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> What else could they do? Refuse and loose access to that population?

... yes ? that would require putting human rights above profits, though.



I'm partial to the idea that companies should put human decency above profits, for sure. But let's talk specifics.

Making a principled stand is often important, and can make a big difference in the world. That said, I often see an assumption that China would bend if companies would just stand their ground. History suggests that this is not the case at all. China would be perfectly happy for all non-Chinese companies to withdraw and leave WeChat to stand alone. WeChat which happens to give the Chinese government access to any and every message they want. So other companies might be able to feel better about themselves, or not, but we can assume it will have no bearing on China's actions.

So, how does it benefit humans or the cause of human rights for Apple to completely withdraw from China over this? Chinese users would lose access to secure iMessage and a device with a secure enclave, but would gain... what?


...or even just an assessment that the long-term profits are greater in a world where human rights are absolute.


Why do you assume that this is the case? China itself is a great example that absolute human rights are not really a requirement for a great economy, growth, and profits for those involved.


But then they would have to be able to prove that in a court of law.

What people don't understand here is that the principle of fiduciary duty binds the hands of a lot of these companies. If you don't hold the controlling voting interest in the company... you really have very limited room to maneuver legally speaking.

Now if Apple could count on its shareholders not to sue them...

THEN they could operate in the fashion that you postulate.


Ugh, this is most definitely not true at all. Apple has repeatedly refused to bend to shareholder's demands, and has suggested that shareholders unhappy with Apple's focus on environmental conservation (at the expense of greater short-term profits) should buy a different stock.


Tim Cook has shown that Apple has no problem telling people to ditch their shares when the interests truly don't align. [0]

[0] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/mar/03/tim-cook...


When is the last time that a jury found for a plaintiff who sued a company for being too friendly to human rights?


What does that achieve? May be it's ethically better, but what does it actually do that is a net positive to the consumer?


I agree. Yes. Perhaps I should have said I have zero expectation that most corporations would say yes. They will decide they just cannot ignore a chunk of the world population that big.


iOS is probably, on the whole, better for human rights than the alternative (Android, especially from a Chinese-native company). Better to compromise than leave them with nothing.




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