That having been said, im not sure id trade California for Ohio or other so called "flyover" states. The only time they end up on the nightly news is when they violate marriage laws (Kentucky) for gay couples, stage a massive white supremacy rally (Virginia) or pass some arcane law that either wipes out womens healthcare or edifies teaching autonomous ignorance in place of biology in school.
Is there an independent perspective on these cities? Something that cuts to the point of what living in Tennessee is actually like? can I still get bulgogi and ramen? how does healthcare work? I know these states would get quite a few more transplants if they or someone just explained what it was to be a part of them.
The vast majority of America is a wonderful place. Ditto that the vast majority of Americans are wonderful people. Seriously go for a road trip and expand your mind. Plus the country itself is beautiful.
If you can find fulfilling employment (or work remote) then you can have a wonderful life just about anywhere. Usual advice is to pick somewhere where you have family and happen to like the seasonal weather (or lack thereof).
True if you're white, male, and heterosexual.
> Seriously go for a road trip and expand your mind.
So maybe my initial thought was out-of-context. I do agree on the beauty of this nation. We really do have quite a bit to offer in terms of natural sights to see.
I've heard the Thursday evening flights into Nashville called Bachelorette Flights because so many bachelorette parties go to Nashville because it is a really fun city to go out on the town at night.
All of that and they still have no income tax.
You casually throw out Virginia like it's some backwards callback to the confederacy, but Northern Virginia probably has as many progressives as any area in the country due to government jobs.
There is an ugly side to many of these places outside the major cities in the US, there is good reason to be very wary if you don’t fit into the social norms for the more remote areas.
I really don't think lack of information is driving population. If you really want to move somewhere, visit it first and see if you like it. No one else can tell you if you will like it, or if the trade-offs you will inevitably have to make will be worth it. If you can't be bothered to do that, then your high rent and home prices probably don't bother you as much as you think they do.
As others have mentioned, your views on these areas seem a little colored by the actions of the vocal/vitriolic minority. It's the exact same mentality as the view that everyone in tech in Cali is a douche-nozzle tech-bro. Patently false.
Just because an area leans one way or the other doesn't mean that you can't find like-minded people. But that's also a little insular, I think. In fact, I think it's healthy to have a mix. Living somewhere that everybody thinks and feels the same is how you end up with the legendary SV "Echo Chamber" that the world decries so vehemently. It's okay to occasionally meet someone you disagree with. I'm not right leaning at all but I know plenty of people that voted for Trump who aren't racist jerks and who I am perfectly comfortable to call my friends.
Virginia is a flyover state now, what? Like half the federal government lives in Virginia.
Perhaps the nightly news is not the best source of information? Flights are cheap enough that you could look at some of these places and form your own opinions.
States like OH and KY have more rural space, which tends to lean conservative, which increases the chances of hearing about extreme-right nonsense.
I would imagine the opposite is true in states with more urban space and the nonsense of the extreme left.
Urban areas in OH and KY are similar in terms of cultural offerings and advanced technology of most cities. Or at least they are in Columbus....
>how does healthcare work?
The same as the rest of the country (read: badly)
>these states would get quite a few more transplants if they or someone just explained what it was to be a part of them
"Flyover country" is dozens of states and regions. It's different from state to state here in the Midwest, much less the Southwest or the Rockies or whatever. There's no one-size-fits-all description. As for the negative media stereotypes, shitheads doing shithead things isn't unique to the non-coastal areas. You don't hear about good news or positivity because nobody cares that Arkansas is doing well when there's other things to talk about.
Also, by moving to a state that leans more conservatively or is a mixed back, you as a concerned liberal actually have a better chance of standing as a bulwark against more conservative policies since your votes actually matter more.
A lot of those states get people because of what you mentioned - the high cost of living here. When you're a parent, your needs change, so a lot of young couples I know who can't compete in the housing market or daycare costs here (LA) have been looking elsewhere.
In terms of job prospects, you're unlikely to find yourself in the reddest of red areas, which are mainly rural. You might be a slightly more limited depending on what you do but as long as you have a skill in need, you can probably find a job. There are some major, major US companies in 'unlikely' places.
Here's a geographic showing of the Fortune 500:
Maybe that's a good place to start in terms of looking at states with something to offer.
It's such a personal decision its hard to say there's just one.
For instance if bulgogi and ramen are important, Raleigh actually has a very large Asian population (or at least it did the last time I researched it thinking it might be a nice place to live).
But like the suburbs of southern California, even the flyover states have an embarrassment of riches whether it's food, culture, or whatever. Some may have stricter blue laws or laws on cannabis, some may have better infrastructure or social programs, and some may have better internet and tech infrastructure.
It all comes down to your own deeply held values and desires, but I do think there's something for everyone in this crazy country we're blessed to live in :)
Funny that you pointed this out, does that make any difference to anything? A fridge is pretty cheap to buy. About 1 week's rent.
In the UK each landlord has their own idea of what to supply. So some places have a fridge/washing machine other's don't. It is a bit frustrating when moving as sometimes you need to buy new stuff, sometimes you need to sell stuff as you have duplicates.
I don't think the decision to include a fridge or not is intentional. If someone lives in a property, decides to rent it out and can't be bothered moving the fridge they think 'sod it the tennant can use it'. Conversely someone 1000 miles away using an agent would just say "rent it out" and not even think about appliances.
I imagine even in the flyover states they have apartments for rent that don't come furnished with all the creature comforts.
I'm not sure what more I can say on the topic of "fridges in rented apartments" - so I will finish there :-)
I'm a California Gen-X-er, my 2+2 house rent is less than that, comes with refrigerator and other appliances, and my city is not on fire.
And I can get bulgogi and ramen just fine.
Also, VA isn't fly-over; it's (like California) one of the coastal places fly-over is contrasted against. And it was hostilely targeted for a white supremacist rally by largely out-of-state groups, it didn't choose to have one.
Not sure I see a connection between national news-worthy headlines for a given area, and how it might be to live there. If everyone took this approach, Florida would be zero population.
See if you can find local news sources, as small-scale as possible, to get a better feel for a particular place.
No, that's a fucking terrible idea; just a little less terrible than using non-local news sources. No 'news source' has any reason to disclose all the wonderful but boring details of any places it covers.
Disagree. Tiny town super local news is often hilariously revealing when it comes to the day-to-day mundane realities of the area.
I would never move back to Ohio, but that is for very personal reasons. I'd actually absolutely love to get out of California right now, but my wife is working her dream job for her dream company and cannot work remotely -- So, we are here for the long haul, it would seem.
Columbus is an amazing city with some of the very best health care in the world in the Ohio State Wexner Medical Center. Cincinnati wasn't far off, either, at least back in the 00s, and Cleveland, as well, but don't quote me on that. How it _works_, I couldn't really comment on. My experiences with health care in the area are almost 2 decades old at this point, but my father is a very sick man who has managed, miraculously, to keep trucking (on pacemakers for the last 13 years) in no small part because of the access he has to great health care living somewhat close to Columbus.
Columbus, OH is also very gay friendly. Are there bigots there? Yes, of course. There are also bigots in every neighborhood I've lived in, in California, in Atlanta, GA, in San Antonio, TX, etc...
There is a lot of culture in the area, as well, and it can be had for affordable prices. The Columbus Symphony Orchestra is great and tickets are, I believe, still easy to come by (financially). There are plays. There are museums. There's only 1 professional sports team in Columbus, so it is utterly dominated by The Ohio State University sports, but Cleveland and Cincinnati both have MLB, NFL, and the Cavs are obviously in Cleveland. Pittsburgh is a great city to visit, has major sports teams, great food, lots to do, interesting history, and is only a 3 hour drive. The Bourbon Trail is nearby (though I've heard mixed reviews from friends). There are Frank Lloyd Wright homes that can be toured (Fallingwater and Kentuck Knob both being about 4-5 hours from Columbus, close to Pittsburgh -- I've taken my wife to both in the 3 times that we visited the area). Cedar Point and Lake Erie are fun in the summer.
> can I still get bulgogi and ramen?
Some of the best Korean food I've ever had in my life was in the middle of Georgia, for what it's worth, and I now live in Irvine, CA and eat Korean at least once every week. It's very easy to discount the places in the middle of the United States without ever having been to them. And I'd encourage you to visit some of these places. I spent quite a bit of time in Nashville and Memphis and Raleigh and Savannah for work and loved my time in each of those cities. I have friends working in Nashville today and they're always droning on about how much they love it. I've been to Austin, TX, and it's a fun town, too, but I'll never live in Texas again by choice, but you may have a different experience.
There are a lot of great cities out there with a lot of opportunity, especially for raising a family, and people should stop making judgement calls on them based on things they see in the news (or, at least, do your own research).
You are quite narrow minded and exhibit exactly what they describe as "coastal elite".
> millennials are flocking to 10 US cities to get a job, buy a home, and start a life
> 10 US housing markets Trulia expects will grow next year while remaining affordable and attracting young buyers.
What happened with Silicon Valley is that the ease of working remotely increased, but the pace at which new innovations are discovered and commercialized increased more, which means that the returns to moving really fast (which usually means a colocated team, to cut out travel/timezone delays) went way up. It doesn't matter if you can save 30% on labor costs if it means that you miss out on a $100B market that just opened up.
If you read Carlota Perez, this trend usually reverses itself in the "deployment" phase of a new technology, where market structure has stabilized, best practices become widely known, and the expertise surrounding the technology becomes distributed geographically. For example, the deployment phase for mass production (initially a Massachusetts monopoly in the U.S. in the 1830s and 1840s) came as the great Midwest steel mills and factories were built in the 1890s, the deployment phase for railroads (initially a Midwest & Northeast thing in the 1850s & 1860s) came in the 1910s as railroads were completed linking the South & California into the nationwide network, the deployment phase for automobiles (a Detroit thing in 1900) came in the 1950s and 1960s as suburbs spread throughout the U.S.
The catch is that usually the transition from "frenzy" phase to "deployment" phase is marked by a financial crisis, depression, and war. If the new geographic region was on the same side of the war as the new means of production (as with the U.S. after WW2), then the mechanism of diffusion is usually that lots of people are trained in the new technologies as part of the war effort, and when they go home, they bring these technologies with them and start up new businesses that become part of the fabric of the local economy. If the tech monopoly is on the opposite side of the war as the new geographic regions (as with the U.S Civil War, or Asia post-WW2), it's usually because the side with better technology won the war, conquered everyone who resisted, and a bunch of carpet-baggers move into the occupied territories, bring their technology with them, and then integrate with the economies they left behind.
I assumed its really due to a lack of well paying jobs, combined with an increased debt burden from college.
I guess one could argue technology has lead to increased automation and reduction of jobs typically found outside of cities.
Close. It's because there's been a massive reduction in low-skill jobs that can still pay the bills outside of cities (whose size sustains their service sector, so you can keep the people who can't cut it at university employed).
Robotics did this somewhat; Chinese slave labor doesn't help.
Seriously though, of course houses are cheap in Ohio. The 3 major Ohio cities are all giant sprawling semi-urban areas, with very limited public transit, while the rest of the state is in varying states of rust belt recovery (or collapse). The few walkable, connected neighborhoods in Columbus (Upper Arlington, the nice part of Grandview, etc) command prices that would be tough to afford on a west coast salary, let alone the 60k-90k you'd make in Ohio.
EDIT: However I do agree that public transportation sucks there. BUT it can be far, far more pedestrian-friendly than my current environs.
Their only drawback is isolation from west coast hubs.
Not sure what you mean by isolation from west coast hubs. Is it because service from RDU still has to hop over to CLT sometimes? Because that does suck. Even flying home though, I have to connect via Atlanta to then hop to CLT sometimes. Travel was way easier when it was LAX/BUR -> DFW -> CLT.
NY has an advantage that there are flights to SF, SEA all day every day.
Depends on what sort of work people are looking for. If you're trying to do a hyper-growth startup, then yes, unfortunately you still have to be near the VCs in SF.
Though maybe that's also changing: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15849795
RTP has plenty of well-known companies that provide a solid base for employment in the area. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to have created the same sort of money flowing into startups as happened in SV back in the day.
As I argued in the thread I linked to, it might be a bit misguided for these folks to run around trying to fund a hyper-growth style startup in 'flyover country' (which I don't consider NC) when what's probably more beneficial for local communities are stable, sustainable businesses.
RDU is a decent airport too. Maybe not all the amenities of some but much easier than CLT or LAX.
Durham is way cooler than Raleigh!
6 fort worth,
5 san antonio,
4 el paso,
1 grand rapids
"California: great weather all year, earn much less adjusted for CoL"
"(e.g.) Minnesota: great weather for 8 months of the year (11 months if you ski or play ice hockey), earn much more adjusted for CoL"
So maybe you just haven't seen the talent in the rest of the country and assume it isn't there?
At the very least members of the academy could selfishly try to come to some harmony with the people who control our budgets rather than blindly lash out against them.
However it is fully well possible that in a complex world such as ours that there could be more than one serious threat to the very large set of institutions which is academia. It is also possible that one of the threats, lets say the internal threat, could be used as a smokescreen by a second threat, lets say these nebulous billionaires. We do not need to be worried about either threat at the exclusion of the other.
if common good is your objective, then there is no doubt that controlling individual & corporate political donations is essential. right now, political corruption is straight up legal. entities can freely trade money for future political measures, and politicians can't live without that money, because otherwise their opponents outspends them, getting a statistically higher chance of winning.
If you're receiving 50k in tuition in exchange for work/research, that's a valuable benefit and part of your compensation. IMO the universities should pay their researchers more. They're effectively using the exemption and the high cost of tuition to lower their research costs. For many top institutions they get public funds, underpay their researchers, and use them to acquire patents which they license out for large sums. So they're publicly funded but they own the patents, earn a lot of revenue from licensing but tuition keeps going up like crazy.
Politically it's probably a really dumb move, but they're receiving valuable compensation in the form of tuition. I'd love to have all my primary costs covered by my employer and be paid less (which would drop my tax bracket) too. Unis can pay their researchers more.
I'm in Austin, I like it, I don't see myself ever buying a home, but I'm happy renting. I've owned homes in the past and I honestly didn't like it.
Also people are being priced out of homes. You know why there are hardly any townhouses here that were built after the 70s? COA banned building single family homes on lots smaller than 5750 sq feet. That regulation was removed LAST year. Your options for buying property here for anywhere near our median house value was basically buying a condo in a midrise or buying a 70s house up north (which is what I had to do). If you go to Dallas or Houston you can find really nice 2-10 year old townhouses in the middle of cool areas for $200-300k. Appraisals skyrocketing 30-50k/yr for the last 2 years has caused my property tax to rise $200/mo .. twice. And that's with homestead exemption. $800/mo in property taxes alone for my 70s regular-old-house. I'm sure it'll go up another $200 next year.
Median household value is $400k now. http://kxan.com/2017/06/14/report-shows-austins-average-home...
Been considering Olympia lately. Visited a few months ago and it was a really cool place. Felt like Austin probably 30 years ago. People still owned houses "downtown." Super walk/bikeable and a lot going on. I was shocked when I realized it only has 50k people.
Also you're so damned central in TX that I can't go camping anywhere fun without a minimum 8 hour drive.
It is very bike (although all my friends disagree) and walk friendly. I got rid of my car and have been biking and walking every where (my apartment is downtown). Minus insurance, car payment and parking fee my rent is about what it was in Oklahoma, but in a much better location and quality of life.
I came from Oklahoma a few years ago, where I owned a house in Tulsa and then Stillwater. Home prices are very similar to what you describe. For $200,000 to $300,000 you get a mansion, brand new even, in a very nicely kept up community with little to no H.O.A. fee (for keeping it up and access to the community amenities like club house and pool and trash).
Edit: Do you mean Olympia, WA?
My mortgage is 1400, my property tax is around 750 for reference. I previously had a fancy unnecessary downtown apt (studio) for about $1700, now I'm around 2500/mo after insurance, etc. I put very little down, my bank only required 3.5% down but I put around 10% down. The house I bought has gone up $100k in the last 2 years so I figured if I didn't buy now I'd never be able to buy.
If only salaries went up 10-20%/yr like my property taxes do.
It's tempting to consider buying a condo downtown over at 360 or even Seaholm for the reasons you list. I would put down 20-30% though. I do not want to live outside the city. I like being in the middle of everything. I've toyed the idea of moving back home to Minneapolis or trying out Portland. I don't want to deal wit cold weather. My parents are retiring and just bought a home in Sarasota. They have invited me down with them. Which is tempting.
I'm 2 miles from the domain which is one reason my property taxes are so high, $380k 3/2 house. So, while I'm not "in the city" it's a $6 Lyft to go to rock rose, train downtown is 5 minutes away (but stops going north at 7pm).
I lived in midrises forever. I got absolutely sick of dealing with parking garages every time I wanted to go drive somewhere. Beware as well, some of the downtown highrises require you to use and pay for valet services. The Austonian didn't require me to use it but there are a couple that do.
I just wanted a damned nice townhouse like I had in Houston. They started building them in 78704 but they're $800k (because 78704). These sorts of things; https://i.pinimg.com/originals/16/f0/4c/16f04c1392ade123104c...
They're perfect for me, I'm single and just have dogs. Right now I have a front and back yard that nobody ever uses.
Thanks for the heads up about Sarasota. The reason I left my cushy lifetime job in Oklahoma was because of the lifestyle. I was bored out of my mine. Nearly felt like I needed prozac and psychotherapist just to make it through the days (I didn't, but it sure felt like it). Coming to Austin, with in a day or few I was cured. My parents would have moved to Austin, as they love it, but dad was dead set on a boat and water and ocean front (they bought a house on the ocean and are shopping boats now).
You lived in the Austrian? I don't have that kind of spare cash, at least from the prices I have seen advertised.
If you are downtown and bored and want to meet up or something, my email is in my profile. You should hit me up. Love to chat more if you are interested.
Not downtown much but I'll drop you a line when I am. I stay in my little 3 mile bubble around the domain mostly these days. Pretty boring and quiet but everything I need out here.
Hilariously, growing up 880 was known to be the worst highway wrt traffic but with increased employment in the peninsula, 101 has legitimately overtaken it I think.
I have a 4 mile commute South (from South Congress/Barton Springs straight up South Congress) on my bike. I easily can beat traffic often times. Even without traffic it takes just a few minutes longer (lights, speed limits).
The job market here has been fantastic, there is a great metro life to be had, housing is decent, plus the country and small towns around it are easy to commute from. 20-25 minutes to a Great Lake, fantastic beaches, even better beer. Grand Rapids is a fantastic place to call home.
That being said, I'm from Detroit but if I had to live in Michigan again I'd be in GR.