I solidly regret the 2017 version. I've had one keyboard replacement already (that required the logic board to be replaced, seriously). Since then, I've already lost two keycaps. I've been ordering replacements online because they wanted me to ship it out for repair.
My 2015 Macbook is being used daily by a friend and is still in perfect shape. Worst thing that happened with that one is that I wore the letters off some of the keys.
My next laptop will probably not be a mac.
I was very skeptical of Windows as a development environment so bought the 8GB version as mainly a secondary computer/screen and notepad when doing work in cafes alongside my Macbook. I'll probably end up selling it and getting a the 15inch 16gb version. My Surface has only recently dethroned my MacBook as my daily driver after spending time to set it up properly. Also once you get used to a touchscreen it feels unnatural to not have one.
Also, the FN MBP hardware hasn't been upgraded at all like the TB ones were, so the CPU is one gen earlier and thus dual core, while keyboard flaws remain since it's a non-fixed keyboard (the one without the rubber thingies)
Here is a link from Apple that says all of their Macbook Pro models have T2 chips from 2018 onward.
But I still may be wrong though where did you read that the MBP without a touch bar doesn't have a T2 chip?
For example, the only way to get a slider to adjust display brightness was opening the OS display settings. At least that was the case the last time I tried it.
It's not a slider but it does the job well.
That said overall the tablet experience on Windows 10 is not ready for prime time. I get weirdness with the on-screen keyboard as well as quirks with Explorer and so on.
Yeah, you aren't the only one. They are seriously throwing away all the goodwill and reputation they'd built up over the past 20 years, over features no one is asking for like the touch bar and a ridiculously short key throw.
I have a 2017 and use it mostly with an eternal keyboard and monitors but I am shocked when I use the built in keyboard. It is really bad to type on -- all for what? A few fractions of an inch in thickness?
I had a first gen MacBook 12 and was ok with the horrible keyboard given its purpose of maximum portability. But on a desktop replacement / primary machine? What the hell were they thinking?
On this keyboard, 50% of the time when I type a single quote I hit the return key. Makes programming comically bad. It's just a couple of steps off typing on a touch screen at this point. (Which, I fear, is their endgame.)
Other joys of my 2017 (15, maxed out except for the absurdly expensive second TB of SSD):
1. (Un)plugging external monitors will crash the window server
2. Kernel panics -- usually related to IB in Xcode.
3. Unresponsive power key
4. Fingerprint reader that fails without any feedback
5. Serious hacking required to run external monitors in HiDPI mode
6. No more touch typing for the media keys, escape key
I'm professionally tied into the Apple ecosystem to a degree that it would be hard for me to leave, but I'm really unhappy with Apple these days. They seem to live in a fantasy world of unnecessary aesthetic goals and are alienating the small but extremely vocal community that have championed their products.
- Rock solid stability, uptimes of months (until I reboot to upgrade the kernel). I've never had a kernel panic in over a decade of use.
- No problems with WiFi, sleep, printing or monitor hotplugging (dual wide-screen, displayport MST).
Linux is tweaked, optimised and hardened by so many people and organisations, it is seriously fast and robust. The various desktop GUIs available have also matured a lot over the last ten years.
For any developer of server-side software (which likely runs on Linux), it simply makes more sense to develop on a Linux desktop.
You need to give Linux distros a few months to become mature enough to run flawlessly on newer hardware. I recall having displayport issues when I installed Fedora 22. Aside from that case, I can't remember the last time I've had issues.
I’ll even go so far as to say that I don’t mind the Touch Bar. But I rarely used media / fn keys to begin with and use C-[ for ESC where I can (e.g, vim). Often when I do use the Touch Bar it is to perform an action that replaces mouse / keyboard gestures (a plus, for me). Do not get me wrong though, the Touch Bar also displays a lot of useless information.
I’m not sure if I’d want fn keys on my next laptop (a fair number of my desktop keyboards don’t even have them), but realize other people’s workflows likely utilize them more.
What I would love is a modern, low profile, programmable mechanical keyboard though!
As a graphic designer, I used to be 100% windows -- and even somewhat against the hype of apple products. A friend had an old 2008 macbook pro collecting dust. I figured I'd try out OSX for a time, purely in an effort to fix her laptop. I fell in love with it and picked up the 2013 a few months later.
As time goes on, I don't doubt that we'll see the 2015 maintain its resale value.
You won’t regret Surface, fantastic hardware and W10 is not nearly as bad as the haters say, esp. with WSL now. I’m a switcher from MBP myself and I am very happy with the decision.
My MBP is luckily the last decent one (MBP 2015) and it has 16 GB DDR3 and 256 GB SSD. However it does have an Intel GPU, and only 2,2 GHz quad core i7.
Since I'm on 400 cycles at about 5% battery loss and a few minor but annoying damages on the screen I'm gonna get the latter repaired. Problem is I'm not sure how they got there in the first place. So I'm not sure how to prevent it. And the time to get such fixed is withering away. Tick tock, 2015 was 3 years ago.
We have been suffering from the same MacBook Pro keyboard issues for 3 years, and the latest 2018 just released still has that keyboard problem. And to add insult to injury T2 now causes panic every now and then.
Each period was very unique.
Best desktop environment for people who want a very good looking desktop is Deepin, and the Manjaro Community Edition with Deepin has been rock stable, very fast and very beautiful for me during the last few months I've been using it. Highly recommended.
You don't need a MacBook anymore for things to just work and be great looking.
I currently own a maxed out 2017 15" model. The control and "H" buttons don't work. So I am using an external keyboard.
I could get them replaced, but service will take three weeks (due to high demand) and they have to have the actual laptop the entire time.
I returned to the States 2 weeks ago and took my MBP into an Apple store. The one nice thing I can say was that I was able to book an appointment online, drop my MBP off at the store, and 2 days later my repaired laptop arrived at my front door. That experience was at least more pleasant than I expected.
The high resale value of macbooks doesn’t do you any good when you realize you should keep your previous laptop around because your new one will likely break.
I will definitely be using an external keyboard when possible from now on. Sheesh.
Hell, my Thinkpad T420 had complete manufacturer created instructions on how to replace the display and keyboard so I could to it myself after the warranty runs out.
I’ve had friends with HP, Dell, etc, laptops ship them off and wait a week to hear what is wrong and give them an estimate. And they usually had to ship it themselves. I had an Apple repair and it took less than a week with virtual no wait right by my house.
Say what you will about their keyboard problems but people were envious of my repair experience.
At least Lenovo offers that in some of their models, you may be charged extra, though, if you want onsite warranty, may depend on market. This summer my space bar started to misbehave, created a ticket on Lenovo site, next day a guy arrived to my home and spend about half an hour to disassemble my laptop and replace the keyboard.
No, I am not envious on your repair experience.
Lenovo refused to replace it.
And these laptops are still cheaper than Apples.
Prior to this, I haven't seriously used an MBP since my '07-ish MBP died, but I can say there were no such issues with that.
In any cases sometimes they put you through to Australia or Singapore representative, but my god they treat you like dirt.
And the funny thing is? They continue to buy from Apple because they cant be bothered to leave the ecosystem and their work depends on it.
Last year the touch bar debacle started and I also wasn't happy with the 16GB memory limitation when others were offering 32GB. Also I need to do a lot of Windows and boot camp isn't very good on MBPs; the trackpad doesn't work much better than a normal trackpad and the fans go wild.
So I made a deal with the devil and switched to a 1080p 32GB Xeon ThinkPad and it's about twice as thick but works fine and has a really decent keyboard. I also read a book by the ThinkPad design team and I feel that they really care about doing the right thing. So that's who I identify with now more than Apple.
I'm watching Apple slowly (and presumably deliberately) further alienate their user base year over year with the touch bar, worse keys, refusal to implement touch, and awful Windows drivers, so that one day they can say, "Well it's not worth it anymore" and stop producing it and focus in iPad/iPhone where all the money is.
It's pretty sad stuff.
My 2012 is decent, but 2013 - 1015 MBPs are the best.
At least the last time I took it in, the guy replaced it on the spot in 15 minutes while I waited. Every other time they've needed to keep the device for a week to replace the cable... I've had a lot of downtime with this machine.
MacBook Pro Hard Drive Cable Failure - Free fix and preventative maintenance - Question mark
I've still got a month left on my AppleCare, but once that expires I'll give it a try. Thank you!
I think the only issue will be if I need to use XCode, which tends to be bound to the latest OS.
What precedent do you have for believing that to be true? The only time Apple has done that in the past is major platform changes (aka PowerPC and later 32bit CoreDuos). Unless Apple shifts to ARM (which is easily a couple years out at best) or Intel comes out with a 128bit processor (which isn’t even remotely on the roadmap), I’d say you are safe for at least another five years, even if those shifts do happen.
There are aftermarket GPUs available, but it’s becoming an ongoing chore to keep the machine running the latest macOS features (needed new wifi card to support handoff and watch unlock etc).
New wifi, SSD, usb3 etc are relatively cheap. The new GPU is getting more expensive and is now actually blocking keeping up to date with major OS releases.
There is no other Mac I currently want to buy (desktop, my own display). MacMini is too underspecced, MacProvis about to be updated and aside from GPU isn’t really any better than my current MacPro - feels end of life and outdated from day 1, a non-starter for me.
So I’ll probably get a new GPU and hope that buys me another couple of years.
I've put in USB3, replaced the spinning disk with SSD, upgraded the WiFi and RAM, but haven't done the CPUs yet (already got dual 6 cores, so aside from a slight clock bump not much point).
My only concern is that the CPUs don't support something that the next major version will require, forcing a move off the MacPro 5,2 platform.
I also share your concern too. :(
I got the kit from OSX wifi:
Works well, had a bit of trouble getting unlock with watch working, but then all of a sudden started, so not sure what that was about, but been good since then.
Although I'm actually typing this on that very model.
It took some getting used to because I hadn't used Windows in a while, but overall it is working quite well.
With the 2016+ you got the option of colors, and it continued on its trajectory of slimming and losing ports.
I guess it's just me, but one thing I don't like about the 2015 is the Force Touch haptic trackpad. I think the 2014 might have actually been better because it had a real clickable trackpad (like the MacBook Air still has) with a really satisfying, snappy click. The Force Touch has such a weak click response that I find it hard to use accurately, even when you dial the click intensity to maximum.
The Surface Book 2 and Surface Laptop seem to get that right, they've still got snappy clickable trackpads & the key travel is like the old MacBook Pros before the new keyboards.
While using the 2015 model, I couldn't even imagine a laptop that would make it look and feel old-fashioned, but the 2017 one did it. After using it for a couple of weeks the 2015 mac feels bulky and its keyboard – kind of tight. The 2017 keyboard is so light that it takes just a little push by a finger to press, and I really feel that it allows me typing even faster.
I do agree that the keyboard is very easy to contaminate and a little crumb can make a key hardly usable, but it's easily fixed with a bottle of compressed air. Hopefully the measures Apple took in the latest revisions, utilising a kind of a rubber cushion for the keys, will improve the situation.
Now that said - I haven't experienced any kernel crashes yet, and I expect Apple to fix this in software, so I don't worry too much about it.
I don't have a use for the touch strip (in fact it gets in the way, as it can get accidentally touched), hate how easily the keyboard can gather detritus and get stuck, and dislike the bigger trackpad.
On the other hand, I dig the enhanced display (brightness, color), better speakers, and am excited about the powerful i9/32GB/2TB options in this years model.
Not sure what they'll do with the strip, but the keyboard has to be fixed.
If it was up to me, I'd replace the touch strip with actual buttons that have tiny OLED screens and can show pictures on them, and try to come up with a 100% water/dust proof keyboard system that still has proper travel.
>My next laptop will probably not be a mac.
That's not an option for me. Linux of all varieties still sucks on laptops (and for creative use, e.g. video and music), and Windows doesn't have the Unix underpinnings that I rely on, plus the OS and ecosystem is even worse (I've used Windows for 20+ years, and use Linux for work every day since 1998).
Sweeping statements like that are not helpful. The argument is far more nuanced. My wife's MacBookPro sometimes fails to wake from sleep, gets incredibly hot under load and doesn't support my displayport MST monitors, but I wouldn't claim that Mac laptops universally "sucked".
That's because some Mac laptops do those things and others don't (it's a combo of OS version, graphics card, chipset, model, and so on).
Whereas the problems I'm talking about regarding Linux are integral to the OS and ecosystem (and occur for everybody, regardless of setup).
Now, some of those problems might be non-issues for others since they never do X or Y things with their Linux laptops. But for me, that need to do X and Y those are problems. X and Y being for example heavy professional video and music editing.
But there are also lotsa things that are genuine problems in desktop Linux use, regardless of use cases. Having problem with a laptop sleep or getting the 3D acceleration / compositor to play properly etc, for example is not just some rare case on the wrong production run / OS combo, but a constant across distros and laptop brands, and usually the solution is to just carefully research and get a support combo (or just be lucky).
The same is true for Linux, which was my point.
> Having problem with a laptop sleep or getting the 3D acceleration / compositor to play properly etc,
I have absolutely no problems with sleep or 3D acceleration (e.g. Steam works fine), my hardware is very well known (ThinkPad). So I don't agree that these are examples of constant issues.
> Heavy professional video and music editing.
Granted Linux is weak here. But is a MacBookPro really that strong? I would use a Windows 10 ThinkPad P-series Xeon, 64GB RAM and a 4K display.
The Lenovo P1 looks good. 6 core, 64gb ram, 13 hours battery.
What will it be?
To be fair, I am not a fan of Macs but I haven't seen any good GNU/Linux laptops which have proper Wi-Fi, sleep, and battery usage out of the box. Do you have any recommendations?
Best laptop I've ever owned. Starting to roll them out at work too as Linux machines replacing new Macbook Pro's.
Exactly. These things add up. Fingerprint scanner won't work, battery life goes down. Occasionally, the device won't come out of sleep. I have used self-managed GNU/Linux on my laptop before and these issues bother you unless GNU/Linux development is your main job.
This is the issue that Apple is solving: if your laptop still works, Apple can't milk you for more money.
maybe it shouldn't even be a laptop
Laptops are portable. If you want something portable, it's gotta be a laptop.
@Apple @timcook my phone's battery discharged a little fast today. WHY ARE YOU HIDING FROM THE TRUTH ON THIS??? #draingate
In a later reply, guy cited a Apple discussion thread as his empirical proof. Do you know what, yes, even a thirty page, forum thread is compared to Apple's daily sales? A rounding error.
I think that comments field would be better used for entering any possibly relevant information the user might be able to provide. For example: what was the computer, or the user, doing before the point of the panic. I'm not saying the user has a strict duty to enter information... just that it's a good idea to add some valuable information if you can. The information doesn't need to be perfect or complete. Apple aggregates information from different users' reports and every bit (well most of it) helps.
Apple is engaged in a huge ongoing long project to make their stuff better and better for their users. It's not ever going to be easy, given the ever increasing complexity in the world. We can help, or we can cheer them on, or we can hate on them or whine when they fail. I vote for helping when we can.
Saying that "Apple is engaged in a huge ongoing long project to make their stuff better" doesn't really comfort me much. Especially as they just recently were dubbed the first Trillion dollar company. If some smaller systems manufacture (i.e. System76) had a problem with one of their designs and said that they were working to correct it, most people would give them to benefit of the doubt and cheer them on.
The other problem in my eyes is that Apple seems to be deaf to the users of it's product. I understand not listening to every single thing that the users complain about (8 cores vs 16 cores, etc.) but some things are fundamental. Things like making the MBP a desktop replacement, hence we really don't need it to be the thinnest & lightest laptop ever. We want a whole lot of things like a great keyboard and massive battery and if that makes the laptop thick and heavy then so be it.
People always think they know how to spend other peoples money better than they do.
I'm not totally fond of the current state of Apple's products, but I do agree that I'm seeing signs that they're gradually backing away from the abyss of awfulness. They've got a ways to go, and I'm sure they'll lose people along the way, but I'm hopeful that the next big laptop design they launch will show some lessons learned.
I've been following Apple since the early 90s, and, well.. they've recovered from worse problems than this so many times I've lost count — and yes, even before Jobs came back, and even after he died. Things will get better, new things will get worse.
It's a shame that people feel like venting by pounding on that downvote button, alas.
I might be mistaken - but tell me if I am - how is my X1 Carbon 6th gen meaningfully less secure/functional than the MBP? IOW, what am I getting in return for missing ESC, added complexity of the touch bar and significantly higher price? AFAICT nothing if I am not bound to the OS.
probably not what you care about, but the MBC justifies its higher price by significantly higher screen quality... and by the fact that MBPs (and Surface Pros I guess too now) are the only notebooks that manage to pull of the 'amazing screen usable outdoors' + 'battery life keeps being good even if your screen is at a higher brightness' combo...
ALL other laptop manufacturers miss this. Imo <4K and <450 nits for a screen means that it just f sucks, that's not a good enough display!
I think you are discounting the millions of people who never wanted the F-keys in the first place.
Edit: Should mention I have only restarted it two or three times in those 3 weeks so it has had plenty of time to crash
I had a Surface Book 2 which was one of the worst laptop experiences I have had in the past decade and it was close to the MBP in price. Microsoft waaaay over-engineered the Surface Book just to be unique yet still don't have the software experience good enough to be totally reliable.
I have never had my MBP fail to wake from sleep like my Surface Book for example. Or the daily need to detach/reattach from the base so that the backlight for the keys works properly, etc. So many weird quirks with that thing.
And there are detailed guides from iFixit about how exactly to do it.
And the computers are almost exactly the same to open. I just replaced the thermal paste on my 2017 MBP and it was just as easy as my 2012 one.
Going to strongly disagree with you here as this seems like major shilling.
XPS 13 keyboard while not the best, is still miles better than the 2018 Macbook Pro keyboard which is a complete disgrace to typing. I have to jump over to my external keyboard when using my MacBook Pro at work.
I do have one weird issue which seems related to installing the Mojave beta which is the machine will randomly wake up from sleep and play the power connected chime then go back to sleep. Very strange and only started happening when I installed the Mojave beta so I am assuming it is some kind of firmware bug as it is a beta after all.
Other than that this machine is perfect. Keyboard is great and much quieter than the previous butterfly models. Screen is gorgeous and with the addition of True Tone it is even more lovely. I didn't realise just how blue my XPS 15 screen is compared to the MBP. Plus it is almost always silent and stays cool even with a moderate workload. Obviously if I do anything serious it gets warm and the fans kick in but for regular work in IntelliJ and Xcode it is cool and quiet.
I am getting around 10h battery life as well for normal work, about 12 for web/Netflix.
The only downside is it is only thunderbolt 2, and they recently went away with external GPU support for new macOS updates.
I paid $1500 for mine in practically brand new mint condition on amazon, buying a new a 2018 version was $2500 roughly for something that also had 512 GB SSD.
I find the macbookpro has way better ergonomic features than windows laptops. Also, programming environment is just so much nicer IMO on mac.
TBH it's the MB Pro + OS X combo that works so well. MB Pro + Windows is definitely sub-par... lot of other great laptops for that. I've never tried Linux on a MB Pro.
The only issue is that the trackpad drivers aren't so good. Stick to OS X if you're a trackpad gesture power user.
Really? I had a Mac for a few years, but I found that I didn't like the environment as much as either Windows or Linux. A lot of programming environments work best on a Linux-like environment and don't do so well on something BSD-like (such as MacOS). There's a lot of open source software that only works on Windows and Linux, too... MacOS has such a small market share that many open source developers just ignore it.
Native folder navigation and terminal is much nicer on macOS. MacOS has better 3rd party programs for productivity in programming IMO. Iterm2 allows you to have multiple custom terminals all on one screen, and can be a transparent overlay so you don't have to swap between apps as often. The best 3rd party terminal I have found was cmder on windows, but it would always give me path developmental issues that had no explicable causes why something failed. Something that failed in MS-DOS, would work in gitbash, but fail in cmder. The solution was to just uninstall and reinstall everything many times, or just do a restore point.
Docking experience on macOS has a nice native feel to it, I prefer its transitions as well. In windows, I would run a combination of taskbar tweaks include resizing all app icons, adding blank exe spacer shortcuts, and run autohotkey scripts in the background. Windows definitely still has way more customization methods using 3rd party apps than does mac.
Macbook pros have a superior experience when it comes to handling things on a single screen. Its just convenient to use native gestures on the trackpad and move across your terminal VS browser VS website. I prefer a double monitor experience on macbook pros as well. Its just so much easier treating that monitor as a seperate "desktop space" rather than one jointed area like in windows. I've owned 2 windows laptops before this. Also, the hardware on a 2015 macbook pro is definitely much nicer (better form factor for its value) than any windows laptop I've used before.
MacOS handles dependency issues much better than windows. Every app just lives in its own tiny little folder, also downloading and installing things is just so much easier. Using unarchiver on macOS is just a one click install for most things. With windows I ran revo uninstaller, but in MacOS there is an equivalent called AppCleaner.
In macOS, when I install things I use homebrew (e.g. nodeJS). With windows its always been a full uninstall using a fully packaged exe or msi file type.
MacOS does have some programs that really suck compared to windows. My favorite apps in windows are shareX / greenshot, macOS has no close equivalents to it. I use this to make gif documentation logs during webdevelopment all the time, its very handy. I haven't really given Wine (running windows apps on mac) a try though. MacOS doesn't have an app like "timesnapper" which I use in webdevelopment in sysadmin work, which helps me play back my entire day to see what I did. Helps in catching which settings caused which errors during development, and also its good for post documentation reasons as well. MacOS had no equivalent unless you intend on running OBS software all day long or used special custom applescripts
When I develop on a windows machine it seems like there is just so many more potential bugs I have to face. When I go look up a solution, its more scattered because people have windows 8 laptops. Or 8.1, which is just a whole set of other problems. Or they are still using windows 7, some are using the latest windows 10, etc. Sometimes I'll try every possible solution to that issue, none of them work, I'll try it 10 different ways, no go. I end up just giving up honestly, its not fun when you are fighting unforseen issues and can't get into what actually matters.
With macOS its a little more uniform, since things aren't scattered windows7,8,8.1,10 issues. Everyone has the same problem, so chances are higher there's going to be some solutions out there that would actually work. Since the experience is also more consistent across both the hardware+software, there is also less unknowns.
With windows I would run into potential hardware issues and software problems as well. My old windows 8.1 laptop could not upgrade to windows 10 due to intel L2 caching error upgrades, drivers would fail, etc.
I haven't really tried a pure native desktop Mac experience though, but I still definitely prefer windows for this. Probably because I'm so used to windows.
I like having both a windows desktop and macbookpro laptop experience so I can get the best of both worlds
I used a personal linux laptop for 2 years, mostly when my windows laptop went to shit from poor performance issues. Linux just has such a huge lack of apps that I rely on everyday in either macOS or windows.
Also, macOS just has better native multimedia experience and graphic design programs well, so there's that. Nothing really compares to Apple Sketch on windows. iMovie is far superior to windows movie, etc. MacOS just has more batteries included programs that don't suck than windows
I find that in some instances, windows development is treated as an afterthought. In some cases, its macOS. Just depends on what it is IMO. With MacOS, its more tailored toward designers and graphic artists, so webdevelopment (which is what I do) is just a better overall experience
I tend to shy away from tools whenever I can, because everything has a maintenance & learning cost associated with it. Also, because I tend to have a lot of things open at the same time, virtualization really slows me down whenever I have to jump into the virtualized OS's keyboard / mouse / etc.
Down the road I might start using docker images + docker hub if I feel that the benefits (isolating test environments, debugging issues cross platform, deploying) of using virtualization outweighs its cons (maintenance, setting up, memorizing new commands, constantly running commands, etc). As of now I don't have much of a use case for it though.
Thinking of just getting my battery replaced instead, but I'll consider looking at the 2015s
That's what my windows desktop PC is for
While I agree, I wouldn't call HDMI, USB and SD Card legacy ports. They are actively being developed and enhanced at the moment. The only thing is that they weren't invented by Apple.
How is that a benefit? I love the new big touchpad on latest macbooks, it works perfectly
Way things are going I'll be very surprised if my next machine is a Macbook when my 2015 needs replacing.
Edit: now I can't unsee that MBP has its trackpad right of home key center :)
These two things are the biggest issues every time I ponder moving to Linux (Windows is not an option or I'd look at the Surface alternatives). The P1 does indeed look very interesting otherwise.
I will never ever buy a Lenovo. It doesn't matter that it didn't affect the ThinkPad line.
Clevo. They are a whitebox laptop manufacturer so you will find they are OEM for several smaller brands like MSI, Sager, and others. Yes they are Chinese market, but every laptop is made in China these days, even the big American names, so that part is unavoidable. If that truly is an issue you can't get around, you'll be happy to know that System76 is moving towards producing its devices in house in the United States, though I have no idea if the recent tariff wars have affected that situation.
But I think the real culprit is that all of the organizations the grandparent poster listed distribute proprietary software which is untrustworthy to begin with. Proprietary malware isn't hard to find (see https://www.gnu.org/proprietary/ for an organized set of links) whether it came with the OS pre-installed on the computer or installed later. So long as it adversely affects the user and leaves the user with no permission to inspect, alter, and share the software (only permission to run the malware) the situation is bad.
How about we stick to the facts we know, which is that all manufacturers but Apple have done these incredibly user hostile things.
With the amount of attention on them, if they did it, it’s bound to come out sooner or later.
Until then, though..
Zbooks seem to continue the tradition. Dell's Precisions are great, too.
Haven't had experience with the newer Thinkpads, the design, materials and being owned by a Chinese megacorp kind of drove me away.
1) You can find a couple of threads where people either say Wistron makes Lenovo Thinkpads, and even one where someone finds the Wistron name on a X1 Carbon box they were shipped: http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/x1-carbon-shipping-t...
2) Wistron is a spinoff of Acer. Specifically the Manufacturing/R&D wing of Acer. However, that spinoff happened in 2000, so there really isn't a connection between Acer and Wistron anymore:
This is a nice 2009 article about Wistron:
Which tbf Lenovo cocked up a couple of weeks ago and hosed the SSD firmware so it didn't boot. Luckily i'm not a moron so everything was backed up, they sent a new SSD and they picked up the old one to recover, which I assume will be a hardware firmware flash. I don't need the backup, but I am looking forward to Lenovo spending the money for the pickup/flash/delivery to make sure it costs them as much money as possible so they don't do this again.
If you have a larger tinfoil hat you can always libreboot an x220.
Can you explain more?
Running old Linux versions on new laptops is going to be a frustrating experience; ideally all the device drivers you need are mainlined into the kernel of your distribution so you won't have to mess with those yourself.
If you like Red Hat stuff (which I do), install Fedora 28. It's on my Thinkpad right now, and works flawless.
It's hard to really recommend the X1 (or T480s) as a developer machine, IMO.
Thank god for strong EU consumer laws that I got my money back.
Also the fact Lenovo refuse to offer an option to switch between S3 and S0i3 sleep in the BIOS is very frustrating on a business laptop. They only support S0i3 which doesn't even play well with Microsoft's own Modern Standby so is almost pointless for me. Almost daily I would open my bag up to a super hot laptop and almost zero battery as it didn't actually go to sleep like expected.
Only issue is battery life, maybe 4-7 hours with VSCode, Slack etc, but maybe you can’t complain too much given these are electron apps.
It certainly was the best I worked with until two years ago, for several years. Sure, it’s got its quirks, but they help you a lot to learn new stuff, and after that, it’s much easier to set it up again in case you needed (I only needed it once every two years or so).
Don't get me wrong, technically you can make Ubuntu just as flexible but you have to try to configure it that way. All the conveniences they brought into these distros for simple package management actually sets you up for failure when you are doing larger upgrades. Not to mention that the packages in their repos are often out of date.
I never had my Arch box fail me across upgrades, allowing me to actually be current in the code I run.
It's a healthy middle between Gentoo and CentOS if you don't want to build it all from source but yet still be current.
Even opkg and some IPAs are better than the package manager experience I had with apt-get or yum/dnf.
With luck it will be less than $1M/yr.
This is why people don't use homebrew anymore, either. If you're running a Mac you dev in a Docker container that reflects your production environment.
That doesn't mean they're developing against Arch.
And despite the name, it's pretty solid, I don't remember the last issue I had with it.
It's also surprisingly stable.
I think a higher bar to entry often keeps things better quality (coming from the dev world I am thinking about Django deployment versus PHP deployment). Arch was too much of a pain for me to install last time I checked, and its going to be way too much effort for anyone relatively new to Linux.
fun fact. Fedora is what RedHat uses to test and flesh out all the fancy features coming in CentOS 8 & RHEL 8. I think Fedora 25 or 26 is what those OSs are being build from.
Oh I didn’t know that. Will look into that!
I have a precision 5520 and haven’t had a single Linux/hardware related issue, before that I had a Thinkpad x201s, and an x201 before that- and further back still I had a T400.
It’s been more than a decade since I’ve personally seen a Linux+hardware issue.
That said, the value of a MacBook is the build quality of the device and the application ecosystem. Try getting Skype for business and outlook working on a Linux laptop. :/
This is a solvable problem that I expect to improve, albeit probably not any time soon, and I'm still incredibly frustrated by it right now. Seriously people, just test your software, even a little bit, on a convertible device.
But... if you're not an artist, and you're not using a tablet, and you have someone who can even just help you get set up a little, you kinda, maybe, probably should be at least looking at Linux? Especially if you're using a computer as a professional.
It used to not be this way at all, but I think that modern Linux is generally way more stable than Mac or Windows, and is generally easier to work with for professionals. It's starting to reach the point where it may be easier for low-tech users as well, since you can get someone else to set up a computer with exactly the stuff you want, and then only install security updates.
It's a major selling point for me to be able to go to someone and say, "Hey, Ubuntu will support an LTS for 5 years. You won't need to change a single thing about your interface, and everything will just keep working."
I'm sure there's some kind of experimental driver support at least, but it has to actually be good.
You're probably not wrong. If you're looking at a new Macbook maybe there's at least good odds you already don't care about touch? In which case, it's not a bad idea to at least think about Linux, especially since you're already familiar with more than a few of the command line conventions.
But no, touch screens are what I meant. There's also a scenario where someone is moving away from Mac specifically because they're looking at convertibles like a Surface Book. Maybe before this point they were doing drawing on an iPad, or a wacom tablet. Apple had and still has a huge userbase of artists.
Say that you're one of those artists trying to transition to (opinion me) a superior hardware medium for doing artwork, where you have more control over buying hardware brands you think will be reliable or flexible or portable, and where you can get the advantages of running a full-fledged OS on your tablet. You can buy a PC convertible and install Linux on it. But you won't be happy with how Linux runs on those devices (also opinion me).
Driver support is great, but driver support is not the problem for any Linux touch interface, that's been a solved issue for some time - the applications need to catch up to the usability level of stuff like Clip Studio. I fully expect that it will happen some day, but probably not for a while.
That being said, thanks for the suggestion, I really appreciate it. I'm still running Linux on my drawing tablet, I'm just putting up with everything that comes with it. If you had managed to find an app that had slipped past me when I was testing all of this stuff, you would have just made my tablet experience way better.
I think the use case is a little esoteric in our community, I've been seriously thinking about trying my hand at creating an application to address my needs when I get some downtime from my contract work.
Docking support is pretty awkward IME.
Multimonitor support is also "rough" to say the least.
They're pretty bad with touch/styluses.
Multi-GPU (while I'm against multiple system GPUs) support is problematic.
Power usage is also inferior, which bothers me as I prefer things greener than not, if possible. Not to mention the inconvenience.
If you're just utilizing a laptop like one would in the 80s or 90s, no problem at all, I agree. If you're trying to push the limits, hook up 3 monitors and expect it to "just work" or worse, "keep working" once you set it up.. dock/undock, use a stylus on the screen. Anything beyond firing up a terminal and a browser? Hasn't ever worked well for me. I prefer Windows10 from everything else, but also don't mind macOS (though it's similarly limited like desktop Linux is) and for a distro to just reach for and install, Linux Mint was impressive for usability. Antergos was my rolling distro goto but I prefer Mint's model of Ubuntu LTS but with continual updates to fix bugs. Constant rolling updates is not good IMO and neither is a (largely) code-frozen Ubuntu LTS release. Linux Mint nails the sweet spot there.
But yeah, other than Linux Mint, I can't really use it with how much I demand out of my machines. I consider myself a power user but I don't want to dig into the X11 codebase ever again when I have other things to take care of, some of that code hasn't been touched in 20 years (and that's a bad thing, because much needs updated).
I am also not sure about the build quality. Despite the keyboard, MacBooks are very well designed and built devices.
(I'm not a fan of the XPS 13 or 15; the keyboard is a little clicky and the touchpad is not good.)
I can’t subscribe to that. It’s ok, but it still requires permanent hand holding. Stuff randomly breaks with updates, for example since the last update I can’t scan any more. I also can’t print any more on my networked printer that’s connected to my mac server.
Apple or Samsung is what I've come to. Of the Macbooks, I prefer the MPB13 non-touchbar, it not only misses the touchbar but also has no dGPU for increased reliability. It's just the simple sort of design that I tend to go for and it's solid. But if you don't like that, then take a look at the Samsung 9 Pro. They're available at Best Buy and have the traditional "good price per specs" PC argument going for them (I'll take build quality over specs anyday but that's just me), but reviews and teardowns all give me a ton of confidence in them. They also have the SPen and 2-in-1 capability which is a pretty nice value add. In my experience, Dell/HP/Lenovo never did figure out how to build a good laptop in 30 years, and given the latest Dell XPS reviews, they aren't going to start now. Lenovo's decline is more recent, after the IBM divestiture of course.
I'm sure no one is going to like this, everyone thinks something like a Lenovo X220 with Ubuntu is the only way to go, but I actually prefer Windows 10 to both macOS and desktop Linux (though I have a place in my heart for Linux Mint for sure and I quite liked Antergos for a rolling distro when I used it). With the Samsung 9 Pro, it's almost guaranteed to lose the SPen features if you insist on avoiding Windows not to mention harming the battery life.
The OSX86 Project is pretty much all you’ll need for instructions for getting a hackintosh setup running. And if you’re interested in building one from scratch, the OSX86 Project lists compatible hardware so you can know what you’re buying will work.
If you don’t mind having to do a bit of reading and tinkering to get it working, it’s a solid way to be able to use OS X on non-Apple hardware. But, if you’d rather have something you can just install and forget, you’re better off just installing your favorite Linux distro, or buying a Mac.
I wonder if it might be possible somehow under Boot Camp. Or if on a machine as beefy as a Mac Pro if a VM would be good enough. I don't know enough about either to say definitively.
The dealbreaker for me is no ctrl key in the corner
System Preferences > Keyboard > Modifier Keys
The reason they don't support it is likely because there's not the demand among their customer base, as most people who want a GNU/Linux OS on a laptop go for Thinkpad or Dell due to better compatibility and other reasons.
Wow, they’re not even trying with the naming.