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Dungeons and Dragons: The revival of a 'geeky' pastime (bbc.co.uk)
113 points by pmoriarty on May 26, 2018 | hide | past | favorite | 50 comments



If people want to see what D&D can be when done by good players, don't look further than Critical Role. It's a bunch of voice actors playing D&D, who finished their multi-year campaign at the end of last year and started a new one at the beginning of this year. So they are dedicated to The game. The playlist is here https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL7atuZxmT955Cw-fFS-_3...


I can't get into Critical Roles style of play.

Where every hit is described in exquisite detail and one combat encounter feels like watching 9 innings of baseball.

Seriously, if it takes longer to "buy a torch" in a game than in real life, you're doing it wrong.


>Seriously, if it takes longer to "buy a torch" in a game than in real life, you're doing it wrong.

The only "wrong way" to play a game is when people aren't having fun. If people in a D&D game are super into the mechanics and roleplay of torch-buying, as a DM I'm going to run them a torch-buying game. Hell, I'd build an entire campaign around the growth and tribulations of a torch buying player empire.


I don't mind that style of roleplay much as I've always gamed with improv/actor types, but the guest appearances are what ruin it for me... (unpopular opinion warning) I find Wil Wheaton, Felicia Day and most of the other folks in their orbit to be unbearable. I physically cringe when they start talking.


I'm from the Mirror universe.

Felicia Day could play solitaire and I'd probably watch.

Wil Wheaton can never atone for Wesley Crusher, so there's some common ground.


>Wil Wheaton can never atone for Wesley Crusher, so there's some common ground.

I know this is more or less a Trekkie meme, but to be fair, Wil Wheaton didn't create Wesley Crusher or write his lines, he just had to make due with being Gene Roddenberry's Gary Stu.


Will Wheaton to someone calling for prayers for shooting victims:

“The murdered victims were in a church. If prayers did anything, they'd still be alive, you worthless sack of shit.”

He’s more despicable than the character he played.


>He’s more despicable than the character he played.

Despicable? He broadcast an emotional outburst and apologized for it later. That doesn't make him despicable, only human.

And besides, I think he's right.

And you left out the context[0] - that "someone" Wil was replying to was Paul Ryan. Calling for prayers for the victims of gun violence when you oppose attempts to address that violence in any practical manner is an insult to both the living and the dead. To me, that is despicable.

[0]https://twitter.com/wilw/status/927284357609353218?lang=en



I mean, you're the one who decided to bring up a tweet he made a year ago and call the man despicable in a thread about how disliked a fictional character he played on tv was, but ok... I guess we're the bigots...


Yes


A rare moment that we agree! :D


Yes! I got interested in roleplay through Critical Role.

But also don't expect your first games to look anything like it; voice actors who've played the game a lot create a very different dynamic to many game groups.

The cast of Critical Role are incredible — Matthew Mercer is a brilliant Dungeon Master and also one of the most humble and likeable personalities I've watched online.

If you have time to watch his Q&A here it's well worth it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCBfJBf-t2Y. I've never seen anyone open up and speak candidly to the internet quite like he does. (Summary: the video starts as an open Q&A about Critical Role and D&D and evolves into a pouring-his-heart-out reflection on his upbringing, his life, and what others can learn from his story.)


I think most of the players have not played a lot of dnd ie several decades. You can see Taliesin some times try and move the group back on track.

I do like some of the heavy duty role /character generation side of it. I do like the character generation side of roleplaying and coming up with an interesting background.

It was commented back in the late 70's that dnd players that came from traditional war games where much more into I habiting a different role that those that just started with DnD

Mat is a great DM I have found my self making notes whilst watching I currently do some DM of starfinder


Rusty Quill Gaming puts on an entertaining improv filled D&D podcast: http://rustyquill.com/rusty-quill-gaming/

I'm not affiliated with them, just good fun.



The Adventure Zone is quite good: http://www.maximumfun.org/shows/adventure-zone


I really enjoy the four orbs. You can listen to their podcast here:

http://fourorbs.org/episodes

I am not affiliated with them in any way.


I could be wrong, but I follow few podcasts about "the hobby" and seems like people my age got into it on early 90s and stopped playing on by the end of the decade.

Now we're in our 40s and technology makes it easier to get back into it. For example, there's a healthy gaming community in Google+ and hang outs are great for playing without moving from home, because finding a group to play in the same room is one of the factors that made me drop off.

Then there's all the DIY part of it, with lots of people releasing new games and modules. I guess that creativity was already there back when I started, but now is easier for people to share it.

One of the best communities in Google+ is "The Gauntlet". Look for it.


Or got into it in the 80's — and now our kids are into it.


Table top role-playing was never dead. It's just hip right now for some reason like anything "geek", since "geeks" now have money brands and the media try to cater to their tastes, the same media who painted them as "idiots with a useless hobby" for 30 years.


idiots? that would have been gentle. Most media painted geeks as antisocial and having serious mental issues.


Antisocial? The media tried to link D&D to satanic murders for years.


Yeah, before moving to video games as the new culprit.


Yes, welcome to 2018, where now we can judge you on a spectrum.


I think it's more about the generation who were kids in the 1st edition days getting to the point in their careers where they have influence and a platform.

So you get Stephen Colbert making D&D references, and Dan Harmon writing it into Community, Vin Diesel talking about getting Judi Dench to play while making a film, etc. And for every high-profile person like Colbert or Harmon there are probably a few people on their writing staff with a similar gaming background.


Some amount of this probably has to do with D&D 5e actually being good, too. 4e probably had the total number of players going down instead of up.


I mostly got the impression that 4e just drove people to Pathfinder. So even then the genre was likely still growing.


Some people did, but I knew of a couple groups that actually tried to play 4e and got sick of it and just quit after a couple months.


Not sure it's always about money and media. Maybe instead popular video games (AKA, 1st person shooters) are getting a little ... repetitive?


I used to play it a bit about 25-30 years ago. One of my best friends owns a comic shop, and we (a steady group of about 10 of us) used to go down there every Friday night and play various board and strategy games, D&D included every so often.

Then it all stopped when we started getting busy with work, getting married, transferring interstate etc.

But last year, one of our group passed away suddenly from cancer, and we were all at his funeral. We agreed then that we should start up the regular gaming nights again, even though we are all in our 40s and 50s now. Just last week we set up a Facebook group to start organising the games and to start planning characters for the next D&D night. It is good to play like carefree kids again.


It definitely gets a bit harder as people get busy family lifes et cetera. Our weekly games turned into perhaps monthly sessions at best, but we kept at it. One person moving to another country was also a hiccup, but it turns out it's quite doable to dial in with a good video connection if the will to continue is there.


In the 80s, I wrote at least four different versions of a character generator, all using the various PCs available at the time. For me it was like FizzBuzz.

Some of them got quite involved, with full-page printouts with all kinds of stuff on there. I even rented a booth at one of the early cons and attempted to sell them. (Along with another program that made custom crossword puzzles)

D&D was a happy part of my late childhood. Many good memories.


I don't know. I don't like the new DD (4 and 5 versions) which seem to emulate online mmorpg game mechanics with no emphasis on storytelling. I'd like to play an good old DD session (hacking, slashing, adventuring and mystery solving) but nowadays when I and the gang play we go diceless with almost no rules.


I think most groups just ignore 90% of the rules and focus on interactive story with chance elements. I've met very few people who play tabletop RPGs for the mechanics. It's actually a lot like scrum or lean manufacturing in the sense that blindly following the rules is the worst way to actually use the system. Though, I think nearly every D&D book says you're doing it wrong if you're not having fun.


> I've met very few people who play tabletop RPGs for the mechanics.

Most of the people I have played with were like that. Some branched out into tabletop boardgames, others just wanted to play the rules to "win" and the rest mostly gave up. This is the whole narratology vs ludology debate.


Agreed. The rules are there just to settle disputes or to corral players that want to test the limits of the DM's generosity.


As a DM, I kept the players in check by telling them that if they wanted to do such-and-such rule/thing, that the NPC's and monsters would also be able to do it. They backed down when they realized the rule would unbalance things.


AD&D 2nd Edition was as good as D&D ever got for me. THAC0 really wasn't that bad and they've really neglected a lot of the great settings since then. At least Ravenloft got some love finally.

5th edition is bearable and much less "play with minis" oriented than 4th was. 3/3.5 was the munchkin's wet dream.

If I want a storytelling game I reach for Burning Wheel/Torchbearer/Mouse Guard though -- depending on what kind of game my group wants to play.

And if people want high action, it's better to just run something else like Shadowrun, Feng Shui, or oldschool WoD games.


I felt the same about 4th edition. It was very streamlined and balanced, but everything felt too smooth and consistent (all classes used the same mechanics, for example). 5th edition, on the other hand, is very good. The rules remain simpler than in the old days of 3rd edition, but the classes and races feel distinct and charming again.


5th is way better than 4th though it is a bit nerfed and limits character customisation something CR avoids by a lot of home brew character options.

There are also some flat out nonsense rules i.e. I am standing next to some one on the floor holder a gun/heavy x bow - I am at a disadvantage to hit them!


When has D&D rules ever had an emphasis on storytelling?

Hell, trying to build a P&P RPG that focus on storytelling effectively kills the spirit of the game. Turning it into a game to tag team game masters.


Perhaps not an emphasis on story-telling, but definitely on role-playing. Back in my red and blue box days, and through years of 1st ed, the emphasis was on immersing yourself in character. Stories emerged from the setting and characters, but the focus, the fun, was about pretending to be a dwarf, elf, or wizard within that fantasy setting. That was layered on a game that was fundamentally about puzzle solving and resource management.

Later editions seemed to lose that, turning characters into game pieces and focusing far more on combat, tactics, and optimization and leaving less room for the roleplaying.


I'm sorry if you haven't played some of the better storytelling systems out there.

There are one-shot games like The Mountain Witch that are absolutely fantastic.


I'm going to go out on a limb here and attribute the spread of tabletop RPGs to easy access to beginner friendly materials such as D&D Beyond & Roll20. When I started playing one of my classmates fingered me for a nerd and asked if I'd like to play, they needed a Wizard to round out the party. I had heard of D&D but didn't know of anyone who played or had the books, a few weeks and a bunch of new friends (and Fireballs) later I was hooked. 10 years later I'm still playing and DMing, have dumped an ungodly amount of cash into books/minis and love a good Sorcerer. If that guy in chem hadn't of asked, it probably wouldn't have happened.

Simply having access to all the materials and content destroys one barrier to entry, the character builders streamlining and simplifying the arduous character creation process with all the Handbook & DMG content available for free. I love that with Beyond DMs can purchase various sourcebooks and share their books out to members of their campaign, unlocking different classes and content. It's reminiscent of everyone bringing their random modules/bootleg PDFs and getting doe-eyed over some new variant. With Roll20 there are so many groups from all skill ranges looking for players/DMs and while not as bonding as sharing a table loaded with snacks, It's enough to get a foot in the door.

If you're curious about RPGs start with something simple and easy to learn the rules of such as Modempunk or Paranoia. Get some friends together, chuck on the Hackers Soundtrack and unleash your inner Joey [1] :)

(Page 27)

[1] https://1d4chan.org/images/e/e8/JnJ_Modempunk_rightways.pdf


My group is playing Savage Worlds, and I've found it very easy to learn. The other guys are RPG veterans, but this is my first PnP campaign. The reason I feel SW is good for beginners is the high focus on storytelling and creativity, rather than endless stats and dice rolls. They're obviously still a part of the game, but the GM can really work with you if you are able to tie your actions to a good bit of storytelling. It makes it feel more like a shared story than a game, to me.


>It makes it feel more like a shared story than a game, to me.

And that's the entire crux of why D&D is special, it's not just grinding along squashing mobs and ripping through dungeons it's creating that shared experience in novel non scriptable ways. I feel like Paranoia takes this to a extreme where I can DM sessions where only a handful of die are even cast and the rest is all interactive storytelling!

A DMs style must fit the player, this is one thing that will make or break a players RPG experience.


G&S did a one off of a paranoia game Felicia day is scary good https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWEDpT1gByI


Always happy to bring more people into the fold.

My friend group pooled our money in middle school to get a single copy of the 3.5 players handbook, and boy did we make use of it. I loved that you could play nearly anywhere, we usually played in the library (the librarian was nice and let us chat quietly) because we were broke though. We made some amazing stories, and still joke over all the dumb stuff we did that had ridiculous consequences (ie, "remember that time you forgot that burning hands had an area effect and got the whole team killed b/c you angered the Ranger's pet and then it started attacking everyone?")

I actually still play with two of those friends every week, more than a decade later. It kinda stinks to have to use Skype, but it's better than not playing at all. So yeah, Dnd is a wonderful, friendship strengthening hobby that I recommend to anyone with some patience and creativity.


Another recent, fun take on the history of D&D https://reason.com/archives/2018/04/07/the-radical-freedom-o...




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