The Zero is advertised as being $5, and it makes me angry every time, because it's not possible to buy it at that price.
Every Pi retailer either has a one-per-customer limit, and charges shipping, or, charges up to $15(!) per Zero if you buy more than one.
So it's essentially a $15 device being advertised as $5. I shouldn't be so annoyed about it, but I can think of so many cool uses for multiple Zeros, and I just can't get them.
They sell the Pi Zero (W) at such a low price to promote the platform for educational and non-commercial purposes. However, the margins are so low at that price that they cannot afford to sell in bulk. They apparently do offer bulk buys (>500 ) at higher prices.
The few options to buy multiple are to buy kits (which basically pass that bulk pricing in the form of overpriced accessories), or at a higher price (e.g. I see $22 on Amazon), or be very patient and keep ordering.
Typically, ordering in bulk is how you _support_ low margins, by amortizing all the various fixed overheads. What I suspect you mean is 'the margins are negative, and we're hoping to make it up via attach rate.'
BTW has anyone here found the 'introduction video' Techcrunch mentions in the article, that they say makes such a good case for the store? The only one I can find is the music video one that really doesn't make a case for anything. Unless that's the one they mean? Confused.
The aim is to pull in real people with single sales, both to grow their community and support further sales down the line of more powerful hardware.
Bulk selling these to industry for [near]-disposable application doesn't help the organisation or its aims. It also forces them up another rung of production capacity and warehousing, which is a serious expense.
personally would have rather seen them priced at a value it could be bulk ordered. As many others pointed out, they are neat to build multi node projects or prototypes of doodles with.
"* In effect, since the Zero(W) would cannibalise sales from the other models, we lose the profit margin we would make on the P3. Cannot afford to do that in quantity."
Or, more specifically, their intent is to undercut any manufacturer that would want to make a very low cost board at a sustainable profit margin to prevent one from taking hold.
You can buy as many Orange Pi Zero's (with WiFi) as you want, any day of the year for $12.76 (the price goes even down slightly if you buy more than one) .
I have an open source project I've been working on for some time, it's based around the Pi Zero W, however, here in the UK it's practically impossible to get more than one Zero W unless you order individually from each site and pay shipping individually for each. Even then, you'll be paying at least £12+shipping per unit. It's wasteful and needless to do all this individual shipping.
Is not just a case of buying individually until I can get all the Pis I need, because once I release, if users have the same issues getting the hardware, the project is pointless.
For now the project is sitting on a shelf until I find an alternative platform or Pi stops this 1 unit per customer "shortage".
I struggle to see how your inability to buy lots of Pis disagrees with that.
Where did you get that idea? From the raspberry pi website:
> Our mission is to put the power of computing and digital making into the hands of people all over the world.
From my point of view, the fragility of having to deal with a microSD card makes a Pi-like solution a complete non-starter if you want to scale.
(need the additional benefits of a full Linux stack) && (the modest hardware of the Pi Zero W is enough) && (are shipping stuff at scale yet can live with the flakyness of microSD)?
This thread just shows how confusing the situation is, and it isn't even clear to me that it helps in promoting the education side, further it damages the brand and puts people off buying.
Why not have a school and student channel, so that they can buy at $5. And then sell it at a higher cost retail? Everyone knows where they stand, schools can bulk buy $5 zeros, which presumably they can't now. The current system just seems to be a mess.
The price really is a lie for consumers. Maybe $5 refers to the price they sell to distributors, who need to mark it up.
If you want 2-5, it's $10 each, and if you want 6+, it's $15 each.
This is exactly my point. It's asinine to advertise it at $5. If you don't live near a physical Microcenter, it's not even $5 for one, because they charge shipping too.
Hard to blame the market for correcting, they're worth way more than $5.
In the absence of component shortages, they could up production of Zeros by 10x or more if they wanted to. And the Zero barely has any components, so a component shortage seems unlikely.
If there's such high market demand that the product constantly sells out when offered for the MSRP, why haven't they just told their manufacturer to make the next manufacturing run much larger?
My kids school has a "chocolate table", at their fair, you pay a pound and win chocolate, it sells out really quickly. Why don't they procure enough chocolate to meet the high demand?
Or, other are asking "why don't they price out the poor kids - there enough to seek only to the rich kids at a higher price?".
AFAIK it's not the RPi foundation's policy that RPi are unhealthy or that they should be kept out of the hands of children.
So I don't understand what you're trying to say with your analogy?
The fact that they haven't strongly implies that they are selling it at a loss.
Don't take this too harshly, but the Raspberry Pi foundation's goal is to encourage young children to learn about programming and computer science, not to subsidize the IoT hobbies of wealthy adults who already have careers in computing.
There have been campaigns to get RPis into schools for free, but for the most part, they gather dust there.
Whatever their original goal, they might as well embrace their only successful market and stop using 'it wasn't meant for you' as an excuse for every engineering mistake they make.
The RPF's work is better in that it's both cheaper and a more joined up plan with both kit and teacher resources. A big part of their work is running courses for teachers but training people takes time. That goal is expectedly still ongoing. The code club stuff they do seems pretty successful too. I have no doubt they will continue what they are doing and I think it's the correct strategy.
There are plenty of other SBCs out there now (in response to RPi) which can embrace the consumer market as you desire. It sounds like you are looking for something that meets everyone's requirements; a product that makes no compromises in features or cost. I wish you luck.
But I do understand why the lower spec, lower price point devices appeal so much to hobbyists and makers. These people actually buy and use RPis in significant numbers, unlike the schoolchildren whom they keep aiming at and failing to reach. These people are the only reason for the RPi's success.
The RPi folks would be better to acknowledge and take credit for the important part they've been playing in the maker and hobbyist movement and plan their future devices on that basis.
Interestingly, they also felt the microbit had been much more successful and accessible, so I guess it's not a lost cause to create a product for that market.
But it's interesting the microbit was considered more successful in your group. Perhaps having the name of the BBC behind it gave it more weight. Or the fact they gave them away free to younger children.
Yeah that's what I said?
Those risks are worth it, perhaps, to achieve higher profit. But if the risks are merely to satisfy some demand for cheap gadgets, rather than meeting the educational aims of your org, then "there's more to life, let someone else do that".
"Asinine" means "extremely stupid or foolish", and it's a very harsh term. Are you sure it's the word you were looking for?
Edit: oops, just checked and the Zero W is indeed on sale for $5. I think this is a recent MC discount though, and the official price is $10, which is still reasonable. It also puts the $15/ea for 2-5 units in a better perspective.
How are you able to build these with Pi Zero?
It would be fine if you were allowed to buy more than one, because then the cost of shipping per unit would be negligible, but you're not, you can only buy one.
So it's totally fair to include the shipping cost, because there's no alternative.
Now there's one!
Do they not want to?
Why can't you just pay $15 for them?
Considering how many others are saying what you're saying, I'm sorry, but I'm not going to share what store I'm referring to.
High-demand cars often sell for well over sticker price. A few recent examples are the Civic Type R, the Focus RS when it was 1-3 years old, the BRZ when it came out... Demand is higher than supply, and vendors (car dealers in my car reference) are profiting from that.
I understand your outrage, but the fact that multiple vendors are selling at this high price means that the market is saying the product is worth it. If you choose the perspective that the Zero is a $15 board which you can occasionally buy for $5, you can be free from spite and simply decide if you want one. Ten bucks and a slightly different perspective is a small price for tinkering and being free from anguish!
>1 at $5.00 each
>2-5 at $14.99 each
>6+ at $19.99 each
(Although looking at that now, the cheapest board is still about $9)
I'm not saying that to downplay the RPI - the community it has around it is great, but long gone are the days of trying to get Linux running on a random arm board. And I should know, I have over 100 different arm machines at my place.
Any build that doesn't start with a multimeter, a soldering iron and a TTL->USB cable is pretty straightforward...
(A wee pang of nostagia there when I saw it mentioned)
Happy days :)
How would you go about doing that? Any guides out there for something like this?
I get the limitations on manufacturing, costs, margins, etc. But they could just advertise it for 10E, sell it for 10E and actually make a profit that they can use to improve the product, drop prices later, etc. If I end up paying 10E anyway I'd prefer it if the ad didn't tout "Only $5". It's misleading no matter how much I like the company who's doing it.
edit: found the announcement: https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/raspberry-pi-zero-w-joins-f...
But this means the original Zero was marketed at $5 which was still never the case where I live (10-20E was/is the norm, maybe courtesy of the shortage). This being said I bought them either way. It just felt a bit disappointing when the expectations set by the promotional material weren't met when ordering the product.
Now imagine a fixed configuration car being sold at double the price. Car ads usually have a fineprint “config used in the ad includes bla and bla and costs this much”.
Where it is like the car industry is when they advertise fuel consumption or emissions numbers that are never achievable in real life. And in that case I feel the same.
People who complain about the cost making their projects difficult should speak up about the alternatives they’re jumping to instead.
So, until they backtrack and apologize for their disgusting anti-consumer behavior, there's no way I will buy or endorse their products in any way. There's plenty of highly competitive alternatives and absolutely no need to buy from these crooks.
There is nothing that prevents you from connecting other CSI cameras (there are plenty available), or writing other drivers. It's just that the auto-tuning functions of the original drivers will only be enabled for original cameras. The driver authenticates the camera(s) at startup, and if they are not the original ones, disables the auto-tuning.
The Foundation says it is a way of securing a revenue stream and recovering some of the cost of R&D work that went into the drivers. I can see how that is a compromise that could be chosen.
Personally, while I am not a fan of locked-down solutions, I find it hard to get as outraged at this as some other people apparently are.
That's not nice, or is it now?
But these kinds of shenanigans and playing the artificial scarcity game with the RPi0/0w made a very convincing argument to go elsewhere for project SBCs, if the horrible bcm283 wasn't reason enough.
Fortunately, for a little more money, you can get far nicer boards that run fine with mainline kernels and without binary-only boot loaders, e.g. the current crop of RK3399 boards which even have 4GB RAM, USB3 and NVMe interfaces.
The look and feel is very Apple store so that probably is the fairest comparison - but they’ve managed to retain the good bits without it feeling like the chaotic jumble sale that Apple Store’s have become.
Dotted around the store are live demo machines showing Python code running on Pis powering sensors etc, and tutorials showing you how to run it etc.
Was really interesting and heartening to see the number of young 11/12yos in there, boys and girls, either experimenting with the Pis or playing Minecraft etc.
¹ I’m aware that Apple Stores also offer courses but as far as I understand these are more along the lines of “Here’s how to send emails” rather than “You’ll learn something cool about computers”. Both have their place, but they’re quite different in spirit.
It's an almost worthy successor to Maplin/RadioShack.
I personally think the comparison is silly. Because you get to play around in the Pi store I think it’s much more similar to a games-workshop or board game store than an Apple store. Even if the aesthetics are similar to the latter.
Incorrect - it's not damning with fake praise - it's damning with super-light praise; the implication being the subject of 'praise' is not that great.
They could have spun it many other ways. Raspberry Pi's first physical store. You can see examples of what the Pi can do, even play around with them. Consult with staff about which Pi is best suited for your needs. Buy merch and goodies.
Again, the article itself makes no comparison to anything
"Bitch that phrase don't make no sense why can't fruit be compared!?"
Also, why the couch? Unless there are some coding camps at the location, I can't imagine someone (even a parent) coming in and needing to sit down. Maybe an experienced sales associate that maps out the types of activities that can be done, but I doubt that as well.
Arguably it could be cooler than both. You’re making an arbitrary distinction where one isn’t needed. Plus we never even had RadioShack in the UK (maybe Maplins might have been more apt? But I think the Apple comparison serves the authors point quite fine).
> Also, why the couch?
Plenty of shops in the UK have seating. It isn’t that weird at all.
> Because this headline demands a cynical response
No, it really doesn’t. You just chose to be negative for your own personal reasons.
We did kind of.
Tandy was basically RadioShack, they even sold RadioShack branded products.
I would like to say that it rebranded as RadioShack towards the end, but I cant find any evidence of that. So that's probably just my failing memory.
Many of them became Carphone Warehouse circa 2000 . By 2001 the brand had been killed off. My last memory of Tandy was buying a RadioShack 14in TV. It didn't disappoint: it came with the schematic.
But, I definitely remember seeing a shop with RadioShack written on it in Boston, Lincolnshire around 2004 – and that was a town that I don't think ever had a Tandy. I never checked it out as my component needs were satisfied by an independent electronics shop in Lincoln.
I'm speculating that, after Tandy went, independent distributors of RadioShack products sprung up. There does appear to be a shop in Lancashire using the RadioShack logo. Though unless they've got incredible warehousing, they can't sell much RadioShack stuff any more.
I can't remember what it was called. But I had a friend who worked there many years ago.
> The name is an abbreviation of Tandy/Radio Shack, Z-80 microprocessor.
at my first job the electronics shop had a standing account so if you needed anything electronic you just got it added to that's weeks order
It was the place to buy a pack of 3 resistors, or 2 spade connectors or fuses for your car for 10 to 50 times a reasonable price. It was an OK place to buy books though, as we still had the net book agreement so UK books had the price pre-printed. The US Radio Shack branded books they carried were much more expensive, and always shrink wrapped.
Maplins when they arrived were super cheap by comparison. RS and Farnell had minimum orders and needed a business account.
I love shops with couches or comfy chairs. And every shopping mall should have them, spread around. If I can't sit down now and then I don't stay there for very long - I need to get out of there. Another poster mentioned that he never shopped together with his SO - he goes to his shops, she goes to her shops. That's fine when you're in your own town. That doesn't work so well when you're visitors to an unfamiliar city.
And I hope to go to Cambridge reasonably soon. With my wife.
These are the changing room chairs for the other half.
I noticed that they bought the Hackspace!
They also did a nice GW branded bitter
I can certainly understand why someone might shop with an SO, but it's never been a requirement for us.
(This is a therapy session right?)
Using a RasPi is in that middle ground of intellectual disrepute where hobbyists teach each other and have lots of fun. It's what you do after school.
(Many people opted in because it gave you a chance to be lectured by Steve Furber and later work with him on 3rd year projects, IIRC.)
Was doing CS, but plenty of hardware topics were available, such as creating your own processor on an FPGA, etc.
How can you possibly write good software without an appreciation of hardware??
Do they have a LM7812? And a LM117Z for a fan? Do they have a NTC 100K with a beta of 3950? I'll also need a 40x40x20 fan at 24V, 3 pin. Plus some DIN562 M3 nuts, but it needs to be stainless steel.
And I expect no to pay more than $10 for all of that.
Are you American? Do your stores not have seating?
Such a headline would probably be misinterpreted as criticism.
Jokes aside, in my opinion, this sort of music while twee and forgettable is appealing enough to not leave a bad taste in the mouth about the whole advert. Especially when the subject matter has to be seen as approachable to a wide audience of people across age boundaries.
I genuinely think it’s a great idea but retail is dying on its arse here and that is way too niche.
I worry a bit about the SD cards (especially with the zero, which is really being overworked), but overall I haven't really had any issues.
It has worked reliably for a few years with the clothes peg though!
Staffing a shop with skilled EEs could get expensive fast.
Ps I hadn't come across today at Apple before, so checked the website. There were only 2 beards there, both well trimmed, and no plaid. Apple has called peak hipster!