This does seem a bit too experimental to actually be useful.
Some vue based projects are actually nice and easy for beginners to be productive (like Nuxt), but the whole vue ecosystem has never clicked with me even after I toyed with it for at least 2 or 3 times.
The requirement for frontend has changed dramatically and now we need to handle entire UI flow, interactivity, data synchronization, and even some business logic like filtering and validations with JS, HTML and CSS.
There's no web app for air traffic controller yet, but pretty much everything else has a web app with a huge set of feature and non-feature requirements.
> The requirement for frontend has changed dramatically and now we need to handle entire UI flow, interactivity, data synchronization, and even some business logic like filtering and validations with JS, HTML and CSS.
What does it have to do with using Babel/Webpack and what not? it hasn't.
The DOM is plenty and enough to implement MVC on top of it without requiring 200 libraries from NPM. Developers have been writing complex GUI apps for more than 4 decades without the need for a specific framework, how did they manage to do so yet everybody needs some complex framework in the browser? no they don't. Most of these web apps are forms.
Now I'm not saying don't use react and whatever pipeline you are using. But downloading node and all these stuff isn't what a beginner should be exposed to. Beginners should learn basic principles of front-end development which includes the DOM.
Yes I think so. Why else would they require 1GB of space to install them and specific hardware to run them efficiently? As a matter of fact, they require rendering libraries from graphics card companies. The difference is that they use their own proprietary frameworks instead of open sourcing them.
> How many apps can boast about being as complex on the web? most of these web apps are forms.
Not a lot, but quite significant nontheless. For example google docs, office 365, Facebook, Amazon, and many cloud solutions for enterprise. I agree most of web apps out there are just fancy forms and don't really need any frameworks, but there are legitimate use cases for them.
Edit for your updated comment:
Yes, I fully agree that web developers should start from basics, not frameworks and libraries. Cheers.
If it doesn't sound incredibly painful your webapp isn't complicated enough to warrant a framework anyways.
I've been through the whole gamut -- pure JS, jQuery, Backbone, Angular1, and React. I love React because it's by far the most pleasant experience for my work. You would not get me to go back to pure JS over pain of death, it's just a non-starter for the types of apps we're building.
in order to render graphics. The DOM already gives you all that for free.
> For example google docs, office 365, Facebook, Amazon, and many cloud solutions for enterprise
Not even VSCode uses a specific framework, which demonstrate my point. Yes, they use Monaco editor for their text editor but this is a very specific library for a specific purpose, this isn't a generic view framework like react and co.
I think your argument is a bit flawed here. They don't use a generic framework for VSCode not because they don't need a framework, but probably because a generic framework is not good enough for handle the complexity on their level that they need to invent their own framework.
So, my point is:
Simple app, fancy forms: No framework should be required, just use VanillaJS, jQuery, or d3.js.
More complex apps that solves a generic problem (CRUD with heavy client side interactivity): Generic framework.
Extremely complex and specialized apps: Write your own framework.
You can checkout it here: (example) https://unpkg.com/@firstname.lastname@example.org/outra/pagina/
I had to ship a fork of Vue because the Vue mantainers won't accept the necessary changes to make this work.
Vue really requires you invest in its ecosystem a lot more to structure your entire frontend (and Nuxt even more so), whereas React feels and operates much more strictly as a JS library.
The basic benefit of Vue is that it comes with much of the React boilerplate already abstracted away behind syntactic sugar. But once you learn to do that yourself with React, it's no slower to start building. It just takes a longer learning curve to get to that point.
For me the React experience includes tons of bikeshedding over which accessories (routing, state management, etc) to pair it with and how to wire those up.
The Vue experience started simple and scaled up nicely as we reached the point that we needed more stuff, since there’s an official library for basically everything and it all works very nicely together.
It’s pretty subjective I guess but interesting how different development experiences can be.
This is React's biggest strength IMO, that it doesn't handle routing, state, etc. It just makes your UI a function of state. How an app needs to manage state can vary wildly, but it's all the same to React.
I use it for 3 years ...
I've just updated it, to make css scopable, and decided to release it to the public.
I've got a "big app", with more thant 50 components, with vuetify, vue-router & vuex, 2 websockets and a lot of fetch ... it works as expected (btw I've never used vue-cli/nodejs/webpack with them ;-)
"Sometimes you have to work with the tools you have, not the ones you want"