would be very careful about using them. Every time you do, you risk getting caught, because just in that moment someone on the target network could be running wireshark to debug some unrelated problem. And once you're caught you're done. You won't risk that to fetch some random HN user's browsing history to blackmail them.
The Chinese government has fewer ways they can use my data against me
The Chinese government can do MORE because they can do things that would be illegal in America.
That's not to say our government doesn't skirt the law, but it definitely is harder and there can be consequences.
No. But it's much more likely that US bad actors will blackmail me than that Chinese ones will.
Those is glass houses...
I don't trust my Huawei modem, but with IMSI catchers, the whole discussion is academic anyway.
that's like saying you don't bother with security because someone could force you to unlock your devices at gunpoint anyways. IMSI catchers only reveal your location and any unencrypted traffic, plus you need to be physically close to your target. compare this to a backdoored phone which has access to everything you do on it and can be accessed from the other side of the world.
Sure: the Chinese might be much worse. But they might also not be. So far, I haven't heard of intensive drone usage by the Chinese to bomb weddings half way around the world.
But you surely heard of "missing people" in China after speaking against the government. What if this very comment would put you in prison for the rest of your life or worse, get you a death penalty(with or without trial) ?
I'm pretty sure China would do some atrocious things given the chance to fight a foreign enemy. There is no real rule of law in China. That's the issue with all the communist/dictatorship system.
If you hang around with terrorists in a war zone(i.e Afganistan) you can expect your rights to be violated. Surely mistakes are made in a war. That quite different than being kidnapped from your home for expressing different political views.
Or in such places as Italy, just walking around, being an imam. Google Abu Omar.
But, have you seen any such trial in China? You may be put in jail for even demanding prosecution of the officials responsible for such acts. The press is not allowed to talk/write about such things.
China like all the communist countries and authoritan states(i.e Russia) has no real rule of law. In practice the party leaders are the law.
They have show trials of corrupt politicians, just like we do. What does that matter, though? The CIA will continue exactly the same way, with or without some show trial. As will those Chinese government officials who weren't used as an example of Xi's latest war on corruption.
> You may be put in jail for even demanding prosecution of the officials responsible for such acts. The press is not allowed to talk/write about such things.
I'm not saying they are great. I'm saying maybe stop pretending we are. Sure, we have great explanations for all the extra-legal things ("they were terrorists", "this was a special case, it will never happen again", "it was wrong, the low level official responsible was punished") we do, but so do they.
It would be so much easier to criticize them for the stuff they do if the CIA didn't have torture camps all over the world and wouldn't kidnap people "just because" and get away with it by pointing the finger at China or Russia and saying "look, they are much worse than we are".
Sure, and that's terrible, there's no question about it. But it does not affect people outside China in the same way that the US's actions affect them.
China might very well do the same things the US does if they ever get to be the planet's only super power. But they are not, so why overhype the possibilities?
This isn't for the Chinese government or the Australian government. This is for the American government because of the FACTA law.
The US government wants to have jurisdiction of everyone ... just in case you might be an American not paying taxes.
So don't invest large amounts in dividend-paying Chinese stocks if you plan on living in China long-term, I guess.
Edit: Can you find a better source? All of the sources I find say that "it is not clear" if the 5-year rule and 30-day leave reset still applies. Therefore, one should plan for the situation that it does not apply anymore.
How can you be sure that the NSA is any better than the chinese?
If North Korea would become U.S's ally against China, Kim would be presented(by US) as a strong man and the rightfull leader for NK people(i.e like MBS in SA)
You better make sure you don't have to choose between any of them (U.S or China). Get better relations with your neighbours and try to rely less on super powers(i.e US, China, Russia)
Sourcing foreign components alone massively increases risk surface area, never mind a full-scale nationwide implementation of an astoundingly complex tech.
It's also true that the US government spies on its own citizens to a degree that's debated in the post-Snowden era. So I certainly believe all phone call (and probably email) metadata is spied upon (and no doubt a sampling of the content for each). And NSLs and pen registers are obviously a thing. I certainly don't believe the tinfoil hats who think that a significant portion of Internet traffic of the tech giants is eavesdropped upon however just based on how much data that is.
Contrast this to China. Questionable rule of law. Chinese companies and their leaders are certainly complicit with the Chinese government and intelligence agencies. There have been recent stories about how the Muslim population is spied upon and/or put in "re-education" camps (this has also happened with other groups like Falun Gong). China continues a policy of erasing Tibet. Xi Jinping is largely installed himself as a Putinesque dictator (eg term limits for the presidency were recently abolished).
Given a choice between the US spying on me and China, it wouldn't even be close. The US "wins" hands down. At least I have some faith that there are limits to what the US can and will do and that the government can be held accountable to some degree (at least a far larger degree than in China).
China has aggressively pursued an agenda to further its national interest that includes the arguable exploitation of developing nations (through loans for capital programs), intellectual property theft from the developed world (through forced "partnerships" as well as repatriating Chinese nationals and outright hacking eg Google).
As largely tech people here we all know something about security. To me it's obvious that ceding control of your network (with all the potential harm that could do) to a foreign government is a national security issue.
Huawei (and others eg ZTE) have been caught here as bad actors and not actors I personally would trust if I had anything worth protecting.
China plays favourites with its own companies. It has clearly decided that it doesn't want a foreign company to control a local market, any local market, which is why you have the likes of Baidu, Alibaba and Tencent instead of Google, Amazon and Facebook. And no it's not because foreign companies don't understand the Chinese market. It's because the Chinese government wills it.
Access to China's 1B citizens has been dangled as a carrot to the developed world for years. It should be clear that the game is rigged.
So, if China has decided not to relinquish control of domestic markets to foreign companies, why shouldn't the US respond in kind?
And, conveniently, there are ad-hoc courts (FISA) for when you have to "legalize" massive surveillance.
> see all the actions and settlements with Swiss banks as examples
Meanwhile, banks at home apparently have no problem with this... As long as it benefits american corporations, of course.
> Contrast this to China. Questionable rule of law. Chinese companies and their leaders are certainly complicit with the Chinese government and intelligence agencies
Oh, I'm sure the NSA didn't have their support...:
> There have been recent stories about how the Muslim population is spied upon and/or put in "re-education" camps
Meanwhile in your country, 2% of your population is imprisoned (more than any other country in the world), and illegal immigrants are being detained FOR YEARS. Talk about "re-education camps"
> Xi Jinping is largely installed himself as a Putinesque dictator (eg term limits for the presidency were recently abolished).
The Clintons have been in power for how many years? What about the Bush family, Bolton and friends?
Also, have you ever questioned the amount of power US corporations have? Apparently not...
> Given a choice between the US spying on me and China, it wouldn't even be close. The US "wins" hands down.
I'm sure the US "wins" too, they can spy on you freely, and are said to be able to collect practically all your phone calls and 10% of all internet traffic (i.e., all data, excluding videos and other irrelevant stuff).
> China has aggressively pursued an agenda to further its national interest that includes the arguable exploitation of developing nations
They are literally copying what the US and Western powers have taught them. At least they don't bomb random countries thousands of miles away from their homeland under the argument of "freeing" them and "defending democracy", unlike US & EU neocolonial powers.
> As largely tech people here we all know something about security. To me it's obvious that ceding control of your network
And that includes trusting your own govt., right? People who "know something about security" should know that you simply can't do anything against governments... Much less against the most powerful govt. on this planet.
> Huawei (and others eg ZTE) have been caught here as bad actors and not actors I personally would trust if I had anything worth protecting.
Unlike those "accidental" backdoors in Cisco equipment, which your ISP probably trusts 100%?
> China plays favourites with its own companies
Exactly what the US govt. does when it talks about "national interests". Or, do you think your government is there to defend YOUR interests?
> It has clearly decided that it doesn't want a foreign company to control a local market, any local market, which is why you have the likes of Baidu, Alibaba and Tencent instead of Google, Amazon and Facebook. And no it's not because foreign companies don't understand the Chinese market. It's because the Chinese government wills it
And they are right to do so. Why would they let a government that is known to play dirty control of their population? Obama, the democrat, a Nobel peace prize, bombarded 8 countries, even more than Bush Jr., yet people still believe he was a "good leader" and "better than Bush". It doesn't take much intelligence to notice the brainwashing...
> Access to China's 1B citizens has been dangled as a carrot to the developed world for years.
The US has been doing that for decades. And anyone who dares disobey gets a coup d'etat or destroyed.
> It should be clear that the game is rigged.
Indeed... It is rigged by the US (govt and corporations), against anyone who wants to compete fairly.
> So, if China has decided not to relinquish control of domestic markets to foreign companies, why shouldn't the US respond in kind?
Yeah, the US should mind its own business, leave China AND the rest of the world alone, and not play world police, stop cheating, stop imposing its ideology, and so on.
Seriously, go read some history books.