Apparently, the contractor let the drywall get soaked while sitting on palettes during monsoon season, and since the roofing wasn't done there were inches of standing water that resulted in black mold.
They just drywalled right over it. In the US. In 2018. In a luxury condo.
So, you never know what nonsense you will have to put up with.
This happens regularly in the SFBA, in Marin County. Every rainy season I see at least one house being built through Nov-Dec-Jan that is in the bare studs stage and gets soaked with a week or so of constant rain.
And then the sun comes out and they immediately tyvek wrap and seal the whole house up. Sopping wet, soaked studs, entrapped on both sides. I would love to open up the drywall in one of those two years later and see what the inside of the walls look like...
These are very expensive homes ... the four I am thinking of over the past two years were all 2M+.
This talk really gave me a foundation for understanding how moisture works in a building enclosure through seasons: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ld8pzIu45F8
The speaker is a little hammy, but he's doing (more or less) legitimate science, and he laid out a bunch of principles I didn't understand before.
In particular, the different layers of the wall (ballistic, water, insulation, vapor, structure) really need to go in the right order, and at literally every exterior joint in the house you need to match up all five layers. There are also several layers that it is crucial to vent/drain.
It's extremely complicated, and for the most part just obeying code and convention will only get you 80% of the way there.
It seems to me there are also anti-patterns ensconced in code and convention. The idea that insulation goes inside the structural layer for example. You want your insulation layer to be unbroken.
I know they're in the desert, but drywall really should happen after the building envelope is sealed.
It's why bad actors (such as the ones described above) keep getting away with what they do.
Entering a rainy season without a roof being sheathed is also bad contracting.
How does that work?
You may not be eligible for regular tenant protections, but you're still eligible for recourse through regular courts, no?
My first rental in London had bad mould problems. The landlord refused to fix them. We ended up with dehumidifiers throughout the house to keep it under control. When we left after a year, he complained at us for keeping dehumidifiers around when potential tenants came to visit - it raised too many questions! This was a 2200+/mo rental that he had bought for about 100k 15 years ago. What a crook.
For an air purifier, you need one with a UV light.
1. Air filters might reduce the airborne spores, but if you have mold already growing behind some wardrobe you are wasting time.
2. Hydrogen peroxide, chloride, and isopropyl alcohol are all good tools to fight it when you find a place where it grows, but ultimately you have to solve the problem at a deeper level as mold has excellent survival skills (you might clean the wall but the spores in the air infect it again right afterward).
3. In order to eliminate mold, you have to change the environmental conditions. As most living organisms mold requires food and water. The water comes either from inside the wall (that is something only your landlord can fix) or from the air. So try to maintain a low humidity level within your apartment (<50% should be okay). The easiest way to achieve that is by using your heating and replacing all air within your apartment by opening all windows for 5 minutes (to let in cold air, no longer, as it will cool down the temperature of the wall otherwise), three times a day. Mold nourishes itself from organic material. Very often that means fabric, wood or wallpapers (yes removing your wallpaper might be a good idea). Since water condenses in cold spots first, those are the place you want to keep looking for (walls next to windows, corners of a room).
Three years ago I had a mold problem in my apartment. Following the above advice, the mold didn't come back (except for a few spots in the shower, but that is kinda difficult to keep dry).
If you smell "swimming pool" where no pool exists, it might be prudent to leave the area immediately and take a 1000 mg vitamin C tablet, before making any attempts to discover the source of the smell. (Taking vitamin C after the damage is already done won't help.) If the odor is especially strong, or if it causes any irritation to your nose and eyes, evacuate, and do not return. Call your emergency services number and tell them you smelled a strong chlorine odor.
Don't combine bleach cleaners with ammonia cleaners, ever. Don't even store them in the same place. Also avoid mixing bleach with acids, such as vinegar.
Any advice appreciated.
The mould is still there but the dry air stops it from growing and sporing which is what makes you stick. If humidity creeps up the mould will grow again. Be aware that mould is virtually everywhere and is only harmful if there is enough of it around sporing or if you touch it.
The problem is, once the calcium chloride has absorbed the moisture from the air and is saturated, you have to take it out and dry it to make it effective again. That might be cheaper (in terms of energy) than refrigerant phase-change dehumidification, but it's a lot more labor intensive.
Natural airflow with the outside at 90% relative humidity isn’t going to do a thing other than make the interior occupants ornery.
The natural airflow design of Apple Park for example, that works incredibly well, but that same design in Houston or New Orleans would be catastrophically ridiculous.
I'm not really sure about keeping the humidity below 50% though. The UK and most of Northern Europe has rather high humidity in the winter. It commonly reaches 80-90 RH outside, so you'd have to heat your house to 25c/77F to bring the humidity below 50%.
Indoors? No, not at all. In the winter the temperature in my house/office is 21-22C and 17 at the lowest at night, and I have to run a humidifier 24/7 to keep the humidity over 30% (otherwise the wooding floors shrink too much).
Currently in the bedroom (thanks Netatmo) it's 17.8° and 69% humidity (with one of the three windows open about 0.5"). That compares to 14.0° and 78% on the balcony. Looking at the graphs, 50% is the lowest indoor humidity over the last month.
Still - mold in houses is not a problem in houses in Western/Northern Europe, except for the most pathological cases (for example, mold scores you iirc 2 points in Belgium on the 'uninhabitable property' test, where 9 gets your building declared unfit for living in. Having small holes in the roof or small cracks in the walls (still structural defects) gets you 3. That's how unusual mold is around here. OTOH when I lived in New Zealand, mold was met with 'eh, there's bleach in isle 5 at Countdown, just wipe it down.'. I was like 'wut?'.
Alas, it does not, but that's possibly because other windows are open around the place and there's relatively good airflow.
> I'm going to try this same experiment tomorrow, I'm quite interested to know.
I'll see how it goes tomorrow with the window closed and various doors closed to minimise the effect of the other windows.
When it gets to the cold part of winter it's obviously easier, but this time of year it's hard to get it below 50% RH inside just by controlling the temperature.
Cold air can simply hold less water overall, at 20C it can easily hold double as much water as it can at 0C.
There being a pressure difference is nonsense, you can get the same air pressure in the winter as in summer (though it tends to go on the Low side more often). What you probably mean is the vapor pressure, ie the natural pressure the liquid wants to be at in a closed container, though while it is largely depdenent on temperature, it does so in a linear/positive way, so at lower temperature, water will evaporate less (otherwise ice would more easily sublimate).
Once you go below zero a water content of a few grams can easily hit 100% RH which would barely manage 5% or less at 30C.
If you can blow dry air over its surface, you can evaporate liquid water (or sublimate water ice) even when the relative humidity is 100%.
You can think of air as a gaseous solution, and its water vapor content like table salt in aqueous solution. Temperature affects the solubility, and if the solution is saturated, no more can dissolve. You can still dissolve salt crystals sitting in a saturated cold saltwater solution by squirting warm freshwater onto the bottom of the container. If that then mixes with the rest of the solution, and everything cools down again, that dissolved salt can then precipitate out somewhere else (like rain), or form a suspension of tiny crystals (like fog or clouds).
The solubility of H2O vapor in atmospheric gas increases with temperature. But you can also do something with a gaseous solvent that you can't easily do with a liquid solvent, which is to change the pressure. Higher pressure lowers the solubility of water in air, but to a far lesser extent than a decrease in temperature. Even though the vapor pressure is dependent only on temperature, evaporation occurs whenever the vapor pressure exceeds the partial pressure of H2O at the interface. Increasing the overall air pressure also increases the partial pressure of H2O vapor by a proportional amount, so inhibits further evaporation. But water vapor is also less dense than N2, O2, and most other atmospheric gases, so the means of measuring pressures gets complicated.
When you involve wind, and stratified airflows, it gets even more complicated. The air blowing across water or water ice could have been previously warmed by the ground just enough to evaporate more water, then get pushed higher by an angled snowbank into colder, saturated air, and it will then dump the excess water as small ice crystals. A solid block of ice can then become "rotten" as a snowdrift forms downwind of it. The overall average temperature may say that ice should stay frozen, but the wind can still carry a tiny bit of water vapor at a time, thanks to local fluctuations, and with enough volume of air to move it, that ice will drift.
This might or might not have been feasible given OP's budget, heating arrangements, and general preference. I for one would not want to live in such a hot room for a whole season even if I could afford to. I keep my room cooler than that even in the summer!
Sorry to ask, but I’m not really sure I got it right: Do you think the DIY air purifier was the cause of these health problems? Or did it at least contribute by letting the mold come back (inside)?
As others have noted, a dehumidifier could help. But what prevents mold from growing inside these dehumidifiers as well? Sure, they’re mainly built from plastic and metal, so no paper as in your case. Will that be enough to prevent mold (or bacteria)?
Otherwise, a dehumidifier could turn into yet another health hazard over time.
I briefly lived inside an apartment that was previously a cave. There was a plaster wall separating from the outside, and after raining, it ended up covered in mold. We cleaned it with bleach, but moved out soon after. I hope I did not get too much exposure.
Do not forget that black mold release mycotoxins, which are carcinogenic.
If you want to get some fresh air in your home, do not leave a window half-open all day long—instead, open all your windows at once to cycle the air as fast as possible, then close them again and let the purifier do its job. If you do that in the morning (ideally just before leaving, if you aren't staying home), you'll have great air quality through the entire evening and night.
Since we're on HN, I'll also mention a toy project I built a while back . It uses a Raspberry Pi to read particulate matter sensor mesurements over serial link from a Dylos 1100 Pro, then pipes it into Redis and InfluxDB and ultimately Grafana for presentation. I've used it to track the air quality in my home in for the past year or so and it's pretty fun. In my case, cooking is usually the biggest contributor to poor indoor air quality!
How does the Dylos 1100 Pro compare to, for example, the Nova SDS011 sensor? By my cursory review, the SDS011 is much cheaper and appears to offer a more native Raspberry Pi-compatibility experience.
Is the Dylos more precise? Can it produce readings the SDS011 can't? Are the two sensors measuring fundamentally different things?
Finally, if you had to do it all over again, would you choose a different sensor or stick with the Dylos?
Thanks for sharing your project and for your insights!
I recently watched a video from dhh (https://youtu.be/MRqh8oLY7Ik) about air quality at home and was thinking if there was a nice diy solution for measuring it.
A cool feature of the Dylos is monitor mode. It wakes up every hour, spins the fans for 1 minute, and spits out a measurement. It's convenient for 24/7 monitoring because it reduces fan noise and dust accumulation. I don't know if the SDS011 offers something similar, or if you could somehow program that yourself, but that may be something to consider.
I'm very happy with the Dylos overall. In addition to being 5 years old, mine has been running in monitor mode for the past year and a half with no issues so far so I really can't complain about reliability. Issues are size, fan noise, antiquated UI, and also antiquated connectivity, although I personally enjoyed working with serial (threw me back to early Duke Nukem LANs before we moved to IPX). I wouldn't be surprised if there are superior alternatives today, at least regarding usability.
Why not have a filtered air ingress ?
That is, instead of sealing the house, why not install an air purifier in a window and have constant fresh air inflow ?
It's called "tężnia", have no idea how to translate that :) Google gives "graduation tower" but I doubt it's correct.
Particulates and VOC (Volatile Organic Compounds).
Think of particulates as specs of dust with varying size and VOC's as random chemical compounds such as spray paint, smoke, oders.
The general go-to clean room/industrial filter stack is Prefilter(F5 Bag)->HEPA->Activated Carbon. The pre-filter catches all the big particulates to prevents clogging the HEPA filter. The HEPA filter catches all of the really small particulates. The activated carbon captures most of the VOC's/oder/smoke.
The official way to monitor when a particulate filter is bad, is to measure the pressure drop across the filter, and compare to manufacture specs. For the carbon filters, you would install a gas sensor measuring whatever chemical your trying to scrub. When there is a spike in that particular gas compound from your sensor. You know the carbon filter is saturated, and should be changed.
It looks like the the filter mentioned in the article video,combines all the filter products into a single product. Nice! If your air handler can manage the increased pressure drops, please buy the most legit filters you can buy. It's literally the cheapest insurance you can buy.
yup, i bought a blueair 211+ (https://www.blueair.com/us/blue/blue-pure-211/1695.html), that has exactly those filter elements in a nice (if bigger than expected) package. this model was recommended by both consumer reports and the wirecutter (until recently, cynically thinking they didn’t pay wirecutter’s “endorsement fees”). it’s effectively eliminated my constant coughing, sneezing and runny noses before i got it.
I don't think I was the only one, though. HD was doing a brisk trade in 20x20 filters, and I think I bought the last box fan at any Target in the entire bay area.
My "creation": https://i.imgur.com/jeJfqeW.jpg
Get some 120mm fans (or an array of 80mm, etc), and some engine air filters.
Don't change the filters too often:
"It is common, however, for servicing to occur when the filter appears dirty. Engine air filters are designed to actually increase their efficiency by using this initial layer of dust as an added filter layer. Initial filter efficiency is usually approximately 98% but increases to more than 99% by the
end of the service life of the filter.
Therefore, changing an air filter before the useful service life is achieved can result in premature engine wear."
Thank you for bringing this up ... in industrial settings, filters are "seasoned" for some period before they can be expected to perform at their published ratings.
Many air and water filters' performance continues to rise over their lifetime - the downside being decreased flow rate.
If you are filtering infectious agents with a water filter, I would be reluctant to run them past their lifetime because you could have things living in the filter and filter housing, etc., but if you're just dealing with particles, your filtration should continue rising over time.
I've been begging for a good use of old computer fans...
Is that the spot of use as well? I’d imagine the vicinity of the wall would limit the airflow.
There's often an electrostatic component that ties into a filter's efficacy, as well.
I still have a sore throat, but I also have to go outside a lot, so maybe that's not surprising.
What gets me is how these guys misuse “science marketing” to play on people’s fears about germs. Add the shameless exploitation of a real tragedy here.
While the New York Times Co. did indeed purchase The Wirecutter/The Sweethome, there’s no reason to start attributing Wirecutter reviews to the parent company.
This is especially true in the settings of reviews, since the NYT performs its own reviews.
1. CADR is really low to the point where the unit is near useless due to #2
2. In addition to a low CADR, it has the highest noise. It looks and sounds like a jet engine when you have this thing on high, which is needed due to the low CADR. This is the loudest air purifier that I’ve ever owned
3. If you get a defective main filter, the unit will emit an unpleasant metallic smell. I haven’t tested the particles yet but I doubt the air is clean.
4. Unlike other smart air cleaners in the same price range, it’s app and smart features don’t work. You can’t even create a schedule for it
It’s a very flawed device
5. The unit works using some LED light.
A. it is bright
B. It is not replaceable. Meaning after 2-4 years of operation, the unit becomes a throwaway. This is not a good thing for a unit that costs over $700
The first step for me was getting a device to measure particles in the air. The air quality index (AQI) is an aggregate score that is made up of contributions from several harmful components. Of these, the quantity (weight/volume) of small particles (<2.5um) is often the large contributor. This is called the PM2.5.
Directly measuring PM2.5 is very hard, requiring a device that eliminates the larger particles from the air (typically a cyclonic separator it seems) combined with some way of capturing and weighing of the very small quantity of remaining particles (we're talking ug/m^3).
Many home air quality sensors instead measure the count/volume of particles larger than 2.5 um and call that the "2.5um measurement". You can see the problem. I bought a laser particle counted called Dylos DC1100 Pro. The Dylos measures particles counts larger than 2.5um as is common, but also counts particles larger than 0.5um. Of these two numbers, the 2.5 count is only vaguely correlated with the actual PM2.5 measure, but the 0.5um count is highly correlated.
A bit of internet research (it seems many people have used the Dylos meter in various projects) and I was able to construct a scale to correlate 0.5um+ counts to PM2.5, and therefore AQI. (0.005*count~=ug/m^3)
OK, all that done, to the filtration. First, I installed 3M 1550 MPR furnace filters (~MERV11). The "1550" is a measure invented by 3M 'MicroParticleRating' (or something) and is supposed to speak to how well the filters remove small particles. However these furnace filters don't really knock down very small particle counts in once pass. Sure enough, putting the particle meter at an air duct, the large (2.5+) particle count was way down, but the small particle count was only down a little bit (15-25%?) from the ambient air. Net effect is that after running for several days my house numbers are about 1/3 of the outside air counts.
I also bought a BlueAir HEPA filter for my bedrooms. HEPA is supposed to be 99+% effective for particles 0.3um and up. This filter is in a whole different league. The particle counter placed on top of the filter returns near-zero small particle counts and does a much better job eliminating smells. The room they were in got down to 1/10 of outside levels.
Overall I'm glad I got both types of filters, we are sleeping better, and the meter was very helpful to understand what was going on.
I have built one of these (20x20 furnace filter on a box fan) and always put the filter on the intake side of the fan. However it seems like people are placing the filters on the outflow side of the fan instead, for reasons that are not clear.
Since it seems like you did some measurements, do you have any idea whether it's preferable to have the filter on the intake or outflow side of the fan? (I note that in furnaces and other air handling equipment, filters are almost universally on the intake, not the outflow, side, presumably because this keeps dust out of the blower/heating mechanicals.)
The narrator puts a particle counter in front of the fan and notes the 90% reduction. So far so good.
The problem is extrapolating this result to the entire room. Yes, maybe you'd get close to 90% if the device were allowed to run a few days.
On the other hand, it could leave the situation worse (by blowing existing particulates around) or unimproved (by failing to filter room air efficiently enough.
Either way, I'd like to see see a controlled study. Two identical rooms with identical usage. One gets a homemade filter. The other gets just a fan of the same make and model, maybe with a dummy filter to baffle airflow.
What's the average particle count in both rooms after, say one week?
It also works well by itself if you just want to cheaply filter large particulates. I used to use it in those cheap $40 Hamilton Beach air purifiers. The OEM filters for those cost almost at much as the new unit and wear out [for me] within a couple of weeks. That setup with Swedish tracing paper works well for dust, as a supplement for my HEPA filter purifier.
I am so tired of dust in my studio. There is no ventilation other than the small fan in the bathroom or the big sliding door in the front. So I leave the fan turned on overnight but because of pressure difference, very small particles keep accumulating all over my place. I’m really hoping this changes that.
Fan --> Cheap Filter --> Expensive Filter
Fan --> Expensive Filter --> Cheap Filter
Cheap Filter --> Expensive Filter --> Fan
Expensive Filter --> Cheap Filter --> Fan
You put the filters on the intake, so that the airflow helps making a seal instead of creating leaks.
You put the cheap filter first everything that it catches will not clog the expansive one.
- I bought XIAOMI Mi Air Purifier 2 straight from China for $137.00 and spent 1 euro on a EU plug. It's so quiet that I can sleep next to it, looks nice and it's quite compact, so doesn't take up much space. It has a particle detector to adjust the fan speed. The app is useless, so a cheaper version without WiFi and bluetooth would be great.
- Buy some HEPA filters to put into window ventilation. You may want to remove some plastic inside to increase the flow http://img.archiexpo.com/images_ae/photo-g/69621-5895915.jpg
- Buy roomba like vacuum cleaner https://www.goodcheapandfast.com/articles/best-robot-vacuums
It will cost you less than 500$ to buy these and about 55$/year for new filters. It is worth the money. The air quality is much better (I'm allergic and I haven't had any problem with my sinus since).
What is more, is it worth it. It will save you time cleaning your place (about 10h/year)
Anyone has tried robot vacuums with mop or automatic dirt disposal function?
Not very. Wet wool is better, but only as long as its wet and clean.
> XIAOMI Mi Air Purifier 2 straight from China
Interesting question. Does the removal of particulates offset the health impact of its cheap plastics?
Do you mean the health impact of when the device is thrown away?
have you tried it with hass (home assistant)? I've been considering getting one and running it via that instead.
I buy filters in bulk from McMaster Carr for $5 apiece.
The writer has tested a lot of combinations of fans and filters (Simple, HEPA, Activated Charcoal). It's astonishingly easy to build a combination that costs way less than a "professional" Air filter.
The writer has put his findings into a "social startup" that builts these simple, but very effective airfilters in some developing countries:
I have pretty bad allergies purchased a Coway Airmega 300 for my 850sq ft studio. I've had it for about 6 months and been incredibly happy with it. I wrote some initial thoughts about it here.
It has to be the best looking air filter on the market—I wanted something that would look good in my place when I have people over. Beyond that it is extremely well designed and the pre-filters are super easy to clean. I got mine on sale for about $400.
For smaller rooms the Coway mighty is a better and more affordable pick. It doesn't look as nice, but it is currently at the top of The Wirecutter's air purifier recommendations. You can find it on sale for around $180.
Once in a while, I will light a candle and when I blow it out, will hear the air purifier go on full-blast (Speed 3) to clear the air.
Interestingly, it sometimes turns to medium power (Speed 2) when I'm just shuffling around the room. I imagine its because I have a few rugs and its pushing up a lot of dust.
I worry about the long term effects of being “too clean”, that is, I think there’s something to hygiene theory of disease. The body needs small stressors and perturbations in order to thrive.
Used an existing box fan. I had to buy duct tape ($3) and the filter I used one rated for 0.1micron pollen and viruses cost me $17 (rounding up after tax). I cut up a plastic safeway bag to make the seal around it. Seeing as most smoke particles is around 2.5-.5 micron I figured it'd be okay.
I threw this together at about 7am on Saturday after I woke up coughing my lungs out at 6am (I live in the bay area). Just a quick trip down the the Homeless Despot to get the parts and throw it together.
All things consider it works great. The air in my apartment is easy to breath, but if I leave without a respirator (even today) I cough uncontrollably.
As of Tuesday evening it has been running for 4 days straight (no overheating). And has started to become noticeably brown. Needless to say I'm thankful for it.
The MERV 13 20" filter is 140GBP on amazon.co.uk and 20" box fans are 40-50GBP.
1) If the filter is at the back, since the air is pulled through it, the dirty side is outside where people and kids can touch it as it builds up. If the filter is in the front, the dirty side is inside (towards the fan blade) while the clean side is outside.
2) If the filter is at the back, due to air's resistance it is possible, due to nooks/gaps in the fan, that the some of the air may be pulled from elsewhere and not all the air may pass through the filter. If the filter is in the front, it is easier to seal between the fan and the filter to make sure all air is pushed through it.
I'm curious... doesn't #2 cut both ways? i.e. if you can seal the front, you can seal the back?
I wish the guy on the video would take an air reading measurement near the side of the filter. I'm guessing that a lot of unfiltered air is escaping out the sides.
BTW you need not cover the entire area of the fan with filter material. So, for instance, if your fan's breaker is shutting the motor down b/c of the load of the filter, you can slide the filter up to cover less of the fan with the filter, reducing the load on the fan motor. While not all air passing through the fan will be filtered, over time most air will eventually pass through the filter and the room will be cleared of particulates.
Similarly, it is not necessary that the filter be the same shape or size as the fan, since with each pass at least part of the airstream is cleaned. Eventually all the air in a room will pass through the filter area.
With the filter thoroughly taped to the front (nearly airtight), there’s a large amount of blowback. I suspect that this is reducing the overall efficiency of air filtration.
I used to put the high-efficiency filters on my furnace, my HVAC guy said these filters are so heavy that they put a strain on the blower motor. It's better for the motor to use a plain blue fiberglass filter (MSRP $1). You're not really filtering that much out of a closed house, unless you run your forced-air A/C or Heat with the windows open.
This graph of airflow vs. MERV rating isn't very conclusive in my mind: http://www.homeenergy.org/UserFiles/file/26-6_p34big(1).jpg
Granted there are about a million variables in all HVAC systems that could affect the results.
This one only goes down to one micron though, so it might not be usable for many allergens.
They are hard to find and buy in the US, but very popular in China where many cities have major air quality issues. I picked one up on ebay.
Most of these consumer-grade PM2.5 monitors seem to use the same basic laser scatter sensor that measures 0.3um+ particles.
PurpleAir sells an indoor sensor, but it appears to be limited release and somewhat 3D printed.
I've got a foobot, I like it. It was benchmarked by some gov't agencies and found to track pretty well.
There is no need for an air purifier if you have ample light in your room. Just plant a few indoor plants
NASA has done a study in the 80s and these plants have purified a lot of harmful gases including Benzene, formaldehyde, CO etc
Please use more plants!! And on top of that few plants like Snake, Aloe give oxygen during day and night so they are refreshing (as in they don't just clean air they give oxygen as well) and plants are cheaper and require just water and fertilizer every once in a while.
I own 40+ plants in my balcony garden itself. I've experienced these effects first hand!
And yes it isn't a magical solution, we have to be careful while placing plants in our house.
They did the same with formaldehyde too and other harmful substances.
Isn't that the bar for purification? This is still better than mere air dolter that are costly and requore frequent maintenance
And this does not invalidate the study, only helps evaluate the results in context of applying at home or office. I.e. it's still gonna help, but unless you restrict your airflow, not as much as you'd like.
Though the same caveat probably applies to all air purifiers too.
So whatever reservations you have against plants as air purifiers apply verbatim to commercial air purifiers. Then why the bias against plants?
Funny how you contradicted yourself, not to mention those downvoting me for speaking about plants and yet being enthusiastic about air filters!!
On one hand you say the focus on NASA study is on the word "sealed". That would directly mean that you believe that plants as indoor purification would not be helpful if there was no sealed environment
And then you say that "the same thing would apply to air purifiers"
You clearly have a bias against plants, as do the few who downvoted me. I know you didn't downvote because HN doesn't allow you to do that!
The study which you have linked says that "more research needs to be done to check air purification" and guess what? They are going to do a study in a sealed environment because if a plant can remove Benzene, Formaldehyde and Toulene in a sealed environment then it can do the same when its not in a sealed environment. You cant5 shrug the results of NASA study saying "it was done in a n atypical environment", of course it was done in a sealed room.
The NASA study would have been refuted if no amount of Benzene was removed by plants. That'd mean that it is a waste of time and space for air purification, but they are not. Peace lily and Orchids removed Benzene. Period. Whether it was a sealed environment or not doesn't matter because results matter.
When a plant that costs less than 100$ has proven to remove harmful gases in a sealed room, I can't wrap my head around the logic of "debunking", the myth and going for a commercial air purifier that is costly af.
And why I say you contradicted yourself is that you criticized plants for being in a sealed room for being effective and then at the end you said "the same things apply to a regular sir purifer too"
This is exactly the fallacy Mr Trump had spoken to in a rally. He had said "I'll build a 100foot wall", the Mexicans will climb the wall, sure but they won't jump, unless of course they use ropes"
Yeah, they will use ropes and they will cross if they want to cross. That's not contradicting, it's a stupid logic.
Same issue with your case against house plants. "Keyword is sealed"
Which study has proven that air purifiers available in the market have done well in an aerated environment? The recommended way to use a commercial air purifier is to close doors and windows. Same issue as plants so if you recommend commercial purifiers over plants despite them both facing same shortcomings then you are biased against plants. End of story.