https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M78rlxEMBxk (NSFW)
No matter how liberal you are, you're shooting you a future self in the foot if you profess a unconditional disregard of moralizing, because eventually you may discover that you do actually have morals. All it takes to get enligtened is for something bad enough to get spread around.
Edit: don't get misled by thinking I'm using the Twitter/Cable News vernacular, by liberal I mean "permissive," and by progressive I mean "in favor of changing things." Those categories could apply to the forces in any culture, even historical cultures.
I don’t think I’m unusual either, I think most people are defined by more than one stance, and I don’t think relative morality is the province of left or right. You’re making a good point about the merits of accepting the moral dimensions of life, don’t let politics dilute that message. Progressive, Conservative... only a crazy person is just one of those things.
I'm not talking about political groups; by any measure in urban areas the political group called liberals would be just "normal," or "average." Progressive doesn't mean "Democrat," a Democrat in a blue county that believes things should be the same tomorrow as they are today is by definition a conservative.
It sounds like you're saying people ought to go back to being homophobic, for example, because it will save us from a slippery slope to pedophilia?
Your video seems to be about a pedophile who is upset that the LGBT community isn't inclusive of pedophilia. I don't understand what point you were trying to make by linking that.
And in Germany for example, there is quite the long and sordid history regarding that, among other things with people trying to legalize "consentual" [sic] sexual relations between minors and adults, but I don't know if there is anything thorough in the English language about it:
And that was directly in the wake of working against discrimination of homosexuality. For some naive people, it all fell under the umbrella of "being different sexually", and for pedophiles, that was how they tried to get a foot in the door.
> Die Debatte über die Legalisierung pädosexueller Akte ist historisch eng verbunden mit der Forderung nach Abschaffung des § 175 (StGB)
> the debate about the legalization of pedosexual acts is historically tightly connected with the demand to get rid of [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paragraph_175 ]
Or hey, this
An article about an article that appeard in 1979 in the taz, declaring pedophilia is a victimless crime in the title. One sentence from that:
> Bei einem Blick in die Archive wird klar: Teile des linksalternativen Milieus sympathisierten mit Pädophilen - zumindest boten sie ihnen einen ideologischen Rahmen.
> A look into the archives makes it obvious that parts of the alternative left scene sympathized with pedophiles - at least they provided an ideological framework to them.
So, that already happened. And it absolutely was fueled by being overzealous about being liberal and progressive -- that's not what made anyone a pedophile, but that's how some people fell for the schemes of pedophiles, and let themselves and their networks be used. That's a fact. I'm not familiar with similar things in North America but I wouldn't outright bet on not finding anything if I had the nerve to go looking, which I don't at this time.
edit: there's ignorance, and there's active suppression of information. what a cesspool.
They don't say what they disagree with, but they punish the poster. That's much more active than just having a qualm about calling something out, it's attacking people who call it out.
And of course, this thread isn't very active to begin with, yet is already getting flagged by many, even jumped from the second page back to the first, but will still remain penalized and at best at bottom of page 1 for a little while [edit: nope, vanished from page 1 in the time it took me to write the rest of this comment, there you go]. Again, apart from the people who have qualms calling anything out, additional activity to suppress the calling out that takes place. That's not an impression, that's a fact.
More generally, consider how 'pointing out that something could be rephrased as "think of the children"' is some kind of mic-drop killer argument for many here, as if that would automatically disqualify anything, like a Nazi comparison does in the minds of some:
Hopefully that’s not too surprising of a statement (regardless of your personal views).
This is clearly a topic with extreme potential for heated, off-topic debate. I don’t think Hacker News is the right forum for this discussion.
If “you have something genuinely new to say”  by all means, feel free to share it.
But if parents of 13 year old girls are encouraging them to do soft porn videos, that's exploitation. However, check out the pre-teen "modeling" thing in the US. That's basically soft porn, and it's popular.
We have come to such a low point of moral thinking that “who will think of the children?” has become nothing but a meme. But teenage suicide and psychological ills of all kinds are at record record highs, so perhaps it is worth our while to think of the children after all.
OK, so I'm making this up, but if I were a 13 year old girl today, and I knew that I could make $1K per day doing soft porn, I wouldn't think twice. I mean, I'd be very careful to stay as anonymous as possible. But seriously, doing YouTube videos is orders of magnitude more secure than hosting a webcam on your public IP address from home.
Maybe you'll call bullshit on that. Because, you know, I'm male. But when I was 13, I was hacking on unexploded WWII munitions that we found lying around in the woods. And that's gotta be at least as hazardous as making soft porn for YouTube.
Also, when I was in my mid teens, I had a 13 year old girlfriend. And she would definitely have made soft porn for YouTube, if it had existed then. Even without the prospect of making $1K per day.
So yeah, it's a tough question. If you think that 13 is too young, what's an OK age?
With that reasoning, they ought to be wearing burquas.
But the beauty here is that you get to monetize the pedophiles. And of course, good OPSEC is essential, given the dangers.
So the fact this girl uses her meatspace name is an OPSEC fail.
And maybe it's just that I've never been a parent. So what I remember is what it was like to be a child. Indeed, some would say that I still am a child, and I'm OK with that.
Anyway, when do we get the right to exercise free will? When I was about eight, I felt that I had it. And many religions do think that sinning becomes possible at about that age. So what's magic about 18 or 21?
there it is.
(please be warned this is very NSFW)
It was eventually re-instated and the strike removed, but for a while there the drama surrounding this imbalance of discourse was through the roof on reddit.
I have just watched it, so far I disagree with him (this ASMR channel is weird as fuck but I don't think it makes it sexual) but I don't see what would justify taking down his video.
Do you mean that his video was taken down because it sexualizes a child ?
If so, that's almost as weird as these videos themselves
From what I remember of the video :
He made some very strange "weird shaming" : "if you need to listen to ASMR to fall asleep, you are weird dude".. what if somebody needs to listen to that ? I don't entirely get the appeal, but I don't see how weird shuffled sound are so different from whale songs. And from this video logic, people who listen to that are into bestiality.
His main argument seemed to be that the main goal of this asmr channel is to sexualize a 13 yo. Which if true is obviously very shocking and needs legal action but I did not find his argument very convincing. Some weirdo leaving one comment on her instagram and one weird video are not super convincing.
Proving that there was a pattern of such comments and vids would have been appropriate (and he could have made this video without making fun of random kids)
I would have made similarly weird vids before puberty because I understood maybe 20% of the context.
The accusations are very grave, and they might even be real. I can understand if he does not want to spend months investigating this weird channel but they would warrant a better basis.
Before going after asmr, take a close look at who watches the gymnastics and cheerleading "demos". Pole dancing is also now a sport for kids. That is on youtube too.
I once taught a law class where we had to discuss this stuff. If you take away every "sexualized" image of an under-18 you are blacklisting huge areas of modern culture, everything from family sitcoms to superhero movies. Some disney movies have scenes that are shocking when you play them on thier own, many ironically on youtube... which made playing them during lectures much easier on me.
His video is both funny and hard to watch due to the extremely awkward sexual undertones. So to answer your question, is this sexual?
Yes, and that seems to be the intent of whoever is running that channel.
See for yourself: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M78rlxEMBxk
Without clarity, if there is room for debate, i side with not restricting the speech rights of these kids.
Imho they looked less sexy than literaly very cold.
I work in a similar field. Inducing weird feelings and related trippy stuff. I tend to the other end of the spectrum tho. Crass strobes. Full saturation. Lots of throbbing.
If we can do drugs via digital audiovideoetc then.... a very important field of development is suggested.
Have you experienced significant perceptual changes from viewing them for extended durations? Are there specific sequences / parameters you've found to be more powerful than others?
If you don't mind sharing, I'm also curious to know what language you're using to write the software!
synchronizing the audio with the video. Video strobes correspond to audio strobes.
Some kind of simple physical-metaphor sound and video logic. Like, bigger = lower, smaller= higher. Certain colors correspond to certain sounds. Simple stuff like that.Like cartoon logic.
Total engrossment of the senses. Fill them up compltelely (thus "whelmer"). I see smell, tactile effects... stuff like that, being incorporated later.
There is definitely some kind of trance thing happening.
There is another tech at my site (fleen.org) called "clouded plain" that uses moving intersecting vibrating stripes. MUCH hallucinations off of that. Little kids like it very much. They just stand and stare.
I wrote it in java.
You really should download a hq copy and view it projected large (like 6-10 feet tall) with nice speakers. Here : https://www.dropbox.com/s/6t9skr0ua4le5ma/whelmer46a_5m.mkv?...
I used to make stuff like this with processing + arduino for inputs, with some fun results that are sadly lost to time.
The vibrating round thing. The "Whelmer". It's these randomly generated moving fuzzy rings. Moving in or out. Intersecting.
The sound isn't so much gotten from a sampling of the visuals as a sampling of the same data that the visuals also sample. That data being a big array of integers, basically.
To see it properly you really should download a high-quality video and watch it projected big (like 6' tall) with good speakers.
Here's a nice one : https://www.dropbox.com/s/6t9skr0ua4le5ma/whelmer46a_5m.mkv?...
Generative art != glitch art, but these might be of interest to some people as well, since there was thread about a week ago on PNG glitching, and I went down a rabbithole saving links.
java has a nice low level audio generation tech where you just make a big integer array.
I take a radial sample of this field of cells, convert it to audo.... ok, there is no science going on here. I just fucked with the code until it sounded good. Several magic numbers involved. See my github at fleen.org/generative-art for the actual code. The sound generation is only a few dozen lines.
View it projected large (like 6-10 feet tall). Use good speakers too.
I can spontaneously generate this tingling feeling at will by moving my chest muscles ever so slightly. This act lifts my shoulders a tiny bit and results in a mild pulse descending from the back of my head that flows through the spine. Doing this continuously 3-4 times results in goosebumps in the right weather conditions.
I got a similar feeling(comparitively milder than what I could generate spontaneously) when I watched/listened-to one of the ASMR videos which made me wonder if there a way to quantitatively measure these ASMR responses claimed by people.
When I was a child I thought it was conscious generation of adrenaline. Now I'm wiser I know that's probably not true, but it certainly feels very similar.
Despite the low score at time of this comment, I think this is a defensible concern for the same reason attributing kid's success to hard work leads to better outcomes than attributing it to talent.
The shape of the linkage between work and reward established during development has meaningful implications for discipline/motivation/expectations down the line.
If this kid actually gets rich, the money's treated well, and they stay rich, then good on em. But I wouldn't want to ASMR through my tweens and have the money stop, and then have warped expectations in a reality that doesn't care about those expectations.
On the other hand, if the expectation becomes "you can be spectacularly successful being prolific and meeting the demand of an hungry audience", maybe that's a great lesson.
* not saying the particular characteristics of this story are not a little creepy
Just look at some of the comments left on her videos. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M78rlxEMBxk
I've recently seen media celebrating kids in sexualized drag, not even condemning 11 year olds dancing for money in bars.
I'm completely blindsided how HN people are downvoting the comments highlighting the pedophilia.
I used to think of it as, "That tingling feeling in your head when you learn new things." And there are so many triggers. Throughly enjoyable to explore.
* What The H-ck is ASMR!? - YouTube || https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFqbWwKg_o4
But... yeah, look, the kid doing it in sexy clothing... pure cringe.
* Kids doing ASMR is a problem - YouTube || https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M78rlxEMBxk
As was YouTube's response to all of this. TL;DR: YouTube removed the critic's video of the kid's video, saying the critic's video was "sexual" but they left the kid's video.
* Apparently Kids Doing ASMR Was A Problem: YouTube Deletes Video - YouTube || https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JM4OwGhchUA
Now all the videos are back, but some have been de-monetized.
I am singing the praises of the unfettered free market. No central bureau would ever think to meet the demand for this stuff.
Edit: Because this is a toxic subject and there will never be interesting or productive conversation about it, not here or anywhere.
But viewers most likely include other children. Plus the soft pedophilia market. Which is huge.
And yeah, this is just a more sophisticated take on the cam whore thing. With lots more protection of performers from their audience. As long as it's totally child-driven, I don't think that it's problematic. But when parents are pushing their kids, it becomes exploitation.
But who can tell for sure? You did not make a cogent point in your first post since people aren’t paying for these types of videos. They are watching them for free and the money comes from the ads served along side the videos. You should be asking what kind of person pays to sponsors these types of videos. I sorta agree your point isn’t refuted, but that’s mainly because it’s not coherent so logic can’t really be applied.
Anyway, I only point all this out because I think you have a good heart and the right sentiment but are losing the argument in the delivery.
I suspect this stuff is slipping through the cracks because these videos seem like normal nonsense to most people. “People watch videos of people whispering? Weird but so is almost all the rest of what other people watch on YouTube...” But apparently there’s some kind of sexualization in these videos for some people and that’s what actually makes them so popular. Very worrisome when we’re seeing children doing these videos. Raising awareness that these are actually sexual is important. I think 99% of people, including advertisers, just don’t see it and don’t realize it.