Akio Toyoda claims to be a “car guy” but after the massive disappointment of the FR-S and Scion in general it is clear he’s entirely clueless.
Toyota is a disappointing shell of itself, this car is another example in a long line of soulless non-Toyota letdowns.
This Supra is an abomination. They go on about how it's "for the fans", which just rubs it in even worse. If they'd just made a bigger 86 with a turbo V6 I would've put money down the minute they took preorders. Instead I'm just upset that they absolutely destroyed the name of one of the most iconic cars of my generation by outsourcing it to BMW and whitelabeling a boring overpriced midlife crisis car.
Every single Toyota car nut I know is insulted, and you just have to look at ANY car forum to see how badly this entire thing is being received.
For most people, a car is the second biggest possession in their life after a house. For many it's THE biggest possession. It's not unfair for people to be attached to brands they've grown up with, and cars they've worked their asses off and poured literally blood sweat and tears into.
Look how upset people are over a missing headphone jack. Now imagine if the iPhone 11 was a rebadged Android phone made entirely by Samsung with an Apple sticker on the back, not even running iOS.
Toyota really screwed this one.
I don't know, it's fairly well received on Reddit, and I personally like it even though I'm a big fan of the A80 Supra. Let's be honest, enthusiasts are never happy about anything, they all want something that's 500hp that also weights 2000lbs and comes straight from the factory with the price of a 3 years old used Miata.
Is this the same type of car as the A80 Supra? Of course not, but all signs pointing toward it being a quite promising sports car, and all the early reviews are quite positives as well.
The kind of people who make the loudest noise on the forums aren't the type who would be putting money down buying a new $80k GT-R caliber Supra anyway.
For $50k starting price, you get a good looking 2 seater that's relatively light, agile, 4.1s 0-60 and very nicely equipped with the latest BMW cabin tech and Toyota styling, I think this thing will sell like hotcakes.
The Z4 is a convertible that costs $15k more. The people who complain the loudest about this car are the ones who don't buy new sports cars.
I've actually never heard anyone in New Zealand (where they're also very popular, as the Toyota 86) complain about it being a "Subaru".
I think that badge engineering (i.e. putting a Toyota badge on a Subaru or a BMW) isn't looked down upon so much over here, as it's been commonplace for decades.
How can the subaru BRZ be a fantastic car, when the toyota scion is not?
Scion was a failed marketing ploy that betrays Toyota’s deep misunderstanding of the youth market.
Sports cars are just a marketing tool.
Toyota makes their money selling the Hilux and the Corolla, not the 86 or the Supra. And the Hilux and Corolla are as good as ever (well, nothing will ever beat the 90's Hiluxes)
So, while they might be pissing off the niche enthusiast community, they're still winning for people who want an affordable, dependable car, which is most people.
That said it is a bit disappointing.
It’s not a halo car because none of it is Toyota. At least when you buy a Chevy Bolt you can tell yourself it’s from the same people who make the Corvette. This is just a rebranded BMW. It’s like Toyota is rubbing in the fact they only make bland toasters.
How is it an objectively bad car? Have you driven it? All the early impressions are quite positive and you can argue however you want it not being a Supra (it's also much cheaper than the old A80), but you literally cannot call it objectively bad without actually mentioning why.
It looks good inside out, is priced reasonably, seems to have a good chassis tuning and is fairly quick with a great engine, so what's wrong with it?
You could argue that if they took literally any other course than the one that they have they would be worse of than they currently are...even if their actions don't meet your specific desires.
Please don't get me wrong, I wish Toyota were making the cars you want, but they are doing quite well and lots of people are happy to be Toyota customers...maybe just not people like you.
Now they are just building appliances. This is what I’m getting at. The soul they lost was the ability to make a sports/halo car that is even remotely compelling.
From a business perspective that makes total sense. But it doesn’t excite anybody and that’s what makes them a shell of their former glory.
I don't know much about the new engine but I'm assuming this won't be possible here?
I think Toyota and BMW are nuts to think this model will draw any 718 Cayman buyers. Who is seriously going to pass on the Porsche PDK (or manual transmission) and mid-rear engine for a front engine and torque converter?
It's nice that Toyota is trying, yet baffling that they came up with some sort of "German fixed-roof autobox Miata" to do it.
So I've driven many versions of the ZF8, honestly even though it's not Porsche PDK, it's still very capable and I prefer the newer ones to the DCT in my F80 M3. Hell, even the new M5 uses the ZF8 transmission now and dumped the DCT.
sheepishly raises hand.
I mean, it's quicker than a base model 718 while being much better equipped and is about half the price of a equally equipped 718S. If money is no objection whatsoever then sure, 718 all the way, but unfortunately that's not the case for most people, even sports car buyers.
Objectively this car is fine but it’s not a Toyota in any way.
Jesus the EV crusaders are annoying. Thank god this car isn't an EV or hybrid, and I say that as a Model 3 owner.
>I struggle to understand why this vehicle is relevant other than perhaps as a symbol of the ICE sportscar nadir.
Obviously you struggle to understand a market that you have neither appreciation nor understanding of. Hint hint: people buy sports cars to have fun in their own ways, and currently there are no hybrid/EVs that's light and agile enough to be called a true sports car.
I predict a short run.
Edit: Others are correctly pointing out that the BRZ/86 twins sell well, but these are small cars, not bigger semi-luxury couples ala the BMW 8.
It's at heart a BMW, but saying there is nothing Toyota is quite an exaggeration.
It has no soul of a Toyota. It’s just a base trim level of a BMW with different financing options and a different support network.
By the way, if I’m buying a BMW why would I want Toyota of all companies to modify the steering and suspension? I’d rather have a Toyota with BMW steering and suspension, not this abomination.
“I like my 3 series but I wish it handled more like a Camry” - nobody, ever.
I drive a F80 M3 right now, and I very much would love to see how this car drives since I love, love the GT86 suspension/steering tuning. In fact the GT86 has better steering than my M3, so if this Supra is like that it would be very attractive to me.
If anything, a car with BMW drivetrain and Toyota motorsport's chassis/suspension/steering is exactly what a lot of people would want these days, since BMW has a big lead in engine tech (especially turbo 6) and Toyota did such a spectacular job with GT-86's chassis/suspension/steering. Hell, if BMW supplied their turbo 4 cylinder to the GT86 imagine the success it would have had.
Ford and Volkswagen are working on a vehicle co-development deal (scope unannounced, but rumored to be very big).
GM and Honda are working together on self-driving tech and hydrogen fuel cells.
The future of the auto industry is very very expensive, but it should prove to be interesting as well.
If I got a Toyota sports car today, it would be the 86 with an aftermarket turbo or supercharger. With 100hp boost, it would reach about a 1:8.8 power to weight ratio, compared to the Supra's about 1:10. Cost: about $30K.
Nothing beats MKIV in looks.
> the BMW version of this BMW engine makes 382 horsepower, while the Toyota-tuned version produces only 335 horses.
> Toyota is slapping a $50,920 starting price on the Supra, while the Z4 with the equivalent I6 starts at $64,695.
> BMW always lets folks option its cars up to the gills, and Toyota is offering a Premium grade and Launch Edition at the start itself. Even with the special Launch Edition, the Supra is still less, though, at $56,180. The four-cylinder Z4 is the Supra's price equivalent right now, each starting at just over $50,000.
All modern Toyotas are revolting. The new Prius is offensive to look at.