Whiskey Lake is supposed to have hardware fixes for Meltdown and L1TF, which should boost performance and battery life.
(Edit: CPU for the 17" is Whiskey Lake, the others appear to be Kaby Lake Refresh, e.g. LG Gram 13.3: https://www.lg.com/us/support/products/documents/13Z980-A.AA...
No info on key travel)
Might there be a vPro configuration with a TPM, for running QubesOS?
It's also the only Macbook I've ever owned, so with people always raving about how great Mackook keyboards are, I'm especially annoyed about it having such a terrible keyboard.
Then why not get the 15"?! I honestly don't understand why the 13-14" screen size exists. If you want something really portable it's got to be 12" or less. If you want something you can do serious work on too it must be 15" or more...
(The only thing more nonsensical than this is the wide screen AR when we know a 4:3 ratio would always be superior. Yeah, power users will customize their UI to get rid of the crap wasting vertical screen space... but those very same power users will also want to see long batches of code or spreadsheet cells, or text, so they'd still crave for more vertical space.)
And 12" is just a little too small for my preference, though not wholly unbearable.
My 15" and larger machines have been much harder to travel with easily. For productivity, I have usually preferred the 15"+ machines. If that were the only consideration, then I wouldn't think twice. But they have been a pain to haul.
I have a 14" T470P (2560x1440) and I do 'serious' work on it all the time, its more than adequate for when I want to work away from a desktop.
What about something semi-serious... like Photoshop or Illustrator which can take reasonable amount of resources, but far fewer than a video editor or an IDE. A 13" with a really good screen can handle this task well and doesn't need the added heft of a 15".
I'd buy that even if it adds one centimeter to the height (gasp ! Now I can have an RJ-45 port and more than one USB port ?!).
yes there is. area and volume inside the chassis increase a lot faster than the length of the diagonal. the limiting factors for performance are heat dissipation and power. a bigger chassis can evacuate heat faster and house a larger battery that can sustain high power use for longer.
Not only are the arrow keys halved but no dedicated hone, end, page up/down keys.
I love the 16:10 dearly, but that keyboard is going to be maddening to anyone but the most casual media consumer. That is true of almost every laptop though, keyboards are typically afterthoughts.
Also HN: Any keyboard thicker than a MacBook air is pure crap.
Umm, what? I think the laptop is thin enough and the trackpad is large enough. They have managed to get a 17" laptop to the same weight as a 13" MacBook Pro, which is a huge achievement.
It's just 13% thicker. It's also 6% heavier, and has a much larger screen.
I am much more interested in the Microsoft Go.
The size is not really a factor, even if larger keyboard are usually more comfortable.
The best keyboard I ever found was on a small Thinkpad many years ago.
The MacBook Pro 2016+ shows that bigger isn't necessarily better when it comes to input devices.
System76's come close, except for that pesky numberpad.
I work from home, portability isn't my top priority. I wouldn't mind a heavier laptop with a very thick base sitting on my lap because I use a laptop tray which prevents the heat from burning my legs. Otherwise I'm at my desk with the laptop on a vertical holder.
I do hate numberpad because I would never use it and it moves the touchpad to left of center.
What is it with PC laptops and off-centered trackpads and keyboards? I center center sit centered to the trackpad and look right, or sit centered to the screen and they awkwardly type to the left.
1. Position yourself in the center of the keyboard and type straight -> This forces you to turn your head/eyes to see the middle of the screen.
2. Position yourself in the center of your screen and look straight -> This forces you to put your hands to the left.
Both are very awkward. A keyboard needs to be centered in front of the PC. Numpads screw that up.
I only know this because my Uncle bought the LG Gram 17 specifically because it has a number pad! In his defense, he's a finance person and it makes the kind of work he does easier.
Ideally I would love a 17" version with desktop standard tenkeyless layout, with track point, too. Having special proprietary layouts for laptop systems is abhorrent.
I ran ElementaryOS on it but then I ran into a few things: 1) troubles getting audio out on HDMI instead of internal speakers (look Mom, no dongles!), 2) video in Chrome browser is broken, 3) some sort of high pitch, very loud tone at startup each time after updating system software.
On Pop, I’m really happy with it. 14” is incredibly light and battery lasts all day for me. Keyboard is good - Ctrl button on outside left where it should be.
Even my netbook which was sold with Ubuntu Linux has been a mixed experience.
Trackpads are pretty hit-or-miss too, but some machines like the XPS 9370 feel ok.
I recently switched to virtualbox on a macOS host and I've been much happier with how the linux desktop experience feels.
But why stop there? For predominant web/doc/code usage, I'd dream of having a 1x1 screen laptop! Imagine the Dell XPS 13, same width of screen and keyboard, now bigger vertically to match the width. It'd be physically smaller than a 17" 16:9 machine, yet have more vertical space.
Not better for having two windows side by side. Considering that we're talking about 17" laptop here, that isn't especially far fetched use case.
I loved both of my 17" MacBook Pros (2003 and 2007, both of which still work). But Apple doesn't care about big screens and proper keyboards anymore, so this is very attractive to me.
- The build quality will not be like what you are used to. The entire chassic will flex and the keyboard will feel more like a trampoline than the keyboard on your Mac.
- Customer support will be useless, just write that off now.
- Keyboard layout might be a little bizarre, I have not looked at this one. [Ed: just looked, wow thats bizarre. Tiny keys, weird arrows, num pad is strange. Just take a good look before you pull the trigger. Not saying its bad, just ... odd. OK maybe bad.]
- Webcam will probably be worse than you are used to
- Trackpad will be light years behind your Mac both in feel and how it performs. Apple just has this figured out and no one else can touch it. Might still be "good" just wont be "Apple good".
- Quality control will be really poor compared to Apple, you might have dead pixels in the display or other build quality or QA issues.
- Prepare to spend the first 15 minutes peeling off stickers and the glue from them.
- You will probably want to just wipe it and re-install Windows or install Linux vs "de-crapwaring" it. No idea what Linux support will be like and I would be hesitant to be the first one to buy one to find out. And this is from someone who runs Linux exclusively.
... and besides that one no other modern laptop has 'real' keyboard.
Windows 10 is easily the worst edition of Windows I've ever used. It forces you to update and breaks the entire damn machine at every go
My Ubuntu desktop and my Ubuntu server in comparison are constantly having problems, especially when I upgrade the distro to the next version.
Pulled updates because of files being deleted, network drives not working after updates, updates installing without user confirmation on reboot forcing people to wait for Windows to get done. Automatically re-installing games into the start menu even on "Professional" version of Windows 10. Start menu searching that is inconsistent and slow. Invasive privacy settings that have a tendency to "accidentally" reset themselves after updates.
This is all well documented on the web, feel free to do some searching. I cannot fathom how anyone can believe Windows 10 is the best version of Windows.
>My Ubuntu desktop and my Ubuntu server in comparison are constantly having problems, especially when I upgrade the distro to the next version.
And besides the forced upgrades, the amount of issues people had with Windows 7 to 10 upgrades might have been the worst I've seen of any version of Windows.
Seriously tho, I have 16 machines I use. Running everything from amigaos to ubuntu studio, win10, and mac. Windows 10 is by far the least responsive, and tqkes more time updating and fixing drivers than the rest combined. Sure, I use music interfaces, latency is my devil, but even ignoring that weakness, Windows 10 is both the worst OS I run, and only better than ME and Vista even in the microsoft world.
I guess the manufacturing pipeline really don't allow for prototypes, so by the time someone is using the device, they've already made twenty million of them and it's too late to change the design.
– actual quote from design meeting
Separately, have you been to a NYC coffee shop recently? Few folks have 15" displays, but two people can just about fit. The 17"-ers take up the full table, and it feels like they're bringing a "rig".
if you're the one with the 15", and the person near it's a 12" or 10", there's enough room. lots of people will be satisfied with 12" so if you're the 15" you'll be in the win. get a 12" if you want room in trains, probably. 14" is a weird compromise. you either need a proper office or table or you don't. and 17" will always be rare enough that 2 people with 17" landing on the same table will never happen. I mean, you get a 17" inch machine especially so you can beam a "fuck off, keep the distance" to people around you... :P
I'm suggesting an "Amtrak laptop" that fits precisely and snugly in the fold-out trays that they give you, regardless of screen size.
... it's a LAPtop. Why bother with the airplane tray when it's thin and light enough to use on your lap?
> What's the appeal of a thin-and-light 17 incher?
Most mainstream customers don't need a powerful CPU/GPU (see success of MacBook Air). All they want is thin, light and a big beautiful screen.
Ikea doesn't sell that chair anymore and apple doesn't sell that laptop anymore. sigh
I disagree with the thin part. I have yet to see anyone care whether a laptop is 1" or .7". This is a pointless marketing ploy, invented by Jobs. Yes, lightness matters. But we have seen (and I actually owned one) incredibly light laptops mostly from Japan well before Jobs invented the thin craze.
Careful there. I didn't say mainstream customers care about having the 'thinnest' laptop. I agree that a distinction between 1" or 0.7" is pointless. They do care about having a 'thin' laptop. It's largely marketing but also partly ergonomics, especially at the 17" size to reduce volume
Noise, performance and battery life are really important too, so there are bound to be a lot of compromises. But I really do value thinness.
* at 17" I'd like more memory available than 16gb
* same for more than 512gb of disk
* pretty small trackpad for all that space, make use of it!
I'd be very interested to see how well it sells - I know a few people that swear by 17" laptops, and was sad to see apple exit that market (for them, 13" is easily a large enough laptop for me)
What?! The last 17" laptop I had the misfortune to be lumbered with was an HP Zbook 17. I don't recall exactly, but it was easily at least 4kg and about 1.75 inches thick!
I'm astonished they've got this so light and thin - will definitely be considering one when it's time for an upgrade, as I much prefer a larger screen for coding!
I'd rather just see the 15" rMBP get a bit thicker so that it can have more variety of I/O and stay at the ceiling for battery capacity.
Does that also apply if it’s two batteries, both physically removable, from the outside? Just curious. SWMBO and I travel with can lights for diving, big batteries but none individually over the limit.
Btw, newer Lenovo T4x0 models have a very nice dual-battery configuration, which allows you to swap the battery without shutting down.
(Ex-MBP 17”-er here.)
As it happens, I’m also an SE owner who is devastated that it has been discontinued. I love my small phone, but it seems that I’m in a minority.
This is patently absurd.
I was told touch screens are always glossy.
Has anyone really extensively used an LG Gram as a daily? Does it hold up well over time? The last thing I want is to have something break and wait 2 months for a warranty repair...