Ask HN: Down-voted comments

[Maven911]

Has anyone noticed that lately if you comment with an idea/thought that is not in-line with the majority crowd, it will get down-voted immediately ?

Maybe it's just me, but I use to remember a time when opinions from both sides of the table were respected and appreciated.

This might just be conjecture, but could this be the warning signs of YC news starting to become reddit ?

[ecaron]

Do you have any specific threads to point to where you're experiencing this? I actually find that a lot of my comments get upvoted when they're out-of-line with the majority, but provide good counter-arguments. (I find that in-line-with-majority comments get overlooked.) So, if you'd share some examples, that'd really help for backing/refuting your conjecture.

Looking at the threads you've been downvoted for (http://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=Maven911), I'd say you feel this way out of spite but the downvotes are reasonable given your comments are neither insightful nor are they informative - merely speculative with a side of passive-aggressive and needless sarcasm.

[binspace → ecaron]

I don't find his comments out of line and deserving a downvote. My question is what purpose do downvotes serve other than allowing frustrated readers to retaliate against a "bad" post? > a lot of my comments get upvoted when they're out-of-line with the majority Your arguments have to be better. Simply stating differing opinion and anecdotal evidence (not always invalid) will often result in a downvote. I would find it more useful if the topic were explored, rather than censored.

----

Bummer, this story got censored. I think this is a good discussion. Obviously there are some unhappy people.

I wonder if there are any sites that do not have downvotes. Honestly, the lack of a downvote button really attracted me to Hacker News. It's a shame it's being liberally used.

* Sorry about the double post. I was not able to create a new post.

[csallen]

While I'd say it's a rare occurrence, I've definitely noticed an increasing trend of comments being downvoted by people who simply disagree. It happens in some threads more than others... Just try voicing a contrarian opinion in a thread about privacy, for example. It also happens more often in non-startup-related and non-programming-related threads.

I think a solution, if one were to be implemented, would be requiring people to specify why they are downvoting a comment. Or better yet, to choose from a list, as long as it doesn't include "I disagree" as an option. At best, it would prevent irrational downvotes. At worst, it would at least allow people to see why they're being downvoted and learn from it.

[carbocation → csallen]

I don't know if pg still feels this way since this post is from 881 days ago, but at one point he said the following:

"I think it's ok to use the up and down arrows to express agreement. Obviously the uparrows aren't only for applauding politeness, so it seems reasonable that the downarrows aren't only for booing rudeness." [1]

Of course, the community could decide that, at this point, downvoting for disagreement no longer makes sense. I'm pretty agnostic on the issue.

[1] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=117171

[ABrandt]

...could this be the warning signs of YC news starting to become reddit ?

I hate to pick at straws here, but this single phrase has been repeated across HN threads for years. No, we are not becoming reddit. Some past references:

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1420440

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=258551

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=560517

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1110251

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=572808

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=144390

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=235490

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=508028

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=926604

Some of these go back as far as 2 years ago (I'm sure theres earlier examples out there as well). I think edw519 explained it best with his graph here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=926644

[sounddust]

In my experience, if a good comment that is "not in-line with the majority crowd" gets downvoted, it will bounce back up quickly. On the other hand, poor-quality comments stay voted down over time.

[mfukar]

Majority can do that; there are also comments which are full of misinformation and wild assumptions, yet get upvoted like crazy because of their "tone". I hate it, but it's not my pathology.

[jmount]

Sometimes things go well and sometimes poorly on the voting. A common pattern on Hacker News is: first you think Hacker News is great, then you thing it is turning into Reddit and then you think it is great again. The different impressions may depend on if you visit the main feed page or visit the newest links page (and how often you do that).

[ugh]

I wouldn’t worry about single downvotes. You will bounce back soon enough.

This place is big enough for there to be some crazies who downvote irrationally. No big deal.

[Keyframe]

Eternal September, I don't see any other explanation. Maybe a link to http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html should be displayed more prominently.

Also, there are a lot of off-topic submissions that serve no purpose at all. Flagging them helps, but not always. I understand majority of folks here are web oriented crowd. Fine. But do we need a submission every time Apple lets a fart out, or antenna issue PR war - what does that have to do with 'Hacker News'.

[mikecane]

I don't worry about my comments getting down-voted. It has happened and I figure, Eh, screw you for not getting it. Just ignore it and move on.

[Jake541 → mikecane]

The problem with ignoring it is that HN turns into Reddit. It's good to stay mindful of why we're here.

[petercooper → Jake541]

People say that as if Reddit is bad or undesireable. IME, Reddit's discussions are usually pretty good, as long as you're in a sub-Reddit that lends itself to good discussions (e.g. "programming") and not "wtf" or "pics" or something where stupidity is guaranteed and desired.

[mikecane → Jake541]

No, the problem with replying to a downvote is that it's no-win. If I state something I know should be -- and is -- obvious based on my own experience and knowledge yet it gets a downvote, how does arguing with an anonymous idiot accomplish anything for me or entice people to keep reading that thread? Better to move on.

[RossM → Jake541]

With /r/programming quickly becoming a mirror of HN I've reason to believe it is just redditors coming to HN. This in turn is leading to more joke/pun comments (something I haven't seen on HN in a long time) and the more liberal applying of downmods.

Edit: I say "quickly becoming", it's been like that for a while actually.

[anatoly → Jake541]

"Why are you here, soldier?" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHY8NKj3RKs

[jsz0]

I down vote comments that are rude/disrespectful or attempt to derail good conversation by stating opinions as absolute facts. It's very easy to structure your comments in a way that gives people room to respectfully disagree. That's the art of having a good discussion.

[tman]

There's a little bit of that on HN. Not more than other places. HN is certainly not "Digg."

On the other hand, if you attack the big SWPL shibboleths (human neurological uniformity, homosexuality as mirror-heterosexuality), you tend to get stomped on. I've known hard-core Marxists who are less fanatic about believing what they're supposed to believe about this sort of thing.

I generally assume it's because the worldview of the average HNer is not even a little bit informed by biology. Just look at the uncomprehending awe that your average hacker holds the for the term "neural network" or "genetic algorithm."

[Ardit20]

I think perhaps the place has become too big and certain common assumptions or implied conventions, etc, are not as widely understood or known any longer. Thus, people down-vote for whatever reason they wish.

Perhaps PG should write down some guidelines in regards to comments.

Also, why can we not down-vote stories?

[ihodes → Ardit20]

http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html -< your guide, from PG himself.

[binspace]

I suppose the downvotes in this thread is for irony's sake.