The 2016 Nobel Prize for Physiology or Medicine was awarded to Japan’s Dr. Yoshinori Ohsumi for his discoveries of the underlying mechanisms of autophagy.
I found a lot of interest on YT for this topic, and related "fasting" topics. With alternative "healers" gaining huge following with treatments that include fasting. Note worthy are Dr Morse (mostly juice fasts) and the Master Fast System (mostly intermittent fasts). Also I see a lot of people doing long water-fasts in combination with strength training for rapid weight loss.
Its a very interesting subject to me, and I have done some experiments with it myself, not without results.
There is something about taking some salts/electrolites/minerals with your water at some point to counter some things like light-headedness.
IF this is correct, it means keto and fasting both accomplish the same thing in terms of life extension, only with keto you get to eat bacon, steak and cabbage, spinach, brussel sprouts, etc rather than starve and be miserable. :D
You can perfectly use both if you know what you are doing. They don't mutually exclude. Although day to day keto is a lot of fat and meat. You may want to favor the vegetable part of keto after a long fast for some time.
People who do keto do get a majority of their calories from fat, but a majority of long term ketors tend to eat mostly low NET carb vegetables by volume. For example, you could eat a whole small cabbage in a day and not fall outside macros that would allow for a ketogenic state.
>Fasting have other benefits than keto: it activates your immune system, increase you hormone levels, allows many organs to rest and clean themself.
I have seen studies that show many of these as the same benifits of keto. For example, NAFLD resolves within only slightly longer on keto than by fasting. Keto is pretty effective at resolving PCOS for example.
Now, it maybe the case that fasting is more actually effective, but keto unlike fasting is sustainable as a long term lifestyle (conserves LBM etc).
As you pointed out, intermittent fasting and keto are completely compatible.
Is it? How does it affect lean body mass and muscle mass?
Same with weak joints, old muscle bruises, etc.
But again, eating properly after the fast is important to let the body rebuild what it destroyed.
1. Lose all your muscle mass.
2. Suffer malnutrition.
3. Destroy your stomach lining due to too much acid building up.
All for zero proven benefit.
But hey, people like TDD too, so I don't hold it against you.
Given that fasting is always temporary, and that in one week of fasting you only consume 25% more proteins than an entire active day (remember you are supposed to rest while fasting), it's doubtful. Especially since fasting activate the production of growth hormones.
Not that you won't loose a little muscle. Of course you will on long fasts. But "all your muscle mass" is just plain silly.
Also it just doesn't happen with intermittent fasting: you tend to gain muscle.
Malnutrition is a condition you get on the long run. Not on a few weeks on not eating a year. Besides, the improvement you get on your digestive systems after putting it to rest improve your ability to absorb nutriments after the fact, so if you follow a balanced nutrition after your fast, you should actually be better off.
And any fast minded person will tell you that what you eat after a fast is as much important as the fast itself. Once you empty the body, you gotta fill it with good things to allow it to rebuild clean what the autophagy removed.
Acid production stops after a few days because there is nothing to digest. The rare cases where people suffered from stomach lining were people with terrible eating habits that had acid problems already and went full throttle on fasting. Nobody knowledgeable about the practice would forget to tell you how important it is to prepare your body days or weeks before you fast. Especially if you are not used to it.
Have you ever read any study about fasting at all ?
I have anecdotal evidence that it helps, as I seem to get sick less than I used to.
> This is also a common regimen for cancer patients, fasting before they start a new round of chemo.
Yes, not only fasting has a positive effect on cancer, but it lower the side effects of the chemo.
I also suffer from heartburn that started way before I ever fasted the first time. In contradiction to the poster you were responding to, I find that it goes away, not gets worse, when I'm fasting. As you say, the acid does seem to stop getting produced during fasting.
I have been doing intermittent fasting 3 days a week, each time 24 hours, for 6 months. I've lost 35 pounds thus far.
1.) I am still doing the same weights as 6 months ago, some muscle groups even more. I make sure I have a protein shake after.
2.) I did blood testing for everything with my doctor 3 months ago and last week. My doctor says i'm perfectly healthy
3.) again, if you're eating alot of complex carbohydrates after fasting, or before, your stomach will have more acids. the key is to reduce your complex carbs as well
Plus, light fasting (aka, skipping a couple of meals) actually feels really good!
Please stop spreading fear and ignorance if you haven't taken the time to do the research.
For 1. you can see MMA fighters cut weight and not 'lose all their muscle mass' so that one seems to have some pretty stark evidence against it. Not to mention that body builders routinely go on bulking and cutting cycles specifically to put on more muscle.
> It's not a healthy way to live, and it's not undertaken by these athletes unless strictly necesssry
That's not the discussion, this has nothing to do with whether fasting destroys muscle mass.
Do you have anything to back up your claim?
They try to rid their body of as much water as possible to lower their weight.
When we say fasting for health it usually means lots of water, but no calories.
It isn't that MMA cutting is healthy, it is that fat is burned first, not muscle. Fasting for a day here and there isn't going to make someone 'lose all their muscle mass'.
When fighters cut just before weight in, they do so to make sure that they make their weight class cut off or they can't compete. This has nothing to do with fasting - they are forced to do it to stay in weight class, but at the very top of it (being as heavy as possible is overall a boon in the ring).
The idea that you think 'fasting' loses muscle mass is an idea that is not backed up by any evidence. Fasting isn't a diet, it is about when you eat.
Also, you didn't source anything. Don't you think maybe the dozen people replying to you might be less likely to be 'making stuff up?'