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  			2080 Ti FE	RTX 2080 Ti	GTX 1080 Ti
  Price			$1,199		$999		$699
  GPU Architecture	Turing		Turing		Pascal
  Boost Clock		1635 MHz	1545 MHz	1582 MHz
  Frame Buffer		11 GB GDDR6	11 GB GDDR6	11 GB GDDR5X
  Memory Speed		14 Gbps		14 Gbps		11 Gbps
  Memory Interface	352-bit		352-bit		352-bit
  CUDA Cores		4352		4352		3584
  TDP			260W		250W		250W
  Giga Rays		10		10		?

  			2080 FE		RTX 2080	GTX 1080
  Price			$799		$699		$549
  GPU Architecture	Turing		Turing		Pascal
  Boost Clock		1800 MHz	1710 MHz	1733 MHz
  Frame Buffer		8 GB GDDR6	8 GB GDDR6	8 GB GDDR5X
  Memory Speed		14 Gbps		14 Gbps		10 Gbps
  Memory Interface	256-bit		256-bit		256-bit
  CUDA Cores		2944		2944		2560
  TDP			225W		215W		180W
  Giga Rays		8		8		?

			2070 FE		RTX 2070	GTX 1070 Ti	GTX 1070
  Price			$599		$499		$449		$399
  GPU Architecture	Turing		Turing		Pascal		Pascal
  Boost Clock		1710 MHz	1620 MHz	1607 MHz	1683 MHz
  Frame Buffer		8 GB GDDR6	8 GB GDDR6	8 GB GDDR5	8 GB GDDR5
  Memory Speed		14 Gbps		14 Gbps		8 Gbps		8 Gbps
  Memory Interface	256-bit		256-bit		256-bit		256-bit
  CUDA Cores		2304		2304		2432		1920
  TDP			175W		185W		180W		150W
  Giga Rays		6		6		?		?

Those prices are Nvidia's OC Founder's Editions. The non-OC versions are actually:

RTX 2080 Ti: $999

RTX 2080: $699

RTX 2079: $499

Source: https://i.imgur.com/LrUitua.png

Thank you! Updated.

The 2080 TDP seems to be 215W rather than 285W (source: https://www.anandtech.com/show/13249/nvidia-announces-geforc...).

Are you sure the FE TDPs are different from the reference spec? I haven't seen that mentioned anywhere else.

Ack, I can't edit my post again. Good catch. I'll message a mod and see if they can update it.

OK, I just found the FE TDPs listed on the NVidia site (2080 FE: 225W).

I assume the OC versions simply have a bit toggled in the VBIOS?

Probably better binning.

No, you're free to do your own OC. But how much OC your chip will be able to handle is unknown. It's called silicon lottery.

2080 Ti FE, 1259 Euros. All US companies follow this simple formula: $ to Euro 1:1, add 25% and then add 50-60 Euros for Free Shipping.

The premium for EU market is just about the amount of VAT. In US there's a sales tax for that which isn't included in MSRP.

Prices must include VAT in Europe, which seems to account for that 20% plus you’re referring to.

But that's about covered by the difference in exchange rate.

A few years ago prices where mostly 1:1 in USD before taxes and EUR after taxes. So the situation got worse.

I think the main reason is not that anything makes selling the cards there more expensive, but simply that they try to charge more.

Exchange rates fluctuate, often it’s been ~1.05:1 which is a long way from covering the 20% VAT. Add some uncertainty, stronger consumer protection laws, and smaller markets and the price difference is relatively small.

> the price difference is relatively small

Where in reality there shouldn't be any, since sending stuff across the pond costs nothing as seen in products like bananas. At least I live in place which has only 8% VAT, so prices look a bit more like US (but still higher for no good reason)

Sending stuff across the pond is expensive because when importing stuff you pay VAT + import fees on top of what you already paid.

VAT I get - everybody pays it, but if company imports stuff (especially local branch/official distributor), they should do import paperwork - are there any additional fees included?

Same or even better price then! Still, that's a lot of money for a card.

It's the 2-year warranty, translation of manuals and a need to have office in all major EU markets due to different legal stuff that makes it all pricier.

You dont need an office in every EU market, thats the thing about the EU, thats it one big singular (or connected) market, and if you can sell your stuff in one EU country, you can sell it in all of them. (very few restricstions apply)

Don't forget taxes. US prices are typically listed without tax included, whereas I'm guessing the European ones include VAT.

Most probable explanation. 19% in Germany. So, $1199 in US, ~$1443 in Europe. 1199 * 1.19 = ~$1427. $1439 with Austrian VAT of 20%, but price is still 1259 Euro, so it seems nice. Seems about right.

All prices in the EU must be final (hence incl. all taxes). Yes the ones in the US is pre sale/use tax.

Yeah; it's illegal to list prices for consumer products ex. VAT. If you're b2b you're allowed list ex-VAT but you are required to be very clear about what you're doing.

> need to have office in all major EU markets

So, one?

Either you're missing a smiley or you're serious. You can't be serious.

So you expect the things he mentioned are provided for free?

Which things exactly? Manuals translations is SO DAMN EXPENSIVE. They have to sell, what a dozen or so cards to get those losses? Or 7 european (EU) offices of which one is also a dev center vs 15 US offices (of which one is HQ/dev)? Or stock which comes to both from Taiwan?

In any case, it seems VAT is the explanation and in that case price is without premium, even great compared. Still expensive.

2-year warranty easily.

The EU does enforce a "2-year warranty", but it's not what you think. (Speaking as a German:) When you want to replace a broken product under the mandated warranty, then:

- In the first 6 months after purchase, the merchant must replace the product unless they can prove the defect was not present at purchase.

- After 6 months, the burden of proof reverses, and the customer must prove that the defect in question was already present at purchase.

In practice, whatever party has the burden of proof usually doesn't bother. So in effect, "6-month warranty" is a much more realistic description of this 2-year warranty.

(The fine print: Many vendors offer their own voluntary warranty on top of the mandated one. And I don't know if the rules are different in other EU countries.)

> In practice, whatever party has the burden of proof usually doesn't bother.

In practice, I've never had to prove anything within 2 years of purchase. Might be a difference between Germany and other EU countries, but somehow I doubt that.

This is probably how it is across the EU. Why antagonize your customers unnecessarily by forcing them to jump through hoops when your product fails in less than 2 years? That just leads to bad PR and reduced customer satisfaction and thus lower trust and sales.

They benefit in the perceived sense of reliability of a 2 year warranty. Why buy a product if it's going to fail in 6 months and you can't get it replaced, when the competitor is more likely to treat you fairly.

Stuff very rarely breaks in the second year. I'd bet the vast majority of warranty claims are within the first year, which is legally mandatory in every jurisdiction of note.

You're way, way overestimating the cost-per-item for everything mentioned there.

At NVidia's level, nearly so. They ship on the order of 50 million desktop GPUs each year. Legal hours, real estate, or translators may seem expensive, but when you count the number of graphics cards that would be required to pay for them it's not even in the ballpark of 50 million.

The warranties do cost something because they add significant risk/cost against each incremental unit, I will grant you that.

Regulations like these have a disproportionate effect relative to volume. NVidia would probably have most of those things even in the absence of the regulations, a couple guys in a garage would certainly not.

Have you heard about the EU single market? "Single" here is marketing speak for "one".

Your TDP figures are off

* 2080 TI FE is 260W

* 2080 TI is 250W


Fixed, thanks!

Wow, were the founders editions really that cheap on the last gen? Guess the inflated prices from all the crypto mining really threw me off.

Yeah, they were.

NVidia's lesson from the Crypto-boom seems to be: "Some gamers are willing to pay >$1000 for their cards".

EDIT: To be fair, NVidia is still on 14nm or 12nm class lithography (I forgot which one). So the increased die size of these new chips will naturally be more expensive than the 10xx series. Bigger chips cost more to produce after all. So if you fail to shrink the die, the economics demand that you increase the price instead.

Still, we all know that NVidia has fat margins. We also know that they overproduced the 1080 series during the Cryptoboom, and that they still want to sell all of their old cards. If they push the prices down too much, then no one will buy the old stuff.

they overproduced the 1080 series

If they did, 1080Ti wouldn't be "out of stock" on their website.

NVidia doesn't make many cards. They mostly make chips. The "Founders edition" are an exception, but the mass market products are made by EVGA, MSI, and other such companies.

The fire-sales on EVGA 1080 Ti chips make it darn clear that there's too many 1080Ti and 1080 cards out there.



Second: these RTX 2080 chips have been in the rumor mill since June, maybe earlier. The fact that NVidia delayed until now is proof enough. NVidia has been stalling on the release of the RTX series.

Firesale? EVGA 1080 Ti FTW3 prices on Amazon right now are more than I paid for that exact same card in 2017... Am I missing something?

Doesn't this mean that EVGA or MSI overproduced them, and NVIDIA sold everything they made?

With the explanation I said earlier, yes.

But there are alternative sources for what is going on. In particular:


>> Nvidia previously had forecast sales for cryptocurrency chips for the fiscal second quarter ended July 29 of about $100 million. On Thursday it reported actual revenue of only $18 million.

So its not entirely clear who overproduced things per se, but what we DO know is that NVidia was expecting $100 Million cards to be sold to cryptominers between April and July. Only $18 million were sold.

In any case, it is clear that there's a lot of 10xx cards laying around right now. And NVidia clearly wants to extract as much value from current stock as possible. Pricing the 20xx series very high above the 10xx series is one way to achieve what they want.

Could you cite this? I've heard the opposite: that Nvidia didn't chase after the crypto market /because/ a crash would cause problems (if they overproduced). Besides, they make plenty of money everywhere else. Furthermore, Intel has charged (edit: consumers) $1000+ for a chip before. The market will bear it, crypto or no crypto.

Intel has $10k xeons but that's no consumer grade hardware.


EDIT: Seems to be a citation from: https://seekingalpha.com/article/4182662-nvidia-appears-gpu-...



>> Nvidia previously had forecast sales for cryptocurrency chips for the fiscal second quarter ended July 29 of about $100 million. On Thursday it reported actual revenue of only $18 million.

That suggests that NVidia has $82+ million worth of 10xx series GPUs laying around somewhere.

That might not be a winning strategy if you have real competition though.

Rumor is that AMD's Navi is but a minor update next year. "Next Generation" is 2020 and beyond for AMD.

So unfortunately, NVidia can bet on a lack of competition for the near future. NVidia can always drop prices when Navi comes out (if it happens to be competitive). But it seems like they're betting that Navi won't be competitive, at least with this pricing structure.

It’s very strange how AMD reveals so much of their roadmap.

I dunno. We know Intel's roadmap: Icelake next year at 10nm (with AVX Instructions), Tiger Lake (10nm optimization), Sapphire Rapids (7nm) in 2021, etc. etc.

It seems like if you want people to buy your products, letting them know about them and the features they'll support (ex: AVX512) so the hype can build is a good thing.

> and the features they'll support (ex: Spectre v14)


About 4 years ago Nvidia also used to publish a "roadmap" that showed a somewhat fake performance versus architecture plot. They stopped doing that after Volta.

There’s a huge difference between saying “we will have something in the future” (duh) and saying “we have absolutely nothing for the next year and a half.”

The latter gives your competitor the freedom to ask any price the market will accept without having to worry about a competitor undercutting this price in some near future.

When did they say the latter? It's more of just not giving out the codenames anymore.

> When did they say the latter?

At CES, AMD said that they'd only have Vega 20 coming up and it was only for the datacenter and AI. And that Navi would be for 2019.


That's like giving a blank check to your competitor, saying "Feel free to set prices anyway you want, you're not going to be bothered by us."

Balance between area, yields and tooling - a mature process with established tooling and strong yields can offset some of the additional wafer costs required by larger area.

The grid doesn't have any 10xx founder edition prices.

I paid $699 for my 1080TI FE card in early 2017.

Where do you get $399 for GTX 1070? Wikipedia claims $379 and I paid $374.


The approximate Giga Rays for the 1080TI was given in the presentation somewhere around 1 giga ray. :)

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