Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login

Like needle exchanges, this will be an idea that progressives will eventually realize is outrageously naive and stupid. Sorry.

Norway will slowly collect addicts just as SF and LA have collected homeless. They aren't as dumb and helpless as you think, they will gravitate to places where their situation is condoned and supported.

Norway should expect a minimum of 50k Americans to scrounge together for a one-way trip...free heroin? That is a fantasy for any addict.




Needle exchanges are a great idea. They prevent the spread of HIV, hep c, and so many other diseases at a miniscule cost to society. What's stupid is not allowing addicts to get clean needles like a lot of states used to and likely still do. It puts the whole populace at risk of disease just to enforce some idiotic idea of morality or worse, what you suggest, to keep addicts from congregating outside the exchange. That's not even a serious concern when the alternative is to spread diseases and let people, both addicts and non addicts suffer and die from disease. I understand some people hate addicts so much they want them to die, but to spread deadly diseases throughout society because you hate addicts that much is beyond immoral and frankly, despicable.


> just as SF and LA have collected homeless

SF conducts a sort of census of their homeless population. One of the questions asked is where the person lived when they became homeless. The majority are from SF[1]:

> Sixty-nine percent (69%) of respondents reported they were living in San Francisco at the time they most recently became homeless. Of those, over half (55%) had lived in San Francisco for 10 or more years.

The idea that SF "collects" homeless people (from elsewhere) is a myth not supported by data.

[1]: http://hsh.sfgov.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/2017-SF-Poin...


> The idea that SF "collects" homeless people (from elsewhere) is a myth not supported by data.

It is, actually, supported by the data you just posted to refute it, which indicates nearly a third of SF homeless were not in SF when they became homeless.


31% of homeless in SF came from elsewhere. This evidence may actually go against your opinion...

What are the numbers like for other cities?


That actually seems a good deal less than the ratio of non homeless folks that are not from San Francisco (much larger than 31%)


> What are the numbers like for other cities?

Those numbers aren't collected in a national and standardized way. Even if other cities collected data about this question, please don't compare the numbers without also comparing survey methodology.


Absolute numbers matter too.

SF and LA have higher absolute numbers of homeless because both cities tolerate it.


> Like needle exchanges, this will be an idea that progressives will eventually realize is outrageously naive and stupid. Sorry.

This program is working for more than 20 years in many European countries already. Why would it all the sudden fail in Norway?


If Norway can rehabilitate those addicts, then great.

What’s the problem with needle exchanges?

What sort of alternative strategies do you have in mind?


I don't think the plan is to rehabilitate them. I think the plan is to mitigate the consequences of addicts taking harmful actions towards others (robbery, assault) in order to get their fix. The theory is it's cheaper and safer to society to just give addicts what they need so their addiction doesn't harm others.


I think this is program could help their chances of rehabilitation.

If they need to commit crimes to get more drugs, then I imagine that they're likely gaining criminal records and "falling into a bad crowd". This kind of stuff makes it hard to rebuild their lives when/if they choose to.

This is out of my wheelhouse and am just speculating. I would love to see data or research on this, though, if it exists.


How does free heroin rehabilitate anyone?

When did Norwegian taxpayers sign up to fund a global heroin haven?

It's pretty simple...if you are a heroin addict anywhere in the world who can afford a one-way ticket to Norway...

Of course much of the free heroin will end up being resold elsewhere, and causing misery elsewhere.

Norway could end up causing a heroin epidemic as their high-quality drugs flood Europe. This is like Christmas for organized crime...a government manufacturing a potentially unlimited supply of quality drugs.


> Norway could end up causing a heroin epidemic as their high-quality drugs flood Europe

From a quick wikipedia search: Heroin assisted treatment is fully a part of the national health system in Switzerland, Germany, the Netherlands, Canada, and Denmark. Additional trials are being carried out in the United Kingdom, and Belgium.

^I feel like you missed the boat on this one.

> How does free heroin rehabilitate anyone?

I don't know if you've noticed, but the current norms of tackling addication aren't working well at all. Countries that have experimented appear to be achieving good results. See https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/dec/05/portugals-radic...

On portugal (from https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/norway-parliament-...):

The Norwegian Health Committee is planning a trip to Portugal in February, which decriminalised personal possession of drugs in 2001. The country made the move following a heroin epidemic and the highest drug-related Aids deaths in the European Union (EU).

It now has the second lowest drug-related deaths in the EU.

> When did Norwegian taxpayers sign up to fund a global heroin haven

Here (ignoring the other part of your loaded question): https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/norway-parliament-...

The GP asked for alternative strategies, which you have not provided, and which would be helpful.


So lets get this straight. The whole world of heroin addicts will flood to Norway, but then the people nearest to Norway (who likely don't have to fly) are going to be impacted by this illegal trade?

Selling something that is free is not a lucrative business for the Mafia. I think you have to make up your mind about the exaggerated scenarios you're imagining.

Here's two straightforward policies that would ameliorate these concerns:

1) Dole out the drugs on site. This is done already all over the world all the time. No take home doses.

2) This is a last resort of Norwegian citizens who have tried other methods of recovery. If you read the article, you'd see it will affect about 400 people. This is a good start, hardly a global heroin empire.


> Selling something that is free is not a lucrative business for the Mafia

It can only be considered truly free if the supply is unlimited per person, as in an "all-you-can-eat" model.

If I gave you 100 milliliters of milk per day then you could technically make the claim that you have milk for free, but you won't be able to drink even a full glass of it.


That’s fair, and I happen to agree with you. I just don’t think this particular concern is realistic given some very basic regulations in place.


How does free heroin rehabilitate anyone?

They stop spending all their time doing whatever it takes to get heroin. They can do other things with that time. Get jobs, for example. It's basically opening the door to rehabilitation.

If by "rehabilitated" you mean "not addicted to heroin", sure, not so much. If you mean "no longer a danger to society", very much so.


You clearly have no idea what you're taking about or how these programs work. You really think they just hand you a bag of heroin and bye, bye go do whatever you want with it? Addicts administer or are administered heroin at the clinic under supervision. They don't walk out with the drugs. These programs are already in place in multiple places on Europe and they are not flooding anything with drugs except addicts' veins.

As for the notion of heroin addicts being able to afford plane tickets... That's hilarious and incredibly ignorant bordering on delusional and downright stupid.




Applications are open for YC Summer 2020

Guidelines | FAQ | Support | API | Security | Lists | Bookmarklet | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: