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Just a few notes: After a few years of full time employment I received a bit over 300 euro a month I believe, for a full year, when I was fired myself.

And I believe the maximum amount of time where you can be eligible for unemployment benefits over here in Greece is a year or so.

I believe a large cause for the apathy in people who you'd expect to work these jobs is the fact that working a job like that doesn't move you forward in any way.

Back in the day, you could work for a few years and survive on your salary and hope to open your own business.

Now what's the dream for these workers? They can never afford to save up on their 500 euro a month. They can never get a loan to open their own business.

The best they can hope is that they won't be discarded and their job given to a more young-looking person down the line.



pc86 10 months ago [flagged]

> Now what's the dream for these workers? They can never afford to save up on their 500 euro a month. They can never get a loan to open their own business.

Work harder. Make more money if you want to do your own thing. Surely there are professionals in Greece making good money working as employees for others. What are they doing that the lazy uneducated worker is not?

Do more of that and less complaining that you're making 500 euro a month.


Let's ignore the fact that there simply aren't enough high paying positions for everyone that "tries hard enough".

Let's simply discuss why people might not always go for the highest paying job they could get.

What most people that aren't doing everything optimally to improve their situation is that they're succumbing to common human logical fallacies.

People don't see that there are jobs that can potentially lead them out of that class of salaries, not because they're lazy but because they're uninformed about these possibilities.

Or they might gauge that the small chance they have to get such a job isn't worth doing something they don't enjoy at all, and would rather survive doing something they find bearable.

For a lot of younger people however, things are even more depressing. A lot of the "lazy uneducated" workers you mentioned spent years getting a university education, up to the PhD level frequently, and they feel they're invested in a thing they might be good at or they might enjoy practicing.

Objectively, they should give it up. Subjectively, I can understand wanting to hold on to a small hope that you might eventually get to do the thing you enjoy doing for a living.

If I'm allowed to be frank I find the characterization "lazy" very offensive, despite not having been in their shoes, because I have countless peers that are in this exact situation.


> A lot of the "lazy uneducated" workers you mentioned spent years getting a university education, up to the PhD level frequently, and they feel they're invested in a thing they might be good at or they might enjoy practicing. Objectively, they should give it up. Subjectively, I can understand wanting to hold on to a small hope that you might eventually get to do the thing you enjoy doing for a living.

And all it takes is one(!) bad/uninformed decision in your past: skip STEM.

One of most cirurgic comments I read in HN. It's a pity that is buried in the thread.


At least over here, studying STEM isn't a guarantee that you'll be able to make a career out of your degree, much less a lucrative one. Tech gets you a job, but medical or physical sciences, and math, from the stories I hear involve fighting over scraps. I could elaborate and repeat the horror stories related to me by people around me but I won't for now.


By STEM I meant Tech/Medical sciences. Unemployment rate in these areas is virtually zero in my country.

As an anecdote, on average, a masonry assistant(!) earns more than an architect (buildings, not IT) where I live.


You're suggesting they pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Put on some boots and try to pull yourself up by your bootstraps. Let me know your vertical.


What boots? I can only afford flip-flops. Try pulling on those straps, and see what happens.

Not only are you still not upright, but you just ruined your shoes, and have to pay yet another $3 to replace them.


I suggesting that maybe, just maybe hard work might play a role in things. If someone doesn't want to work hard for 800 euro because they can get 400 euro for nothing, do they have the mindset and drive necessary to become wealthy in today's economy?


So you're saying that the labour force of entire countries in the Mediterranean region (Portugal, Spain, Greece) suffers from lack of mindset and drive, and that explains the low salaries they suffer from right across the board. Interesting. Perhaps you might want to come over and straighten them out. White man's burden and all that.


It’s not 800 Eur all other things being equal, it also incurs additional expenses. There’s the rub.


Read the article. Wages are lower today than they were in the 1960s. So overall, workers are making less across the board.


> Please don't insinuate that someone hasn't read an article. "Did you even read the article? It mentions that" can be shortened to "The article mentions that." [0]

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html




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