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Tree Style Tabs (addons.mozilla.org)
455 points by gamma-male 3 months ago | hide | past | web | favorite | 192 comments

I use TST extensively to manage hundreds of tabs, and it is a real joy. FWIW, these are the customizations that made TST much more usable for me:

1) Very importantly, hide the horizontal tab bar. You get some vertical screen space back, and you aren't distracted by two ways of showing the same tabs. You'll have to edit your userChrome.css (see e.g. http://kb.mozillazine.org/index.php?title=UserChrome.css&pri... for details on how to find it), and add something like this:

  /* Hide tab bar in FF Quantum */
  @-moz-document url("chrome://browser/content/browser.xul") {
    #TabsToolbar {
      visibility: collapse !important;
      margin-bottom: 21px !important;

    #sidebar-box[sidebarcommand="treestyletab_piro_sakura_ne_jp-sidebar-action"] #sidebar-header {
      visibility: collapse !important;
There are a few variations; this is the one that works well for me on Mac. The second block also hides the sidebar title for TST, which saves space in the tab bar.

2) I customize the tabs themselves to make them more compact, thus letting me see more tabs. This CSS can be placed in the TST addon preferences under the "Advanced" section.

  /* Compact tab layout */
  :root { --tab-height: 20px !important; }
  .tab { height: 20px !important; }
  /* Shrink space between pinned tabs and tab bar, only when pins are present */
  #tabbar[style*="margin"] { margin-top: 20px !important; }

  /* Show title of unread tabs with red font */
  .tab.unread .label {
    color: red !important;

  /* Add private browsing indicator per tab */
  .tab.private-browsing .label:before {
    content: " ";
I highly recommend this addon, and it's a major differentiator for me between Firefox and Chrome.

Another useful tweak is to turn on the option that forces all popups into tabs rather than new windows. This is an option in FireFox itself but it complements TST quite nicely, because it means that the popup's tab appears underneath it's parent's tab in the tree. Popping up in a separate window with no tab at all is pretty much the opposite of that!

This is a nice option to turn on anyway. IMO there is no reason why a webpage should ever be able to open another window on my computer. For me, this is the other killer feature in FireFox. This also stops pages being able to resize/move windows (because that only works in popup windows), which stops the worse aspect of "the annoying site" which came up recently on Hacker News.

To change the setting: in about:config change browser.link.open_newwindow.restriction to 0. Source: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1066799

Thanks for these tips. If you don't mind, can you please write these down in the add-on's Review itself so that it's easy for us to find them every time we install it (and may be so that it inspires the add-on author to implement these features himself?)

Thank you for providing this detail, I used to use tree tabs before the webextensions fiasco but hadn't gone back to it yet as I wasn't aware it was possible to hide the existing tab bar. I'll definitely give it another shot now thanks to your help!

The last time I tried TST, it was fairly hostile to my battery on macOS; is that still a problem?

Sidebar tabs are a massive workflow upgrade, it surprises me that it's not a core browser feature, especially now with the ridiculous proliferation of those loathsome vertical-space hostile sticky elements that have spread through the web like a plague.

If by "last time" you mean the pre-WebExtension version - yes, that version was rather CPU intensive and I used a different extension (no longer maintained post-WebExtension) back then.

I haven't seen any negative performance impact as far as battery or CPU usage are concerned, but as usual YMMV.

I just gave it another try. Unfortunately, things haven't improved. `about:performance` shows a "medium" energy impact for TST. My 2015 Macbook's fans come on and stay on until I disable TST again, after which they reliably spool back down after a short delay. While TST is enabled, Firefox shoots up the list of CPU users in Activity Monitor.

Oh well, it was worth a shot, sidebar tabs are just so good when they're working well, but it's not worth the battery drain.

Your userChrome.css tweaks worked great!

As another point of data, with FF Nightly on macOS 10.14/2018 MBP and ~10 tabs, I see no fan activity and low-to-none energy impact.

Different OS (Linux, FF 64), but I was curious to know the impact here. TST has no discernible impact.

I'm using a bunch of other extensions and customisations, so I guess there's some dodgy interaction going on somewhere. No time to go spelunking though. I'll just use it on my desktop instead, where I won't notice the load.

Its weird that Firefox cant provide a single button in the preferences to remove the horizontal tab bar.

It's part of their new philosophy not to make anything configurable or anything "advanced" easy, unless you're jumping through some hoops.

I still can't get over the fact that they removed the ability to view individual cookies and their values from the browser.

No, it's part of the philosophy that this particular feature led to users suddenly being without tab bar and basically having a broken browser. Although I do believe they're still weighing that against the benefits of being able to use TST without needing to go through extra hoops.

You can still view individual cookies and their values: open the dev tools, then the Storage tab.

The obvious solution would be to have a config preference that the Tree Style Tabs extensions could toggle, but not expose it in the UI...

I should clarify that "users suddenly being without a tab bar" might not necessarily be the result of those users disabling it themselves. It might be that they install an extension like TST that doesn't restore the tab bar after it's removed, or something even less obvious.

> feature led to users suddenly being without tab bar and basically having a broken browser

That's a stupid reason if thats what they care about. Just make it part of the about:config at least if you are so worried about "dumb users".

It's not so much the users they care about but the fact they have to deal with all the support requests, plus the complaining on social media that Firefox is dumb and bad. At some point it's net-negative for the project. So sometimes they open functionality to extensions instead of having it easily available to users, like the option to disable JavaScript on pages.

I should clarify that "users suddenly being without a tab bar" might not necessarily be the result of those users disabling it themselves. It might be that they install an extension like TST that doesn't restore the tab bar after it's removed, or something even less obvious.

> they removed the ability to view individual cookies and their values from the browser

Moved, not removed. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Tools/Storage_Inspe...

If it is only available in the Developer Toolbox then it has been removed as far as end users are concerned.

End users are not supposed to be poking around in developer tools.

I don't know what sort of "end user" you expect to be poking around in cookie contents. The developer tools storage inspector always provided a much better user interface for doing so, and also exposes localStorage and IndexedDB data. I don't see why anybody interested in this sort of thing would have used the previous interface anyway.

Right click, press q, click storage/cookies.. what am I missing here?


access dev tools (on Linux†) using: Ctrl+Shift+i then navigate to: storage > cookies

† no idea what it is on a Mac

I'm able to just use F12 on Ubuntu.

Oh! Same here… Thanks!

I've been trying to wrangle the top bar into something manageable for a while, and have landed on this:


The one thing to watch out for is that Firefox has been changing the structure of their browser chrome recently, and while it has actually gotten easier to style (the three MacOS buttons are now just html elements!) it requires some occasional maintenance to keep up.

thanks a lot!

Thanks so much for this. It feels like I've got some of the browser back. I avoid using tabs, I have them mostly disabled by default. This frees up the screen space taken away many years ago. This bit of chrome gives me the equivilent of the missing menu item: View > Toolbars > Hide Tab Bar


  @namespace url("http://www.mozilla.org/keymaster/gatekeeper/there.is.only.xul"); /* set default namespace to XUL */

  /* https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18836189 */
  /* Hide tab bar in FF Quantum */
  @-moz-document url("chrome://browser/content/browser.xul") {
    #TabsToolbar {
      visibility: collapse !important;
      margin-bottom: 21px !important;

    #sidebar-box[sidebarcommand="treestyletab_piro_sakura_ne_jp-sidebar-action"] #sidebar-header {
      visibility: collapse !important;

I really wouldn't do this. The add-on bugs out for me fairly regularly and doesn't let me interact with the tabs (like closing them). Still, I can't imagine using a browser without vertical tabs ever again.

This happens to me too. TST seems to currently be riddled with all kinds of unusual bugs that only crop up occasionally. Workarounds: Sometimes keyboard shortcuts still work when mouse interaction doesn't. Other times closing then opening the side panel again causes TST to stabilize it's state.

I'm kind of curious what browser and OS version you and the other user are running.

I'm running Firefox Nightly, which is version 66 at this point with tree style tabs 2.7.9 on auto update on linux 4.19 with intel/nvidia gpu drivers. I've never seen any issues just tree style tabs but note I only have 5 extensions at this point.

I was wondering if it was an issue with a particular platform or interaction between multiple extensions particularly if you are using the pre quantum version.

Firefox 64, MacOS 10.14

I've noticed bugs such as the new tab button stops working (command-t still works though), child tabs not being promoted to top-level tabs when their parent is closed and a few other strange cases of tree state corruption. Particularly it sometimes happens when dragging tabs around to reparent them, although I haven't been able to nail down any concrete rhyme or reason to it. My other extensions are umatrix, ublock origin and tampermonkey, I don't think there is any strange extension interaction going on.

Despite all of this, TST is still too useful to not use.

I'm kind of curious if the other user also uses mac and its an issue that firefox needs better mac support. I recall in a similar thread on hacker news others recounting having had a bad experience with firefox on mac.

Have you tried submitting a bug report to the author of TST maybe they don't have a mac and could use more feedback.

Linux on the newest kernel with Intel and Windows 10. Nightly and stable Firefox.

I'm kind of curious what browser and OS version you and the other user are running.

I'm running Firefox Nightly, which is version 66 at this point with tree style tabs 2.7.9 on auto update on linux 4.19 with intel/nvidia gpu drivers. I've never seen any issues just tree style tabs but note I only have 5 extensions at this point.

I was wondering if it was an issue with a particular platform or interaction between multiple extensions particularly if you are using the pre quantum version.

I created a userChrome.css file (including the aforementioned snippets + the namespace line on top) and put it into the folder that Firefox tells me is my profile folder - still see the tabs on top though (Mac OS Mojave - FF - Quantum) - any ideas what could be the issue? I did restart firefox.

It needs to go into the "chrome" subdirectory of your profile directory. Usually this doesn't exist so you'll have to create it yourself.

thanks that helped! the RYG buttons of Mac now overlap with back reload etc - but I guess I can tweak the CSS to make that fit.

Thanks again!

Use this CSS

  #nav-bar-customization-target {
     padding-left: 65px;

I had an issue with the coloration on top of that, so I elected to turn the regular system title bar back on. That perfected it for me.

how did you do that?

Right click on the navigation area and choose "Customize..." In the bottom left is a checkbox labeled "Title Bar"

I was having problems with most userChrome.css I found on FF Dev Edition on Mac OS.

Eventually found this repo with some pretty good ones: https://github.com/Timvde/UserChrome-Tweaks/tree/master/tabs

Here's what I've got: https://gist.github.com/tiagoad/c85f9752033b1d78d23c5bae7373...

I wonder if anyone might have a hint on how I could create a certain behavior for TST.

Generally, I want the TST sidebar to be full width (~250 px) so I can read all the open tabs at once. But when I have several windows open on my screen, the TST bar can take up too much of the window and reduces usability. I'd like to have the TST sidebar to auto-collapse (so it expands on mouse-over) when the firefox window is less than (say) 500 px wide/50% of the screen width.

Pair https://www.reddit.com/r/FirefoxCSS/comments/7emhsq/my_compa... with `@media (max-width: 500px) { … }` wrapping around the shrinking behaviour.

I always feel this should be included in Firefox default settings. Vertical space is an asset on modern monitors especially on laptop, this extension is the reason Firefox is the default browser on my machines

Maybe there's a need for "distros" for web browser and editors (like VScode or Sublime).

With both of these at least I'm having the same kind of problem. There are lots of killer extensions and tweaks that make them really good but finding and implementing those takes effort.

I believe there might be a market for opinionated distributions which would ship with good extensions and sensible default settings for specific use cases. Maybe this could be even something that generates some subscription money. From the Eclipse/Java side one example is MyEclipse [1]. IIRC they started with selling the Eclipse IDE with a pre-selected bundle of open source plugins. Value proposal was that this would save you the trouble of looking for the best in plugins and checking compatible versions.

[1] https://www.genuitec.com/products/myeclipse/

I have no idea why Mozilla is ignoring this extension. This is definitely something that should be a core feature.

They did a «pilot» experiment recently but apparently decided it’s not important enough. That code is available as another extension (don’t recall the name, perhaps tabcenter).

They should get their priorities right. Their test was really bad compared to TST

They are busy putting ads in your browser and siphoning your data to ad companies.

As far as I can tell, this add-on doesn't let you hide the top tab bar.

Which is my main gripe with it. Does TST do that now?

No, extensions cannot do that for now - you have to manually edit your userChrome.css.

That's how I implemented tabbed windows in 1988 for the NeWS window system and UniPress Emacs (aka Gosling Emacs aka Evil Software Hoarder Emacs), which supported multiple windows on NeWS and X11 long before Gnu Emacs did.

That seemed to me like the most obvious way to do it at the time, since tabs along the top of bottom edges were extremely wasteful of screen space. (That was on a big hires Sun workstation screen, not a tiny little lores Mac display, so you could open a lot more windows, especially with Emacs.)

It makes them more like a vertical linear menu of opened windows, so you can real all their titles, fit many of them on the screen at once, and you instantly access any one and can pop up pie menus on the tabs to perform window management commands even if the windows themselves are not visible.




>Since storyboards are text files, they can be created and edited in any text editor as well as be manipulated by UNIX facilities (spelling checkers, sort, grep, etc...). On our SUN version Unipress Emacs provides a multiple windows, menus and programming environment to author a database. Graphics tools are launched from Emacs to create or edit the graphic components and target tools are available to mark the shape of each selectable graphic element. The authoring tool checks the links and verifies the syntax of the article markup. It also allows the author to preview the database by easily following links from Emacs buffer to buffer. Author and browser can also be run concurrently for final editing. [...]

>The more recent NeWS version of Hyperties on the SUN workstation uses two large windows that partition the screen vertically. Each window can have links and users can decide whether to put the destination article on top of the current window or on the other window. The pie menus made it rapid and easy to permit such a selection. When users click on a selectable target a pie menu appears (Figure 1) and allows users to specify in which window the destination article should be displayed (practically users merely click then move the mouse in direction of the desire window) . This strategy is easy to explain to visitors and satisfying to use. An early pilot test with four subjects was run, but the appeal of this strategy is very strong and we have not conducted more rigorous usability tests.

Using pie menus gesturally with "mouse-ahead display pre-emption" was a lot like of "swiping" on an iPad. And window managers tend to have directional commands: open on left or right side, resize from bottom right corner, move to top or bottom layer, etc, which correspond nicely to pie menu directions, so they're obvious, easy to learn, remember, and use without looking or waiting.

>In the author tool, we employ a more elaborate window strategy to manage the 15-25 articles that an author may want to keep close at hand. We assume that authors on the SUN/Hyperties will be quite knowledgeable in UNIX and Emacs and therefore would be eager to have a richer set of window management features, even if the perceptual, cognitive, and motor load were greater. Tab windows have their title bars extending to the right of the window, instead of at the top. When even 15 or 20 windows are open, the tabs may still all be visible for reference or selection, even thought the contents of the windows are obscured. This is a convenient strategy for many authoring tasks, and it may be effective in other applications as well.

I regularly used Emacs with tab windows and pie menus for software development and hypermedia authoring, and found them useful enough that I thought all NeWS applications should have them. So I implemented them as a globally shared extension to the NeWS window manager, independent of Emacs, so all NeWS applications got tabbed windows with pie menus. (NeWS was a lot like Smalltalk in that you could dynamically customize and extend the entire system like that.)

My later versions of tabbed windows with pie menus for NeWS in 1990 let you drag the tab around to any position along any edge you wanted. And they had pie menus designed to make window management quick and easy and very gestural, supporting "mouse ahead display pre-emption" and previewing and highlighting in the overlay plane (which was much faster to draw interactively than moving and resizing the live windows themselves).


I iterated on the idea of tabbed windows and made several different versions over the lifetime of NeWS for its various GUI toolkits (Lite, NDE, TNT):






    % Pie menus and tab windows and NOT patented or restricted, and the
    % interface and algorithms may be freely copied and improved upon. 
At Sun, we even made an X11 ICCCM window manager that wrapped tabbed window with pie menus around nasty old rectangular X-Windows:



Tabs aren't only for top level windows or frames. You can also attach tabs to any side of nested windows, so you can drag them around anywhere freely, then stick them on a "stack" to constrain their movement, so you can drag them up and down to rearrange their order on the stack, and pop them off the stack by dragging them far enough away. The tabs can have pie menus with a standard set of window management commands, as well as a submenu item for content-specific commands, so they're easy to learn (because of their common layout) and also possible to customize (because of their type specific submenu).


>There is a text window onto a NeWS process, a PostScript interpreter with which you can interact (as with an "executive"). PostScript is a stack based language, so the window has a spike sticking up out of it, representing the process's operand stack. Objects on the process's stack are displayed in windows with their tabs pinned on the spike. (See figure 1) You can feed PostScript expressions to the interpreter by typing them with the keyboard, or pointing and clicking at them with the mouse, and the stack display will be dynamically updated to show the results.

>Objects on the PSIBER Space Deck appear in overlapping windows, with labeled tabs sticking out of them. Each object has a label, denoting its type and value, i.e. "integer 42". Each window tab shows the type of the object directly contained in the window. Objects nested within other objects have their type displayed to the left of their value. The labels of executable objects are displayed in italics. [...]

>Tab Windows: The objects on the deck are displayed in windows with labeled tabs sticking out of them, showing the data type of the object. You can move an object around by grabbing its tab with the mouse and dragging it. You can perform direct stack manipulation, pushing it onto stack by dragging its tab onto the spike, and changing its place on the stack by dragging it up and down the spike. It implements a mutant form of “Snap-dragging”, that constrains non-vertical movement when an object is snapped onto the stack, but allows you to pop it off by pulling it far enough away or lifting it off the top. [Bier, Snap-dragging] The menu that pops up over the tab lets you do things to the whole window, like changing view characteristics, moving the tab around, repainting or recomputing the layout, and printing the view.

Here's some more stuff I wrote about tabbed windows in HN:


>Unfortunately most of today's "cargo cult" imitative user interface designs have all "standardized" on the idea that the menu bars all belong at the top of the screen and nowhere else, menus items should layout vertically downward and no other directions, tabs should be rigidly attacked to the top edge and no other edge, and the user can't move them around. But there's no reason it has to be that way.

Now Firefox and Chrome still need decent built-in universally supported and user customizable pie menus, but unfortunately the popup window extension API is inadequate to support them, because there's no way to make them pop up centered on the cursor, or control the popup window shape and transparency. Unfortunately they were only thinking of drop-down linear menus when they designed the API. (Stop thinking inside that damn rectangular box, people!)

But I remain hopeful that somebody will eventually rediscover pie menus in combination with tabbed window for the web browser, and implement them properly (not constrained to pop up inside the browser window and be clipped by the window frame, and not just one gimmicky hard coded menu that user's can't change and developers can't use in their own applications). But the poorly designed browser extension APIs still have a hell of a lot of catching up to do with what it was trivial to do in NeWS for all windows 30 years ago.


>These things used to rub me the wrong way in the 90's, but I've learned to take it in stride. I think it's great that people are rediscovering and trying out old ideas in new systems, and perhaps the understandable belief that something's never been done before isn't so bad, if it motivates them to keep trying out different ideas in new contexts, and leads to even more great stuff that's never been done before, or even just re-implementations of old ideas that aren't as ugly as they used to be the first time around.

>So many "modern" user interfaces are such cargo cult carbon copies of each other (like tabs along just the top edge, or that way "flat" is such a big fad these days), that it's easy to get the impression that anything slightly different is actually original.

>Back in the day, we had no choice but to draw "flat" user interfaces, because all we had was black and white, and moving the cursor across the screen was uphill both ways!

Here's an old todo list from 1987 with some other crazy ideas I (fortunately or not) never got around to implementing in NeWS. The "stack of cards with indexing tabs" would be a generic widget that let you easily flip through and manage an editable stack of things using tabs with pie menus:


What I was getting at was an extensible generalization of tabs, kind of like Scratch's tools that appear around the selected object: customizable widgets that stick out from the edges of rectangular windows, that could be various shapes (like ears or antennae) and do various things (screen snapshot, scrolling, navigation, window management, application commands, etc).

A window could have one main window management title tab (and possibly others) that were always visible, and when it was activated, other auxiliary tabs of various types could open up in the last place you left them. Some could represent iconified sub-windows, like tool pallets or nested sub-windows that you could open up recursively, like an outliner.

You could attach many different kinds of tabs to the edge of a window, move them around, hide and reveal them, and open their property sheets and help screens, etc. And you could plug in new kinds like browser extensions, or interactively script your own and copy and paste them around like a HyperCard window manager. That's how the web browser and window manager should work together seamlessly.

Isn't horizontal space what is excess on laptops? All widescreen these days edit: nevermind. i misread.

You're agreeing with parent

I don’t understand how people browse the web without this extension. That’s the number one reason chrome is not usable for power users. I’m also wondering why this is not natively supported by both firefox and chrome.

I don't know how people live with the mental burden and clutter of dozens of tabs of things they'll (if they were honest with themselves) never get around to reading. It's like watching one of those TV shows about hoarding, where people live in a rabbit warren of junk they claim they'll use one day.

This is true and always alarming to see on someone's monitor but TST makes browsing better even if you don't have hundreds of tabs.

Whenever I'm researching or buying something, having tabs ordered in the parent/child tree makes finding things and going back to listings or indexes much easier and the general experience much more pleasant.

I heard a theory somewhere that the reason people use their smartphones for everything nowadays is because they never used the potential of their laptops/desktops and don't see much difference in usability. Things like TST show you how much more efficient you can be on a real computer.

Certainly alarming to see. Mine build up, I keep them for a few weeks, bookmark a few, and burn the lot periodically - which suggests I shouldn't have bothered with them in the first place.

My bookmarks are dumped in a large pile to be one day sorted out. I have hundreds of them. And rather annoyingly are there now with forgotten context. I can't even access the creation dates on Chrome/ium unless I export and data wrangle.

I have decided I'm just going to write a system where I paste the address/or use a bookmarklet, and insist on small text or context and/or the ability to tag and group. But it must be a simple and cross-browser/system.

The most annoying thing about bookmark managers is presentation.

What vertical tabs allow you to do is forgo tab management all together. With vertical tabs, you never really close a tab, but instead, you keep working on the small subset of tabs you opened most recently. Because they are in a vertical space, even though you have a hundred tabs open, the titles of the 5 or so tabs you are working on are as easily visible as they would be if they were the only open tabs.

OTOH, with horizontal tabs, once you’ve reached a certain number of tabs, they all condense into indistinguishable icons, and even before they have, you can easily only see a couple of the tabs entire titles at a time (on a laptop screen).

So even if you don’t manage tens or hundreds of tabs (although many others do), vertical tabs are still useful because they allow you to never have to think about closing a tab, and still have a great experience with the 5-10 tabs you are interested in at any one point of time.

Firefox doesn't behave as you've described -- I've got 27 tabs opened at the moment (probably the lowest count for months) and only 22 are on-screen, the rest have scrolled off to the left. All have enough context left in them for me to be fairly sure what they are. And if I do want to look at them all, there's a handy drop-down to the right of the tab bar which will show them all in a vertical list. Although I often have enough tabs open to need to scroll that list...

That's Firefox, and while I've got plenty of extensions, none are affecting my tab behaviour.

No, you're right. The comment you're replying to is specific to Chrome. Firefox behaves as you describe, though personally I still strongly prefer TST's behavior; it's a substantial further improvement over Firefox's default setup. Especially when you add in container tabs, and the ability to prefix url bar searches with % <space> to search through your open tabs.

Some people seem to strongly prefer Chrome's behavior. The only advantage I can see is that it forcibly prevents your tab count from getting out of hand.

I found OneTab [1] and Pocket (or similar read-it-later services) to be an efficient way to cope with too many tabs.

OneTab works similar to bookmarks but preserves the date & time they were added. It’s even possible to add a title, i.e. context, to a group of links along with the timestamp. Links can be moved around with drag and drop.

A great improvement to OneTab would be to be TST aware and maintain the tree structure.

Pocket makes reading bookmarks a lot more pleasant and the tagging system helps to preserve some context.

[1] https://addons.mozilla.org/en-GB/firefox/addon/onetab/ (also available for Chrome)

Re: forgotten context

I use Firefox's tag feature for this, helps you give a one or two or three word context like: linux, firewall, iptables or devops, cicd

I do use tags with firefox, but I juggle chromium, opera and other browsers and systems.

They just don't see it as a burden and/or are maybe not too honest with themselves ('yeah but I will read it later'). That being said: there are other uses for TST, can replace bookmarks etc.

Reminds me of desktops cluttered with icons

My desktop is icon free, my tab bar has 27 tabs at present (in the current context; I use "Tab Groups"): I'm buying two different things that need heavy consideration - computing and sports equipment.

Indeed, my desktop has at most 5 icons. Yet everyone I see has a screenful of overlapping items. It seems like chaos.

If I have > 10 tabs open, I feel stressed because it means I'm not actually completing tasks. Anything more than this seems like ADD.

Tomato/tomato. I don’t understand how people browse the web with more than 4 or 5 tabs open at the same time.

You never have more than 5 tabs open at the same time? You’re probably the minority and you probably have learned to do that because the tabs on top put these constraints on you. You would likely browse the web very differently if you had TST. Give it a try.

I also work in this way. I use tabs as my “working memory” for whatever my current project is. Having fewer tabs helps keep me on track working on a single topic. When I’m done with that task, it helps me transition by having closed all the tabs.

When I want to save pages in the long term, I use bookmarks.

It's odd that so many people confuse the roles of tabs and bookmarks.

Perhaps it's a sign that the bookmark UX isn't good (or prevalent) enough.

I generally have four pinned tabs open for email, Slack and Trello, plus another five related to what I'm working on.

People does not confuse roles.

It's just that:

1) What goes to bookmarks rarely goes out.

2) usually I and many other people have a few dozens at least of 'related to what I'm working on'. Like a few documentation pages for this, a few documentation pages for that, ten SO pages, ten blog articles on the same topic linked from SO etc. Plus some tabs unrelated to work, but the ones you absolutetly want to visit later and finish reading or something and don't have the time to put them into something like Things or Bear.

I disagree. It’s the poor history UX that’s the problem. Get rid of tabs altogether and show the history on the left side. Or if you like fuzzy searching, look them up in the extension store.

My history is too messy, I often flit to sites for a couple of seconds and backtrack.

Tabs make lots of sense, windows let me organise them into groups of things I'm currently working on. That's all sensible. Anything I come across that I think might be useful to my future self, I bookmark it. Again, working with the provided functionality. Sensible.

When people have 200 tabs open and can't remember what's where, that's what puzzles me. I've seen people flick through dozens of tabs looking for a piece of documentation they saw yesterday afternoon.

We already have the tools that make browsing and researching efficient. People just need to learn to use them.

I’ve been using an extension that orders tabs by MRU and it has my history baked in. I don’t even use tabs anymore on my text editors as I found that it’s unnecessary if you have fuzzy searching that lists the files in MRU order as suggestions.

The problem with bookmarks for most of us is that users don’t typically manage their bookmarks and delete the links they don’t need.

I'm not confusing anything. Tabs let me switch to different projects incredibly quickly. Bookmarks just don't work.

There were some nice Firefox extensions that supported bookmarking and reloading tab trees. Bookmarking a tree would result in folders, so the whole structure was preserved.

Bookmarks can definitely work, but yeah, a flat list can't. I think a better approach would be something like a mind-map.

Bookmarks have a great ux for it: save all open tabs to a bookmark folder, open all bookmarks in a folder

And then what happens to the trajectory of clicks that I followed to land on the page that was open in the tab ?

Rhetorical question of course. With an open tab I have that information and can go back and forth up the path. Its very useful context to have when I revisit the tab. In my line of work I research many things every day. Firefox open tabs have been a godsend. I literally have 900 to 1200 open at any given time

The browser ought to remember the history of a tab when saving that tab into a bookmark folder (think VM save state).

Photoshop has work flow like this - you can split the undo history into a tree like structure (to a degree, it's not infinite).

+1 indeed

The UX of bookmarks is far less ephemeral than the UX of tabs. I rarely go above 30 or 40 tabs in TST, and those tabs almost never live longer than a day, with one or two exceptions that I use several times a day every day.

Adding and deleting bookmarks at this frequency would be a massive hassle.

I use TST to supplement my working memory. I'm usually working within a particular subtree of all my (way too many) tabs. I probably still have more tabs in such a subtree than most people, but the same idea applies: the subtree keeps my focus on a single topic, and when I finish I can either collapse the subtree (my default) or close it entirely.

What I find invaluable is the super quick ramp-up after context switching, especially if whatever pulled me away turned out to be more work/time than expected.

The minority on HN, maybe. Definitely not to the general public. The general user is almost certainly not using more than 1 tab at any time.

That's a habit. I've been using TST for some time and this "no useless tabs" policy in my brain will not seem to change.

I have about 400-500 open tabs spread between three browsers on three systems which I'm using simultaneously.

At least on my phone, Firefox Focus has helped immensely.

not sure if you are looking for one but I have an extension that I wrote because I am similar to you and always had a hard time finding the tab I wanted. You might find it useful:


Source code: https://github.com/fiveNinePlusR/tabist

Why though? Is it all in the same context?

I can't stand 10's of tabs let alone 100's!!

Each instance of firefox has its own context. One is unsafe browsing, one is personal browsing, one is development-related browsing, a la Qubes. I used to have a problem with messy, unnavigable bookmarks so now I keep my bookmarks lean and rely on tabs to hold pages I may only need for a month or two at most. It's pretty quick to navigate to a tab with Ctrl+L

How do you create different "instances" of Firefox on the desktop? Or are you just talking about different windows?

You can also run multiple profiles in parallel, using something like

firefox --no-remote --profile-manager

I have that as an alias in bash, and a shortcut on my Windows desktop.

I run a hypervisor OS and all of my work is done in contextual VMs, which each run their own instance of Firefox.

and I don't understand how people have more than about 10 tabs and stay sane. Do you people like... not use bookmarks at all?

Heck, most of the sites I visit on anything like a regular basis I only need to type in the first letter or two and they auto-complete.

I don't use bookmarks. Tabs are for things I want to read today or at least as long as the browser session's open (could be multi-day, but all in a chain of thought). If I don't get round to them I let them die under the justification "couldn't have been important enough" rather than carry baggage.

I have a personal wiki where I save links together with self-made notes and links/references associated with it. This provides a persistent record that is richer than that which bookmarks can provide, and can be accessed from any device that I happen to be on (my own devices, or devices that aren't my own, or links shared to others).

For regular sites, I too type in the URL and it usually autocompletes.

For myself, bookmarks have always fallen into a middle ground that I don't have much use for.

Wow. This is me. TST + personal wiki + pocket

What did you use to create your personal wiki?

Not OP but I would highly recommend TiddlyWiki[1] as a personal Wiki

[1]: https://tiddlywiki.com/


I created handlr.Sapico.me as something like HN with tags to keep bookmarks

It's normal for me to have 100 or more tabs. Bookmarks are for more permanent sites - that I know I'll probably have to access multiple times later. If it's just a one time thing, it doesn't deserve to be a bookmark. At the most, it can be a 'ReadItLater' (Pocket) thing. I use Containers and Tab Groups extensively.

100 tabs on Chrome 10 years ago would not be very nice on the hardware. When you add Chrome's waste-of-space UI and horrible UX (broken ctrl+tab) with no option to change it, it's no wonder people didn't use more than a handful of tabs. On the other hand, if you had a browser that had no issues with it, you might get used to it.

So while it comes down to preference, I think the preference was highly influenced by the technology.

Do you never find yourself having to read through 10-20 pages to find a particular piece of information or to get a complete understanding of a topic? I find it really useful to be able to open up a lot of tabs from a single page and then run through them one by one.

Especially on websites with infinite scrolling. Anyways, it’s just like the analogy books use to explain caches.

> "I don't understand how people have more than about 10 tabs and stay sane. Do you people like... not use bookmarks at all?"

That's a weird assumption, I have several hundred bookmarks. Bookmarks and tabs have different UX and fill different roles. That's why you use 10 tabs and bookmarks, instead of 1 tab and bookmarks. That's why I use 30-40 tabs and bookmarks.

Bookmarks are for things I intend to open regularly. Tabs are for things I opened, decided it's interesting enough not to close, but not so interesting that I need to read it immediately.

I have 500 tabs open on my iPhone. It is sort of like a queue of content that I can read when I have excessive free time.

If you did read them when you had excessive free time, you wouldn't have 500 tabs open. It sounds like your evaluation function is too optimistic.

I'd like to write an extension that killed your old tabs after a while. I already have an idea to do that with a todo list app that automatically gets rid of your old items.

Since you're at 500 items in your queue, something about your workflow is obviously broken.

Either you spend too much time looking for new things to add to the queue, too little time processing the queue, both of the above, or you cast too wide a net for what you might possibly read one day.

Judgemental, are we ? 500 would be a low end for me. My avg hovers around 8 to 9 hundred. You probably dont understand his workflow and requirements. Let me guess they are likely different from yours.

800 to 900 unprocessed items in your incoming queue of items you want to read/view?

If you can knock one off every day you've got two and a half year's worth of items in your queue that you haven't even looked at yet? This is on top of all the things you are already consuming as part of your work or for leisure and at the same time assuming you don't add more things to the queue.

That's madness, and I don't care if you call me judgmental.

It is unreasonable to have that many items in your to-read queue. Stop adding things or start reading things faster (or better yet, both!)

Well I knock off a more than one. You do realize that length of a queue may be totally orthogonal to throughput.

And oh I sure have looked at them, but havent grokked them. Once I do that or I come back to them again and again then they get bumped to a bookmark. Lets say they are part of my job and leisure, sometimes I lose track which is which.

Think generational garbage collection. Tabs and bookmarks are the different generations. I still like tabs better as they preserve more context.

Btw some jobs require more researching than others. Regarding "madness" yes I agree.

Bookmark is for something that I want to be saved forever, tab is something that I want to read now or soon.

Same here. The URL bar matches quite good most of the time, so it's more an omni-bar. If I need something, I type it in and it suggests me the page. Having the tab open will suggest me that tab.

But having so many tabs open makes the tab UI useless, so I prefer to close them.

Different workflow.

Generally when researching something I'll pick a number of search terms, and for each, I'll actually open a few of the hits (in a new tab each time). Of those hits, most get closed right away once I actually look at them and see they're useless, of the rest, I might read a few, or follow the most relevant seeming links. (But usually close some large number of them)

Wash rinse repeat until I'm actually left with a very small set of things that are pertinent to the task at hand.

(This process does seem to leak slightly. I have to do a separate garbage collection pass once in a while.)

It's highly difficult on chrome. On Firefox, I use a userChrome.css hack to give me multi-row tabs (which was an old Firefox extension). I have 49 tabs open right now over 3 rows and I can easily read most of the titles on them.

I have never been able to use Chrome effectively because my browsing habits are so tied to being able see many tabs open at once. I almost always open links by opening them in a new tab and I always open a new tab when starting something new.

I only use bookmarks for sites I visit very often or definitely need at some point in the future and I know I'll remember. Bookmarks just aren't very useful.

Bookmarks are not a good UX. They're slow to load, unreliable (link rot), and a chore to keep organized.

Bookmarks are an improvement over writing addresses down on paper or copying and pasting into a text file. That's about it.

General purpose universally available tools like Google Docs, which makes it easy to copy and paste links as well as rich text, graphics or anything else you want to describe them, and share and collaborate in real time, are an enormous improvement over bookmarks! There's really no point to using bookmarks any more.

Unfortunately, with auto-refresh on webpages, I've had tabs rot on me more than once.

We use TST :)

Considering that pretty much all browser based exploits use JS I'd say the number one reason chrome is not usable for power users is that it used to not be able to block JS without loading it first.

At least this was the case last I checked, haven't really bothered with chrome's technology since its popularity soared ~6 years ago and all my friends started switching to it.

Even if this is fixed it will always be my major sore point about that browser.

Are JS-based exploits a real threat anymore? Even if you do find an exploit, it looks to be an uphill battle, because you still have layers of security to break through, and they're going to differ by target OS and browser. Even on platforms where things are fairly predictable, like say game consoles, the exploits look complicated and are often not very reliable.

Even in Firefox where the security story is still not quite as far along, I still am not really concerned about JS exploits. And most people now run browsers that automatically update. Few parties are going to spend that much money just for it to only be useful for a limited number of targets.

Now that Flash Player and ActiveX are pretty much gone from desktop browsers for most users, I feel the game has changed. People now need to be much more concerned with phishing, XSS, and other flaws. Social engineering is probably more of a threat to the general public than browser exploits.

(I do use firejail to sandbox my Firefox instance from the rest of my machine, but that's more a layer of last defense, and doesn't really prevent too much.)

Are JS-based exploits that break out and attack the OS relevant anymore? For most users, almost anything that's relevant to their lives resides within the browser anyway.

Same point remains, you still have to break the sandbox to even interfere with other websites.

I don’t understand how people browse the web without this extension

Using tab groups ('Panorama View' or 'Tab Stash' extensions etc) instead, for instance? I do like to add some organization to tabs, order by topic etc, but I personally never really saw value (yet perhaps, we'll see) in having a tree for that, 1 level seems sufficient for me. And I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of TST users actuallt use it with just 1 level deep as well.

TST is mainly about having vertical tabs. Grouping and nesting them can be useful.

What I do is "simply" have a bunch of separate windows open on multiple virtual desktops (and 3 physical monitors). It's effectively the same hierarchy, just with only 2 levels (3 if you count virtual desktops) and I find I generally don't need more than that.

Another thing that helps with tab-hoarding is a clever userCSS hack (from someone on Reddit) that puts my tabs into multiple rows so I can still read their titles, even if I have 20+ in one window.

As for why it's not supported out-of-the-box, to put it a bit harshly, deep hierarchies scare "the normies". I find that more than 2-3 levels of trees are too much to remember for most people (hence the cluttered desktops and "bucket" folders).

I'd guess episodic and spacial memory help. All the tabs I'm likely to access together are close together, & were opened at similar times. (So, you can remember what the page was about without needing the full title to associate the tab with the contents).

I probably wouldn't have more than window-width of tabs open at once in a single window, and no more than 2-3 windows open at once.

A tree is a nicer structure for the "where did I open this from", though; especially if the screen space is available.

Accordion my current workload (currently have about ~20 tabs). Anything that gets stuck for a while gets bookmarked, and I generally go through and close unnecessary garbage in the morning.

I've been using TST for many years and it's really the killer feature that keeps bringing me back to firefox.

For those running on older machines who still like having a big tab hierarchy with stuff to check later, there's the "Auto Tab Discard" [1] extension which will discard older tabs from memory while keeping the tab itself, with optional exceptions for pinned tabs, tabs with filled forms, ...

Unfortunately there are still some websites that force me to have Chrome installed, biggest culprit being Facebook which is completely unusable on my 2014 MBP through Firefox.

[1] https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/auto-tab-disc...

I recently realized that chromium is a memory hog, with 50 tabs most of my ram (8G) is gone; while firefor nightly is around 1G, 1.5G maybe with a similar load. I guess this is gonna shrink memory usage even more.

It does seem to use more memory, but at least on my Mac it uses a lot less CPU. For firefox it just takes one bad tab (gmaps, gmail, facebook, youtube/embedded youtube) to grind the whole system to a halt, all these things work fine on chrome, and use almost no CPU on safari.

I feel like everyone has their own anecdotes about this. Surely some third party has done controlled performance profiling on the major browsers? That would be very interesting.

I'm having issues with cpu usage, it's not binary, but very often some subprocess runs at 20-40% cpu usage even when nothing visible occurs. what a joy

> biggest culprit being Facebook which is completely unusable on my 2014 MBP through Firefox

I use the mobile version [1] for this reason (and also because it works with JS disabled). It's as fast as it could get, and most of the useful features are available.

[1] https://m.facebook.com/

I used to be a heavy TST user, but lately I've gone in the exact opposite direction. I now use Max Tabs[0] to limit how many I can have open at a time.

It works wonders for my focus, and I find that whenever I sigh and have to close tabs to open a new one I need, I can easily find ones I didn't really need.

If you're curious, no, it doesn't count pinned tabs-- so any web apps you like to keep open won't count against your limit.

0: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/max-tabs-web-...

I use a similar tab layout in Vivaldi and it's amazing. Page titles are wide, stacking them vertically along the side makes a lot more sense.

Last time I tried Vivaldi, it only had one dimension for the vertical tabs - middle click on a link and it just gets added to the list of tabs.

With TST, I get a second dimension - child tabs are indented in underneath their parent, so that it is clear where they come from. This is the reason that it is called a Tree.

Yea, there is one more level of nesting, you can group tabs but it is a manual effort. I mostly use that when I want to collapse a bunch of pages relevant to a single project that I'm not working on. What problem does the knowing where the tab came from solve?

This is the first thing I install when setting up a new Firefox. Next is Tab Groups or Simple Tab Groups. I will create a tab group for each major category: Common (email, HN, news, daily sites), Python, Powershell, specific groups per project, then have 30 to 40 tabs per group. At work I have further groups for Support, Purchasing, research for specific projects, etc.

I use Chrome for web development jobs sometimes and really miss the vertical tabs and hierarchy. Everything squinched together across the top just feels cumbersome and less manageable.

For folks using Chrome, check out Tabs Outliner if you like This Sort Of Thing™. I can't imagine using Chrome without it.


Tabs Outliner doesn’t remember the hierarchy of your tabs between browser sessions. Every time you quit and then start Chrome, you end up with a flat list of tabs.

That’s a huge non-starter for me. Not fit for purpose.

I installed Sidewise Tree Style Tabs a few hours ago and it seems solid so far.


Pale, buggy, and nagware implementation.

Use the true original instead.

I too depend on Tabs Outliner.

Used it before and it was slow and buggy. I found a better way to manage open tabs: stash them into bookmark stacks using simpler extension. https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/tab-stash

I use OneTab for Chrome, which is similar. If I didn't have that I'd probably switch to FF, but OneTab is good enough for my browsing habits.

Plus one for OneTab on Chrome. I also like the "Share as WebPage" feature (example [1]), which I end up using to share links with myself, in different devices, most of the time :-)

1: https://www.one-tab.com/page/PPPJag1tSsm1NFAWgaOUjw

Oh very neat, I already mostly do this via "Select All Tabs" -> "Bookmark Selected Tabs" on the tab bar. I like how this addon appears to streamline that bit and shows them on the new tab page.

I like this, but I visualized it differently. I assumed the tree style tab bar could be placed horizontally and each tab could be a drop down tree from there. I'm not sure if that would even be possible but I'd prefer that arrangement. I rarely maximize my browser so horizontal space isn't just dead space for me.

This is sort of what you get when you put folders in the Bookmarks Toolbar, but the links within them are just lists and not trees. This is how I manage my bookmarks.

The one thing I don't like from extensions like this is that the inner window ends up in a non-standard width/height and I can't help but think how many sites could track me across domains just by checking for that.

This (well, actually, I use the simpler Tab Center Redux as I have no need for hierarchical complexity) is the biggest reason I kept using Firefox during its pre-Quantum dark years, still do now, and never once switched to Chrome.

Firefox allows fairly seamless* vertical tab implementations; Chrome does not (IIRC they WONTFIXed the request a long time ago). Vertical tab bars are non-negotiable for me, simple as that.

* Well, as others point out, it's now become slightly less seamless since hiding the horizontal tab bar requires a userChrome.css hack, but after you do that just once it's smooth sailing.

Nobody seems to mention the plugin Tree Tabs here: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/tree-tabs/, which IMHO is a much better alternative.

Alternative, which I personally prefer: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/tree-tabs/

I used this for a bit but the duplication of information from this and the existing tab bar made it really annoying. Maybe you can hide the 'normal' bar pretty easily and I just didn't find the setting?

If you install the new version of the addon, it (should) pop up a little help message telling you how to hide the existing tab bar. Basically (as I detail in my other comment) you need to edit a file in the user profile directory. Sadly, the Mozilla team hasn't gotten around to adding a real setting for this yet (although there are plans to).

You can add a few lines to userchrome.css to hide the horizontal tab bar for now.

Firefox messed up big time with their flagship plugin with their last updates... not sure why.

Recent Firefox has a drop-down with a list of all open tabs at the right side of the tab bar; it doesn't do the "tree" at all, but other than that has successfully removed enough of my demand for more that I'm happy. Along with the scrolling tab bar that lets me see at least a few close-by tab titles, it's usable to dozens of tabs at least.

I really don't understand my Chrome-using colleagues who sit perpetually at single-icon-wide tabs and can never find the one they're looking for.

It was a real joy when I was a student doing extensive reading on topic(s), treating tabs as a reading list, since I didn't have enough stuff to do back then. Nowadays I find opening more than 10 tabs too counter-productive and distracting. What I'll do when it happens is using something like onetab to snapshot them all (with the hope of looking into it later, which never happens) and start fresh with the ONE thing I was supposed to focus at the time.

For those who find Tree Style Tabs not powerful enough for their massive amounts of open tabs, I recommend lots of RAM & Tabs Outliner for Chrom(e/ium): https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/tabs-outliner/eggk...

This is great when pinning dozens of tabs. Pinning dozens of tabs only leaves a few pixels of space for tabs I work with on the right side often making it impossible to clearly understand the open tabs adjacent to the active one.

Is there a way to disable the main tab bar?

This comment shows the solution: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18836967

Is there a new hotkey for sibling (vs. child) tab?

Does this play nice with tab save/restore addons similar to Session Buddy? (i.e. is hierarchy persisted?)

Have you checked the addon options? It has a submenu for defining keyboard shortcuts.

Shameless plug. If you are using firefox's container tabs. I have created an addon inspired by tree style tabs that shows tabs under their container.


Has anybody tried the "Sidewise" Chrome extension: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/sidewise-tree-styl...

Looks like it has tree style tabs, among other features.

I used it for a while but didn't like that it was a separate window, and it also seemed to duplicate my tabs. Might be worth a try again because I do miss the tree style tabs in Chrome.

Let us remember that these UX patterns are not browser specific features, but Tile/Window management features.


Just yesterday i was thinking that it would be great to have tree style tabs, and here it is

I use this addon, but I wish it showed as an actual tree (not an indented list of buttons). Also, there's some space to the left that can be reclaimed if you're not using tab groups.

There are a couple appearance options (Vertigo and Sidebar) which don't have the button outlines, may be closer to what you are after. They also don't have the dotted branch lines that some tree controls have. There is also a "No Decoration" option where you can add your own style rules in the Advanced section.

How well does this play with Multi-Account Containers?

Very well! Even shows a little coloured strip on each tab, and respects regular tab hierarchy.

I found the indicators too narrow, so I made this CSS change (in TST config):

  /* Better highlighting of tab container */
  .tab {
    padding-right: 12px !important;
  .contextual-identity-marker {
    width: 6px !important;
    border-radius: 2px;
    margin: 2px;
    opacity: 0.75;
Hope it's helpful for someone else :)

hi, the CSS mentioned here has been serving me well for a while, but since ~month I don't see the RYG buttons anymore. After some experimenting I realized these buttons are rendered only with the native titlebar or with the tabbar. Having toolbar with address, search, etc. and the RYG buttons seems impossible now.

anyone else experiencing this problem?

Anybody knows if something like this is possible in Chrome?

There's a similar, though not quite as good, Chrome extension called Sidewise. Unfortunately Chrome itself is not as extensible as Firefox so there are issues in Sidewise, the most glaring being that the list of tabs appears in a separate window and Sidewise snaps its position and layout to match your Chrome window using some heuristics.

All that said, just use Firefox. It's a much better experience and after Quantum it's on par with Chrome in terms of UI performance.

Sidewise... I already tried it, and it is nothing more than a bad hack... I guess we'll never get that.

Firefox has worse performance than Chrome and I don't trust Mozilla, so unfortunately using Firefox is not an option for me.

What lead you to trust Google more than Mozilla or even put them in the same level of trustworthiness?

The decisions taken by the Mozilla Corporation for the past years make them look like they've completely lost control of themselves. I don't feel like I can trust them at all. I don't want to know what they are going to pull off next week, so I've decided they won't execute any more code on my machine.

> I don't trust Mozilla

Well you gotta pick your poison. It's either them or Google. To be honest, "poison" is too harsh. Mozilla has done a few stupid things, but they're far more trustworthy than other Internet players.

Vivaldi is based on Chromium and allows tabs to be positioned on the side - not Tree Style in terms of hierarchy, but you get the screen-space and usability benefits.


Anyone know of a way to bookmark the tree structure in TST?

TST itself does not have that feature, but there are FF addons that extend TST (https://github.com/piroor/treestyletab#addons-extend-tst).

"Bookmark Tree" looks like what you want: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/bookmark-tree.... Give that a shot.

Right clicking on a tab, I have an item `Tree Style Tab → Bookmark this tree…`. I use Firefox Nightly; this may be a Nightly feature, I don’t know.

It saves the tabs but it doesn't keep the hierarchy. I will try Nightly. Thanks!

Ah, it’s specifically the hierarchy you’re asking about. No, it doesn’t seem to save that.

I just installed and it says it needs extra permissions for that to work, so that might be the problem, that you didn't check the box on the "just installed" page to enable the permissions?

Nice, when are we gonna get tree style ads ;)?

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