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I switched from iPhone to the Pixel 2: One-week report (dogsnog.blog)
321 points by dogweather 9 months ago | hide | past | web | favorite | 471 comments

My whole family (parents, sister & her kids, wife & our kids) have switched to iPhones (and macos devices) years ago.


1. no "technical" issues anymore. As the go to IT guy in the family this alone is worth the supposed premium price one pays for the Apple logo.

2. Everything is updated, at all times.

3. "Facebook logs my sms" are a none issues

4. All devices die of old age (even the devices that have since long not recieved updates "just work")

5. Nothing beats the quality of Facetime (we live all over the globe and use it extensively to celebrate and share together).

I still buy a couple of Androids per year. Cheapish phones for experiments with wardriving, imsi catcher catchers and other fun projects. So I totally get the "Android is outselling iPhones", thing is that we spend x moneys in the iTunes shop, and not a dime in the Google store.

We've also moved out contact data out to google (since gmail is just absolutly the only email one ever needs and having synced contacts is wonderfull) together with the google photo app (since it is free and does a great job while migrating between devices).

Now if only there was a way to painlessly move from one iPhone to the next, we would be exchanging them far more often. But no matter what I've tried: one always looses certain passwords / content / settings from different apps.

I've got to say I have the exact opposite experience. It got to the point I now don't do apple/iphone support for family. The number of itunes issues, osx keystore issues, technical issues with phones was taking a lot of time, and user issues with the iphone never ended.

My parents, sisters, and any aunts/uncles nearby that I support are all on windows 10 with android phones.

My results.

1. Time spend supporting family 1/10th compared to before. Android phones just work for us, update often and cost less so the occasional "OMG I dropped my phone and its broken" issues pretty much went away.

2. Android phones are all running the latest OS, give or take a minor update (usually stick with google or samsung flagship or mid-range models). Updating doesn't brick or blow away app settings or cause issues for users.

3. Never had this issue, but most of my family doesn't use facebook on their phones.

4. I have yet to have an apple product last more than 2-3 years. My last iphone lasted 1.5 years before it started randomly crashing/glitching. My current android is 2 years in without any issues.

5. Skype/Duo works great for my family. There is a subset of the family that uses facetime, they don't talk to the rest of us as often anymore.

I use apple products for work. I tend to get a HW replacement for laptops every 18-24 months due to HW failures, I'm on my 4th laptop in 6 years all due to HW issues.

Sometimes its got to be just luck. we have almost exact opposite experiences

> There is a subset of the family that uses facetime, they don't talk to the rest of us as often anymore.

To me, this is one of the greatest shortcomings of video chat. We went from a universal phone system to a mostly universal SMS system (most private networks still supported SMS) to a segregated video chat system, and it hurts relationships if you're not careful.

And that is entirely Apple's fault.

That is one of my main frustrations with Apple: In order to compel more people to use their platform, they made a proprietary communication service, and preloaded it on all of their devices. Now I have to deal with this arbitrary segregation, just because some corporation decided it would help their bottom line.

This is exactly the kind of practice rms warned us about decades ago, and there is nothing any individual can do about it.

> And that is entirely Apple's fault.

If Skype didn't suck so much it could be the cross platform standard.

Google Duo works just fine on iPhones.

The problem is that it isn't preinstalled, while iMessage and Facetime are.

Apple tries very hard to convince its users that its practices are not the problem, but those who choose not to use Apple products. Anything that doesn't come preinstalled is seen as an unnecessary inconvenience by most iPhone users.

Given that the app is free, and that people are willing to install apps their friends recommend, I don't think this is much of a barrier.

WhatsApp doesn't seem to have this issue, for instance.

> I don't think this is much of a barrier.

Unfortunately, many iOS users do, and Apple cultivates that attitude as its culture.

No, they just prefer what iOS provides, or they don't know many people who use WhatsApp. For all it's popularity elsewhere, here in the States, WhatsApp is not used very much.

I've never downloaded WhatsApp, mainly because I don't know anyone who's on it. That's a bigger barrier than anything being preinstalled.

Skype was the 'goto' for a long time, but then facetime came out and it split the family into apple users and the rest of us.

I had apple products as well as others, I chose the rest of the family anyways :p

We had video chat before the iPhone. It's part of the UMTS standard and was one of the major selling points when the carriers rolled it out in the early 2000's. I don't know much about its technical merits, it would surprise me if it was any good using today's standards, but it was cross platform and could have been built upon if the two new mobile OS makers had been interested. But since the iPhone didn't even have UMTS when it was launched it's no surprise Apple didn't include support for it.

I am sure the cell carriers would have been excited to charge a very hefty premium for that service, if anyone bothered to use it.

Strange. My 2012 iMac and MBA are humming along just fine. And they're refurbs. My "bought as new" stuff has been just fine as well. I still have an iPhone 5s that, save for the old battery, works normally.

I haven't encountered a bricked phone via an updated iOS, but I have had android folks who weren't running flagships try to get the latest OS, and brick their phones.

Lastly, when I do have an issue, the apple customer service has just been too good to me over the years. My friend dropped my phone recently, and unluckily for me, it landed on a metal rail, damaging the sleep button. But Apple replaced the phone for free. As well as a wireless keyboard my coworker had me bring in. I had no receipt for that one, but it took too long for them to locate a buyable replacement of that particular model, so the CSR just gave me a newer model, for free. YMMV of course, but they seem empowered to do far more than typical companies.

But this is all pointless; we can go round and round with anecdotes all day.

While I've had issues with macbook pro's and 2 older iphines (all new when given to me), that's really the extent of my personal experiences. I've heard good things about them from others, so assume my experiences are a-typical.

I've never dealt with an apple support person, all my interaction has been through my companies tech staff who are competent.

Specific to apple hardware, it just seems better than the average windows/linux/android hardware, but you pay for it and can often find equivalently good hardware for a similar or less premium.

at the end of the day, use what your family IT guy will support for free, and if you're an IT guy, use what you like.

I do agree that Macs are built with quality. After the 5S, iPhones are not worth the premium you pay for them.

Take a look at what someone who repairs them on a regular basis says about Apple's quality: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUaJ8pDlxi8 .

Moral of the story: anecdotes are not evidence.

This, in it self, seems like a generalization of an anecdote.

My anecdotal evidence has been the opposite. My daughter has always been an Apple user and she has had so many more issues with her phone. Either she never upgraded her phone due to storage limitations because she refused to uninstall certain apps. He screen twice has twice peeled off. The battery expanded and now it glitches every hour but she is stuck because there is NO HEAD PHONE JACK. So she keeps saying do I buy a new phone but I want a head phone jack.

My parents both ditched their iPhones before the plus came out due to size and eye sight. They haven't gone back to an iPhone plus.

Video Conference: Best in class I would say is Google Duo. It is dead simple and works across all devices.

Apple's weakness: Siri. Now as an adult I don't use voice commands much but both my two youngest 11 and 7 and their friends use voice commands all day long (On my computer and Google Home). I see this being a big issue if they don't fix this in about 3 or 4 years. We see a big upswing in voice commands and Google's recognition has a 95% recognition rate is about on par with humans ability to carry a conversation. http://www.kpcb.com/internet-trends

Siri is definitely Apples biggest weakness, but the headphone jack? The phone comes with a little adapter. If you're a person who has tons of nice headphones laying around, but a couple more adapters and call it a day. Is it a bit of inconvenience at first? Sure, but don't act like there is no way to plug in headphones or that it's the end of the world.

And Duo? I'm a tech person and I can't keep all of the Google communication options straight. iMessage and FaceTime are dead simple and work.

Finally, if your daughter is having that many issues take it into an Apple store. I know there are anecdotes of bad service at Apple stores, but by and large the service they provide is great.

Royally disagree with the headphone jack. That is a huge issue that I don't ever see an end to. You never know when you need a headphone jack and there is no realistic way to carry an adapter all the time. And that is even if I'm willing to buy $100 worth of worthless adapters and do my best to sprinkle them out in my life.

Friends car? Stereo in the summer vacation house?

Buying bluetooth headphones doesn't mitigate this in any sense.

Another important argument which is brought up in this excellent EFF article is how Bluetooth allows for DRM.


> Friends car? Stereo in the summer vacation house?

I regret finally "jumping ship" and getting an Iphone 8 plus soley because of this. I am experiencing the exact same thing with the f___king stupid MBP and needing to carry a dongle on me at all times in order to present. It's absolutely infuriating.

After holding off for so long (Iphone 8 plus was my first iphone), and having androids since Samsung Galaxy S3, my recent phone was a Note and I really don't get what I was missing out on. I really miss my swype keyboard, the apple keyboard is an absolute pain, and it's "AI" autocorrect is worthless. Siri is worthless. Facetime was the only appeal and even that has been minimized now.

With the direction they went with the IPhone X screen real estate, this will without a doubt be my first and last IPhone I ever buy.

Check out GBoard for iOS, it's the google keyboard that supports swype

My friends never have the aux cord with them.

I carry one of these on me: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00MJMV0GU/ref=sspa_dk_detail_0?ps... when I travel to a summer vacation home.

Never have an issue.

Many stereos and cars should accept Bluetooth connections by now, so I’m not sure what the problem is.

1. Many more don't. Home stereos typically don't. Regular radios typically don't.

2. Bluetooth is pure crap, the UX for connecting and managing temporary devices is absolutely insane on all devices. This is something you do on your own car but is a major hassle to setup for temporary occasions. And hardly something that is done on a whim just to demo something. It is just that bad.

And this is even before considering compatibility issues and security issues, of which there are plentiful. And cars also have this habit of trying to harvest all your contacts etc. (Wonder how many contacts are floating around in rental cars... sigh)

Agree, bluetooth is a knock-out factor for me. I refuse to use it, it's been a total PITA any time I've tried.

same, when it decides to work, it can work well, but most the time it doesn't, or is a hassle. My car just refuses my phone for some reason.

cable > connect > go. Every time without fail

The problem is that people want a headphone jack.

More stereos and cars don't have BT than do (significantly many more in my experience). Bluetooth pairing is a faf compared to just plugging in a jack, and many devices still only remember pairing with two devices or just one so your friend may have to repair when you are done. Double adaptors (I still see people sharing a single audio source on headphones that way) are a thing with simple audio jack that there isn't a BT solution for (at least when I've tried phones won't play down two BT audio sinks at the same time).

I've used the audio jack on my phones only a couple of times in the last year or so as I do use BT for general headphone use, but that is a couple of times more than zero and in all those cases BT would not have been an option.

Of course the obvious answer is: if you want a jack and Apple doesn't provide one on their devices then switch allegiance - but a lot of people feel tied to Apple for other reasons (lock in through apps they'd have to repurchase on Android, lock-in through add-on device compatibility, or just the extra usability that comes from personal or group familiarity) and would like to stay without losing that feature.

Another option is bluetooth receivers, which can be bought quite cheaply these days: pair one of those with your iDevice and plug other devices into that when needed. That is an extra device (a very small one, but still an extra) to carry around and remember to keep charged and I doubt it will happen much because people won't even carry charging adaptors around with them (the amount of times I've have the look that suggests it is my fault that someone can't borrow my portable battery because their device doesn't follow the same standard as everything else and they didn't bring an adaptor!)

The real answer here is to use the lightning -> 3.5mm adapter which comes with the iPhone, I believe.

Maybe that adapter gets so popular that a phone designer comes up with the revolutionary idea of integrating it into the phone itself.

Those who were around during the days of early 'home computers' - think Commodore bread boxes, Sinclair door stops etc - might remember the evolution from those devices which generally lived in a jungle of cords emenating from their sides and backs, connecting them to power supplies and peripherals to the more streamlined versions which came later - Commodore 128D, Amstrad all-in-ones, various species of MSX and yes, the original Apple Macintosh - which had most of the essentials built-in. Having one of those on your desk really separated you from the plebs who still lived in the jungle.

Apple seems to have forgotten that part of its heritage.

IIRC you can't charge at the same time as using the included one, and need to pay extra for the bulkier one that allows charging and use of a 3.5mm jack at the same time.

That is OK much of the time, but a faf is you want use your iDevice for music while working for some hours or while mobile for long enough that you might normally plug in a portable battery.

Unless they've started including the two function adaptor as standard but that will irritate people who don't want the extra bulk...

They do not include that one as standard, as far as I know.

If you are someone who charges your phone while listening to music on a regular basis, then I can see the lack of headphone jack being an issue.

The real solution for that problem, in my opinion, is to just put two USB C or two lightning ports on the phone. They have much more usage than a 3.5mm port. Two places to charge from, charge and have external storage attached, etc.

But then I cannot plug my headphones into my brand new laptop...

You forgot the /s

But I cannot plug my headphones AND charge my phone.

Well, you could remove the headphones from the adapter and plug them into your laptops 3.5mm port.

If Apple was using USB C like they should be, then you could just plug them straight into that port.

Most devices can't remember more than 1 phone at a time, so you have to continually put the thing back into pairing mode. Every device has a different way of putting it into pairing mode. Sometimes there's a code to type, adding an additional step. Then it's several clicks on the phone to connect to the device.

Plugging in a cable is often a lot simpler, and it works every time.

I'm willing to believe that you never know when you need a headphone jack but most people actually do know when they will need a headphone jack.

Going on a plane? Probably bring an adapter. Like to listen to music in your car? Keep an adapter in your car. Listen to music at work? Keep an adapter at work.

> Going on a plane? Probably bring an adapter. Like to listen to music in your car? Keep an adapter in your car. Listen to music at work? Keep an adapter at work.

So, I should have travel, car & work adapters instead of a working, non-proprietary, universal standard?

Headphone jacks work. They work really well. There's nothing wrong with them, and they don’t need replacement.

Bluetooth sometimes works, and sometimes doesn’t. It tends to lag. It’s just … not that great.

You can if you don't want to keep track of a single adapter. I personally have two, one for the car and one for everywhere else.

You can blame Apple for using lightning if you have problems with non universal, non proprietary standards. USB C is both universal and non proprietary. It's even capable of sending analog audio exactly like the 3.5mm port does so you don't need an adapter with a DAC in it, just a USB C -> whatever you want to plug your phone into cable.

That said, most phones (including my Pixel 2) don't support that feature and require an external DAC in the adapter. I only bring it up because many people don't seem to realize that USB C is capable of doing anything the 3.5mm port can do.

>Headphone jacks work. They work really well. There's nothing wrong with them, and they don’t need replacement.

The PS/2 ports worked for your mouse and keyboard. They did have some issues but I would be okay with saying that they worked really well. They didn't need to be replaced with USB. They were replaced with USB anyways. That's the whole point of USB. It's universal. As long as USB is capable of transmitting audio then there is no reason to keep the 3.5mm port around. It's redundant.

Everything I need is in my backpack. There is seriously no place for a selection of different dongles.

I understand it may is a non issue for some people, for others however it is not even a real option.

Almost every modern car now has USB or bluetooth, even cheap entry level compact cars.

> Friends car? Stereo in the summer vacation house?

Bluetooth speakers are pretty much ubiquitous nowadays. I don't think I've seen an aux cord in 2 years.

Why should a tech company design for old tech? Do you also dislike monitors that don't have VGA just in case? I'm not saying there are scenarios where that would be an issue. But I think you overestimate the issues and most people really don't care.

Not everyone lives in your world.

> Why should a tech company design for old tech?

a) Apple isn't a tech company, it's a style / aspiration company that sells some bits and bobs that occasionally are high-tech, and b) 3.5mm headphone jacks have been around since the 1950's -- so presumably this was 'old tech' when Apple first came up with the iPod ... and yet ... and yet, they still put this 'old tech' into every device since then, up until the last iteration of their mobile phone. 'Old tech' is a canard.

(I'm not a fan of apple, but) I wouldn't say "Apple isn't a tech company". Even a little. They design their own chips, software, and hardware, and sometimes push the tech industry (independent of whether or not they're subjectively innovative). Their success definitely comes from their marketing and design, but that's practically the norm for tech companies.

>Not everyone lives in your world.

Exactly, sometimes I think people forget not everyone owns the latest and greatest of each and every product category.

For example, I finally gave in and bought a Pixel 2, but I've also held onto my '03 Jetta and still use a cassette adapter to play music. I'm used to shuffling cassette adapters between vehicles, so I speak from experience when I say that buying extra adapters or always having one on hand is too much of a hassle and I'll end up stuck with just the radio on occasion.

Even if I were to get a new car with bluetooth, I'd still be hosed in: my SO's car ('06 Rav4), my parents' cars ('99 Wrangler and '02 A6), my best friend's car (Saturn Ion), and my sister's car (older Impreza). In fact, the only car I'm ever in that has bluetooth is my brother-in-law's Mazda. Even solely looking at playing music in the car, I'd still need an adapter the overwhelming majority of the time. Now maybe my circle hangs onto cars longer than average, but I don't think it's too far off the norm.

My last 3 cars had Bluetooth in them. Each had some kind of issue with it. For some reason car manufacturers put in crap that's anywhere between incompatible and randomly failing when connecting to flagship phones. And there's no real way to report an issue back to then. So they do have Bluetooth and I still use the aux cable with them.

A typical interaction with bluetooth audio on both my iPhone 6 and Pixel 2 goes like this:

Press pause

Wait 5 seconds

Press pause again, only the original pause has now registered finally, and turned back into a play button, so the audio is playing again.

Turn on NPR instead.

Bluetooth has quality issues compared with an AUX cable unless you're using the fancy codecs that aren't supported by most devices.

Also, anecdotally, I drive a Chevy from 2012 with no bluetooth for anything but answering calls. Cars without bluetooth are still very common.

Bluetooth is lossy compression. There are plenty of reasons to still stick with AUX and the 3.5mm jack. It does make a difference in sound quality. Additionally if I'm traveling and forget my headphones, it will cost me $5 to get a pair to get me through the week. Bluetooth headphones are more expensive.

There is a guy who was able to fit a 3.5mm jack in his iPhone X. They just chose not to do it. It's not like having a 3.5mm jack excludes you from also having Bluetooth technology. We've had both in phones for years. Apple just wanted to sell more air pods. I'm not hating on Apple, they're a business, but to act like Bluetooth is a strict upgrade is just blatantly wrong and I will continue to use my AUX jack.

The reason the headphone jack had to die was so they could waterproof it.

There are waterproof jacks...

There were waterproof phones with headphone jacks before the iPhone X. See some of the Samsung Galaxies as an example.

The simple fact that, with my not-so-old iPhone 7, I cannot listen to wired headphones and also charge the device is ridiculous.

You're right about the headphone jack for day-to-day use, but there are edge cases everywhere. I was at a birthday celebration a few weeks ago where someone wanted to play a song from their phone. But they couldn't, because they didn't have the adapter and neither did the DJ. I mean, these things happen. But it used to be the case that we had one, universal plug that would work with everything, and I miss that already.

Usually a DJ will request the file to import into the playlist so they don't get disruptions to playback from texts, phone calls, etc. I'd say it sounds like they found a polite way of telling that person "no".

I also wonder if anyone considered sending the media over another protocol. There's BT, NFC, IR, MMS, OTA, Wifi, sharing sites, etc. And if the DJ had 1/4", XLR, USB, HDMI, optical, SPDIF, or RCA, then they'd still have needed adapters, splitters, or converters.

None of my audio equipment has 1/8" inputs, so I'm about as sympathetic to the universal argument as I was when cars stopped having CD-audio players and roughly as optimistic in our ability to get over this as a people.

Head phone jack is a big issue.

I have no desire to keep one on me at all times on the off chance that I will need it.

I just stop listening to music or using the device for that use case.

Basically dropping the functionality of the phone significantly, unless I’m home or near my tech storage locker.

This is assanine design.

...and you can't charge the damn thing while using the headphones... what the hell?

Get a Belkin dual lightning/3.5mm adapter. Look. I personally think this is typical Apple removing a legacy connector a beat or two too soon. But $50 or so in adapters later I have zero issue.

> But $50 or so in adapters later I have zero issue.

Yep, sounds like an Apple product.

Why not just keep the dongle attached to your headphones?

That's what you do. But what if you have several headphones? (I can barely realistically buy an extra adapter for my phone, never mind the ridiculous cost)

I've got two headphones (good sound or active noise cancellation) that I use and every single day I have to keep extra track of the adapter to make sure that I didn't leave it with the other pair - that's even if I don't use it. I mostly use it for long calls but that's typically just once a week.

But even that doesn't save you from times where you don't bring any headphones but still want to listen in your car or any other scenario. Has happened multiple times to me already despite all that hassle.

Also, a big use case is to listen to music while charging your phone at work etc. With an adapter that isn't possible.

The headphone adapters from Apple and Google cost $9 dollars each. If you can afford to buy a $700 phone, you can afford to spend $30 bucks on some extra adapters if you want them. In most cases, at least. I suppose availability of the adapters might be an issue in some areas as well.

Yeah, exactly. $20 doesn't even cover shipping costs. And doesn't solve the problem of having to bring it all the time.

I need to literally spend $50 to be seriously inconvenienced because the manufacturer wanted to save $0.2 ?

Also, no. We still have some to wait before anyone produces a $700 phone worth the money.

To be honest, if I can afford a 700 dollar phone, I can far more easily afford a 500 dollar older phone which has a headphone jack.

I don’t need the irritation of managing extra jacks for an obvious attempt to force me to give up a standard configuration.

No thanks.

My main headphones are huge audiotechnicas which I couldn’t wear in a car or at work without it being a massive pain.

It’s a massive pain.

Which headphones?

And then, when you want to plug them into an (even Apple) laptop, you detach the adaptor and forget to bring it with you.

That is true of the iPhone adapters but a USB C adapter with a DAC inside will work with any laptop that has a USB C port.

So that draws power and does that work with all phones? That's quite the "workaround".

It will work with any phone or PC with a USB C port as long as the OS supports USB audio devices. As far as I know, all the major OS's support those. Even iOS if you have a lightning -> USB adapter.

Technically it draws power but it's not going to use more power than an internal headphone jack does. They are both just a DAC and a small headphone amp. The only difference is that one is inside the device and one is outside the device.

In a few years, once the idea of having a device without a USB C port seems strange, headphones and AUX cables will probably just come with a DAC/amp built in to them and nobody except audio enthusiasts will care about not having a 3.5mm port on their device. That is, if Apple decides to embrace USB C on iOS devices which I think they will.

"It will work". Just as bluetooth? Humanity has serious issues getting serial to work over USB, yet this will just work? Across all OSes? We can't even make USB-C CABLES correctly, but THIS is a sure thing? Even the cheap ones everyone will buy? Or the expensive ones that has the same hardware but a nicer box/cable?

We won't have apple compatible cables, android compatible cables etc.? We won't have situations where that popular brand of "cables" doesn't work on new Samsungs/xxx?

Let's pretend that will be the case this time around?

Honestly I think audio enthusiasts are the only users for which that isn't the most absurd idea ever. Audio enthusiasts could use a decent DAC and for the first time combine regular hardware (wide selection of phones) and still get decent output. For everyone else though a headphone jack would be several orders of magnitudes better and cheaper. And guess what, it just works. I know people have done their darndest to make the microphone over 3.5mm experience as miserable as possible but despite that we still have/had a universal way to transmit stereo audio.

There are no decent alternatives even on the horizon. There haven't been brought up a single argument for the removal of it other than it isn't so bad to spend 10% of the device on adapters that you always need to carry. Seriously?

In this case, it will actually just work. People have been using USB audio DAC's since at least 2002. Unless you're using something aimed at professional musicians with a lot of inputs and outputs, it's just plug and play with class compliant drivers. Linux, MacOS, Windows, Android, and iOS all just work.

Obviously, until Apple switches to USB C, we will have separate USB C and lightning cables. That's inconvenient.

The argument for removal is that it's redundant. The USB or lightning port can transmit audio, so remove the 3.5mm and suddenly you have more space inside the phone to put stuff and it's probably slightly cheaper/easier to water proof.

edit: I feel compelled to mention that 3.5mm has issues as well. Cheap 3.5mm cables are often slightly too large or slightly too small which cause contact issues and wear on the port over time. Dirt/fuzz get pushed down into the port sometimes. Scratches or dirt can make the connection bad and cause noise when moving the plug. For a while we didn't have a standard TRRS configuration but I think we figured that one out now, for the most part. You can actually buy a 3.5mm TS cable which is missing a channel on the normal TRS or TRRS and therefore will not work, while looking almost identical to the correct cable.

> The argument for removal is that it's redundant.

That is it? That just can not be the reason. Even if that were true it doesn't make the slightest sense to force this change overnight. Most phones doesn't even have USB-C.

Course you have more space- people aren’t using the phone for that use case anymore.

My phone upgrade is now always going to be an iPhone 6 Or I move to Android.

Add to that, we can't even make passive USB-C to 3.5mm adapters properly!

But even that doesn't matter now when the Pixel 2 (etc.) has been released without even an internal DAC. People buy these overpriced passive adapters but they obviously won't work, so people leave 1-star reviews and have to return the cables.

This is a fuckup of epic proportions.

Passive USB-C to 3.5mm are the problem and should be avoided, in my opinion.

A USB-C to 3.5mm with a DAC inside can be used in any USB C port. A passive adapter will only work in some USB C ports. I don't expect USB C ports on laptops will ever have a DAC behind them.

The problem is that USB-C for audio doesn't solve any problem.

Obviously you'd use the 3.5mm jack on your laptop.

I have one pair of nice headphones. One. The adapter is an inconvenience I don't need. I've had my iPhone 7 for a year and this is still a vexing issue.

If you have one pair of headphones then leave the adapter connected to them.

Every other device doesn't need the adapter. So I have to manage keeping track of the adapter, still. No thank you.

If they are really nice, then the cord is removable, and you can buy the Lightning-to-headphone jack cord which is now available.

Boom. Solved.

I agree Google has screwed up the choice of communication offerings. But from a use case point, one can very well argue why need one for messaging and one for talking (iMessage and Facetime). Instead WhatsApp does everything in one - dead simple. (In fact, Skype did this too but they never properly capitalized).

My kids will use voice on Fire TV to search for shows. Other than that, I can't recall seeing anyone use a voice assistant with sincerity.

The iPhone SE has a headphone jack. The latest leaks seem to indicate that the upcoming SE 2 will also. But perhaps the screen size is too small for kids.

Jack is overrated. I have it and don't use it at all after buying airpods.

So apple removes a part that costs less then a cent and gets you to purchase $180 headphones? I don't mean to be snarky, by having to swap adapters and no option from Apple to charge and use headphones at the same time irritates me. My iPhone 7 might force me back to android after really liking my iPhone 6.

As an iPhone user, I'm holding out for the rumors I've heard about another revamped iPhone SE that will include a headphone jack.

I mean they didn't force me to - i also have a 6. But after trying them out I instabought them and have no regrets. Its amazingly convenient, so light you can easily forget about them, okayish sound and I basically use them most of the day via phone or laptop and I can't go back to any kind of wired in-ear headphones anymore.

Not using something you don't have doesn't mean you wouldn't use it if you did. And even if you wouldn't, your needs are not the same as absolutely everyone elses.

This argument would be like me saying I don't know why people would want a car. I don't have one, and I walk or cycle or use public transport so don't use the one I don't have.

For those cases there is an adapter included. About that last part - it's kinda what I think actually. In most cases you can rent a car if you really need _a car_, or choose other options otherwise.

When my 80 year old dad went from Android to iPhone, the mistakes went up and his ability to get things done went down. Cognitively, he's the same, so it's not that. Maybe he was ruined by using Android first.

For example, he never used to send texts to my home phone number. Now half of them are, though I seem to have got him to switch to email.

He still can only send me pictures from his phone about 1 out of 4 times now.

These discussions are not very useful, because they are based anecdotal evidence.

Just to offer a counterpoint: my mother never used a computer and is non-technical, but she manages great with her iPad (she does chat, Facetime, and web browsing). She had a couple of hand down Android phones (IIRC, Moto E, Moto G, and later a Samsung Galaxy Note 4). The Android phones were very confusing to her and she had difficulty contacting anyone while on the go. She recently got an iPhone and she manages without trouble.

The problem is that there are a so many factors: prior experience (my mom used an iPad before), extremely small sample sizes, biases (if you are an iOS fan you like to believe that iDevices work better for your loved ones), etc.

There are only some aspects that we can objectively evaluate (iDevices get security updates for longer periods, iDevices typicaly get more frequent updates). When it comes to usability, you can only get meaningful information from large samples.

"These discussions are not very useful, because they are based anecdotal evidence."

This is true of practically every comment on this site!

I disagree. I have learned a lot from technical discussions on HackerNews.

I think that was meant to be ironic; there's a lot of value in anecdotes.

For scientific research maybe, but I'm sure you're aware that usage "anecdotes" (i.e. use cases) are part of the basis of designing a user experience.

And anecdotes are useful for learning about phenomena deserving real investigation. E.g. it's been very interesting to learn that there do exist non-techie people who have a harder time with Apple devices.

My parents almost solely used windows. I had an old macbook and gave it to them and they had a very hard time adjusting to the new UI, they kept asking for the Start menu.

Remember when Windows 8 came out and people were asking for the start menu?

> Cognitively, he's the same, so it's not that.

When did he learn android? It's much harder for older people to learn new things especially when they're used to something else.

Good question. He started on the iPhone. Then, after a few years switched (I never knew the reason). Now, switched back. He has never understood the difference between a text and an email (I think a lot of non-techs have this issue, TBH), so that's likely part of the problem sending pics.

He's 3,000 miles away and doing support for him over the phone doesn't really work. So, I've sort of stopped trying. My step sister is smart, so I'm guessing he does it for her now. Of course, when I'm visiting, he unloads a bunch of questions on me and I try to explain the best I can. He suffers from what a lot of non-techs suffer from: they want the fish, not for you to tell them how to fish. I've tried to explain this to him and my SO, but I get that "why are you being an asshole?" look, even though I make the offer in the nicest possible way.

Funnily enough when I introduced my parents and grandma to Linux (Ubuntu 2013/14) they all went from nagging me constantly with small issues to bashing on how shitty Windows was.

IMO a good ui concept doesn't need explanation. However many people never know because they never used one.

My mother switched to an iPhone about a year ago - mainly so that she could 'text' with my son who has an iPod.

Overall, that being her first 'smart phone' (she used to have a blackberry), she's made quite the transition, seamlessly. She doesn't have any problems and was even able to get CarPlay working with just a short phone call walking her through the first plug-in process.

We FaceTime, she's been using emoji's, group messages just fine (she used to not realize if she was sending a group response/personal, etc), sharing pictures (live photos), etc. My point is, she's not very 'technical' - but the iPhone seemed to ease her into 'tech' smoothy. Now that's not saying an Android couldn't also have done the same - just one anecdotal point where the iPhone was successful in a technology-based transition.

I did the same thing a few years ago when I finally dropped Sprint for Verizon. Seven phones in total over two accounts, and things have never been better. Previously it was a mix of feature phones, iPhones and Androids, all with various versions of things and features, and a headache for me as the de facto helpdesk. Now, everyone is happy, all the devices are the same, and tech support is so much easier. I'm even considering running OS X Server for some light MDM to really automate the remainder of my problems away. Most, if not all, of our extended family are also on iPhones, so FaceTime is a breeze, and iCloud Photo Albums are the assumed way of sharing things - when they made it such that anyone could add to an album, it was a game changer.

I use a google suites account for basic MDM features on a family of iPhones. Tried the osx server route on a mac mini and it certainly had 100x more control, but I found I really only needed the basics that were available in the admin panel.

I've had the same experience with my immediate family (siblings, parents, in-laws). A few years ago, I made pretty clear that if their next phone wasn't an iPhone, they were on their own with regards to support. I set up iCloud backup (with a premium storage tier) and installed ESET NOD32 on every computer that I "support." There hasn't been a single "support call" in 3 years (aside from hardware and forgotten passwords).

It sounds cold, but now I actually get to enjoy time with family instead of being bombarded with technical questions. They're also less frustrated with their devices.

I can confirm that we had the same issue with my family. I switched them all to Apple hardware since they would complain of lost Wifi on their Laptops and confusing functionality on Android. Now that everyone has MacBook Airs and iPhone 6s, I have not heard complaints from anyone.

These days, it's about using Google Drive (who really owns a shared file?)

1. I don't understand, why would Android phones have more technical problems than Android? I don't recall experiencing any major problems in 8 years of having android phones, and I've even experimented with custom ROMs and kernels and the like.

2. Granted, updates are an issue. Not with very popular and/or Google-supported phones, like the pixel.

3. Why so? How do you know fb doesn't spy on your sms?

4. Do they? Or do they stop working because updates cripple older phones' performance and battery to make you buy new ones?

5. Pure marketing nonsense.

I would really like to know the answer to that ("why"). My most recent experience is with a Motorola Nexus 6 -- worked great for the first couple years after I got it. But recently a lot of things have been really glitchy. For example, Android Auto takes about 15 minutes to come fully alive, find my position, and plot a route when I plug it into my car. And video playback started stuttering bad. And the CPUs were maxed out periodically

I've uninstalled all third-party apps, cleared cache, and that fixed the issues for about a week, then they all came back. Only thing I didn't do is reflash back to factory defaults. Bought a Pixel 2 to replace it, and am wondering how long it will last.

BTW, this has also been the same experience with several family members, mostly with Samsung android phones -- they work great for a couple years, then start slowing down.

1: An example? Android's aggressive wifi roaming is... just not working.

2: Updates are an issue, even with popular phones.

3. The Facebook app on IOS can NOT read my sms on IOS. Yes it can and does on Android.

4: Age, I know since I have to thow them away myself. Apple may make the devices slow down (personaly not observed it, but I use no "benchmarks" just since the only thing I care about is my personal impression.

5: It is annecdotal, but it is how my family experiences it. On a daily basis.

FWIW, I move my family between iPhones every year and haven’t noticed any data loss. One exception to date is WeChat, for some godforsaken reason they only back up the most recent dozen conversations or so, so if you want your entire history, you have to jump through hoops to initialize a device-to-device transfer over WiFi, which can take an entire night in worst case.

Would be curious to hear what kind of data loss you have seen though?

Be cautious using WeChat. If the Chinese authority could retrieve something from the device, the U.S. authority must be able, too.


Oh yeah, I am under no illusion about WeChat’s privacy. It’s insanely integrated into everyday life in China though - it almost feels as if people don’t care whether they use iOS or Android there, because they use WeChat apps for everything (banking, utilities, taxi, games, payments for everything, etc) rather than native apps.

I'm curious how you came to this conclusion. WeChat is owned by Tencent which is heavily regulated by the Chinese Government since every company needs a Internet license to operate. It's a lot easier for the Chinese government to force Tencent to hand over the information willingly compared to the US getting the information in other ways.

Why would they need to recover them from a device at all? Do they not just get chat logs bcc'd to them as a matter of course?

Stuff like: in app purshases. In app authentication. In app settings. Two "trust" to be allowed to use particlar apps as second factor. Accounts.

BTW: WeChat shows the future of all (not limited to chat) apps. The governmental control included I am afraid, but man is it future rich!

Personally I only use it on a dedicated phone to maintain specific relations, but it is impressive.

Completely mirrors my experience as well. My wife used to have a Note and she would constantly have issues with the phone that I would have to deal with.

Since buying her an iphone 6 years ago, ZERO issues. NO tech support from me. That alone is worth the price of admission. Same with dropbox, I pay the $99/yr gladly because it means my wife isn't asking me about the baby photos and if they're safe in the flash drive in the desk drawer.

Make sure you have another copy; flash does degrade over time.

Dropbox probably stores things in a couple different locations.

Who the hell still uses Dropbox when there are superior offerings like Google Photos/Drive. In fact even OneDrive is better from a reliability and cost viewpoint.

Google Drive wasn't able to handle 30gb of storage a couple of years ago when I tried it. It was lagging insanely. I now have 700gb of storage so i'm a bit scared to give Google Drive another chance. Dropbox works very well. Also I don't like how Google Photos and Drive work together. If you edit a photo in Photos, it doesn't update the file in drive. I like to have all my photos as files.

OneDrive looks good, I'll definitely give it a try once my paid year of Dropbox is done.

I have spent more time helping my wife fix her iPhone 7+ than I have spent fixing my Pixel 2. My wife's iPhone won't let her transfer photos from the phone to her Mac. After talking with Apple support for 2 hours (they brought in 3 different people to troubleshoot), their recommendation was to buy more icloud storage or to use Google Photos to get photos off the phone. Their icloud offering is garbage in my opinion.

Apple syncing, backup, photos is a complete mess. I cant count the number of times people have asked me "what does this message mean" and the response is "pay apple $1/month for them to back up your phone, or stop backing up your photos." I am shocked apple still wont back up your phone for free.

Not being able to see whats in a backup until you run a restore is also near inexcusable.

I was the first one in family to move to iPhone when 5s came out. Since then EVERYONE in my family and extended family has moved from BlackBerry/Android to iPhone and every single person had that "wow" moment and were like why didn't we start using it earlier. I can 100% relate to your story.

Now if only there was a way to painlessly move from one iPhone to the next, we would be exchanging them far more often. Just last week I moved from my faithful 5s to X, used "iMazing 2" app which I got on offer for around $14. (In case someone is wondering why did I purchase an app just for moving stuff. iMazing 2, offers a painless way to do iPhone wifi enabled backups as well.) The move was flawless. Almost all settings got cloned, even the wallpaper.

Disclaimer: Not related to iMazing 2 in any way. Just a user.

> Result:

You forgot:

6. You now all live in Walled gardens.

It's funny, just this last weekend, I installed a wall around our garden at home. It's been a tremendous improvement.

One random app (Facebook in my example) can NOT access another random app's (sms in this case) data on an iPhone where it can (or could before the very current version) on Android.

You might call that "Freedom" and "not a walled garden", I call that cross access to data a nightmare and am happy that it is a none issue on IOS.


For iPhone to iPhone migration and encrypted backups:


Point 1-4 are true for me since my family switched fully to Linux on any kind of devices.

(and we never used facetime so 5 is a non issue anyway)

> "Facebook logs my sms" are a none issues

How is that a non issue? Just because one permission on iPhone prevents Facebook from sucking up that particular data point right now hardly makes it a non-issue.

Surely someone in your family is texting an Android user any way. And Facebook is not upset by the lack of info your family is sending them, I'm sure.

Dismissing major privacy concerns as non-issue just because you have an iPhone seems super dangerous to me.

I don’t understand your reply: he dismisses it because the issue doesn’t exist on iPhone so he doesn’t have to worry... that’s not dangerous.

I think he’s saying that it’s dangerous to think that your messages are safe from being uploaded to other companies because even if your device protects you, the people that you message might be using devices that do not.

Ideally then you’d limit the amount of SMS messages you send at all, and use a secure messenger like Riot.im.

There is no such thing as 100% security and privacy but we should strive to achieve the best security and privacy that we can.

Ah that's a really good point!

I could have been more clear, but with the "Facebook logs my sms" in quotes I ment:

One random app (Facebook in this example) can NOT access another random app's (sms in this case) data on an iPhone where it can (or could before the very current version) on Android.

YMMV: You might call that "Freedom" and "not a walled garden", I call that cross access to data a nightmare and am happy that it is a none issue on IOS.

> One random app (Facebook in this example) can NOT access another random app's (sms in this case) data on an iPhone where it can (or could before the very current version) on Android.

But it can. You're just wrong here. The Facebook app running on other nodes in the network does have access to at least part of the data you are suggesting is totally private. That data is duplicated and not only on the phone you have 'control' over. That data is not private. Facebook can and does still get it.

Also, Facebook is not some 'random app', and you know it.

Facebook even has a history of having its own code embedded inside of iOS itself. This is not trusted and not safe and clearly not 'random'. Apple does not randomly include code from other 'random' apps into the core of iOS.

It's clear from reading the threads in here that user experience on either side is not consistent. That's fine, get what works for you. If you have an android and it's not working for you, then switch to an iphone, and vice versa. Try a flip phone if you need simplicity.

What I don't get it... is this fanboyism, this loyalty to a company that knows you as close as a number on a spreadsheet and a dollar amount on their bank account. Companies are not loyal to you, they will do whatever they want and push whatever product they build on you as long as you keep your devotion ($).

I think with Apple at least, it’s a sense of trusting the platform to make all the right decisions for you; it’s what you pay for in part. That also leads to the interesting problem of users feeling betrayed instead of just annoyed when something isn’t right.

I ran a user feedback tool for help documentation when I was at apple, but people would just post whatever there greivences were about the product and not the documentation. It was very different user relationship than I had experienced before - there was immense trust, and lifestyle invested in the brand, and immense pressure as an engineer to live up to all these people’s expectations.

On the ground floor, we weren’t worried about missing earnings or slowing user growth, we were worried that “Bob” who runs his media company on a Mac will be frustrated by a change in numbers or iCloud, or that the new iPhone wouldn’t make people feel like they had the best technology in the world.

> there was immense trust, and lifestyle invested in the brand, and immense pressure as an engineer to live up to all these people’s expectations.

Agreed, and this emotional involvement goes a long way to explaining Apple's legendary margins and ability to sell upgrades with increasingly unexciting advancements.

> On the ground floor, we weren’t worried about missing earnings or slowing user growth, we were worried that “Bob” who runs his media company on a Mac will be frustrated by a change in numbers or iCloud, or that the new iPhone wouldn’t make people feel like they had the best technology in the world.

This seems much less true to me. There are many, many examples of poor design choices or imperfect implementations. A recent pet peeve of mine is that I simply cannot decipher how the Facetime contacts and call initiation design works. Somehow I got it working and now can pick a name from the recent calls list, but how I managed to get it to that state is utterly beyond me. This is an absolutely fundamental capability, and yet completely not clear.

This could be said about so many different aspects of Apple products that I find it hard to believe that concern for user happiness and understanding is really that big of an explicit concern. Rather, I suspect any concern is tangential to something else.

>>This could be said about so many different aspects of Apple products that I find it hard to believe that concern for user happiness and understanding is really that big of an explicit concern.

I can assure you it absolutely was in my experience. The problem is that there are so many of these issues and so much pressure to release new features that delight users that Apple has scaling pains.

It’s also possible that the C-Suite doesn’t think like that at all, as a grunt I had no insight into their actual motives. But I assumed the values they told us to uphold were genuine. It’s just really hard.

To this point, I’ll mention a talk Ive gave to new interns where he outlined the (then) controversy over the headphone design (the wired ones that come with your phone and slide into the ear). He was tasked with one earbud design, and for some people with different ears it just didn’t work. But for most people it was the most durable and best sound quality, yadda yadda. He talked about focusing on the majority case, making it as good as possible, and then giving a fallback that is also excellent (the old style rubber pad earbuds) for everyone else. Don’t be worried if someone does some niche better than you, he was saying, do the the absolute best for a large number of people and let other people own those niches.

> There are many, many examples of poor design choices or imperfect implementations.

I'm thinking this isn't a contradiction: that the designers are striving for user-centered design. But many Apple apps aren't allocated a dedicated team. New apps are given birth but then not recognized as a new "thing" that will require continuous maintenance and care.

And then I also imagine that many UX decisions are made by just one or two people, and fairly quickly. They're not taking the time to think about the app, and whether the interaction makes sense to someone not intimately involved.

At least - these are my guesses as someone not inside Apple.

You should definitely buy an iPhone, and if you're wondering why I feel so strongly about it, the answer is that I have a lot of money in AAPL.

(Companies are not the only ones with spreadsheets...) ;-)

Lol almost made me spit out my morning coffee with your response. Great job :)

This isn't unique to technology, but can easily be seen in politics, sports, religion, etc. It's just not labelled fanboyism in other domains.

My background is not in psychology, but I suspect is boils down to something like "I've made my decision, don't wish to admit I am wrong, and will therefore vociferously defend my position against all comers, as well as attack those who disagree with me."

The problem comes when there's really only two choices.

1. I have an iPhone because it consistently received phonecalls when my 6N and Google Fi did not. 2. I had issues with SMS going where the fuck ever in Android that isn't an issue in iPhone. 3. iMessage's walled garden is slightly preferential because it's where the bulk of my contacts are.

Therefore I'm an Apple fanboy and apologist. I guess.

There's a similar rabid population with gaming (consoles vs. PCMR) that goes away when you have enough funding to just buy both. A lot of rabid fanboyism exists where funds are sparse.

> My background is not in psychology, but I suspect is boils down to something like....

The acknowledgement and discussion of this phenomenon is also one of the biggest reasons underlying the surging popularity of Jordan Peterson (Jonathan Haidt, etc). Human psychology is such that people like to self-segregate into teams, despite what they may say when they are being surveyed on the matter.

> What I don't get it... is this fanboyism, this loyalty to a company that knows you as close as a number on a spreadsheet and a dollar amount on their bank account.

I don't approve of platform fanboyism myself, but there is more to it than this. Loyalty to a platform often comes from approving of that company's particular business model and wanting to see it succeed over the others for moral reasons.

iOS fans like Apple's philosophy of "you're the customer, not the product" and deliberately not hoovering up data; Android fans like being able to load any application and change almost any setting on a device they own without a gatekeeper saying they can't. These aren't irrational things to be in favor of.

I think Android fans like the idea of total control more than the actual application of it.

Most of what I've seen are people who just change the system font.

I know there are some people out there who are doing really cool things, but they are in the minority. The majority of the fanboys are people who parrot the line but instead don't do anything "the other side" doesn't do.

I'm familiar with my ecosystem of choice, I prefer its conventions, but if you like the other, it's cool. Of course, I'm a software developer, so I have all the control I want.

I also have devices from both ecosystems, so there's that as well.

I think there’s also a big hurdle of a new thing when you’ve already spent years learning it.

A good friend of mine said, you can only convince someone to change what they’re used to if your thing is 10X better. If it’s just another alternative, you’re gonna be in for disappointment.

>>Most of what I've seen are people who just change the system font.

I like Firefox with all of its extensions. Even a free iphone can't come close.

While that may be true for some, I think you overestimate the amount of conscious thought that goes into human behavior. Even when people have explanations for why they do something, if it's not something truly technical that only abstract conscious thought processes can produce, and if there is any emotional component, those explanations have been shown to come after the decision. The brain creates explanations for whatever it already did, and those explanations are not connected to the actual reasoning. The reason for that is the brain is itself unaware of how it arrived at the result of automatic decisions. It would have to have an additional layer monitoring its connections that would have to be larger than those connections (axons and their neurons). Monitoring is costly. Much easier to create an explanation out of thin air, using your assumptions about yourself... Consciousness is a layer on top, there is no direct control of the brain's processes. You are as surprised by your own decisions as much as the person next to you :-) (unless it's something mundane with no surprise factor for anyone)

I can't wait for the Librem5 phone. Both mainstream options, whether it's Apple or Android, are terrible.

I was one that of the first to jump on the FirefoxOS and really believed it will be a viable option. I can’t describe the disappointment when the project was killed off. I doubt there will be any alternative to android or iOS for a while. However I think once phones are powerful enough people will just run standard GNU/Linux on it, at the stage there won’t be much of distinction between a general purpose computer and a phone.

I always wonder about people who value security so highly.

I like the idea of security but I can't justify the cost of more than $2,000 to protect myself from ad trackers.

Like is this something that matters that much because of the line of work you do? Or is it just about being a high net worth individual.

$2000?? I'm looking at the page right now [0] and it says $600 — well within reason.

[0] https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/

> I always wonder about people who value security so highly.

Well, generally those types of folks do not own smartphones.

> cost of more than $2,000

You must be thinking of a different device?

This idea as presented would be perfect for me. But will they really implement a strong security model? Only time and a lot of third party review, and users, will tell.

Sample size of this thread is too small. Based on the fact that almost all the profits in the phone market go to Apple, obviously they are providing something people want that others can't. In other words, Apple consistently provides a user experience that more people prefer compared to Androids.

Profits go to Apple but I think unit sales sway heavily towards Android, don't they? Apple has much higher margins, so maybe you could say that people who prefer Apple prefer it more heavily than those who slightly prefer Android.

My preference is Apple currently but I think Android is probably better value for the money in most cases.

Yeah, Apple is either number one or two in terms of phones sold compared to other manufacturers.

But Android has a commanding lead of Smartphone OS installation. Because you not only have the Samsung Galaxy phones of the world, but also the BLU Studio X8.

A few hundred extra dollars for something you use many hours per day for multiple critical tasks is hard for me to nitpick about, so I think whatever people like to use (evidenced by what they are buying) shows what provides them the most value.

Unit sales don't say anything in my opinion, other than people who can't afford seem to be going with Android. If you want to make a statement about which user experience is preferable for most people, then the high end phones, which are the phones being chosen out of preference, is the data you want.

Not really. The luxury market is less about fulfilling basic needs and more about telling a good story and differentiating the owners of luxury from normal people

The iPhone is not that expensive so as to confer luxury status, at least not for the upper quintiles. If it was, then you wouldn't see it used so normally, that would defeat the goal of exclusivity.

The difference is people with disposable income are choosing to go with Apple, hence they have a better user experience comparable to other high end phones on the market, with the main differentiating factor being one is iOS and one is Android.

I think you're being terribly US-centric here - iphone use there is far higher than the rest of the world

I also think the locked-in thing is strong - people use iphones/android because they've always used iphones/android not many people have done the switch and comparison to actually have the experience this person has had

For my job as an app Product Manager, I use several different devices on a daily basis. I also switch between an iPhone and Android phone as my personal device every half year or so, to stay up-to-date with both platforms.

I think articles like these are interesting to read, but not relevant anymore. iPhones and high-end Android devices both offer a mature user experience, and you can't objectively say that one is better than the other.

The choice of one OS over another depends entirely on your personal use cases, and of course personal taste. This is also reflected by all the valid, but personal reasons people list in this thread to choose a specific OS.

Agreed. I switch every once in a while (iPhone 3GS -> Evo 4G -> Nexus 4 -> Nexus 5 -> iPhone 8) to keep things interesting. Most of the apps I used on Android are present in iOS. I would give an edge to Android on general OS design and a big edge on notifications (coming from Android, notifications on iOS are embarrassing). Overall, I think it's a wash though.

iPhones and high-end Android devices both offer a mature user experience, and you can't objectively say that one is better than the other.

I agree. Both are great. It boils down mostly to:

- Are you in the Google ecosystem: Google Apps are greater on Android.

- Do you use a Mac: iDevices and Macs do handoff (you can take your phone calls on the Mac, continue typing an e-mail on your iDevice, etc.).

- How many years and how regular do you want security updates. Here generally: iDevices > Google Pixel > non-Google Android.

- How convenient are you with Apple or Google having a chunk of your private data.

Also, more in general, non-Google Android can be a terrible mess. For instance, I used Motorola phones for a while, they used to update phones pretty quickly after Google, but then you were stuck with the extremely buggy .0 version for a long time. Android 5.0 on my Moto X 2013 or 2014 (I don't remember) was terrible, since it had a memory leak. It took them > 6 months to start pushing out fixes.

> I agree. Both are great. It boils down mostly to:

You make a couple of good points, but I think it's again down to your personal situation and taste that makes it "boil down" to these points.

While the transition of management screwed it, Moto X 2013 was one of the best Android phones manufactured.

How have you found support between the platforms?

I tend to agree with your thoughts here, and this article seems like nothing more than very minor personal taste notes, but I have only used iPhones for the past six years or so.

What I have done is support both iPhones and Android devices at work. When someone’s iPhone would break or have issues, I would take it to an Apple store and usually get the issue resolved or a replacement phone the same day. On the other hand, dealing with any sort of support issue for Samsung Galaxy devices was a damn nightmare. Those had to be shipped to some processing plant in TX and Samsung had a painfully bad website for tracking the repair. I had one instance where there just sent the phone back a few weeks later with no updates or information on the web. It took numerous phone calls and wasted time to find out they wouldn’t repair its screen issue because it had a third-party battery.

Perhaps (and hopefully) Google is better about this than Samsung, but those support experiences are what led me to prefer Apple’s ecosystem for personal use.

I recall trying to get support for an odd issue on the Galaxy Nexus - it seems some devices would be unable to connect to 5GHz wifi after a few days or weeks of use, and mine was affected. Probably a hardware fault. Not only did Samsung's staff appear unable to understand the issue, their response was only to reinstall the OS (which took them over a week), which had no effect whatsoever. They claimed that they wouldn't replace it until the OS reinstall had been tried by them three times without success. Before it got to this point I returned it to the supplier for a refund, after wasting a bit of time on "not our problem, for faults contact the manufacturer" and "not our problem, for refunds or replacements contact the vendor". Whether or not this was typical I cannot say, but it did rather put me off.

I don't think I have the same level of experience with support as you do, but in general my experience with Apple and Samsung is the same as yours. I never needed Google's support, so I can't tell you if that's better.

I agree and generally say people should just pick the one they like and go with it because the devices are generally at parity.

After 7 years Android user across three phones, I decided to try iPhone. Now 2 years in, on my 2nd, and never going back. Android tends to slowly slide into glitch land and demands you throw away your phone far more aggressively than iPhones do. The 911-crash on Android was the last straw. That's when you call 911, and the phone crashes instead of, you know, calling for help.

iPhone might not be latest and greatest. But the overall package is better. Definitely not perfect - I've experienced a disabled Phone app on iPhone where I would not have been able to call 911 had I needed it - but all my i-devices have been glitch resistant in a way none of my Android devices ever were.

I think sometimes it's a grass-is-greener situation. I had an iPhone bug where the camera/gallery would just crash on startup or basically anytime I had to do anything camera related. I eventually fixed it (after months of trying) by connecting to a PC with a 3rd party app, navigating the file system, and deleting a bunch of thumbnail cache files.

I had plenty of problems answering phone calls on my iPhone -- it would be glitchy and unresponsive and I'd miss calls.

Even more annoying about the iPhone is the always growing "Other" space on the phone. I was constantly short on disk space with no way of knowing what the cause was or how to clean it up.

The bluetooth stack would crash every week disconnecting all my bluetooth devices temporarily. Very annoying when you have a smartwatch.

My wife's iPhone screen doesn't turn off after she uses Siri sometimes -- it'll just say on all night long.

The entire iPhone 6 (non-S) line was total garbage. Tons of people bought these and had nothing but problems.

My point isn't so much to rag on iPhones -- they're actually really solid devices -- and I highly recommend them to non-technical users pretty much exclusively. They are hands down better than the vast majority of Android devices.

But I switched from iPhone to Android on this last cycle and couldn't be happier -- this article covers much of what's good about it. But I love the flexibility and a lot of little touches that iOS devices don't have. And I think all devices have different problems. My Android phone is not glitch free either.

I have beefs with my iPhone and iPad but not those.

1. Nagging for Apple paid services

2. Gestures changing every month and becoming increasingly complicated with small variations doing different things, inconsistent experience between iPad and iPhone

3. Audio jack

4. Anything that involves editing is a catastrophe. Selecting an element of a table on a web page or trying to copy the text of a link (not the url) is nearly impossible.

5. Auto correct introducing more errors than it corrects.

6. iTunes on Windows which is still the only way to sync my music to the iPhone is just completely broken.

Which is why I am tempted to move. I can see some candidates for an iPhone replacement but the iPad Pro 10.5 doesn’t seem to have any competitor (large-ish screen with high refresh rate).

I was specifically replying to the idea that iPhone are glitch free rather than merely what's wrong with the fundamental design of iOS. That's an entirely different kind of post and after being an iPhone user for many many years I do have a long list of those too.

> Gestures changing every month and becoming increasingly complicated with small variations doing different things, inconsistent experience between iPad and iPhone

Why would the phone's gesture controls change for you every month?

He might have meant, e.g., that iPhone X has a wildly different set of gestures and shortcuts. Like, guided mode being triple-power instead of triple home, battery/volume/etc menu swiping from upper left corner instead of from below, apps being minimized vía swiping up instead of home button, etc, the list is long.

That's hardly going to be an iPhone only thing though. Any phone that does away with one or more hardware buttons, especially the home button, is going to have to present a new command interface. It's not like going into getting an X that this is going to be some unexpected surprise, and certainly not every month.

Android phones got rid of hardware buttons in favor of SW ones. Making the entire interface gesture based isn’t the only option.

Even the ipad changes gestures regularly.

2. is a real issue. I had to google how to turn off an iPhone X, this is after there being an iOS product of every gen being in the family since the iPhone 3

Well, that's the thing: you're obviously not supposed to turn it off :)

I have definitely known too many people to experience issues with missed calls on iPhones to ever consider buying one. I have had android phones since the HTC Dream and I have never had something as simple as that go wrong - although the 911 bug seems far worse; I've just never met anyone with that problem.

My Nexus 4 developed an interesting one after the update to 5 and 5.0.1. Incoming calls would crash it half the time, or 5 seconds of silence on calls that didn't crash. The dialler was almost unusable.

Was widely reported but never properly resolved, so that was the cue for replacement.

My Samsung Note 3 got so laggy that I couldn't get the unresponsive phone app to actually pick up the call before it flipped to voice mail. Reboots would fix it temporarily, but it would come back. You have failed at your primary purpose, phone. Android experiment over, back to iOS.

I know plenty of people including myself that experienced it with Android phones. Weirdly, one of the most stable Androids I owned in terms of phone use was my Xperia X10 — one of the first android phones out! I miss that phone. And my Nokia N9.

> I've just never met anyone with that problem.

That's because they are dead.

> Even more annoying about the iPhone is the always growing "Other" space on the phone. I was constantly short on disk space with no way of knowing what the cause was or how to clean it up.

Hm? There is a very simple Storage page in the Settings that shows you exactly how much storage each app is taking up (including things the app is storing) and it is ordered by size so you can immediately see what's using up your space and delete it if necessary. I have an old 16GB iPhone that is still chugging along after 7 years and is my daily phone but it is a bit lacking of space and this Storage area is a simple fix.

Yes, that page is very simple, and very wrong. On my mom's iPad and iPhone, the app numbers on the storage page simply don't add up. Many gigabytes of space are unaccounted for, yet unusable. As far as I can tell the only way to recover the space is a factory reset, and it's only a temporary fix.

Tbf, my last phone(Xperia Z5) did the same thing - it would show me that apps were taking ~22GB, but when you displayed them and actually added up the numbers it was about ~12GB. I actually went and uninstalled pretty much everything I could, and "apps" were still showing as using nearly 10GB. I only got it back after a full firmware reset.

On Android, you can install any random file manager and explore & clean the filesystem yourself (many apps litter on the virtual sdcard). There's also a DiskUsage app (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.and...), that will scan the device and tell you, where are the files that take up the space and allows you to delete them.

With iOS device, you can't really do that.

iTunes will show you the space taken by apps, by music, by videos, by documents, and then "other". My other just got slightly bigger all the time. This isn't unique to my phone either.

I find this area the single most useless display of information on an iPhone.

Yes, you can see which app takes how much space. Then what? There is no way to control or clean up that space. You can hope that an app has a setting somewhere that let's you delete old data, and that's it.

The biggest offender? Apple's own Photos app especially with iCloud and Photo Stream: there's exactly zero ways to make it give up space (unless you "want to delete photos from all connected devices")

On the General > Storage there are some options I have on my iOS (v 11.3):

- Offload Unused Apps

- Auto Delete Old Conversations

Or I can manually offload apps one by one.

I think you are referring to the iCloud Storage settings on the iPhone when talking about deleting photos from all connected devices.

Probably the confusion is because they decided to put two storages: General > iPhone Storage (managing local storage) and Accounts > iCloud > iCloud Storage.

The last one (iCloud Storage) manages the iCloud so if you delete something from iCloud it will delete it from all devices.

edit: formatting

Both of those options are next to useless because unused apps rarely take up much space, and old conversations don't take up much space either.

And then you have stuff like "Photos X GB", "Facebook X GB" etc. There are no ways to control that.

Old conversations actually used to be the worst offender for some users - it included all media sent or received in those conversations which could be really hard to track down.

What's stopping you deleting photos and videos, or even whole albums in the app? Or syncing photos off and deleting on sync?

Anyway, I'd genuinely be interested in how Android or Android apps solve his problem in better ways.

For a lot of the other issues, it seems like this is a problem with the apps though, not the OS. If Facebook or a podcast app is hogging space, it's up to the app to provide options to manage it's data.

Android has an overview by app where you can a) delete the app entirely, b) delete the app's data entirely or c) delete the app's cache. C solves most issues described here.

Why doesn't it delete / trim the caches automatically? If they are safe to be deleted by the user at any time, the device itself should be clever enough to clear the space.

Caches are there for a reason. You're essentially saying applications should not have caches.

Apple's Photo app's interactions are so incredibly broken that is nigh impossible to figure out how to properly remove photos from a service without accidentally deleting them across all devices you own.

Heh, I'm a programmer, and I'm scared to touch anything in that app :)

Unfortunately iOS tends to group everything that's outside an app's container into a big lump that you have no permission to modify or even view to see what's taking up the space. Often the only solution is to perform a full wipe and restore from a backup.

> the always growing "Other" space ...

Lol, I had an "Other" folder for the growing set of iOS apps that I didn't use but couldn't delete.

You can delete nearly all default iOS apps now as of iOS 10.


Which actually means “hide the icon”.

Kind of exactly like “disable” on an android unless you know the magic incantation for your device to get a third party OS installed.

I deleted iTunes, music app, the games center, and other built-ins on my iPhone and I cannot re-open them again without reinstalling them, so this seems to do more than just remove the icon.

On my iPhone 4S Wi-Fi dies after 2 years and was not working since. Phone performance had been crippled by iOS7. Power button almost broke after 2-3 years (no click).

iPad also crippled by iOS7.

Friend bought iPhone7 and 7plus, 7 had broken GPS out of the box, 7plus had power and volume down buttons break down after several weeks of usage.

Not the ideal quality for sure, especially for that price tag.

My experience exactly. I always said bad things about iPhone. Hay it is closed, it has fewer options, worse hardware than top Android phones, etc.. It was the time during which I fiddled with the phone much, installed Ubuntu on Android phone, etc.. But then my last Nexus started to glitch like any other Android top phone after 1 year of use. I was so irritated by it that I said well I will try iPhone now.

It was about 6 month ago and I could not be more happy. I have phone that just works, never glitched, not once in 6 months, never sttutered with animation or anything. Yes, it is less extensible, has less options, but actually I like that now better. I wan`t it to work good, work well and be reliable.

One major additional benefit is that I use iPhone less than Android phone, and it spams and pings me less. At first iPhone, notifications felt overly simplistic, but now I love them. There are no permanent notifications/icons that some android app can put there, and I can just scroll from the lock screen and see without clicking/opening everything that happened. Also, I can disable every notification/spam per app, disabled all bubbles (red circle numbers over app icons) except for messaging apps. This way I feel that I don`t expect dopamine dose from my phone, and I use it only when I really need something.

Also there's small stuff like: Photo map. I've traced back treasured photos that would have been lost in a sea of 44,000 photos by finding them on the map.

Google Photos doesn't seem to have this.

Notes also works really nicely for loads of stuff.

It's good that someone has made that but it looks nowhere near as nice.

When you open the Photos app on iOS you have a beautiful map with clustered thumbnails.



It's useful enough that I could find out the exact spot I slept by the river Seine years ago based on scrolling around Berlin on the map for 5 minutes until I found the photo, taken several years ago on a completely different iPhone, then go back there recently and recreate the picture.

FWIW samsung's gallery does that https://imgur.com/a/Qgc3yUH (probably only on the S8 and above but idk )

> lost in a sea of 44,000 photos

You're taking too many photos. Honestly ask yourself, how often do you go back and look at old photos? Maybe you do, but for me, I realized that I never do. So I stopped taking them.

>>Also, I can disable every notification/spam per app

You can do this on Android as well

>> Nexus started to glitch like any other Android top phone after 1 year of use ... 6 month ago and I could not be more happy. I have phone that just works, never glitched

hmmm, Anyone else see a issue with these 2 statements?

I really don't know about that. I had the og Moto-X and it served me will for years without issue. I now have a Nexus 6 and didn't wipe the phone for two years after use. I only did so because I wanted the better system encryption that came with a newer Android and that was only available after a full wipe.

I agree. Frustrating and clunky as the iPhone might be at times, it's relatively reliable and stable.

I'm quite happy to use Android on a tablet. It's far closer to a "traditional" operating system in terms of the amount of control you get over everything.

Although I've got to say, the headphone jack might be the last straw for me ... my iPhone SE could be my last iPhone if a reasonable alternative materialises ...

Same. I’m holding on to my 6s until its last breath. I replaced the battery recently and that boosted its performance back to launch-day levels, so I’ll probably keep chugging along for another two years at least.

To me, no headphone jack means no phone.

I like small and light phones so I bought an Xperia X Compact at the end of 2016. It's more or less the same form factor of the SE and it still works very well. Unfortunately its ticker (9.5 mm vs 7.6 mm) and it weights more (135 g vs 113 g). The Xperia Compact XZ1 from 2017 is 2 mm less tick but weights even more (140 g). If I could make me like iOS I would have got a SE immediately. The Compact is probably the best small phone in the Android world but I stopped researching phones. I'll start again when the Compact will be about to die. I hope it lasts at least as long as my old Galaxy S2, 5 years.

Yep. Trying to hold onto my SE as long as I can and I'm really stumped at where to go next...

> Now 2 years in, on my 2nd, and never going back. Android tends to slowly slide into glitch land and demands you throw away your phone far more aggressively than iPhones do.

I doubt that an Android phone would become unusable in the first 2 years.

Each of my Androids have, with the exception of the absolutely brilliant LG Nexus 5.

I had a similar experience with a S7E but now have a Pixel 2 XL and that is the key. My Pixel is as smooth as an iPhone. Plus does not slow down over time.

In someways phones like the S7E give Android a bad name.

The iPhone walled garden is what gets my goat, particularly when it comes to the impact it's had on my children. Combined with an observation that there is a distinct subset of people who buy iPhones who seem uninterested in how technology works or engaging deeply in solving technology interop problems when things go wrong. I get that's part of the feedback loop -- you buy an iPhone because "ack, technology! I just want things to work" and Apple has done an excellent job of capturing this market, extracting a price premium for it, and delivering on this hope.

Regarding the children, what I see in my community is many of the iPhone-using parents upgrade phones immediately when a new model comes out, and the old phone goes to the kids. You get a bunch of 10 to 14 years olds packing iPhones, many without a SIM, all "texting" with one another. Except mostly they aren't really texting in the SMS sense, they are iMessaging. And they have no clue or interest in figuring out why iMessage doesn't always work very well across the iPhone <--> Android border. This is exacerbated by the fact that kids get new phone numbers, some of which are still registered to the former owner's iMessage account (have fun explaining all that). It creates cliques and exclusionary behavior ensues, and boy let me tell you when you are not in the cool kids' group text because your dad won't pay the Apple tax and bought you an Android phone, it can make for some sadness and frustration.

All this probably says as much about the school culture my kids are immersed in as it does about the technology.

To your first point, as a big Apple user of 2+ decades, I enjoy technology and tinkering, but I want control over when and how the need to tinker pops up. I don’t necessarily want to tinker with my phone or with my computer at all times, particularly when I’ve come home from programming for 8 hours. When I need my tinker fix there’s always personal programming projects and Linux distros and keyboard building projects and such that I can turn to on my own time, not whenever my phone or laptop decides it wants to be difficult.

Also as an anecdote, it was Macs that got me deeper into OS internals and programming as a kid — first on Classic MacOS through hacking apps, games, and the OS itself via ResEdit as well as programming silly toy apps with REALBasic. Later on, it was early release of Mac OS X (I jumped on board at 10.0.4) with the huge new world brought by a real *NIX terminal and the powerful development environment provided by Objective-C+Cocoa and Project Builder+Interface Builder (Xcode precursors). These were major factors in my journey to becoming a software engineer as an adult.

The iMessage thing sucks, I can see similar issues happening in other contexts however (like people getting bullied into using Facebook for example).

To be honest, I mostly see Android users trying to defining people by which phone they use. Talking about walled gardens and gullible people willing to pay the “Apple tax”. Particularly in the tech community there seems to be a subset of people that think using an iPhone is “stupid”.

To me Android and iOS both seem to have issues. Which you use is up to you. We’re in a sucky situation where you either get a phone designed by an advertising company or a phone that is entirely closed source (and limited to a single vendor).

The walled garden is one of Apple's strengths. I joined the ecosystem because there is a walled garden, not despite of it.

There is some anecdotal evidence that Apple is heavyhaded with their approval process but, for the most part, it's a success.

The parent-kid thing is a societal problem, not an Apple problem. Can hardly blame a company because the kids of their customers don't want to be inclusive (exclusivity is more than just what device you use).

The problem here is that the walled-garden approach is being used on communication services.

It's arbitrarily impossible to send text to/from Android with iMessage. It's arbitrarily impossible to use Facetime with anything other than iOS or OS X.

You may have found this walled garden to be a feature, but that doesn't mean every person you associate with does; yet you are likely imposing it upon them.

This problem is exasperated by the target market: People who want something that "just works" are generally going to be the most frustrated when they can't communicate across platforms; and most likely to blame it on everyone else, while refusing to solve the problem on their own end. Apple is taking advantage of this mentality, and abusing us all.

Apple is not abusing anyone (maybe their assembly workers, but even that is a stretch). They are providing a service and no one is forced to use it.

At the office, we use Slack and Webex for communication. With some friends, we use Skype and Messenger for video calls, with others it's FaceTime. No one is ostracized for having an Android. Not at work and certainly not in private.

How do you feel like you're being imposed on?

From Wikipedia:

> Abuse is the improper usage or treatment of an entity, often to unfairly or improperly gain benefit.

I would say that their actions clearly fit that description.

They are abusing their customers by preventing them from using software outside their controlled ecosystem, and they are purposefully creating incompatible communication protocols in order to make everything around them effectively worse.

You could prevent others from using alternative systems by simply not collaborating with other players (for any one of a million reasons) and not building compatible software. It's not abuse, it's the belief that they don't need other parties to build great product.

I deal with this even with college students I work with. Nobody seems to care or realize why Apple doesn't let you "blue bubble text" with Android users, and many don't seem to understand there's no technical limitation, and that its only Apple trying to close off their ecosystem.

Full ACK. However, I'm optimistic, kids can be educated and evventually some of them will be interested in understanding how tech works, digging deeper and deeper and getting used to the hacker culture.

These families where luxurious old IPhones are available plentifully are probably a bit odd, but for the purpose of hacking, IPhones are not too bad. They can be rooted, they have good hardware on board and batteries which last a decade. When I was young, I only had old lame personal computers from the household trash. I whish I had portable devices to play with! :-)

This sounds like Blackberry and BBM when I was growing up in high school. I had a Sony Ericsson, and would feel fairly excluded from other friends who were all talking on BBM. But I have grown to realize how much of a fad that was and how quickly it passes.

I wish I could switch to the iPhone, and I've tried several times. The hardware is excellent. But these are my deal-breakers that keep me on Android (I've only ever had Google Nexus / Pixel phones):

- Lastpass or any other password manager on iPhone is a joke, requiring multiple convoluted steps and using the "share" menu in the browser because of the Apple lock-down. Lastpass on Android? Click the password field in any app or the browser, authenticate with your finger. Done.

- All the Google apps on the iPhone are of a much lower quality and behind design and feature wise. The reason I switched last time from the iPhone to Android was because I realized I don't use any of the Apple apps any longer (mail, maps, notes, music, etc.) and I use the Google apps and services exclusively because they're just so much better. And they're way better still on Android!

- Google Photos is amazing. It's hard to overstate just how good it is. And you can still plug in your phone and get your photos of the device, if you like. A recent experience of trying to backup my wife's photos from her iPhone 7 was an incredibly frustrating experience in contrast. The Apple photos desktop app is a piece of crap, somehow even slower and beachball-prone than the Apple Store app, and the backup is very confusing. Using iCloud is not a backup solution, because deleting a photo on any device still deletes it everywhere.

Interesting - I've been switching between the two for a while and have the opposite conclusion!

I use 1Password and filling out passwords on iOS is actually better in Safari than it was on Android Chrome. It's not that convoluted at all: share button, hit 1Password, tap the site entry on my password list. Done. By contrast, I had all kinds of issues on Android with the 1Password button not appearing sometimes, or failing at other times (it was an accessibility hack, so I suspect they were doing the best they could)

I also found the Google apps to be of comparable quality. Maps, Play Music and Inbox are all but identical. I'm also quite content to diversify my data a little and depend on Google less. I even switched the iOS default search engine to DuckDuckGo.

And as a last point: Google Photos is available on iOS. And works fantastically.

Wow. As an iPhone user I actually wasn't aware of how easy LastPass is on Android. I, too, hate all of the steps (leave browser to open the app, search for your site, copy password, go back to the browser, paste password). Hopefully I'm missing something?

Re: Google. Their apps are certainly subpar as opposed to Android, which is to be expected. They are getting better, though. And Google Photos is a must for me as an iOS user. I've certainly had issues before as well with iCloud backups of image libraries.

leave browser to open the app, search for your site, copy password, go back to the browser, paste password

In the browser, you can tap the share icon and choose 1Password, this will open 1Password and you can confirm the entry to log in.

Thank you! I've been doing this wrong for YEARS.

Same for Lastpass

Thanks for this! That's a game-changer for Safari-based logins for me.

I believe there is a newer flow that I've caught occasionally. I use 1Password and some apps seems to have a shortcut on password fields for 1password to help fill in the password without going through the manual process.

1Password is nearly as good on iOS as LastPass is on Android. The exception is apps that haven’t been updated to support password managers are still a pain. I really wish Apple would mandate support for them.

Keyschain Access.app works exactly like that. Not sure if it would be easy to migrate from Lastlass, though. I know you can at least script the process.

Well, that could be a dealbreaker, though given this is a taste thing and great browser performance of iOS, I personally don't see it as a problem.

Google Photos is on the App Store. On Mac, you can rsync your photos library with cron or launchctl (~/Documents/Photos.library) or stick with time machine or dozen others file-level or block-level backup tools.

Want to second this and mention that as of iOS 11, the built-in keychain works inside apps. It's also the reason I've switched back to using Safari on the desktop as my default browser. Neither Firefox nor Chrome use the keychain properly (hard to tell whether this is Apple's intent).

Unfortunately, as you point out, you pretty much have to use Google apps to make Android worthwhile. And you're basically opting into massive invasion of your personal privacy by doing that, turning your life into an ad-targeted money tree for Google and the other dozen pre-loaded apps on your typical Android phone. I don't think it's worth it one bit.

Similarly, a lot of the inconveniences you point out (e.g. LastPass), are also a way of protecting you from rogue apps (e.g. Facebook) from tracking everything you do on your phone. That level of integration means that any app can read anything in your browser and operate on it independently of a human action.

And with Apple you use Apple services which no doubt do the same invasion of privacy.

And if you don't want to see ads it's pretty easy, buy apps without ads rather than using ad supported apps.

> Similarly, a lot of the inconveniences you point out (e.g. LastPass), are also a way of protecting you from rogue apps (e.g. Facebook) from tracking everything you do on your phone. That level of integration means that any app can read anything in your browser and operate on it independently of a human action.

This is patently wrong. No rogue Android app has full access from tracking everything on your phone and your browser. There is security in Android, and you can selectively choose whether to enable them for certain features. For example having a custom keyboard is possible to enable the lastpass features, but you have to go and set it to on (the app can't do it). And you get warned that it can have access to what you type (it should it's a password manager). But point is that you have the option, but apps are locked down by default and can't just access everything like you have stated.

I have a hard time believing that any invasions of privacy Apple might be up to are anywhere near as severe as what Google does regularly. They specifically do as much as possible on device — for instance, all AI-based stuff in Photos is done with NNs on your phone itself while it’s charging rather than off in some data center somewhere and they limit data capture to the point that they cripple themselves in some ways (why do you think Siri is so lacking?)

They’re a company like any other and thus not some pristine angel, but I based on what’s visible as an end user and developer I would be shocked if Apple’s data hoovering is anywhere near as egregious as that of Google.

"No doubt"? Um, I think that means you don't know what you're talking about. No, Apple does not invade your privacy with its apps. Please do your research next time before assuming.

Android security is a joke.


This malware was installed on vanilla phones including those from Samsung, out of the factory.

Regarding LastPass, it used the accessibility option, which as far as I know basically let's it watch your screen - aka it's a full on screen logger.

On top of this most Android devices are way out of date (Samsung in particular is terrible about updating their phones), and vulnerable to security exploits, malware, adware, who knows what.

Good luck to anyone that owns an Android phone. It's like the Windows 95 of mobile devices.

Yes you described LastPass exactly as I said. You need to go and turn it on as accessibility services. You get told anything turned on can see you screen/keys etc. And with that you have control and visibility as you can see what apps you have given permissions vs ones you don't. You make the conscious decision to grant that sort of permission and for that you get a better user experience.

Apple is more like the outdated OS with more features and better user experiences going to Android.

Out of date Android's aren't really the big problem you make it out to be. It just means they really won't the latest apps. They probably just use their phone to call people and are happy with it.

And you're kidding yourself to think there isn't adware/malware for Apple flying around. The number of vulnerabilities and malware does not indicate how secure a platform is but how often hackers are trying. With Android's increased marketshare of course it gets the majority of attempts.

I regret the flame bait in my previous post. I think both platforms have their drawbacks. But I still disagree that Android can be considered more secure. Apple is good at rolling out security updates to all devices as soon as a security vulnerability happens - that doesn't, and can't happen on Android due to fragmentation and reliance on OEMs. Hence my Win95 comment, which had a similar problem.

>Good luck to anyone that owns an Android phone. It's like the Windows 95 of mobile devices.

Haha, wow, this is such an inflammatory comment.

I don't really mind saving $200+ for a phone because I know how to both shop for, and use my phone.

Half of the complaints iOS users have about Android simply come from them being too lazy to avoid the pitfalls that come from having the choice between hundreds of different phones and apps.

But yeah, I mean, have fun with your Eddie Bauer of technology. Glad it "just works" for you.

>Lastpass or any other password manager on iPhone is a joke,

It's pretty seamless for me with 1Password. Maybe it's an issue of Lastpass itself?

There is an issue between iPhone's (8/X) new compression format and storing photos in Google Photo - many sunny photos will end up overexposed and people's faces will have those bright white spots surrounded by orange. (forced switching to sRGB and losing some details)

Separately - the way Apple does image processing and applies noise filtering results in horrible image quality full of noise if there is even a slight hint of low light. Water-color faces surrounded by noise of brown dots.

I cannot believe how people still praise iPhone camera. 5 years ago it was the best I guess. Right now it's just one of many and often quite mediocre in comparison.

Just checked on my iPhone and to log in on a website, it's tap in the field, select the user/pass, login. And on an app, it's tap in the field, tap the key icon, pick the user/pass I want to use, auth with fingerprint, login. [edit: just to say, it's actually tap the key, auth with fingerprint, then pick user/pass -- I reversed the order of auth/pick by mistake.]

I don't understand the convolution? Doesn't seem like an excessive number of steps either.

Am I missing something?

To be fair Lastpass is pretty bad on Android too. At least half the time it won't recognize login dialog, requiring the user to swap between apps and copy + paste. They recently dropped support for Firefox.

Your last two points may be valid, I can't say I use any Google apps other than maps, but iOS has password management built in. When I first logged into an app using face recognition, it was one of those magical "wow" moments.


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