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Show HN: Applying for jobs? Manage all your interviews in one place (afterinterview.com)
306 points by ohsik 3 months ago | hide | past | web | favorite | 126 comments



How do you plan on making money? My concern would be that you need to be extremely upfront about what data you're collecting and if you're selling it back to these companies whom the person interviewed with (even if anonymized). This is a very personal exchange between an employee and employer that could have significant impact on employment negotiations. For example, I might not want employer A, knowing that I'm also interviewing with employer B/C/D, unless I choose to use it for negotiation. This could be used to target folks into lower paying jobs if they don't have prospects, multiple offers, etc.

I'm not trying to be harsh here or blow up your idea. Maybe it's a totally free app. I'm not sure. But, if you are selling user data, you could be inadvertently increasing companies bargaining power through hidden knowledge of what someone is doing too. If a company uses this added data on me, and gets me to take an offer that's 30k less per year, and I stay there 4 years, that ends up costing me 120k over 4 years (30k*4y) all for using an interview note taking app.


One potential idea is a "pay it forward" model where you're asked to pay for someone else using the service, but only after you have successfully found a job.

When a job seeker signs up they would see that their subscription was paid by someone else and it will instantly build goodwill/stickiness for the product.

It's generally hard to monetize from job seekers since they don't have an income in many cases, but many would be happy to once they land a job and may even choose to buy a subscription for personal friends/family who are looking for a job. Similarly companies could also pay to buy X # of subscriptions for job seekers to attract people to their jobs and build goodwill/positive employment branding.

Could make for a good viral loop, could drum up some great PR, and help a lot of people


Thank you for the comment! To be honest with you, I didn't expect to get this much traction but that's something I have been thinking about a lot lately for the future of the product. I'm still not sure the exact path of monetizing the product yet but I know I want After Interview to help people to get the job they want rather than selling data to companies.

Currently, companies can claim their company pages but exchange for uploading a company logo, description and maybe job listing.


If enough people join, you can track response times, candidate experience, offer etc and surface data about that for paying customers.

I haven’t looked at your product, but the premise is very real. It would be good to know what companies to apply for based a bunch of variables.

In theory Glassdoor could build that, but their interests are not best aligned to the candidate.


On your FAQ page you say "This will require a monthly subscription fee for companies".

What does the company get in exchange for the monthly subscription fee?


You could use the fact that a candidate has been verified to have interviews at a FAANG to let other tech companies poach them. Maybe a footer saying "Have you considered ACME Corp? (sponsored)" with a bidding system based on where they're interviewing or have interviewed.

Would HN consider that an invasion of privacy?


Not a violation of privacy if you get the users’ consent first. And I’m sure that there are people who would actually want this as a service.


Yes.


Yeah, totally makes sense. Just trying to play devils advocate here as it was the first thing that came to mind and the more I thought about it they worse it got. Likely something you could address is the privacy/terms section if it ever gets to that point. You could also flip it around, and help folks get a leg up on companies, in that you could say folks that interviewed with A/B/C choose A. You might even collect data like glassdoor on this webdev vs devops gets 150k per year for a similar job. Maybe interview-to-offer timelines, like how many interviews it takes, and typically takes 6+ months to get hired here. I'm not sure. I'd just focus on giving potential employees an advantage vs employers. As, employers typically already have a massive advantage for folks just entering the job market.


Is there an offline-only mode that does not access a server or collect data? I could see using this as a local-only way to keep organized without needing any cloudy features.


> help people to get the job they want rather than selling data to companies

I think that's better indeed. If the model is to sell data to companies, it may feel to the user that you're telling companies which companies they're interviewing with, etc.


What are the odds you mentioned this product on here like a year ago and they this sprung out of your own job own hunting? This feels familiar but I can't place why.


Can I speak with you about this? I have been working on this market for a bit and have some product ideas that might be useful to you. Email me :)


Honestly, if this were to take off, I could see Microsoft/LinkedIn having some acquisition interest.


even if it doesn't, those guys love a good acqihire.


SaaS with a strict privacy policy should do it for most customers. You could have varying levels of privacy at different price tiers. E.g. a free tier where some PII is sold and go from there.


I swear that I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but can someone help me understand what's so spectacular about this? I don't understand why it got so many upvotes. How is this more than a list view of companies you've applied to? The company can send a decision through the app, but how is that better than them just sending an email? If this app resulted in feedback being given at a higher frequency, I could see the value add, but most companies don't give feedback for liability reasons. Legitimately curious why anyone cares about this. What am I missing?


I completely agree with you. I couldn't believe the description, that I had to go to the FAQ to confirm what actually happens is what was described - a link companies can use to review. How is this better than email?

I mean I wish success and everything but I just can't see anyone bothering using it.


> Interview feedback - Give interview feedback to your interviewer and get feedback back.

I'd be very surprised (and impressed) if any interviewer gives honest feedback on the interview, in writing (via the app), esp. in cases where candidate was rejected / didn't receive an offer.

Cos that would have a discrimination lawsuit written all over it. HR and/or Recruiters also never gives candid feedback for the same reason. Because if they do, someone will eventually sue the company for discrimination.

Ex: The most common cookie cutter response for rejection based on ageism is "We really loved you, but unfortunate there wasn't a cultural fit."


I got clear feedback from Google, Box, and Clearbit about what they didn’t like about the on-sites in my last job search 2 months ago.

At google I did bad in one of the technical questions (they told me which), box said I didn’t seem excited about the company (true), and Clearbit said I wasn’t able to implement a simple solution to a complex problem (because I was forced to use ruby and was rusty).


That’s very suprising to me; I have given interviews at Google and Apple and they really drilled into my head that giving any feedback about performance was left to the recruiter, and any response no matter how germane it sounded could open up the company to lawsuits. That kind of answer was exactly what we were told we could not give.


I think when companies give feedback it is a recruiter or HR person doing it, and they are more aware of what could be lawsuit bait. I think companies want to avoid having engineers give the feedback, but are ok having HR do it.


When I interviewed at Clearbit I got more or less the same response for probably more or less the same reason.

The only thing I didn’t like about it is that the requirements never said they were looking for ‘simple solution’.

Ah well.


I'm seeing more companies do this, actually. For example Dropbox gave me very specific and helpful rejection feedback. I'm sure they have guidelines in place to make sure they don't invite lawsuit. It was all strictly about my performance on specific questions. Also they tend to do it over the phone, again I assume to reduce chance of lawsuits.


Several years ago I was on a job hunting expedition. I went through 10-15 interviews, both on-site and over the phone, and almost no one would tell me what I did "wrong". The most I ever got was something along the lines of "culture fit".

It was extremely frustrating to me as a candidate. How do you get better at something if know one helps you? Did I have lettuce in my teeth? Was I wet because it was raining and I forgot my umbrella? Am I truly a terrible programmer? Why did you reject my application!?


Only takes one physical threat from a rejected candidate with a bruised ego to never want to provide people with feedback again. The returns are just not there.


Seriously, there's zero upside for them providing feedback. Just potential liability. I don't understand why this got so many upvotes...


You would take it personally? I would just call the cops on the reject then move on with my life.


I think this is a very American perspective. This isn't a major concern in many parts of the world.


We use https://interviewing.io/ a lot, and there is ample opportunity to provide both structured and unstructured feedback from the candidate to the interviewer, and from the interviewer to the candidate. This seems like a better model than recruiters filtering the information.


>Cos that would have a discrimination lawsuit written all over it. HR and/or Recruiters also never gives candid feedback for the same reason. Because if they do, someone will eventually sue the company for discrimination.

Out of curiosity, is it just one of those inevitabilities or is it really easy to get in a bind with discrimination in rejecting (or firing I'd imagine) someone?


I just made a spreadsheet I added to over time to track this type of stuff for myself. It is interesting to see the process in a graph [0]. Would be really interesting to see this data aggregated for industries or specific positions.

[0] https://i.imgur.com/NnzXT6K.jpg


Wow that's a lot of applications. I am actually shocked. How come? Are you not getting the jobs or are you striving for the perfect position? Were all those applications hand crafter for each position?


This was for my first job out of college. I just chalked it up to only having three internships and no real work experience. For jobs I found especially interesting I would adjust resume headings and the contents of my cover letter. The financial analyst market in LA is quite saturated, evidently, and people would rather hire MBAs with no experience than undergrads. The other problem was that many firms' HR departments do not understand the difference between "financial analyst" and "accountant," which is significant.

Most of the interviews came from younger tech firms, which were more lenient (and also willing to hire less experienced individuals due to budget constraints).


His numbers track closely to mine when I had only an unrelated career behind me.

300~ applications. ~25 actual rejections. ~15 phone interviews. ~5 onsites. ~1 accepted.

It felt both necessary and successful, considering the junior dev market is flooded and treacherous.


When I last applied for jobs, I had ~20 years experience. I was 8 for 10 after the phone screen, and 4 offers out of 8 onsites. I didn't apply to a single company, I just responded to recruiters reaching out for me, and I arranged all my phone screens and onsites within a 6 week window. I'm planning on changing jobs next June, so I already have about 5 recruiters ready to contact me around April of 2019.


Rather different role at a different time but my early job applications were largely spray and pray. (Though I dd get my second full-time job out of grad school through an on-campus interview.)

Since then though, it's been basically through specific personal connections with essentially no applications as such.


I think those numbers are pretty standard for a junior dev role. So many new grads competing for those jobs.


Your numbers and css’s Numbers line up pretty closely to my last job hunt, and I’m fairly senior. Around 150-200 applications, 10% communicated rejection, 5% phone screen, the rest no reply. Seems about right.


They might have attended a dev bootcamp. The one I went to required you send out 20-30 applications a week until you got a job.


Answered in my other comment.


I ended up creating a "Find a Job" board in Trello. It works pretty well but it's hard to get data out of it. How long did I take to get a job? How many interviews did I have? What was the average time between submitting an application and getting contacted by the company?


The graph is interesting, sure. Is it useful? Did you learn anything about your process that you used to improve?


Believe me I've done that too :)


Has anyone else had a hell of a time finding a job in SF lately? It seems like there is so much competition now I literally can't even get an in-person interview. It's a total shift from 5 years ago when people were begging you to come in after a quick phone screen. Now it's nothing but automated responses with Triplebyte quizzes and getting ghosted.


I don't know what level you're at, but my experience (from both sides of the hiring process) is that the market is completely saturated for junior engineers. Many companies are primarily/exclusively hiring seniors, and the market there is still _very_ demand-heavy.

Beyond that, the usual stuff applies: you'll have an easier time if you have name-brand schools/companies/open-source projects on your resume, or if you have connections inside the company.


I haven't been looking lately, but in the past year, I had no problem getting interviews at FAANG, some unicorns, and some series C/D startups. I didn't even have to apply for several of the positions, a recruiter reached out to me.


Automated responses with quizzes are really an odd trend, really midsized startups should provide a response from a human most of the time, not ghosting or quizzes.


I'm on the east coast and I've gotten hit up by many of the big companies in SF this month (even with the option to allow recruiters to contact me off on linkedin).


I haven't felt this at all. What companies are you applying to? How much experience do you have?


>I haven't felt this at all. What companies are you applying to? How much experience do you have?

Mostly mid-size startups. I have 5 years experience as a front end dev, but being self taught with no degree I look pretty bad on paper.

It's never been a problem for me in the past, but it seems like the market for mid-level self taught developers is drying up.


From Miami, but in the exact same boat. 4 yrs xp, FE, self-taught, having trouble for the first time finding a startup gig.


I have the same qualifications as you. And the same struggle getting my foot in the door. I used Triplebyte and it was fantastic. If you can pass their interview it's worth doing.


Why?

What actual benefits did you receive?


I’m a developer and also have a recruitment consultancy for engineers. Don’t listen to what everyone says about monetisation, there are literally dozens of ways you can make money from this.

Super awesome you’re getting so many upvotes! It seems like a very useful product. I’ll aim to send some more detailed feedback from an industry perspective separately.

Again - really nice work!


I have been doing this recently with AirTable using a template I got via twitter thread: https://twitter.com/kwuchu/status/1032007263026864128

I've found it helps me keep much better track and stay on top of where everything is with recruiters.


Great idea! I guess you are open to input if you post here:

1) afterInterview is a bit of an ugly name. Maybe shorten it to afterview?

2) How do you intend to monetize? I can only think of what u/WestCoastJustin said: data. But then you'd need to be more open about that in these days I think, people are more suspicions, especially the one who are first-movers.

2a) if not data, make users pay for your services. Maybe on a monthly basis - but you would need to implement that right away, bc later it'll be hard.

0) Good luck!


Monthly payments has the same conflicted incentive issue that paid dating sites have: success is ultimately the loss of a customer.


True! Never thought about that. Indeed conflicting.


All my job searches have been fairly intensive, switching between a notes file of some kind or a spreadsheet-alike and dozens of browser tabs (job req pages for companies I'm interested in, tabs of research on each company, etc).

Conversely, whenever I'm trying to get real work done on my phone I feel like I'm looking at and using the internet through a drinking straw. The interface just doesn't have enough bandwidth.

However, maybe there's a crop of people who don't feel this way and actually prefer phone apps? I'm definitely not going to tell these folks they're "doing it wrong", but they're ignoring at least some segment of the market if they only have a phone app.


I have similar thoughts. Years ago I had a big job search, and over a few weeks had more than 80 applications out - had a job posting page, some notes, etc. I kept track in a spreadsheet, but it was bothersome.

Later when I start freelancing (years later) I put together a tool, wrapped it in a dotcom - appliedto.com, then later a slightly more generic version - outreachto.com. Wanted to do email 'send as', and got bit hung up on making that work well (at the time, yahoo and web outlook were just PITA non-starters - I've done a bit more with outlook now and it's a bit better).

I've considered revisiting this service, but could never quite figure out any monetization. As others have mentioned, people who are looking for work are often cash strapped (or at least more mindful). Making it in to a bit more a a 'job crm' maybe...? Freemium, with sample cover letters and templates?

What I needed this for was for keeping track of which versions of resumes I'd sent to people, having multiple versions already written and uploaded, and email templates that I could save and reuse.

I don't really want to be hijacking this thread, but... at the same time, any feedback on these from the gallery would be appreciated. (and... no doubt there's some security stuff I need to revisit soon - it's an older codebase).


I believe the big challenge for any job seeker is to get the interview in the first place. I'd love to see an app that could provide me with insights about my resume, and how it stands against the type of job I'm looking for.


Jobscan (https://www.jobscan.co/) might be helpful. It scores your resume based on a pasted job description.


This is super-compelling.... if you can add a lightweight ATS on the other side.

It is very hard for recruiters to remember all the people that they have interviewed. But if you give them that functionality, you have the potential to kill all the ATS out there by going from the interviewee side of things.

Kind of like Github for interviews!


That would be nice!

Candidates asking permission to audio record their interviews and upload on the site as a portfolio. Recruiters listen to those interviews and can be much more assertive on their recommendations!


I had a business that was a modern ATS. Then lever.co [1] came along, and I don't even think their business survived on the software alone as they had to transition into a full service recruiting/hiring company (but I could be wrong about this).

[1] https://www.lever.co/


thanks for the comment! I thought about something like that too and believe there's something I can do on that side.


I've been noodling on this product idea for about 6 months now, but never gotten around to building it. Drat, but congrats on doing it.

One killer feature I would propose is to help candidates weigh up multiple offers; salary, equity, commute time, enjoyment, advancement, etc.


Don't let someone first to market halt your project. Use his product gather your feedback and make it better.


Is that really a killer feature though? Seems more like a series of conversations with those important people in your life vs. Some sort of optimization algorithm.

And rather than have competition destroy your idea, take it as one data point towards validation.


And are people really getting that many offers that they have a hard time deciding? Usually there's some chemistry with the company....


Thank you for the comment! one of my colleagues suggested the same feature today :) I think that might be a killer feature too.


Wondering what companies from FANG give feedback. I am specifically not allowed to give any for HR reasons. There are situations where it can be very frustrating but it's what it is.


Or, any company in general. We're not a FANG, and we don't give interviewees feedback after they interview, even when they write us (as a hiring manager). And our HR recruiters likely give an innocuously bane reason for not hiring the person.


yeah I only said FANG because the examples were all FANG... but come to think of it it's just common sense legally.


Amazon doesn't give any due to HR policies. Google gave me some general feedback, like what I was lacking in during on-site coding interview that got me knocked out.


Great idea. I am jealous. I thought of this exact same thing. The issue is: how to make money? It is difficult to charge the broke job seeker [ironically, it wont be the guy flush with offers using this app - it will be the guy struggling]. On the other hand, it is difficult to charge the recruiters unless you have the linkedin type volume. Even if you do, recruiters wont like the quality since these interviewees are struggling so hard they need an app to track failed interviews.


The app looks nice but I hate doing any kind of data entry on an app.

You might consider making a web based version, then it could be accessed on desktop as well.


Wait.How does one give feedback to the interviewer? Thought even as the interviewee, getting post interview feedback is not your prerogative. Am I missing something here. Also someone posted this a while back essentially for the same purpose of tracking various interviews and feedbackshttps://jobhound.io


Honest feedback: I don't see how this succeeds without integration with existing applicant workflows. The cognitive overhead of another app to store data, manually update status etc is high.

If e.g. Monster or Indeed launched this as a value-add to existing functionality it would be big, but i'm not going to make the effort you're asking for in isolation.


I think this is geared more for the applicant than the employer. So ATS integration really shouldn't be a priority.


Any plans on adding an ability to import job applications? I would love to switch to your product but unfortunately I already have a Google Sheets document with about 60+ applied companies and 50 rejected. If there were a way for me to at least import the company names that would make it easier to switch.


Getting an interview is the biggest hurdle. I can usually count the number of interviews with my fingers, at least from the companies I'd want to work for - that is, it's usually under 5, most often 2-3, sometimes just 1.

Definitely don't need another login/app to manage them.


I see you are in a luxury position.


Thank you all for the comments and upvotes! I really appreciated it! Didn't really expect this to happen at all lol.

I will come back tonight to answer all your questions but my lunch break is over and I need to go back to work rn :)


Interesting idea!

I'm also curious about the business model here. It seems like if you were to aggregate a certain set of metrics and then have each use rate each company for a given position, you could put together some sort of metric which might be useful a) to the companies that are doing the interviewing and/or b) to other folks that are applying for the same position.

Curious to see where you go with this...


I find this to be a rather strange idea.

If I want feedback on my interview then I simply contact the interviewer and ask for feedback.

When interviewing with many places simultaneously the only differentiator that has determined job acceptance is the speed with which an offer letter was presented after the interview and the employer benefits.


Some feedback: - you should use a link in your confirmation email; nobody wants to copy/paste a confirmation code from an email. - why do I have to give my first and last name just to list my interviews? - location would be helpful. I’m in France; I don’t really care about the response rate of US companies


Seems like Microsoft Excel or Google sheets does the same job or am I missing something here?


So many apps just seem like Excel with a better UI.


Dude,

1) how do I delete my account? Pretty sure GDPR won't like not having a button for it.

2) you should probably test the UI a bit more with different settings. The top buttons, on my iphone 6s with bold text enabled, don't fit on one line.


Hey, let’s chat about this. I built a product that is related/similar!


I need the same stuff but for managing agents and apartments I’m looking at.

Creating these kind of tools are really good ideas for disrupting the markets. Because once you get the users you get everything.


This honestly seems so overkill. Just use a spreadsheet?


“See what companies give interview feedback to their candidates for last 30 days”

This should be ‘gave’ or ‘have given’ instead of ‘give’.


Tbf, are there many people who use their phone for applying to jobs? Why not a desktop app? What as your thought process?


While you're probably correct right now, one way that he could begin monetizing it is becoming a recruiting platform that's largely phone based. I think more and more people are moving towards doing most things on mobile platforms, so why not job interviews?


I tried to to use the app but cannot, since it does not accept my e-mail address which contains a + sign


It can't accept email address that does not end with .com. My email address ends with .space.


Great idea for an app, not sure how you can make money with this though.


Side note: very nice graphics. Where did you have them designed?


Yo. Let’s chat about this. I’ve built something very related!


Side note: very nice graphics. Where did you design them?


Stay focused through the next economic recession.

asien 3 months ago [flagged]

Would love to use this , but I’m sure this is one those many rushed applications with the startup mentality.

Personal and Senstitive data is probably stored in a totally unencrypted manner and developers have unrestricted access to production.

We’ve seen what happens in terms of security when you give something like Firebase to startups « developers »[0]

Love the concept , but I Care more about privacy.

[0] https://searchsecurity.techtarget.com/news/252443616/Unprote...


This comment breaks the Show HN guidelines. Please read them: https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html.

A fairer way to post something about this would have been to ask a question about privacy concerns.


Do you have evidence or are you just being unnecessarily unkind?


I wouldn't be so blunt as the parent, but I think their comment demonstrates something that would be foolish to ignore if you're a potential business founder: credibility matters, and SaaS has a major credibility problem when it comes to personal data protection. If you're collecting personal data - and especially if you are targeting a market that is particular aware of how widespread data beaches are - it would behoove you to include your data protection approach in your sales pitch.


Honestly I'm not so sure. People apparently use Grammarly.


Having evidence of this particular app having poor security practices prior to expressing concerns is an impossibly high standard. The comment is clearly based on a pattern of early stage apps putting security second. I think it's fair to ask early stage apps handling highly sensitive info to at least show some evidence that they are following secure data handling practices. This is a good HN conversation to have, not unnecessarily negative.

So that would be my feedback to the poster: Detail how you ensure privacy and secure data. That should be a major part of the product description for this type of app at the outset.


> Detail how you ensure privacy and secure data. That should be…

I assume the app will target American users, but it could be useful to think through the privacy and data security with the EU GDPR — where that "should" becomes a "must".

I'll just copy a few bits, but the articles here are the most relevant:

https://gdpr-info.eu/art-13-gdpr/ : "Provide the data subject with ... the purposes of the processing for which the personal data are intended as well as the legal basis for the processing ... the recipients or categories of recipients of the personal data, if any"

Is the data shared with anyone?

https://gdpr-info.eu/art-30-gdpr/ : "...shall maintain a record of ... the envisaged time limits for erasure of the different categories of data ... a general description of the technical and organisational security measures ..."

How long is data kept after the interviews are completed?

https://gdpr-info.eu/art-32-gdpr/ : "The controller and processor shall take steps to ensure that any natural person acting under the authority of the controller or the processor who has access to personal data does not process them except on instructions from the controller, unless he or she is required to do so by Union or Member State law."

Can your developers access private data?


The next comment down is also about privacy, but in the context of business model instead of security. Maybe people (in our niche, at least) are starting to prioritize their data more than ever.


I don't think it's an unfair assessment about potential or actual security. And it's a fair critique. Whether it's a legitimate concern based on this particular implementation is another matter, but they are correct in that work history is probably sensitive personal history, perhaps not secretive. And there is evidence attached to the OP post - it's the link marked [0].


This thread is about this specific app/idea/team. It is not about potential security problems in general. The parent could have just asked "what is the security and privacy?" rather than make baseless assumptions and accusations. So no, it is not a fair critique without more information and I don't see how an article about unsecured Firebase databases is related given the current information. I can give you a similar article about unsecured, internet accessible Elasticsearch servers, but does that mean the ones I run are unsecured? You could assume that if you want but that would be an incorrect assumption.


If I'm a customer in a domain where these are concerns though, each question you make me ask during my evaluation is a chance for me to quit doing the work and move on to something else that's less effort, like the competing product that pushes their security and privacy policies upfront as a product benefit.

So don't ask me to pull myself through your sales funnel, make the process easy by addressing my major concerns before i need to ask.


Yes! Great advice! That is exactly what Show HNs are for. Tell the founders how they can improve such as including security and privacy information in their marketing materials.


OP isn’t being unkind, it’s simply feedback. Not disrespect intended, but don’t be so sensitive:)


Hitchen's razor applies here: "What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

It's unfair to assume poor security practices. It's also ridiculous for a Show HN to be expected to meet a burden like "separation of access" when it's likely a person, singular, that has produced this app.


looks good but it's worrying it got approved by apple/app store (and some users) without a privacy policy


Can you explain which part of your website requires JavaScript so much as to make it inaccessible to those browsing with JS disabled?


Seconded. I appreciate javascript unnecessary sites. Although, if something really requires js im okay with it. Theres some demos i have on my personal site that straight uo require js which i think is fine


hirepool.io is pretty good too


why should I give them my data?


SCAM


Show HN: Selling shovels in a gold rush


Initial dating ought to be managed similarly... meet lots of people and filter down from there.




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