"Apple faulty product flowchart: Deny --> Get sued --> Admit --> Initiate repair program" 
The next step is for the class-action suits to wither on the vine because Apple can say it's providing relief.
I also like to point out that the quote may have ended up supporting the behavior it criticises instead of limiting it. By spreading the idea that such behavior is actually common, it may have legitimized it.
I have no evidence to support this, but I refuse to believe such behavior, especially in the explicit form alleged by Fight Club, is anything but rare. "Corporations are people" (my friend) also implies that people make all those decisions, and individual morality does play a role.
I do have personally witnessed several instances where employees have insisted on moral behavior even when it was detrimental to the bottom line.
If it were instead: multiply by the average cost to society, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one., then this is probably the best you can do (if you're a utilitarian)
On the other hand, society does have a responsibility to make sure the incentives on the company reflect what is actually important.
I think we might finally hit a point in time where everything starts to be USB powered and not proprietary cables plugging into bricks (ha yeah right).
Unfortunately, if the corporation has better lawyers, it often doesn't.
I wouldn't expect Apple to reimburse me for lost work; that's a risk I take when I buy and depend on a computer. But that risk certainly makes me take risks like "your keyboard may stop working and take a week to ship off and repair" into considering when buying something. I wouldn't buy one of these models with notoriously fragile keyboards.
"Cost to society" is a term where I suspect various people will assign various different meanings to it.
Either we all explain what that term is supposed to mean, or, we use a different term.
In this case, I'm pretty sure the comment which started with the cost to society (speaking about the idea that an out-of-court settlement should reflect 'the cost to society') clearly meant: Take the # of laptops failing and becoming unusable due to the problems with the butterfly keyboard design, minus all people who get them fixed within 1 year warranty, and multiply it by $700, which is what owners of these laptops have to pay apple to get it fixed out of warranty.
The point that was presumably being made is that the out of court settlement should be similar enough to the internal (to apple) cost of apple's repair program, or possibly even this $700*affected number. The idea being, if it isn't, apple will simply settle out of court because it's cheaper for them to do this.
There's really no need to bring some sort of comparison between random car drivers and users of 'hippie' laptops into it, that seems unduly presumptuous of you.
Are they not a member of society?
I must admit that I find it easy to pigeonhole people into these straw-man categories too, but making the leap from "I really don't get it" to "These people have no intrinsic value, thus we can completely disregard their well-being" is a giant step towards collective madness.
Even if you don't like someone (to the point of using uncalled derogatory terms), they're still a part of the society.
But no, this will not come to pass because of Apple's cruddy keyboards.
That cost of society is what was meant.
In the case of Apple Keyboards, I doubt the rate is as high.
I've got such a 2011 Macbook Pro, and it had a logic board replacement to fix the GPU problem in late 2014 and now that logic board has failed with the same problem.
So one big FU from Apple to Me. Thank you Apple.
I found asking for an official Apple estimate of working lifetime was enough get them to post me a replacement with no further questions asked.
In the UK under law you can expect a reasonable working lifetime for anything you buy. Manufacturers can’t really refuse tell you what that is and refuse to replace/repair the product at the same time.
My suspicion is that Apple don’t want state upfront, your new laptop is only going to last 2 or 3 years (MTF) and then will probably go kaput because that would change the way people assess the value of new purchases.
If something is a consumable and is going to wear out you should expect that to be clearly stated.
Worth a try anyway.
Why if your older computer is working fine and you are happy with it?
or you could design your products so that if it breaks, its easier for the user to repair it themselves instead of advocating for throwing it in the trash and buying a new product.
Pretty sure System 76 will sell you some ugly box that you can fix and hold on to forever.
Here's me not looking forward to another failure.
We are now around step 15b.
When things go wrong, EVERYONE knows, and they can't just hide it. They have to do something about it. This is in stark contrast with some Android phones, eg: Nexus/Pixel, which while popular, and will make the news when something goes sour, don't generate enough noise for Google to really do anything about it aside token efforts.
My X has a couple HUGE scratches and a ton of tiny ones. I've examined friends phones and it's the same deal. My roommate still has my old 6S, not a single scratch on it and it's almost a launch day device. So nearly 3 years of service now.
It's definitely a variation from the glass they've used in the past. Even my iphone 1 didn't have any scratches...
The screen on my X, which I use heavily and every single day since launch, is virtually pristine. Inspecting it right now I can find 2 micro-scratches (both on the edge), and that's it. If anything, this screen has held up better than previous ones.
Because of where i live and when the phone launched, it literally hasn't even been around sand yet because the weathers been awful
That said I would add that I deliberated a lot over whether the X was worth it, and looking back now over the best part of a year I can say a resounding “yes”. I was really worried that iteration one of a new product was going to suck, but the only fault I’ve noticed is the glass scratching easily. Apart from that, I feel that Apple really nailed the iPhone X, one of their all-time best designs.
I'd really like to use a longer passphrase to protect my phone, especially now that iOS 12 has the USB locking feature to protect against threads like greykey - but it's a huge pain in the ass to enter a sufficiently long or complex password or passphrase on a touchscreen keyboard so I haven't bothered due to the aforementioned TouchID issues. I'm actually kind of looking forward to upgrading this year and giving FaceID a go, it's annoying that I have to trade the option of using TouchID for it but all the anecdotal evidence I've found presents a more consistent experience.
FaceID works great when I'm at my work desk and have the phone on a charging stand. I can just glance at the phone and it unlocks to show my notifications.
Otherwise, I just want to be able to pick up the phone (from the bedside, from my pocket, etc) and have it already unlocked by the time I look at the screen.
I do lift my head but maybe it’s something else I’m doing. I’ll try different angles or maybe open my eyes wider. I just feel like this kind of experimentation kind of flies in the face of the Apple experience that I thought I was paying for.
More generally, I would rather pay extra for a product that isn't based on advertising.
I wrote up something, but I feel that it is both below the standards of HN, and not something I would want to publicly attach my personal name to. I’d be happy to send it to you if you’d like.
I don't use any protectors, I put the phone in my packet together with my keys, my cat tries to chew on it every time he sees it lying on the bed (I don't know why), and otherwise handle it quite recklessly.
The only way I really got cracks is when phone fell out of my hands, face-down on a gravel. Happened on a second month after the purchase, had to replace the display (but still decided I don't want a protector film)
Now, reading about the scratches I wonder how bad it is with iPhone X.
I don't know that I'd really call them "microscratches", either-- they're pretty prominent, and one runs fairly deep.
Do you keep the phone in the same pocket as your keys? I make sure to keep them separate.
Why? At least use a glass screen protector if it's the feel.
I don't understand people with screen protectors. Unless they plan on reselling it.
BTW, I think people with iPhone X but with a screen protector are making a fundamental signaling mistake: you show to people that you can't really afford the phone.
My anecdotal experience has been that a plastic screen protector greatly reduces the likelihood of screen breakage, presumably because the soft plastic can absorb some amount of impact force. I've never ever broken a screen, and I drop my phone fairly often.
I also prefer the finger-feel of the Belkin plastic screen protector. And I enjoy replacing the protector every 6 months or so and walking out of the store with an absolutely perfect, scratch-free screen.
(I tried the Belkin glass screen protector once; it cracked within a month. And I disliked the finger-feel.)
Examining the phone very closely under a bright light, I was able to find a handful of tiny scratches on the iPhone X display. I cannot see them in normal use at all; the phone basically still looks brand new.
In comparison, my previous phone was a jet black iPhone 7 Plus, and the display got three very visible scratches in one year of use. The back, of course, was full of micro scratches, but that was expected.
Here's a photo of the screws with a grain of uncooked rice for scale: https://imgur.com/gallery/En32MFP (image safe for work)
For most of my repairs, it worked out more cost-effective to purchase a new MacBook top with keyboard attached, and just transfer the logic board, than spend time unscrewing, fitting the keyboard and refitting the masses of tiny screws.
On labour/consultancy alone, I suspect this will be an expensive per-case recall.
What you are talking about is not allowed for work done under Apple.
The top case is one part which cannot be disassembled so far as they are concerned. It contains the main part of the shell, the keyboard, the trackpad, and the battery. A failure in any part of it is to be serviced by a complete replacement of the top case.
It is not an exceptionally expensive component, but it is a significant amount of labor. The top case is pretty much the "base" that all other components are attached to. Which means you take everything else out (logic board, display, fans, vent, etc) and move it to the new one.
Also, the touch ID bit is a bitch to move.
After being an Apple user since 2006, I’ve just switched to a Thinkpad for my home machine. Compared to a MacBook Air, the X series is only 1mm thicker, but smaller in all other dimensions, including weight. Yet I can upgrade the storage and memory, and replace parts myself that fail (the battery can be swapped while it’s running). It also has a full array of ports including USB type A & C, HDMI, headphone jack, SD card slot (the latest version has replaced the Ethernet port with a dongle).
Admitidely they don’t look as nice, but I’m not really a design sensitive person.
I’d prefer to stay on os/x because Linux is still tedious in the way that you have to configure it to make it tolerable and windows had gone from great (7) to something that annoys me on a daily basis (10).
But I’m mainly scared of the mouse. The MacBook trackpad is damn near magical and I’m not sure I could ever use a laptop with a trackpad that didn’t come close to it. The price point and the design choices on the MacBook line as well as it’s price point (price can be mitigated by buying older versions like I did) have made me consider other options, thinkpads being the main competitor. But how is the trackpad?
I almost never use the trackpad, preferring a mouse. I don’t like them even on macbooks (I also have a macbook air for casual use). But it’s definitely worse than macbooks.
I never noticed the offset b, but now that you’ve pointed it out to me it’s going to bug me. Thanks. I do like the keyboard better than the air’s keyboard. I haven’t used the new mb pro’s keyboard to any extent so can’t compare, but I like a bit of key travel so probably would still prefer the lenovo.
What’s currently keeping me on my late 2013 MBP for the moment is poor default behaviour of desktop Linux.
Like the Bluetooth forgetting the state it was left in on every reboot.
Or something, I don’t know what, constantly reversing horizontal trackpad scroll direction (but leaving vertical alone). Or blanking the screen after 20s of inactivity regardless of the screen/power settings in Gnome.
I know that I’ll eventually get that stuff under control but it’s weird it doesn’t work out of the box without a trip to Stack Overflow.
I really miss its ergonomics when using other brands.
Problem is, there are not many notebooks with trackpoint :/
Btw I can't talk about newest models, but this thing does not change much.
Plus the desktop is second hand enterprise stuff and cost virtually nothing which was a pleasant surprise.
I am afraid they will just increase the already huge margins, to account for similar cases in the future.
In other words if customers would accept higher prices then Apple would have already increased the prices.
Is there any reason to expect an image of some screws and a grain of rice not to be safe for work? Genuinely curious. Like, what else would possibly be in that image? I think in general we expect all images on HN to be safe for work. And if they are not then people warn about that. Were there any NSFW images that you came across when searching for this one?
That photo I took with the screws was ~3 years ago, my image hosting has changed since.
With the new butterfly keys that is apparently no longer possible.
But this only helps with some kinds of key issues where the keycap or scissor mechanism is the problem, like sticking or rubbing keys (and dirty keys). It usually doesn't help with issues like no key response or wrong letter being typed. In this case the keyboard, and therefore the top case, would need to be replaced.
Everything I've read suggests that they only replace the entire keyboard, or in the case of the new Macbook, the entire top half of the computer.
I've also read that the scissor switch breaks when you try to remove the keycap, so I'm not sure how replacing individual keys would work.
The big thing is the keycaps and scissor aren't designed to be removed, unlike other parts of the machine, so you will break a large fraction of the ones you try to remove, and those will need to be replaced with a new key and/or scissor. And they're small and fiddly to replace. So there's a difference between replacing 1, 2 or 3 missing or wonky keys and half the keyboard. Many shops would probably only want to replace the whole top case after a certain threshold due to the time and work involved. If the keys are sticky it's different too, since the keycap, scissor plus the part of the top case below and around the key would need to be cleaned to get it moving well. With more than a few keys this starts to be a lot of work.
The butterfly keyboards don't have replaceable mechanisms, and the keycap's tabs are so small that they are not meant to be put back on, but instead always replaced.
Why do you transfer the logic board? Do you need to obtain a new logic board (as part of the "top", and trash the original machine's logic board? )
As I recall (no pun intended) from past recalls, a logic board change is $300 itself (but that includes some redundancy if you are already doing a service call to change another part of the device)
But the sibling comment has pictures and is right about the ram.
My big concern was getting the extended warranty and then having it break just outside the warranty period leaving me stuck with a big repair bill.
Personally I still think they should make a 32Gig Memory MacBook Pro, that's built like a tank, maybe it weighs 5+ pounds, who cares, people who want a light fragile comp can just get the non-Pro model.
edit: updated "4 pounds" to "5+ pounds" since apparently it's already 4.5 pounds
I'd like to see at least one MacBook Pro model that at least threw the SD slot and HDMI port back in. And, sure, USB-A, but I suspect that ship has sailed no matter how much of a mess USB-C objectively is. Of course, I'd like to just see the MBP models all switch to the Magic Keyboard design even though it will -- gasp! -- make the machine a millimeter thicker...
The difference is that one could reasonably assert that the industry will eventually migrate away from USB-A (even if the timeframe for that is highly debatable). But there is no case at all to be made for moving away from HDMI or SD – the idea of using USB-C ports instead of HDMI on TVs and projectors is only in its earliest proposals, and there is nothing on the camera industry's horizon to replace SD cards with any kind of USB-C compatible media.
USB-A may be superseded (if only technically) by USB-C, but HDMI and SD have no current successor.
Four is down from 7 holes on the Macbook Pro 2015. (Magsafe, 2x usb a, 2x thunderbolt, SD, HDMI).
Literally every single MBP in our office has failed, some of them more than once. The failure mode is always the same: the keyboard gets flaky, then you lose a key for a couple hours until you manage to finagle it back into working, then you lose 1-2 more keys and they never work properly again. The only fix is to turn it over to Apple for several days, which means you can't count on a single MBP per employee, because at any given moment --- with near certainty --- someone's laptop will be taken out for several days.
On the plus side, it's a little bit like Chaos Monkey for backups, since you always know you're probably just a day or two away from needing to swap machines.
It sounds like a minor thing, I get it! "Sticking keys, oh no!" The problem is: you can't type. The only way to be typing again on your machine is to have it sent away for several days. That's a disaster.
Between this and the mostly useless touch bar I’d gladly take a MBP 2015 design with an updated CPU any day. I get that Apple likes to take chances on new ideas and that often pays off spectacularly for them but not this time.
I work at a 300+ person company full of 2016/2017 macbooks and personally own a 2017 macbook pro, and I've not witnessed a single problem from that sample size.
The latter wouldn't surprise me! Lots of people use external keyboards, or just deal with the petty frustration of having to hit certain keys much harder or backspace out the repeats.
It's obviously a serious issue because Apple has created a special program for it. But, it also seems obvious that only some machines are affected, for whatever reason. Maybe some people just type harder than others.
Perhaps it's the dusty office? We are located in a old ship hangar.
What if it’s just climate? Dust and humidity are regionalized. Companies in drier, less dusty, less “sticky” climates might see few to no sticky keyboards.
You might also find different working environments have an effect, is their aircon filtering more dust?
Wait, this laptop portable machine can only be used in environments with filtered air?
This "you're holding it wrong" shit is weird.
In my office we have no issues across about 20 2016 and 2016 models.
I am not even trying to downplay the fact that it's happening a lot; It just seems so strange to read so many people on hacker news talking about extremely high rates of failure in their sample size, when neither myself nor anyone I've talked to has experienced it.
The important question, given N employees, is: "How large can N get before we need N+2 MBPs to reliably keep everyone computing?"
I respect you and your posts generally, but I can guarantee that’s a hyperbolic statement if sample size is greater than maybe a small handful.
This computer is far and away the worst machine I’ve had in my professional career.
You see, that is the problem. I expect Keyboard failure to be LESS then 0.03% - 0.04%. Thanks to Apple, people finally realise how important the keyboard is, especially in these days and age, where Mac / PC are more for professional and business / work usage. 4% Repair meant 4 in every 100 Mac, even 0.04% is 4 in every 10,000. For Keyboard!
For every IBM / Lenovo, Dell, HP single Keyboard failure I have seen in the past decade of my professional career, there is like 10 MacBook Keyboard failed in the past 2-3 years. It doesn't mean other brand don't fail, but they are much less often, 5 times cheaper to repair, and many had three year warranty included. While All Mac only comes with a single year warranty.
I wish Apple bump the price by a small percentage, and include at least 2 years warranty, or even Apple Care by default. ( I know in EU this is included already ) We don't upgrade our Mac every 2 - 3 years any more. They have much longer life time. This will hopefully force Apple to think about design that is easier to repair for themselves, and much higher reliability so they do less repair.
Does every instance need to be tested in court? Seems ripe for unpredictable outcomes.
Unlikely to happen. People seem to love shelling out extra for AppleCare+ just like how they love to tip. They think they're getting a lot of extra bonus value because of it but really it's just like most extended warranties only this time it's for an expesive product that's not expected to last (in relation to its price).
How long does Apple provide warranty for devices in Australia?
> A reasonable period from date of delivery until the failure becomes apparent
> Without limiting consumers’ rights, Apple will provide its own remedies equivalent to those remedies in the consumer guarantee provisions of the Australian Consumer Law at any time within 24 months of the date of purchase. For the avoidance of doubt, Apple acknowledges that the Australian Consumer Law may provide for remedies beyond 24 months for a number of its products.
The 24 months that Apple provides is really a minimum as far as the law is concerned. For expensive "high quality" products such as the MacBook Pro, it's fair to expect that coverage should last longer than the 24 months that Apple tries to impose.
Contrary to popular belief, 2 years is not a hard limit and claiming such is borderline "illegal". See in particular the video (or transcript) within the last link there.
> For the avoidance of doubt, Apple acknowledges that the Australian Consumer Law may provide for remedies beyond 24 months for a number of its products
There's no doubt that saying there is a 24-month hard limit is illegal. Nothing borderline about it.
I worked at the Genius Bar in Sydney while Apple was going through all this trouble with the ACCC and they really stepped up their game in a big way, especially compared to other retailers in the country.
Not overblown at all. I sold my MacBook Pro and stopped using Macs all together after my third trip in two months to the "genius" bar due to sticking keys.
I think a few hours of wasted time for something so basic and fundamental as being able use your keyboard more than justifies some "outrage."
I work from home with an external keyboard and monitor and honestly might as well have a desktop for all the MBP leaves my room (and ancedatally) others with a similar usage pattern aren't having the issues.
Believe me, these keyboards are just terrible.
I agree with this sentiment. The last upgrade I got at work was very lackluster - I went from a 4-year-old MacBook Pro to a brand new one. I still have the same amount of RAM, and the work I do isn't usually processor constrained. It's functionally no different from what it replaced.
I do like the TouchBar and Touch ID though.
I can see some useful things about it. Deleting messages in Mail.app is a tap on the TouchBar vs Cmd-Delete, which is a bit of a wash. Switching months in Calendar.app is quicker and easier with the TouchBar. Access to the formatting options in Word and Outlook is nice.
On the downside though, I spend a lot of time (at work) with the computer plugged into two monitors and a USB keyboard. In this situation, the TouchBar is basically useless so that really limits how much it will get integrated into regular use.
Only within 4 years after sale. If I spend more than $2000 on a laptop, I expect it to last 7 years minimum.
It just feels like 16G Ram (the max for mac laptops) is going to be too slow in a couple years or so.
And come to think of it, it was also what I was wondering when I bought my desktop PC in 2012, and I'm still using that, too.
I'm not saying it's unreasonable or foolish to be concerned - far from it, given that the RAM can't be upgraded - but I still do wonder when the tipping point for this will actually be reached in practice. During my formative years, you were doing well to get 3 years out of a PC, and now here I am with a laptop that's that old, figuring it will last at least a couple more years...
In the past three years:
my MacBook has had replaced
- The screen
- The battery
- The keyboard
My iPad had it's screen replaced, and my iPhone had its battery replaced.
None of these are covered under AppleCare, they've all been replaced under individual recall programs.
Sure, they have fixed each issue for free, so that's fine, but for what is supposed to be the most dependable consumer hardware on the market, it's rather surprising.
Anecdotally, the most reliable Macs I've owned have been the new ones.
The least reliable Mac I've ever had was a 17" PowerBook. I got more than my money's worth out of AppleCare with that one.
Ordinarily, I'd go off about cheap Chinese build quality, but the Chinese will build to any spec and quality you are willing to pay for. Also, according to Coconut Identity, the machine was built in Ireland.
That's because they're not old enough yet to develop problems. Reliability can only be determined after some time has passed.
2011 MacBook Air
Plus an iLamp I can't properly estimate the year on. All chugging along. Let me know when to expect my MTBF.
That's not how it works. MTBF is a statistical thing it doesn't say anything about a particular device. Just like smoking can give you lungcancer and your 95 year old uncle smoking 3 packs a day is not evidence to the contrary.
Cost 6k and made in the USA.
I hate it with the intensity of a thousand suns. It is absolute trash (and we bought two :( Even worse than the v1 MacBook Air I stupidly bought.
The best Mac I owned was some old iMac 24” that lasted something like 7 years. We kept passing it down the family until the screen resolution wasn’t good enough anymore.
(I’m sure it will break the second I get home now that I said this)
Mr. Jobs famously said that Apple will do it's own thing, and the stock holders can come along for the ride, or get out. Mr. Cook's attitude seems to be more akin to a traditional industrial-era CEO, and not someone trying to further technology, the way his predecessor did.
A consistent problem in my 2010, 2012 and 2017 MBP's is reliable (i.e. not crashing) switching between the discrete and integrated GPU's. It was the death of the '10 after 2 logic boards, caused 1 logic board replacement on '12, and now on my '17 I still see regular (every couple weeks) spiral-into-non-responsiveness and core dumps exactly when those switches happen. I wish MacOS could still force to integrated GPU, I'd rather have slow graphics than give up battery life.
Same here. First the display ghosting issue, then a couple logic board swaps for GPU issues. Then the I/O board for USB issues. The top case for a trackpad problem, and then when I swapped the battery they had to replace the bottom case as well. By the end I think it was all new parts aside from the SSD.
> I wish MacOS could still force to integrated GPU
I use the free gfxCardStatus app to accomplish this
The previous generation aluminum MacBook Pro and AirBook tanks are the anomaly - not the other way around.
The problem here is that it is an awful keyboard design that should’ve been discovered before they shipped it. But I wouldn’t consider the MacBooks poor quality.
But you can:
> But I wouldn’t consider the MacBooks poor quality.
My previous machine, a late 2013 model, lasted 3 years or so without any real issues.
Obviously mine is a meaningless anecdote as well, but fitting a common pattern.
And how much time did it cost? I suppose like me, you have a backup computer to go to?
Otherwise, do people generally think that other computer manufacturers have't had issues, or that Apple is purposefully trying to have a lower quality product? Are people away of the amount of reliability testing that Apple does in house? It's easy to point an ignorant finger at them, but we're better than that. Where's the data?
If anything, the closest thing we have to data right now is what they say on their website: a small number of laptops have a malfunctioning keyboard. Is it even legal for them to say that if it really were most of them?
Is it legal to say that? It’s not a legal document so I would imagine so. I think it’s extremely misleading though. It’s clearly a defect in the keyboard itself or else Apple wouldn’t have issued a recall. It could just be that the people who haven’t been impacted have yet to get a crumb or spec of dust under a key.
My family and I have owned around 15 Macs over the last 20 years, and the 2016 MacBook Pro is by FAR the worst Apple computer I have ever owned. I can’t even think of another one that could even compete for that title.
Everyone I have spoken to who has a butterfly style MacBook (Pro) has also had problems with their keyboard.
My guess is that percentage wise when you compare the total number they have sold with the number that came in for repair it works out to a small percent, but that could also be because people live with the problem and don’t want to pay for a repair or give up their computer to Apple for a week to have it repaired.
I lived with my busted keyboard for about a year before finally bringing it in around a month ago to have it repaired.
Also keep in mind that a lot of people assume when technology is not working how they expect it to that it is something THEY are doing wrong (vs. a fault in the product or design) and they may be embarrassed to admit it or bring it in for repair.
I 100% agree that the total number they have for repair could be small for other reasons, but it's fair to say that we just don't know. I certainly know people who hate the touchpad, but not everyone I know has had issues with the butterfly style keyboard. So again, some form of data, but still inconclusive.
Also, regardless, sorry you had to go through the shitty keyboard =/. I hope whatever other computer you consider in the future is better. FWIW, I'm also debating whether the current generation of Macbooks is something I'm interested in, and I'm still not sure.
My biggest worry is that they will “fix” the keyboard problem by extending the touchbar to the entire keyboard area and renaming it the “Touch Board”.
You might expect problems from a 500-euros laptop, but not that your keyboard will stop functioning correctly after 2 months on a 1799-eur laptop.
Also, I brought my laptop at the Apple store thrice, and it broke again every single time. Last time, the logic board died, along with the SSD that is soldered to it and all data on it.
Repairs might be free, but who pays for the lost time and inconvenience of not having a computer? How much should one spend so that a laptop keeps typing after a few weeks?
My MBP lasted 5 months. Then I sold it for 1000EUR and sweared I'd never give Apple another dime.
Ironically, a 300-eur laptop with a regular keyboard that I was using as a substitute has been working great for years.
I also agree that you have to put in a decent effort to get things fixed, but you have to compare Apple to what the experience is like with other companies. I've definitely had situations that were very difficult to deal with over the phone, and situations where I had to send my laptop in for weeks in order for it to get fixed. What is the current standard for non-Apple computers, as far as getting things repaired?
(FWIW, I am also considering linux on lenovo)
What's your point though?
Do you want me to tell someone else's experience?