For what it's worth, Windows Phone was actually an amazing platform for both users and developers, and shows a fundamental rule of technology: There Is No Third Ecosystsm. The most dominant hardware maker (at the time) and software/os maker teamed up with a really great product, but couldn't break the established smartphone duopoly, even though it was only a few years old by that point. I wasn't a Microsoft fan by any stretch (the opposite actually), but even I agreed with the decision at the time, especially after using Windows Phone. First mover advantage is huge, and developers only have so much bandwidth.
Edit: Heh. Apparently someone did write a book. See comments below. Wow.
They have. Help yourself:
I don't think this is fundamental. Microsoft really dropped the ball on Windows 10 Mobile. Building a third ecosystem is very hard, and it's a long term commitment. Microsoft had made good inroads on cheap phones with reasonable performance, and they didn't follow through with that for W10M; instead they were focusing on flagship phones. Flagship phone buyers are a lot more discriminating about everything including OS polish, app marketplace, and upgrade experience (edit to add, and a browser that doesn't suck).
In my view the app support killed the platform. It would have been impossible to fix. Even if Microsoft had paid for the development it would not have made sense for companies to spend time with WP versions for just a few users.
It's one thing to build an app for a platform with not very many users; it's another to build three similar apps for three similar platforms that don't have very many users. This is something Microsoft should have done better, and falls in the camp of if you're going to be a third ecosystem, you have to be consistently good.
You would have thought that Microsoft of all companies understood the value of platforms, having maintained Win32 compatibility for a decade already at that point.
Similarly Nokia bought Trolltech for their Qt UI toolkit, because it would allow software to be developed that could be compiled for both Maemo and Symbian. But before that could be put into effect, the board panicked and brought in Elop (in large part because of American pension funds, apparently).
This more than anything was perhaps what allowed Apple and Google to take over, as it signaled to companies that Microsoft was not committed to support them for the long haul.
Not long after we started to see abominations like iPhones fitted with barcode scanner cases to handle warehouse inventorying!
I used an HD7 for years, as well as a 925, because it always felt snappy and "brand new".
I fired up my 925 a few days ago and it still feels fresh, quick, and gorgeous.
Smooth experience, no clutter, no distraction - it just works.
You're probably referring to the first party apps which used an entirely different UI framework which was never publicly accessible.
Meanwhile in the earliest days of Windows Phone Silverlight the default blank app in Visual Studio took more than a second to load.
Here’s my old WP7 project implementing both of these:
Update: the solution in that repo builds a WP7 app using WP8 SDK. Earlier versions used WP7 SDK. I had to upgrade a few things, e.g. replaced Async CTP with Microsoft.Bcl.Async but the changes were minor.
BTW, when original iPhone was released in 2007, it didn’t have any user-installable apps at all, only the built-in ones. The store with the apps was launched a year after the phone.
Moblin, much like Maemo, started out as a modified Debian.
But right after the merger was announced, Intel released Moblin 2, that was RPM based.
End result was that Nokia was left hanging high and dry with their N900 that used DEB and also attempted to switch out GTK with Qt (Nokia bought Trolltech) because Qt could be used on both Linux and Symbian.
There was already an established duopoly when iOS and Android first shipped.
But what happened was that for some reason the focus shifted from the well established European market to the backwaters American market, rolling back some 2 decades of progress in mobile tech in the process.
Nokia was demoing Symbian phones that could operate as a pocket computer (just hook up to a TV a keyboard and a mouse) while Android barely could show a video on a external screen by blanking the internal one.
Yet the established players flinched, bought into the MSM hype, and ran their ships aground, leaving themselves wide open to be overtaken by upstarts.
Inability of Nokia/Microsoft to see that it wasn't amazing at all - in my opinion is the reason they got destroyed by iOS and Android. Windows Phone 7 was far from amazing, and by the time windows phone 8 came out - everybody already realized that and were not going to purchase another phone with WP8 that will be bricked by a new update again like all the WP7 phones did.
One day it fell down about 3 meters on a stone floor and survived almost without a scratch. Great hardware, nice software, but a poor mobile strategy by Microsoft.
And second mover, it seems, then, but not third. Is that so?
I was choosing between that and a Moto G5 Plus in the price bracket. Perhaps the Moto has better features, but the Nokia has a solid steel plate running through its entire body.
So, I could have had a better camera and battery on a Moto, or I could get the assurance that if I end up in a Star Wars garbage compactor scenario, I'd have something I could wedge into the damn doors to avoid being crushed completely flat.
I went with the Nokia.
One of the ex-engineers in my team worked for Nokia in Finland and he spoke abt this Finnish concept of _sisu_ and how big of a deal it was.
I think it badly translates in English to 'unbreakable' or 'full of grit'. And he claimed that that pretty much explained the Finnish engineering ethos: Everything built to last forever.
Has Nokia committed to beating Google on terms of handset support lifetime?
If they stop the updates, you can participate in a class-action lawsuit, and get a Nokia ballpoint pen (ink not included) after eleven years.
Google + HMD Global seems more credible combination.
Same. Absolutely the best value for money phone I have ever had.
* The cellphone division was entirely sold to Microsoft ages ago.
* The cellphones coming out today is just a branding agreement with HMD.
* The Nokia of today is a huge company (more than 100.000 people) that focuses on backbone networks and telecom services. Almost every single ISP and provider in the world is using Nokia tecnology. Every other core router or service router on Internet is a Nokia router (or Alcatel-Lucent router that was bought by Nokia couple years ago).
I know the Name Nokia is not Hype like an Apple or Google, but there is very cool stuff happening in the Backbone telecom business.
Pretty well done considering that they were in very deep troubles before selling the (worthless) mobile phone business to Microsoft for quite a nice price.
Google's last few phones have been plagued with problems, and them withholding software from their niche hardcore fans was the last straw.
If only Nokia had got in on the Android action earlier and realised that Symbian/Ovi wasn't up to it.
I would still carry out that strategy. Android for the masses, and a real Linux as a different product aimed at enthusiasts, privacy aware and governments. That market is growing. Even Apple is focusing on privacy-aware people.
My Nokia N9, which is inferior to the N900 in some ways, is still ahead of many smartphones of 2018 in a few key aspects. The UI is incredibly elegant. Furthermore, its a real Linux machine, with a real terminal and a regular userland. And offline navigation is amazing.
I still use it often. The hardware is beautiful in a way very few products are.
Maemo might have been a great OS, but Android and iOS have sucked the oxygen out of the room. There’s no way Nokia could build and support an alternative OS just for enthusiasts.
The OS you get out of the repo today is very stale and bare bones compared to the early days, before Amazon Fire and like.
Nokia doesn't need to "build and support an alternative OS just for enthusiasts", they just need to give some support to the Halium project .
It doesn't require big efforts, just a bit of sanity choosing components and perhaps mainlining drivers.
It was fast, well built, good battery life, the gesture based UI was awesome to use (the iPhone X UI, while alright is inferior to the N9's IMO). If only it could have survived through to today. :(
This is just silly, one company with two mobile OS is just such a waste of resources.
That OS was seriously so good. Put it in some modern hardware (Nokia 8/Nokia 9 body??) and update the OS (said like it's some small task) and I would buy that day 1.
1. It's solid Android phone.
2. It's vanilla Android with frequent updates. No crapware and up to date.
Nokia also sounded quite sad about not being able to put project Treble on the Nokia 8. Maybe because they now have to put in more effort into putting out Android updates but I welcome their strategy of bringing those updates to the consumer very fast. Sometimes even faster than Google.
At least until Google comes up with something that require a more recent kernel to implement, as seen with the whole ChromeOS support for Android apps...
Me too. Why will your next be a Nokia?
(not the one you're replying to, but I'm in the same boat)
My question is, why should the next one be a Nokia? Is it just the stock Android and fast updates (which is why I always went Nexus, along with price), or is there another compelling reason?
But I suspect that the Nexus phones have problems because either Google are too ambitious and pushy or differences* between Google and the hardware manufacturer make things less reliable.
* differences such as culture and communication.
I've had an opportunity to try Nokia 8 and Nokia 3. Basically go for the highest model number that you can afford.
Nokia 8 is very good. No complaints that wouldn't apply to Pixel, too.
Nokia 3 is remarkably good _for its €150 price_ (camera underwhelming, screen blue-tinted and unreliable wifi [at least with November software] compared to flagships, but in Europe unreliable wifi doesn't matter since you can stay on mobile data all the time, so better choose the security updates than a competitor with better wifi).
This graph is pretty awesome in showing how big Nokia was:
The current smartphone platforms probably will last a lot longer - probably because of the App ego systems. I was thinking that IPhone might drop off around 6 years after it was introduced.
Clearly what they should have done is paired with a new OS with basically no base from a company that had failed in almost every consumer venture it embarked upon.
HMD Global is essentially Nokia - Foxconn partnership.
Nokia never sold it's R&D division or patents to Microsoft. HMD global has full IPR access to everything from Nokia Research and all patents.
Foxconn wants to reduce its dependence from Apple. 46% of Hon Hai's (Foxconn) revenue comes from Apple.
So, first of all, they don't sell in most countries where people would buy such expensive phones, and in the countries where people would buy these, Google either only sells through a single carrier, or through a web shop that requires a credit card.
Which, for example, in Germany almost no one has (I think last time we discussed this @germanier linked a study showing 22% CC ownership?)
Either way, they're limiting the people they sell to to a tiny market, and then they don't actually offer something special.
The Pixel devices are some of the most expensive smartphones ever, but both special. They have the same waterproofing and features as a normal mid range phone, they have no exceptional warranty such as apple, they have no special software or hardware features like the Samsung Galaxy Note Series' Stylus.
Google sells a couple flagship phones, no downmarket phones (they don't, AFAIK, even still sell their older flagships), and doesn't really market them heavily compared to the big players in the handset industry. I don't know if they have any carrier deals besides VZW.
Compare this to Samsung, who currently has four flagships (S8/S8+/S8 Active/Note 8) and a dozens of downmarket phones plus still selling older flagship generations. Google isn't trying to compete across the whole spectrum of feature preferences and price sensitivity the way, say, Samsung is, and their unit sales reflect that.
Google offers only one or two (differing in size not features) phones every year or so.
A huge number of phone sales are not flagship phones, but <$300 ones.
Just to be clear, I got the single SIM version rather than the dual SIM version (I didn't know the dual SIM version existed until a moment ago).
Also like that there is a scale applied to it and it can be a negative thing:
[...] there can be too much sisu, and according to the survey answers this leads to bull-headedness, foolhardiness, self-centeredness and inflexible thinking.
The future prospects of Nokia stock are tied to 5G network deployments. 5G deployments start already this year, but they will be slow at first. Things start move along 2019 when first 5G networks and devices (including phones) start to appear. 2020-2022 will show if Nokia is the winner in the battle for market share.
Are there any new user-serviceable phones on the market? or should I just keep doing the Ship of Theseus thing with Amazon greymarket parts until the phone market shakes out into less of a nightmare for users?
Really nice little phone I thought, perfectly servicable for light usage and felt nice to hold. A bargain for the £100 or so that I paid for it.
CDMA is only used in a single country, one where Android is massively underrepresented, and it binds you to a single SoC vendor.
The next generation Intel modems will support CDMA https://www.forbes.com/sites/aarontilley/2017/02/23/intels-n...
> CDMA is only used in a single country
And only on the legacy 3G networks of 2/4 major carriers at that. Even in the US, CDMA is on its deathbed.
As far as I'm aware, two Chinese carriers, China Mobile and China Telecom, use CDMA. China Telecom I believe for everything, China Mobile for its 3G (4G in general is a bit harder to come by there in my experience, so often the only option for mobile data is 3G).
But the US uses CDMA instead of GSM for audio and SMS content.
We're already seeing this transition happen in other markets - in Japan, while KDDI is still running their 3G CDMA network, new iPhone models are not being provisioned to connect to it, using solely LTE (thanks to the LTE coverage being superior as they can use the low spectrum freed up by analog TV).
What does LTE-only coverage look like on Verizon? Do you miss out on much if you pop a Verizon SIM in a device without CDMA? And do they support VoLTE?
EDIT: added the still
Nokia is a B2B company that sells most of the backbone equipment for telecom (Those 4/5G stations, every other Service Routers or core routers out there, etc etc ).
The acquisition of Alcatel-Lucent in 2016 helped a lot here.
So this is not 'real Nokia' in my opinion. However, an Apple product or a Google product that is actually made by an OEM (Foxconn/HTC/LG etc.) is 'real Apple' or 'real Google'.
The problem with badge engineering is the badge.
HMD Gobal. Building 2, Nokia Campus, Karaportti, 02610 Espoo, Finland.
Money comes from Foxconn and Foxconn also manufactures the phones.
I bought a Lumia 720 which I used for 3 years and still works perfectly another 3 or 4 years later, although the Windows OS was lacking in many ways, the phone itself is engineered extremely well, drop resistant, and doesn't even require a case.
I've broken more Samsungs than I can count in extremely short periods of time.
If the Nokia quality is still there I would love to go back to Nokia.
HMD is headquartered in Espoo, opposite Nokia's head office, and the company is largely staffed by former Nokia executives.
That said, it seems that much of what sunk Nokia back then was American pension funds pushing to turn a Finnish company American.
In a way it was similar to when Stringer was put in charge of Sony, a culture clash of epic proportions...
I know this is what they claimed, but this made absolutely no sense. Windows Phone wasn't a closed OS available only to Nokia. Windows Phone would only make them another me-too brand fighting over even fewer scraps, but with an OS that was far more immature, had little to no user base, had little to no 3rd party support, and had a UI they could personalize even less than Android.
With Android at the very least they could have had some differentiation by creating their own skins and launchers, etc. but Windows Phone did not allow them to do even that.
And if they did not want to differentiate on OS, then why not go with the OS that had far more 3rd party support than the one that had virtually none?
It makes sense, even if it turned out to be a bad choice: while, yes, they wouldn't have been alone and the committed WinPhone audience was, well, negligible, they wouldn't be playing catchup to established vendors on the platform; they'd be on a more level playing field, and if the platform took off and they managed to be (one of the few) early dominant players on the platform, the rewards could be great.
OTOH, the platform didn't take off, so...
The part of Nokia that was making Symbian phones was sold of to Microsoft and is now long dead. The Nokia that remains is focused on mobile and wireless infrastructure. The company now making Nokia branded Android phones is actually HMD Global.
That said, HMD is based basically across the road from Nokia and staffed with many former Nokia people.