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Remember getting downvoted on Hackernews for pointing out that you don't trust their new image of "openness" and what not a month ago? People praising the new line of the new CEO and analysing that there would be nothing to fear from Microsoft anymore (github contret) - That didn't age too well...

Microsoft has always been described as a bunch of fairly independend divisions that hate each other. You can also see the split between groups in their products (for example how Explorer and the Kernel/API can't agree on what's a valid path. Explorer doesn't let you create files or folders starting with a dot despite that being legal, and can't show long paths that are legal).

I think Microsoft isn't set up in a way that allows to judge them uniformly. Trust the typescript team or the VSCode team seem warranted. I personally quite like what the Kernel team is doing ever since Windows NT. But the User-facing layer of Windows has made dodgy decisions for decades and has always favoured pushing an agenda over user-friendliness, with some successful usabilty pushes in between.

To evaluate Github the real question is how much upper management was involved in this feature, and how that might impact Github. That doesn't seem clear to me at all.

I trust Google less than Microsoft, for example.

I would put them on the same pedestal.

I deal with Microsoft a lot. They are back to 90s Microsoft mode. You should be skeptical of anything they say.

Me too, given that a big part of my job is done on MS stack.

Not all of us had a problem with 90s Microsoft mode.

Every time I have to deal with Android development chores I miss MS tooling.

From a technical side, 90s Microsoft was great. From a business/trust side, not so much.

Examples please? You're just making some unsubstantiated claim.

What makes you "trust" Microsoft in the first place? They are spying on users constantly with Windows 10 telemetry, they were an early part of the PRISM program with the NSA, they have been known to abuse their market power to push away competitors. What's to trust about them?

I stated that I trusted them more than Google, which are much worse at data harvesting, not that I fully trust them.

Using ChromeOS or Android with Googleplex as gateway for every mouse movement or click is tenfold worse than using Windows 10.

>Using ChromeOS or Android with Googleplex as gateway for every mouse movement or click is tenfold worse than using Windows 10.

Is it? Did somebody compile data on Android telemetry already? Anyway, ChromeOS is a wash, but you can always remove Google software from an Android installation (well, more like flash a new AOSP installation but eh) which is 100% worlds better than any Microsoft software offering, in my opinion.

Android turns on radio on its own for location services.


Flashing Android devices, the hobby for grandma when nothing worthwhile is showing on tv.

Yeah but that's the Firebase Messaging System, AKA Google Cloud Messaging, which doesn't exist in your phone if you flash a AOSP ROM.

Of course, for maximum privacy, an open source with minimal blobs ROM like Replicant would be much better. Shame 2011 era hardware in mobile land is so much relatively inferior to laptop land (e.g. X200 with Libreboot)

Again, you can't do this in Windows 10. The telemetry and "add-in apps" get installed again periodically after updates [0] last I checked

[0] https://www.resetera.com/threads/windows-10-keeps-reinstalli...

Neither can 99% of Android consumers.

Typical geek answer that regular consumers wouldn't understand a word of, neither want to void their guaranty in some shady computer store.

Why are you being so hostile? You're in HN, you're a geek too by default.

99% of Windows 10 users can't grok disabling telemetry and trawling deep into powershell script every update too. (Well, at least Microsoft doesn't think disabling excessive features to be warranty disabling, for now...)

What I discussed was how a proactive, technically competent user can wrestle Android back into having 0 Google telemetry and spying, which... Can't happen in Chrome OS, or say for example Windows Phone 10 (RIP).

Because as someone with experience in UI/UX for the common man, I dislike the way many geeks present technical solutions that are out of reach to those people.

These kind of solutions is one of the reasons why desktop Linux never really took off, rather Android, ChromeOS, Tizen and such, where the presence of the Linux kernel is a mere implementation detail, as it could be changed by any other POSIX like kernel without any difference on the user experience.

We should strive for solutions that work for everyone, not the tiny percentage of proactive, technically competent users that know about HN and XDA.

I understand what you mean, but I think it would be more correct to say "I don't distrust them as much as ...". None of these companies deserve a positive spin on "trust".

I don't know what the proper term is, but there's a certain trust of necessity at play. You have to pick some OS vendor to trust, or at least trust more than the others, because you need an OS.

Wouldn't it be nice to have software you didn't have to trust?

Is "openness" really a sufficiently specific attribute to either ascribe it or not ascribe it to one of those huge tech conglomerates?

They are all "open" where it suits them and closed where it doesn't. I think what we can observe is that these days it suits Microsoft to be open in more areas than it used to.

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

What does this have to do with openness?

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