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You can say anything you want about the EU, but it's perfectly functioning and always has been.





> it's perfectly functioning and always has been.

The EU is far from "perfectly functioning". It functions pretty well but it's not perfect. There's some non-negligible group in pretty much every country that rightfully has some major gripe with the EU. If there wasn't we wouldn't have things like Brexit. I get that you can't please everyone but if the UK GTFOing isn't indicative of some sort of imperfection than I don't know what is.


Brexit has nothing to do with the functioning of the EU, it’s a byproduct of a broken political culture. British politicians failed at their jobs for 20 years and then blamed others for it, simple as that. The EU could have been the most enlightened organisation on the planet, and the result would have been precisely the same.

"but it's perfectly functioning and always has been."

This is so deeply wrong it's offensive.

coldtea 8 days ago [flagged]

"Perfectly functioning and always has been"? That is beyond delusion.

The EU is co-ruled by an opaque system of non elected bodies, under the table deals, and backroom diplomacy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_deficit_in_the_Euro...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/09/brexit...

https://www.economist.com/special-report/2017/03/23/how-to-a...

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1007/S12290-012-021...

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/30/opinion/the-euros-democra...

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/11/i-was-teenage-...

https://www.yanisvaroufakis.eu/books/adults-in-the-room/

And those are mostly official establishment narratives -- if you look at critiques from the left (and libertatians) the picture is much much bleaker.


> The EU is co-ruled by an opaque system of non elected bodies

The EU council (comprising of democratically elected heads of government from the 28 member countries)

The EU parliament (comprising of directly elected MEPs from the 28 member countries)

The EU commission president, nominated by the council, approved by the parliament, and standing on a ticket to be EU Commission president during the parliamentary elections

The EU commissioners, appointed by the democratically elected heads of government from the 28 members

Laws are only passed by agreement by the democratically elected council and the democratically elected MEPs.


That's the version told to high schoolers in "How the EU works" lessons.

In actual EU, decisions are made by informal bodies like the Eurogroup, meeting under close quarters and with no documentation, with economic and diplomatic pressure from top dog countries, with satellite states vote how their sugar daddy states ask them, and a whole lot more besides.


"Eurogroup", which (like the Economic and Financial Affairs Council) would be meetings between the democratically elected finance ministers of the countries in the EU?

That's funny.

Representative democracy, with it's paltry accountability except every 4 years, gerrymandering-schemes (not a US-only problem), typically revoked election promises, backroom talks, corruption, and private interests paying politicians is already undemocratic enough as it stands.

And suddenly removing the voters even further (as in the EU Commission), or adding "bodies" with no officially defined role and protocol, and closed discussions, like the Eurogroup, is "democratic" because those involved were "democratically elected finance ministers" under unrelated to the EU national elections.


I'm struggling to see your problem. Are you saying that the EU should have more power over constituent member countries?

Do you really think that it would happen any differently, without the EU? There simply would be international treaties, which are even more opaquely-discussed, with no democratic oversight whatsoever and no recourse (national justice courts typically have no jurisdiction over international agreements).

With the EU, the process is formalized, opened up for scrutiny at many levels (sure, they could be more, there are people working on that problem), and then everyone can have a say through the European Court of Justice process.

The fact of the matter is that we live in an increasingly globalized world, and we must find ways to live together without resorting to the traditional genocidal ways (which are now practically unsustainable - a serious war on the continent would produce hundreds of millions of casualties). Somewhere, the political sausage-making has to happen.


> The EU is co-ruled by an opaque system of non elected bodies, under the table deals, and backroom diplomacy.

So just like any other democracy in the world. Do you really believe things are different in the House of Commons or the senate?


No, but I really believe those at least represent the public and private interests of their own country, not some big-dog country to the detriment of the periphery...



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