Until now. I got the new one at my job three months back. And, here I am, still struggling with and super annoyed with the missed keystrokes (the buttons are so thin/don't press properly), the almost non-existent 'Enter' keys (seriously, who messes with the Enter keys! ), the useless touchbar. I look like a klutz when I have to show code/artefacts to someone because I am always mistyping or closing windows.
Additionally, the touchbar led me to one heart-stopping evening of infinite restarts.
I am terribly disappointed that they released such a shoddy product, especially since it's used as a workhorse by thousands of developers world-wide.
EDIT: Grammar errors
Against my better judgement, I bought a 2017 MacBook Pro about 6 months ago to make it easier to work with a client.
I sold it this week at a big loss.
Between the terrible keyboard, the useless Touch Bar, and the dongle hell, and general hardware flakiness, this was the worst laptop I've ever owned, Apple or otherwise (and I've owned almost every Apple laptop generation since the PowerBook G3).
Windows just seems to be garbage with multi-tasking, specifically I miss the gestures.
But - I have to say I preferred the hardware on my old Sony Vaio Pro 13. The Dell keyboard is OK but the action isn't great, the battery life isn't great, and I really miss the extra thinness from having a carbon shell instead of aluminium.
The perfect laptop will exist somewhere, eventually...!
He was very much a kool-aid drinker, but also a writer, so the keyboard is apparently a huge deal to him. I've basically never owned an Apple product so I'm just watching this from an outsiders perspective.
As far as the fatal design flaw, the earliest occurrence I know of bringing it out into the open is when Casey Johnston wrote about it for The Outline in October of last year: https://theoutline.com/post/2402/the-new-macbook-keyboard-is...
Edit to add: Casey championing this issue is mentioned in the originally linked article.
The year of the Linux laptop may soon be upon us. ;-)
I like Apple's trackpads, but the functions that they enable are merely nice-to-have features. If you spend your day typing, any noticeable drop in keyboard reliability is going to outweigh any other input-device productivity gain. Keyboard reliability is a critical showstopper feature.
Buggy IOS/OS releases and now the hardware issues... I always equated Apple with quality and consistency (along with price), but now I can't really see how the price is justified with the issues they have been having.
He was a jerk and he cared deeply about user experience.
In his absence you have what exactly? Tim Cook lacks vision, if you want your mountain moved to Pluto he'll have it there by Tuesday but he'll never stop and ask "why?" Jon Ive ascended from above to bless us with the word "chamfer" while carpenters and machinists world wide rolled their eyes in unison, his focus is purely on aesthetic.
Regardless Job's issues, this was the best and most importand part.
Your toaster should work! If the user has to push the trigger twice (only to have it overcooked) - you should either work on your mistakes and release when you are finished, or throw a it in the garbage.
My memory of the time was seeing a bunch of cool Microsoft Surface demos, thinking "someone is gonna make a killing putting this on a phone", and the iPhone coming out a few months later. I'll go so far as to say that I think it was the first touch screen phone that was actually manufactured and sold.
But I'll be very curious to be proven wrong!
In any case, I'm quibbling, I didn't know about the Prada before you mentioned it, which makes your point. Thanks for the pointer!
Here's a wikipedia link for the curious:
Maybe vision is the wrong word. You're right that he wasn't imagining the future most of the time. What he did have was a degree of objectivity and restraint. He wasn't blinded by the "wow" factor of a new technology and could objectively weight it's merits. Where as most tech companies try to cram the latest and greatest technology into their products to have an impressive bullet list to show around, he held back until he felt the technology was ready.
I had multiple web browsers, email, irc client, telnet and ssh clients, and an open marketplace of thousands of 3rd party apps for every oddball purpose, like I had a resistor color decoder, netmask calculator, etc.
iphone came out in 2007, and had no 3rd party apps.
I bought the very first color palm pilot and was first-in a lot of tech. All this stuff was really, really clunky to use and just generally bad. I couldn't hand it to someone else and expect them to figure out how to use it without being shown.
Also, styluses were terrible except for corner-case inputs. The fact that there's essentially only one mainstream brand making a main-line phone with them goes to show this was true.
I agree it was a flub the iphone didn't launch with apps, but i honestly think people needed a year to get used to the interface concept and a lot of complete garbage would have come out of people trying to get first mover on the market(and it DID, even a year later, absolute shovelware)
People really shouldn't be romanticizing pocketpc, or even palmOS. The first truly good mobile OS palm put out was WebOS, and it took microsoft until windows mobile 7... both after the iphone.
Let's stop romanticizing the cell phone market pre-Apple/Android - there's a reason the rest of them folded and effectively died or went into obscurity within a few years.
I know Jobs is Silicon Valley Jesus, but he did not walk on water.
Tim Cook's vision is much larger than computers if you haven't been paying attention. Look, from what I can observe, ever smaller devices, lifestyle devices, the focus on privacy, their take on the cloud; Apple is looking to position itself to exist intimately in our lives. The only way to get there is to have the same level of trust that you do with family or even a lawyer.
Maybe he's trying to position Apple as a privacy minded trustworthy company when it comes to your data but he's ignoring or entrusting the crown jewels to someone else while he does it. If people stop buying Apple products because they're unreliable and support sucks then it won't matter.
> Apple is looking to position itself to exist intimately in our lives. The only way to get there is to have the same level of trust that you do with family or even a lawyer.
Bleh. That is just awful marketing speak. Why would anyone trust them to "existing intimately" in 'their life' if they can't even reliably produce reliable computers (regularly)?
My iPhone 5 (ha) is fine, but I'm hanging onto it for as long as I can because I expect to be disappointed by upgrading.
People express that Tim Cook has no vision because he's failed to deliver like Steve Jobs did (in a way they care about).
Don't get me wrong, I think his passion is wonderful and I enjoy listening to him talk about physical design in much the same way I enjoyed watching the movie Helvetica. But he's still a pretentious twat and my impression is that he doesn't care about design beyond it superficially meeting his immediate needs. Similar to how an artist might build an installation for an exhibition with no concern for it surviving beyond that, I don't think Jon Ives designs products with longevity in mind.
That's one way to refer to a dead guy.
They took over the old Sun campus in Sunnyvale while the UFO was under construction, and shortly thereafter the word was that those teams would be remaining there long term as the HQ was already overbooked. Apple also bought up a lot of space in San Jose a couple of years ago.
Apple pioneered small and fast teams of veterans. But it doesn’t scale well to this size. It’s a challenge to effectively coordinate hundreds (thousands?) of teams building various integrated hardware, software, and service components.
If they updated the screeen on the 11” it would be perfect. The 12” Retina screen is such a huge improvement over the 1366x768 screen
I love my Dell XPS Dev. Edition (9350). All stock intel hardware, everything works (except the track-pad touch detection, can be flaky sometimes) and Manjaro Linux absolutely flies on it.
The build quality of the laptop is outstanding. The only thing that I'm not in love with is the webcam placement, but not a deal-breaker.
It cost me $999 2 years ago and feels as snappy as my 2015 top-of-the-line Macbook Pro that I use at work.
I'm not saying it's better than the Apple/OS X combo in every way, but it's a great overall machine and Linux doesn't suck on laptops anymore. There's no need to put up with Apple selling you 2016 hardware at 2018 prices and an OS that isn't that special anymore.
The complaint was not about taking notes, it was about being unable to ignore the speaker and reply to emails during a meeting.
Not always possible for... political reasons.
Why would anyone buy a low performance laptop for thousands of dollars, additional dongles and external keyboards when you can get a lightweight MSI laptop that's far superior in every single way for so much less?
My penultimate laptop was an HP Mini 101; I only replaced it on a whim, and still use it from time to time. The keys have been worn to be smooth, concave and most are missing the printed text. When I last opened it up to add an SSD a suprising amount of sand came pouring out; having been taken to many beaches, tossed in bags, and generally used outdoors it had accumulated a huge amount of extra material.
I now use a Thinkpad X140e; it's got a rubberized shock-protected shell and a reinforced body. The keys are in a similar state, the body is cracked and taped together from wear, and it's fallen down several flights of stairs and fallen from great heights. (Thanks, kids!) Too many liquids have spilled on it.
The combined cost of both these machines and the replacement batteries, new RAM, larger disks that I've added to them is less than that of any mac; and they've taken a hell of a beating.
Running Linux, of course.
I wish more people would. That's the best way to get any issues fixed, whether by filing bug reports, writing up a workaround on a wiki or Stackoverflow to help others, or fixing the bug.
It's important for us to own our own tools, and keep the right to do with them as we wish. We expect this for our servers, but ignore it for laptops and desktops. If developers continue like this, then users will be corralled further into walled gardens of pay-only or data-leaking software.
HN is outraged when farmers aren't allowed to repair their John Deere tractors, yet the majority choose even more restricted OSs for work and personal use.
(This comment written in Firefox on KDE (Kubuntu) with a 4K screen, all working very nicely.)
There is a riduculous repetitiveness about this debate. For me and many others, Linux on a laptop has always been unstable, insecure, hot and noisy. Many specific issues can be fixed if you put in the effort, but on almost every dist-upgrade something essential breaks and you're back to square one.
And the response to these issues has always been a mixture of disbelief, denial, accusations of incompetence and pointers to ridiculously convoluted and brittle workarounds. There are bound to be people on every message board claiming to have run Linux for years if not decades without any of the issues I'm seeing on a daily basis and have been seeing for decades on scores of different laptops.
So where do we stand on this? Will we ever get out of this unproductive loop of claims and counter claims while an oligopoly of corporations builds ever higher walls around more and more restrictive gardens?
I've successfully converted many people with similar claims over to Linux and here's what I've found; most of them were trying Linux on a subpar, non-standard laptop, (Like an old MacBook or a slow Celeron), to lower their investment if they don't like it, which is fine, but then comparing the experience to their high end MBP running macOS, (try installing macOS to the same set of low-end machines most try to put Linux on, see how that goes). All it took is for them to get good, solid hardware, (like a recent Intel stack, or a Ryzen with a GPU compatible with the AMDGPU driver), and all was good. Not saying that is your case, but it is shockingly common, which is unfair to Linux, I'd say.
Can I please just get a Carbon X1 running MacOS?
Currently haven't rebooted my laptop for 45 days, updated in the middle (while still being able to work) and still works wihout issue.
Meanwhile my windows desktop keeps forcing updates/reboots every week interrupting my work.
Also interesting to mention: windows always has the fans on of my laptop, on linux only under heavy load.
Bought the laptop especially for the linux support on the thinkpad series, very happy with it.
But let's not blow this out of proportion. It's not like Apple has not had plenty of QA issues with OSX lately. But I agree Linux desktop QA could use some more resources. Unfortunately it seems the Ubuntu desktop/mobile push is mostly over and they're now focusing on server/container where Linux has been great for a long time already. And since volunteers always prefer writing new shiny stuff than spending time doing QA the Linux desktop will probably never be extremely polished. I do find it much better than Windows and comparable or better than OSX in actual functionality for us technical types but your mileage may vary.
Unstable? I really only run LTS, though prior to ubuntu I ran debian stable, and I rarely run into anything unstable except for certain glitches which are often graphics related and worked around with different approaches, sometimes resorting to using a different window manager.
How did I do it? I ran business level laptops. Not high-end consumer laptops - those are junk, I mean 3 generations of the Dell D series, 3 generations of the Dell E series, HP Z Books, etc.
I should also point out that mostly kept with distro packages. If I broke down and installed another, I kept it out of /usr and in my homedir or /usr/local to isolate it, or I used a PPA from a trustyworthy source (Just because it's a PPA doesn't mean it's written by a competent person). When things did break, upgrades, etc. I did not blame Linux, I blamed the package that caused it.
It's supposed to be an appliance that gets out of the way and enables higher level work, not a fascinating engineering project. The tool should _just work_, all the time. You shouldn't have to know or care what a window manager even is. That's what MacOS got right.
Now, if only Apple could go back to having the best hardware, too.. :/
Conclusion: macOS suffers from severe graphics glitches and has terrible battery life. /s
It is, if anything, a rather too mild example of the general class.
I challenge anyone to find a better computing solution for 500€.
You could install Linux on a 500€ laptop but you wouldn't have the keyboard or screen quality of the Macbook, nor would have access to the Apple ecosystem. A lot of programs for Mac are just really well made and nice to use.
You're literally posting in a story about terrible Apple keyboards... The whole point to this subthread is about alternatives with better keyboards!
I used a 2009 MacBook pro for close to 3 years.
The following are my opinions, they are not valid for everyone but for some of us they are very valid:
Keyboard had ctrl in a different spot than every other keyboard I ever spent significant time with. (Disclaimer: some other laptops come configured this way but I remap it in bios if it is my machine.)
Keyboard lacked home, end, page up and page down keys. Instead it had extra arrow keys that non of the two resident apple fans in my office could tell me the idea behind.
Basic things like selecting a word using the keyboard would take one of three key combos depending on which app. I think sometimes it was ctrl-shift-arrow, sometimes alt-shift-arrow and sometimes fn-shift-arrow. Resident mac fan explained it was because of an ongoing transition between quartz and cocoa or something.
The application menus would appear on one screen only, often far away from the application it belonged to.
So, while I wish more people would use Macs (because 1. Lots of people like it. 2. it forces application developers to think cross platform which benefits me as a Linux user, and 3. It also increases competition) I also wish people would understand that Macs are not the best choice for everyone.
Whereas all Linux GUI applications follow a completely consistent set of keyboard bindings...
Oh wait, you were being sarcastic. Well, at least you were wrong and learned something I guess.
(No seriously, you're wrong here. Linux desktops solved the uniform keybinding problem in a cross-desktop way like a decade ago. You just don't like it because they're different, not because they're inconsistent.)
>You just don't like it because they're different, not because they're inconsistent.
I didn't say anything about not liking Linux keybindings. It's a minor issue for me personally.
Of modern desktop os-es, Mac OS X was the only one who has ever consistently surprised me on this.
It might not be a big deal to everyone but for me who
- deal with text day out and day
- and prefer to keep my hands at the keyboard (even when I have a nice trackpad)
small thing like this matters.
Just like details like a good trackpad matters to other people I guess.
Selecting a word: double click / tap on it.
Back then I think that too depended on the application. I tried everything and googled it.
> Selecting a word: double click / tap on it.
I prefer the keyboard.
I agree totally. Equally I wish that every Linux user (especially here) stopped hailing the system as a panacea. This whole debate is trite.
I'm not against Macs. On fact I say: if possible give Macs to everyone at work who prefers them.
Linux is not perfect. My current Ubuntu has been particularly bad. (But that might be my fault as I got to the current state through unofficial states.)
I even grew an appreciation for Microsoft, partly because they changed a lot and partly because I learned a lot (about ABI stability, large scale software engineering, importance of documentation etc etc)
So lets advertise our OS-es but lets not pretend Mac or Linux is best. Not mentioning Windows here since they haven't annoyed me for a while : )
Thank you! At my desk at work I plug in an old HP keyboard and map those keys so that they do roughly the equivalent.
^A, ^E, just like on a terminal or Emacs. ^K deletes to the end of the line.
But it doesn't compose with shift for selection.
I also learned and still use the official workaround for that which is pretty nice often: shift + arrow up/down while on start/end of a line
Yes it does. Ctrl+Shift+E selects the text up to the end of the line.
The only noisy machine here is parked in another room and given its size and processing power it is noisy but that goes with the territory. Apple doesn't make anything that is even remotely equivalent.
Which means I can run the same software on all my machines which is another benefit.
And yes, I've been doing this for decades.
As for 'dist-upgrade', I don't normally do that, I go for long term stable releases and upgrade when the hardware gets replaced, which is once every few years.
Unless you think they are lying, it's an interesting observation. It could just be you are incredibly unlucky (a few samples in the global population will have problems, just like a few will never experience any, even on Windows). It would seem to me the distribution hump is rather on the relatively problem-free area (my mom is on Linux since the early 2000's and never had serious issues - of course, she doesn't use off-distro repos, doesn't compile her own kernel and isn't running either Sid or Rawhide), considering most people who run Linux are tech-savvy enough to get themselves in trouble. I myself had a couple desktops without sound in the late 90's but, since I switched mostly to laptops without any fancy components (such as multiple GPUs, smart-card readers, fingerprint scanners, stereo cameras...) I haven't seen a machine that doesn't run Ubuntu flawlessly.
> Will we ever get out of this unproductive loop of claims and counter claims...
Sounds like a no.
OS X and Windows also have broken usability, but at least their users don't run around telling people "it works fine for me! Just make sure you use a LTS distro with 5+ year old packages and without any hardware made since 2005"
Wait -- insecure? How? You mean full disk encryption? I am typing this from thinkpad with full disk encryption and SELinux enabled Fedora. Sure there are problems with Linux on laptop but even if you don't have SELinux enabled - security has never been an issue (or no worse than Windows and OSX).
Also, a DNS leak is potentially much more dangerous for a minority of people than any locally exploitable bug.
Also, why is it so painfully slow to copy documents to a thumb drive using Linux as compared to Windows?
Take any OS, twist the wrong knobs, and you're looking forward to a long night.
Mind that the priorities of the user are different. Most people, including programmers, aren't concerned with using all the utilities of Linux land. Programmers have eyes too, and likewise enjoy aesthetics.
For programming, I'd use Linux over MacOS any day of the week, but for music, MacOS is the clear winner.
I might have been one of those Linux users that didn't have many serious issues for decades. Tried OSX for a while (2013-14), but didn't like how OSX gets in the way, though Mac hardware seemed decent. I would rather put up with an unusable fingerprint reader under Linux (Thinkpad Carbon X1), rather than OSX idiosyncrasies. There are other issues with the current Thinkpad (screen mirroring doesn't work reliably), but that is not a deal breaker for me
At no point in my life have I had any investment in linux, it's not mine. I use windows at work, I develop using .Net-y languages in visual studio.
And I get you're speaking for a different subset of developers on hn. The real ones, who believe fervently in open source etc etc. But you say "us" and I don't think you should be comfortable representing an entire cross section of the internet so blithely.
The people who really care about owning their tools, privacy etc. usually care more about the whole principle behind free/libre software, rather than merely open-source. But I think the OP was making a point that it is important for all of us to care about this, not just people who already do, because in the end, it impacts all.
If you want people to start using FOSS, you'd have to offer them something they can't have on non-FOSS alternatives.
Makes a good doorstop, I guess.
I don't want to spend my time making a toaster - I just want toast.
Also this is why FOSS software continually reinvents the wheel, badly. Want some BS program? There are a million of them. Want an actual tool that requires deep talent and domain knowledge? Outside of compilers, if it's FOSS, it is almost certainly garbage.
I do have a problem reading visio files though. I have a solution, I tell them to f-off and send me a pdf if they want my views.
Come on, we all love open source here, but let's be honest: this statement is false.
Plugging in certain android phones, usb wifi, monitors not detected, monitors being forgotten, grub conflicts after windows updates, graphic cards drivers in messed up after apt upgrade shenanigans.
This stuff happens on all my machines, whether dual boot or pure linux. It really makes you feel helpless when your machine randomly stops working properly.
I don't have them, but then I don't do anything with phones over usb other than charge them
> usb wifi
It's built in (as is 4g, although I now tether on my phone)
> monitors not detected, monitors being forgotten
I've used an external monitor rarely, I don't recall any issues. I've seem people using external monitors on their macs and windows laptops, they often seem to have major problems.
> grub conflicts after windows updates
So a windows bug then. As I don't run windows that's not really a problem.
> graphic cards drivers in messed up after apt upgrade shenanigans
I run an LTS version of ubuntu, went from 8.04 to 12.04 to 16.04 -- took the opportunity to replace my SSD for something a little larger. Next time will be 20.04, but at that stage I think the laptop will really be due for a replacement.
I use Linux, but it does have limitations, especially when it comes to compatible hardware (mostly due to the manufacturer releasing no/bad drivers) and gaming.
have you heard of GUI?
I've just rdesktopped into a windows machine to run a cisco ASA tool. Just had to reboot it.
YMMV of course, and the plural of annecdote isn't data, but I find it hard to raise bugs when they don't affect me.
no matter the distro, no matter the desktop environment, no matter the hardware.
graphics drivers, sound system, xorg config, multiple monitors, wifi, you name it.
so excuse me if i take your comment about "no hardware problem since 2005" with a grain of salt.
I guess it's what you know.
I wish I could just use Linux, but any program that is likely to need to use my Nvidia graphics card just needs to be on Windows.
I don't want my laptop to be constantly using a hot gpu just for displaying the screen, as I need to have EITHER the gpu or integrated graphics selected for use - swapping requires a restart.
Windows has the capability to swap between the integrated graphics for simple display tasks, and GPU for more intensive tasks.
Linux has bumbleebee but it hasn't been actively developed in years. I know the main cause is Nvidia's attitude but it is still disappointing.
HPE, it seems, started a policy of requiring licenses to upgrade their BIOSes. :-(
My workflow hasn't really changed since upgrading — I still prefer to focus on one or two windows (often with the "Always on Top ᨑ" button) and just see more code/webpage in that window.
Anyway, I arranged some stuff and took a screenshot: https://imgur.com/a/7FOZkdk
Under KDE's display settings, I have the scale set to 2.0.
- Minor UI issues. Some UI elements in Amarok don't quite line up correctly. The loading dialog of LibreOffice is at 50% size. GIMP's toolbox buttons seem small. The default steps of shrinking/enlarging text in Konsole aren't great.
- As far as I know, the HDR capability of the monitor isn't supported in Linux.
- About two years ago when I last tried, mixing resolutions with multiple screens didn't work correctly.
If you use a desktop, and can afford to upgrade all its screens to 4K together, I recommend doing so tomorrow. Investigate further if you'd be mixing resolutions; see if you can borrow one.
Referring to , I have a UHD-1 screen, which is much rarer than I thought. Just 1.2% of Steam users. The more-common WQHD screens could be OK without any scaling.
At some point, I came to my senses and bought a used Thinkpad X230 for just £80. I spent £100 on upgrading the RAM and SSD to match those of the XPS I mentioned (I got a rather lucky deal on the SSD). I'm currently planning on spending approximately another £100 on upgrading the display to a 13.3" 1080p IPS panel (which will require some fairly extensive hardware mods).
So, for about a quarter of what I was going to spend on the XPS, I have a machine with roughly comparable specs (Significantly weaker CPU, admittedly), but a much more rugged design with upgradable and moddable hardware.
Your changes sound like too much work for a lot of people but its great that you found something fitting your needs at a significantly smaller price point.
I go to standby on lid closed and shutdown at the end of the day. Bootup to login takes 20 seconds so I don't bother with hibernate.
IOW: Your solution may not suite all.
I also save downloads and small 'run once' experiments to /tmp, so booting the notebook is a good way to clean everything up.
Suspend (to disk) can be slow on some hardware -- moreso than rebooting. Though it preserves state.
But again the point is that presuming goals/preferences, or attributing them to all others (and no, OP didn't do that) scales poorly.
As with most workflow preferences, the details are highly internalised.
But 5th generation had a smooth linux experience, I bet the same goes for most other laptops. I'm hoping 6th gen will be fixed in 6-12 months with newer kernels, etc. But at the moment it's quite broken.
Battery life under Linux compared to Windows 10 seems slightly better - I guess it’s because I’m using MATE, so it’s a less resource hungry DE.
Check it out!
With Debian, I've used a very old Dell Latitude (circa 2010, Core2Duo, DDR2, i3wm or XFCE) and newer Dell Inspiron (2017, i5 7th Gen, DDR4, full HD touchscreen display, KDE/XFCE+i3wm) and never had trouble with either sleep/wakeup or with wifi. Touch isn't as great as Windows, so it detects only "left click", not right click, zoom, etc. but I never use touch so it's something I can live with.
Incidentally, I installed Linux because the Windows 10 that came preinstalled had some hardware issue and the fan was always on, so I was getting around 1 hour of battery life. Switching to Tumbleweed (Linux 4.x at that time) gave me amazing battery life, around 5-6 hours. And when Debian 9 (kernel 4.x) got released, I quickly moved to it, and still get around 4-5 hours if I'm doing text editing, browsing and little bit of compiling.
the design where the display is _least_ fragile part of the laptop is brilliant: wins over removing extra ounces or millimeters. i wish more laptops were built this way and suspect the only reason they aren't is because it doesn't look as "hi-tech" as some of lenovo's other laptops.
I'm a software engineer, I used to love to customize my computer and make it different, now I just want it to work and not having to waste hours and hours fixing it.
Take the previous design, you know the one from late 2012 to 2015.
If you must (sigh), take out the SD card, HDMI, USB A, MagSafe and replace with USB-C. I don't know who suggested this, but whatever.
Don't add in a touch bar. Don't add in an over sized touchpad. Leave the keyboard alone. The layout of the model is amazing.
I purchased a late 2012 in Jan '13. It's been my daily driver for 5 years now, without a single issue and it's an amazing piece of equipment. It allows me to just get on with my work, rather than focusing on the issues with the OS (looking at you Windows 10).
Want to make the product much better? Upgrade:
- the screen to 4k
- the memory to 32GB
- the SSD speed and give me options of 1TB and 2TB.
- the CPU to the latest i7 and more cores the better.
Listen, you can even charge $5k for the privilege. I don't care at this point. My needs for it just working and allowing me to work without the issues of running Windows 10 are the only things that matter to me.
Ok, I understand. We are negotiating here.
- $10k... ?
Sure, I'll pay $10k for a PRO laptop. One that lasts 5+ years. I'm happy to depreciate it over a period of time, because for me. It's not an ACCESSORY. It's a workhorse!
I really hope someone at apple listens. You guys had an awesome laptop. Then you made it crappy.
I'm literally praying to "Lord Jobs" on the other side, that I don't run into any issues for at least another 3 years and Mojave is my last OS it seems. I'm STILL on El Capitan!
* Fix the keyboard's reliability
* Remove the touchbar
* Give us back those last Wh and bump the battery back up to 99 (right under the FAA limit)
* Improve the thermals (if this means making the machine thicker, then sure). In summer (with aircon set to 26 C) I can't plug my laptop in to charge and use Xcode without it overheating and throttling. Same issue affected my old 2012 rMBP so it's not a new issue.
I don't even need anything higher resolution (retina is great), honestly. In fact, I don't even need a more performant (or more cores on my) processor (my quad-core i7 works great with everything), or better GPU - all I need is:
- 64GB RAM;
- 2TB SSD;
- better camera.
2. Gain market share.
3. Gradually make product worse without losing market share.
4. Make product good again with giant price increase.
Apple is stuck on step 3. Either they don't know that step 4 exists, or they think they can squeeze more juice out of step 3, or they don't have the technical ability to do step 4.
Compared to what's out now, yeah, it's great. But in absolute terms, it's only moderately functional.
What are you waiting for?
If they bump it up (which would be a good idea) they'll likely go 3x (4329 x 2700 on the 15") not 4K.
> - the memory to 32GB
That's the one I don't see happening. Much of Apple's tradeoffs are about keeping battery life in the face of design stupidity, dropping LPDDR is very unlikely.
> - the SSD speed and give me options of 1TB and 2TB.
Both options exist (on the 15") and AFAIK Apple has pretty fast SSDs, the main issue with them is that they're soldered not that they're slow.
They won’t support 32Gb ram because it might decrease battery life and requires them to reengineer the logic board but they’re totally cool with a fragile ass keyboard GLUED to a battery! Really there’s no way to call this anything other than insanity.
I remember the media used to talk about the ‘halo effect’ - well I’m someone who has Almost every MBP between 2002-2012 and every iPhone until the 7 plus.... right now I doubt they’ll make a real pro laptop and so I’m likely gonna switch to a Dell XPS. /end frustration
While I totally agree with you about the new MBP, please just know that the XPS 15 isn't without it's problems too! It must just be that Windows users are more used to lower quality hardware/software that such things are accepted...
I really like my XPS 15 as it is fast and as compact as a MBP, but:
- Microsoft Surface Bluetooth mouse and keyboard don't work anymore after an idle period of maybe 10 minutes. Have to disable/enable Bluetooth to get it working again. I reverted to RF dongle keyboard and use the Surface Mouse with the included USB cable.
- I had a huge number of BSOD early on. It's still not perfect, but almost fine now.
- The web cam is at the worst possible position. It films your fingers and breast, rather than head!
- The microphone is even worse, no one will hear you talking.
- Headphone with microphone works fine. But after unplugging I don't have any sound anymore. Sleep/wake fixes it...
- I obviously do miss some of the Mac apps like OmniFocus, Pixelmator, xScope and others while working in Windows.
Go into device manager and disable their power saving settings. I had disconnection issues once or twice a week with my MS Designer Mouse and this fixed it.
Found this article that shows where it is: https://www.howtogeek.com/189856/ask-htg-how-can-i-keep-my-b...
I searched the web, updated Dell drivers, found some Reddit thread where they explained cryptic settings in the device manager... All of that didn't help. I gave up when I found yet another blog post where a guy even replaces the internal bluetooth kit of his XPS 15!
In the hope that this fixes it once and for all: Thank you so much!
Tomorrow I'll test the Microsoft Surface mouse, AKA Microsoft Modern mouse.
As someone who's going bald, this is a feature rather than a bug.
Of course, I'd like 4 cameras on the corners and software that allows me to shift a virtual camera to the center of whatever video conference tool I'm using.
BTW, that would be a brilliant new feature for Apple laptops of the future. That and chroma/motion key built in the camera video processing pipelines or, perhaps, the full set of iPhone image processing options.
I don't think filming my neck-rolls and the inside of my nostrils is much of a feature.
- So the bluetooth issue may be fixed with some stupidly hidden Windows setting in the device manager.
- I forgot to mention that 3 of our XPS 9550 had their trackpad (and battery) replaced after the batteries inflated and pushed the trackpad out of the case. Luckily this happened a few weeks before the end of the 2 year warranty.
I’m seriously worried that the platform I’ve been so comfortable with the past 10 years will fall in disrepair because of some ill-advised management that chose to chase some other innovation...
It’s another problem I don’t need
The larger point about recognizing that we’ve plateaued on size & weight benefits is important, though. As long as we need keyboards there’s not much point in taking on all of the other compromises.
Every single Apple's competitor delivers laptops with 32+ GB of RAM, and MacBooks are stuck at 16GB and there's no one to blame for it but Apple.
This is only partially correct: those are separate models which are bigger and have worse power and heat characteristics. Every laptop which is similar to Apple's shares the 16GB limit for the same reason; the difference is that Apple has decided not to offer that second tier.
MacBook Pro, a first-tier plaything. If they do finally release a "second tier", what the hell are they going to call it? MacBook Super Pro?
Fine, I'll take 32Gb of RAM and a less than a week of standby time thanks.
Can you elaborate on this? Is this related to DDR4LP? Is there a connection?
I don't think PCIe lanes and low power ram are directly related, but it is just another sign of Intel attempting to control the market via feature segregation.
The CPU only has 16 PCIe lanes. Which is flat out retarded when 4 of them will be used by NVMe, and 8 (and really 16 should be) can be used by video. This only leaves 4 additional PCIe lanes for any other devices, including USB-C and thunderbolt.
Simply put, if there were any competition in the market, that CPU look much different. Low power ram and 8 more PCIe lanes at least.
Portable, powerful, comes with USB Type A and C ports, Thunderbolt 3 and comes with one of the best keyboards in laptops.
It took months for a BIOS release to make the keyboard workable.
Now if only they could get the webcam to work..
What ever was the point of making this thing razer thin? What bizarre, mythical user did they have in mind that just couldn't stand a few cm of extra 'bulk'? None of this makes any sense, except it being a case of design driven engineering run amok.
I could be misremembering, and it frustrates me either way, but I was certain that Intel also held some blame for this?
I wanted to have a desktop that I could leave on without it taking lots of power (CO2 matters) or needing a wind-tunnel grade fan to keep it cool (noise matters). So it had some variant of what Apple used. In my opinion this CPU was a dud, I had to upgrade the BIOS numerous times and it wasn't any quicker than my elderly i5 powered laptop. Plus it wasn't as silent as hoped:
Apple used the same RAM limited CPU in 2015:
The subsequent products with the useless keyboard were to use iterations of this lemon of a CPU.
My Intel NUC is actually in a drawer unused. I had lost a couple of keys on the elderly i5 laptop, I bought a new backlit keyboard for that on ebay, it came from China in an incredible 3 days and cost ~£50 including shipping. This is the keyboard I am using right now. It actually looks super cool as the laptop was originally all in silver, the replacement keyboard and surround is black and the design looks so good because the mousepad is still silver coloured. It looks like a high end German product due to that colourway combo.
The logic board would also have the redesigned and bigger for the new chipset, putting pressure on battery space. You see Microsoft making the same choice as Apple with the new Surface laptop.
Fortunately Intel are launching new mobile chips with support for fast, low power LPDDR3E memory over 16GB this year.
Got a free replacement though.
If your work or personal use can so freely change Operating Systems, then, I guess I consider you lucky.
I can't really do my job from a Windows box without significant pain. I could probably use Linux, but it would add some additional frustration.
I need it on whatever machine is my development machine. Clojure REPLs are memory intensive. I'm sitting at 7GB in use right now, mostly thanks to Chrome, even without anything major running.
I could probably squeeze under 16GB if I was aggressive about shutting down server applications (e.g. Apache and MySQL) I'm not using at that moment and only starting them up when I need them, but that's just adding more chores to my workflow.
Having more than 16GB of RAM just means I never need to worry about it. It's one less headache to deal with.
yet I don't feel like switching away from Mac is a realistic option for me. There are a ton of apps on which I depend. Can't exactly stick them in a docker image.
But here is the following: Apple is really improving. It is just not meeting the expectations of its demanding users (and rightly so since we are paying a premium for Apple hardware).
I remember getting sick of macOS Sierra and decided to rollback to Mavericks. Holly crap, I then just realized how much more polished Sierra is with all its issues. The external screen resolutions were screwed, can no longer answer calls through my mac, notes no longer sync and a dozen other things that I just "assumed".
These advances are probably building technical debt. But also they are what attaching people to the Apple ecosystem.
I get my airpods connected to my iPhone easily and without issues. Then I quickly switch the input to my Mac. Then back to my iPhone. Good luck getting that to work correctly on Windows software and other hardware.
I love and miss the aesthetics of macOS and Magic Mouse swipes. However let's face it, Apple alone cannot stand the pace. It just cannot compete with hordes of companies from all over the world who do their part of job really really good. Gigabyte, ASUS, Samsung, Intel, Crucial, NVidia, AMD, Dell to name a few plus many other small and big suppliers vs Apple Goliath. Battle result is predetermined by the forces of nature. Apple gonna lose in the long run.
The question is, is apple really going backwards, or is it a case of "I don't like change".
The longer you use something, the more you don't like anything different. Is USB-C really a step back from magsafe? Is removing the function keys really a step back? How about removing 3.5mm jacks from a phone?
I've used /etc/network/interfaces to configure my network for 2 decades. Netplan is thus stupid and terrible. Except if I look at it objectively netplan is better. It deprecates those nice comfy hacks and configs I don't even think about, so of course I don't like it.
My local hifi shop tell me that the bose qc35s jumped off the shelves like hotcakes compared with the 25s, because they were wireless and rechargable. I don't like them because I like 3.5mm. But as the man said:
Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works. Anything that’s invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty- five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it. Anything invented after you’re thirty-five is against the natural order of things.
A single port on a mobile device for power OR audio? That port is NOT USB-C?
Trying to sell the market a set of customizable function bar replacement versus a touch screen?
You can classify MacBook users into two groups: people who hook up their laptops to lots of stuff, and people who don't. The people who hook up their laptop to lots of stuff are the kind of people who get to work, hook up their laptop to power + keyboard + mouse + headphones + maybe Ethernet + maybe other peripherals, at a desk where all this stuff is static. For those people, USB-C is a major improvement over MagSafe. The odds that your power cable is going to be tripped over with proper cable management at your desk is vanishingly small and the convenience gained by only plugging in one cable is enormous.
On the other hand you have the people who bring their laptops and power adapters with them to Starbucks or the university library or their co-founder's apartment, and are constantly looking for a power socket. You know, the ones in this thread complaining about the keyboard (because they never use an external keyboard) and won't buy anything else anyway (because they love the trackpad and never use an external mouse). For those people, USB-C is a major regression from MagSafe because even if Apple provided a USB-C dock in the box for free, for them it would be collecting dust in the bottom of a closet somewhere.
But this is typical for Apple, whose corporate ethos seems to consider the notion that allowing the customer to have a choice is a bad thing. Which means that the question isn't whether USB-C is a regression over MagSafe or not, it's whether you belong to Apple's core market segment and fit into Apple's core product strategy, which holds that the word "regression" is simply not part of the vocabulary used in the conversation revolving around Apple's products. Improvements are all doubleplusgood changes, simple as that.
It's odd though, the apple ecosystem has "always worked" if you stuck with it, where linux and windows have needed various amounts of firtling (customising your workspace, switching etc)
People who plug in perhiphials seem to be against what I understood apple's view to be. I guess they want those of us who just have a laptop and don't connect anything up to be using ipads instead (perhaps that explains their choice to downgrade the keyboard --- you either dock into a fixed workstation with a decent keyboard, or you use a touchscreen. Eventually I wouldn't be surprised if the keyboard is completely removed from apple laptops. And we'll all be shocked. )
* I don't miss the CD rom at all - even at the time. I think that was a totally valid design change
* I love QC35's and BT headphones in general, the convenience is undeniable
* I even like a bunch of soundcloud mumble rap, that's supposed to be anathema to my generation
* All that said, I can't stand the new Apple keyboard, it completely ruins typing, which is sort of a fundamental part of using a computer
I guess I'm saying it's possible to appreciate some change, while not appreciating other would-be innovations. I really have a hard time seeing how this keyboard is in any way a positive change - there isn't really much benefit to having a bad keyboard. It's all negatives, unless saving a literal couple of millimeters in machine thickness is somehow super desirable.
Without a single doubt in my mind.
For magsafe, yes. But overall, I like the move to USB-C. I plug 1/2 as many things into my computer each time I sit at the desk as I used to. Once these docks come down a bit more in price I'll plug a single wire into my computer at the desk.
> Is removing the function keys really a step back?
Not sure. Right now I'm indifferent.
> How about removing 3.5mm jacks from a phone?
Definitely a tempest in a teapot.
As an aside, the few people I know with 2017 MBPs all like the keyboard. None of us have had issues so I'm sure that makes a difference. Personally, I like the key travel and how quickly I can type on the new keyboard.