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iPhone 8 (apple.com)
206 points by antr 10 months ago | hide | past | web | favorite | 286 comments

This may sound like the most ridiculous criticism, but I was really disappointed that the iPhone still uses the lightning charger port and not USB-C. Every other device charges with it including Apple's own laptops. Though seeing how long they take to adopt some features that seem standard to android users (like 4G LTE and wireless charging) in their smartphones, I guess this is to be expected.

It's very valid criticism. I was hoping that with the move to Qi for wireless, Apple would also move to USB-C for wired charging. It's ridiculous that you can buy a new iPhone and a new Macbook pro and they need a USB to lightning adapter to connect to each other.

It's pretty silly, Apple used to pay attention to details like this. But, how often do people plug their phones into their computers these days? Speaking for myself, it's probably been a couple of years since I last did that.

I do so when I need to charge it anywhere outside home. I don't bring a power adapter, just the cable.

Also, for those who have USB-C laptops, it would mean one-cable to rule them all -- even if they don't plug the phone into the laptop itself.

I do it every day to transfer photos, update calendars, etc. - the wireless sync is very unreliable.

I do it to use the iPhone personal hotspot via wire instead of wifi because it has better latency, especially if the wifi enviroment is crowded.

> It's very valid criticism. I was hoping that with the move to Qi for wireless, Apple would also move to USB-C for wired charging.

I imagine they're hoping to get rid of the charging port altogether, so don't see the point of changing now. I would prefer one standard also though. That said, I imagine this is some time off, given Qi's charging speeds.

It is not valid, most people who will buy the iPhone 8 will have USB-A.

That said, they should give you a choice of cables.

It's because of licensing fees and controlling the accessory market.

It might be that and that they moved to the lightning connector too recently. Those cables and adapters add up to a lot of angst from people.

I would bet that a lot of it has to do with the outrage that occurred when Apple switched from the dock connector to lightning. People were up in arms about how apple switched 'just to make more money' blah blah blah.

I bet Apple will switch after they feel they've had the lightning connector out for long enough that they can say it was time.

the port is vestigial since they are moving towards wireless charging. Also, it allows for one last generation still compatible with current accessories.

They need to leave a few features for the 8S and XS upgrades.

I've had a new MacBook Pro for under a year and 3 of the USB-C ports are now super slack and have no click to them at all. I find it a horrible connector.

Mine still has a solid 'ka-chunk' when I plug it in. You might get your setup checked.

Mine's fine. Maybe you got a defective one? Worth asking for a warranty fix.

Do you think that's a problem inherent to USB-C? Or just how they've been implemented in the MacBook Pro?

Neat, wireless charging, exactly like I had on my Nexus 5, around 5 years ago :) The best thing about the iPhone 8 is that it might finally make wireless chargers more commonplace, they are extremely convenient as Android users have been trying to tell for years.

Here's another one trick Apple might want to pick up on: I own both an iPhone 7 and a Nexus 6P, and the fingerprint sensor being in the middle of the back on 6P is unquestionably a better choice (Samsung messes up the placement). You can pick up the phone, unlock, and pull down the notification shade in one single natural motion. Maybe a few years from now...

I thought the fingerprint scanner on the back would be a good feature until I realized 90% of my phone usage involves me pulling it out of my pocket.

- On my iPhone, I just pinch it with my thumb on the home button while I pull it out.

- On my Pixel, I have to take it out and then unlock it.

Also, when the phone is resting on a table, I can just unlock my iPhone by touching the home button. With the Pixel, I have to turn it over first. When all I wanted to do was read a message I just received, possibly with dirty hands.

So putting the unlock on the back of the phone doesn't seem very well thought out at all.

>On my Pixel, I have to take it out and then unlock it.

This isn't my experience at all. By the time it's out of my pocket, my index finger is right on the scanner and the phone is unlocked.

Might be a function of the size of the pocket or of the hand, though.

That all depends on _where_ on the back of the phone. With my Nexus 6P, the fingerprint sensor is located right where my index finger naturally goes while holding the phone.

With a correctly located rear fingerprint sensor, it becomes an automatic motion without thinking rather than having to consciously find and press a button.

Except for the 'no hands while locked on the table' part.

It's an oh so common use case.

It's OK Apple just obsoleted that use case by requiring your face to be in the camera's recognition zone. No more unlocking it while it's on a table!

I have a pixel (and previously a Nexus 5x) and I easily and naturally unlock using the fingerprint sensor on the back as I remove the device from my pocket. The sensor is located within very close proximity to where my index finger naturally falls where doing so.

Which is to say, although the rear position may not work well for you personally, this may be a question of user preference with no generally superior solution.

> Neat, wireless charging, exactly like I had on my Nexus 5, around 5 years ago :)

And I think we can all be grateful Apple decided to go with the Qi standard here rather than roll their own! What a mess that would have been...

Wait, they're just using Qi without any extra fluff? Did they at least up the power transfer rates so I don't have to wait forever in comparison to wired charging?

FWIW, iPhone batteries are generally smaller than other phone's, so it should take less (they consume less generally, which is how they stay on-par with other phones).

Precisely the reason I never use my Qi charger: It's too slow.

Remains to be seen if this Airpower thing will be that.

That's true, but that sounds more like an additional layer to communicate charging info, negotiate which devices should get more power, etc.

I do half-suspect Apple probably tried coming up with a better solution (e.g. one not involving a charging mat), but ran into technical (probably laws-of-physics) challenges and went with Qi instead, because otherwise there's really no reason they couldn't have done this earlier. Or perhaps they just needed the time to re-tool for a glass case, who knows.

The answer to why it took so long may not be any more complicated than "Apple charging cables are notoriously short-lived and surprisingly expensive."

Airpower is exactly that and they said it during the keynote. They promised to work to make some of it a part of the standard eventually. You know how that goes...

Why did they not name it Apple Juice instead of Airpower? :) If you're referring to the FaceTime announcement, it was a third party that forced them to keep it closed (from memory).

FaceTime was also going to become an open standard which everyone could use... Here’s hoping though.

Actually, the device specs say both the iPhone 8 and iPhone X use Qi wireless charging.

Yes they are, but they have an extra protocol for their mat that supports multiple charges. They say they're trying to roll it back into Qi

> Neat, wireless charging, exactly like I had on my Nexus 5, around 5 years ago :)

Wow and Google got rid of it probably because the iphone didn't have it. I wish the hardware team at google would stop trying to copy apple and just do the things that make sense. Wireless charging and a headphone jack makes sense.

It wasn't necessarily only because "the iPhone didn't have it". They chose to make the Nexus 6P and Pixel out of aluminum, and likely got rid of it because they valued that material choice over a glass or plastic back.

> and likely got rid of it because they valued that material choice over a glass or plastic back.

once again, probably because apple did it.

Exactly this. I know someone who worked on the Android team around the time the 5x/6p was released. This person, though working for Android, still admired the iPhone greatly. I could see how this mindset transferred to the entire team.

Wireless charging will only work if it's everywhere. This new iPhone (and all future models) will make sure it catches on.

McDonalds and Starbucks _will_ have Qi charging tables by the end of next year.

Starbucks has had wireless chargers for a long time in most Bay Area stores. However, these are usually PMA chargers -- not Qi.

I have never been able to charge my Nexus devices which only have Qi at Starbucks, however my new Galaxy S8 which supports both Qi and PMA work at Starbucks just fine!

This does unfortunately mean that new iPhone won't work at Starbucks locations unless they replace the hardware.

In the past 6 months, I've seen all of that hardware disappear. Can't find a Starbucks offering the power mats in the tables anymore (and the circle dongles you would have to plug in).

The Starbucks in the Hillsdale Mall has power mats in the table.

Many locations of both already have this and have for quite some time. But you're right; maybe this will speed up their deployment of wireless charging.

It was really cool to be able to go into a Starbucks and, while waiting for a drink, drop my Android on the table in front of me and let it charge. Now we just need to get laptops on board with this.

>Many locations of both

In NYC and San Francisco, sure. Technology rolls out to the flyover states a little slower, though. Apple helps accelerate it a bit more.

I'm willing to bet if I asked about Qi charging in the McDonalds in Brodhead Wisconsin, they would not have it. A year from now, though, is a far better chance.

Starbucks has Qi integrated tables all over the place in NYC today.

Are you sure those are Qi? The ones in Silicon Valley locations are PMA. https://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/starbucks-wireless-c...

They worked with my Galaxy S6 so pretty sure it's Qi

All the new McDonalds in the UK have Qi charging tables.

> the fingerprint sensor being in the middle of the back on 6P is unquestionably a better choice

I've been very happy with the fingerprint reader positioning on the Sony Xperia Z5 Compact: as a part of the power button, along the edge of the device.

It's exactly where my right thumb naturally rests when holding my phone. (And lines up nicely with my left middle finger rests, if I'm holding it in my left hand.)

Side view: https://www.androidcentral.com/sites/androidcentral.com/file...

Wireless charging was slow and inefficient. Is this newer tech better?

I like that the charging bay is long so you can charge multiple devices. That's cool.

It's slower than a wire, but it doesn't matter in practice. You put the phone down on your nightstand or desk as you would have done anyway, and it charges. There's nothing to think about.

It's like an electric car. Yes, it's slow to charge. But in practice it's always charged when you're ready to leave in the morning, so in daily use it's more convenient than spending 5 minutes at a fuel pump during your trip.

Problem with a charging bay is, you usually cannot use your phone will charging (compared to wired). It's only useful for overnight charging or long term downtimes.

> It's only useful for overnight charging or long term downtimes.

Not really - My phone sits on my desk next to me throughout the day. If it were charging every time I put it down, even 5-10 minutes at a shot, that would basically add up to a fully charged phone by the time I left my desk.

Right now I have to plug it in to do that, and I only do that if I know I'm going to be there a while - otherwise it's a hassle. With a mat, it's the same effort to put it down as it is without the mat.

I'm just glad at least Tesla doesn't seem to do planned obsolescence with batteries, the way smartphone OEMs do with their battery irreplaceable smartphones that seem to last 2 years before the battery degrades significantly. Tesla's seem to lose about 5% after 10 years

That's because Tesla has the room to properly cool the battery. Phones use batteries as heat sinks for their processors, and heat kills lithium batteries.

This is a reason not to use a thick case, and avoid charging your phone over 80% during the day.

It does matter. Modern smartphones have such abysmally short battery life that I have to charge my Samsung S6 twice during the day, in addition to the overnight charge. Which makes a slow Qi charger useless during the day.

Battery life seems to be almost entirely down to how much you're actually using it. My work Samsung Galaxy A5 (2017) lasts several days (really) because I only look do email and calendar stuff on it, a few times a day.

My iPhone 6s often lasts through the day and half way through the next, when I'm not doing much other than playing Spotify and using a bit of WhatsApp. If I'm actively using it, though, I have to plug it in towards the end of the day.

Depends on the modern smartphone, I have a Xiaomi Redmi Note 4 and it has amazingly good battery life (much better than my company-supplied Samsung Galaxy S8), I can sometimes go two days without charging.

They do cheat with ridiculous background app-killing "features" though (I've tweaked it to my liking and now prefer it)

when i'm in the office, i leave my phone on the bay to charge. i don't literally use my phone while charging, but i do pick it up from time to time to check notifications and then put it back on the bay. so it pretty much charges all day. it probably won't save me more than a second or two every time i pick it up and put it back down, but it's become so second nature to simply drop it on the table without looking that i can't imagine going back to a system where i have to use both hands (and more than an eye) to get a phone charging.

when i'm out, and if i know i will be out for a long time, i'll bring a battery along.

at night, it charges on the bay when i'm asleep.

Nope, this is the same Qi standard that's been used in almost every wirelessly-chargable device.

There's some competing standards like AirFuel (nee A4WP), which might be better. Doesn't matter if nobody uses them.

I think wireless charging slowness can be seen as a feature, not a bug.

Some EE major can correct me, but I think the slower you charge a battery, the better it is for its overall life. (So even for non wireless charging, if possible, it's better to use a 1 amp charger overnight than a 2 amp)

I had a Lumia phone that I charged wirelessly from 2012 to 2017, on its last day, the battery life was around 80% as good as its first day, much better than my friends' phones.

The only use case for me would be to put my phone at night when its battery was less than 20%.

Another thing I read about batteries is that it's better to charge them once a day[1] (so before nighttime) rather than many times during the day. Some people here comment that you always put your phone on the charging plate, I'm not sure this would be good for battery life.

Finally the best 'feature' I noticed is that it's really inconvenient to use your phone while it's charging on its plate, so you're less tempted to use it when going to sleep.

[1] http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/06/battery-charge-l...

The charging bay isn't a thing yet, they plan to make this in 2018, but it seems they need to create a standard for that.

I didn't really understand from the video what this new standard covers that Qi doesn't. Is Qi lacking the feature to charge multiple devices at once and why? Does Qi maybe only have some single-link communication channel between charger and charged-device? I don't know anything about Qi, so any insights are welcome.

My problem with wireless charging is that it gets my Nexus 4 crazy hot because of the induction. But that may be my cheapo charger, I dont know.

I had the same problem with my Nexus 4 and a nokia qi charger. The battery life got significantly worse in the months after I started using it. I have no way of knowing if that was the cause, but it seemed likely at the time.

Heat is known to degrade battery life/capacity. That's why middle range product (like those with a SD625) are better for battery life not only because they sip power, but because they don't heat up as much and you'll get a bettery life after one or two years compared to a more powerful SoC.

I never charged my Nexus 4 wirelessly, but the battery life collapsed somewhere into its second year. They were beautiful phones, but the batteries on them degraded abysmally.

That was my problem as well. The other problem that I had (which turned out to be a deal breaker) was that in order for the phone to charge, you had to place it just right on the charging pad. Otherwise it would show that it was charging (you'd see the lightning bolt on the battery icon), but the phone wouldn't actually charge. In practice, this meant that wireless charging was actually considerably less convenient than plugging a USB cable into the phone, since you had to check back on the phone after a few minutes to verify that the phone was actually charging.

Some pad solve this problem by having multiple coils inside of them. I don't think it solves the heat problem though.

> the fingerprint sensor being in the middle of the back on 6P is unquestionably a better choice

This is arguably not too relevant any more -- the current Apple flagship phone replaced TouchID with FaceID, and that's probably the direction they're headed in for future phones too.

The Nexus 5 was released less than 4 years ago.

The wireless charging is a gimmick. If you have a new iPhone, a new Apple Watch, and AirPods with apparently the proper case, then it could be compelling. I prefer to just have fewer things that need charging.

As you point out, it could have been done earlier but I'm guessing they waited because the utility is so small. Whereas Android manufacturers seem to want the most features, the most checks on the list, even if they don't necessarily work too well.

Wireless charging is not a gimmick. It's a category below Tivo for me in "things I never knew I needed but get really annoyed when without now".

I'm on a Pixel XL now, and I greatly miss the convenience of simply having a couple charging pads laying out throughout the house/office. It feels like a chore to remember to plug in the phone every night. I won't buy another phone w/o Qi charging support.

This probably annoys me more than anything about smartphones. New model of somesuch comes out, and it has a bunch of newer features, but a lot of features I've come to expect are suddenly gone.

It was never that way with PCs. A lot of things about phones are unfortunately not like it was with PCs. I'm amazed to say it, but I've come to view IBM and Microsoft as fantastic drivers of open technology during the PC area.

Well, it IS that way with PC's too, it's just been a bit slower. Try finding a modern motherboard with an AGP slot or a real parrallel port.

Try finding one with a serial port. And that technology is still in active use in IT networking and embedded devices.

Try finding one with a serial port

I just did. Found three or four modern motherboards with serial ports with much effort.

Sorry for some reason I read "laptop". It's much harder to find a modern laptop with a serial port, and a desktop is not very easy to carry into a datacenter.

Why do you need AGP? I'm very curious to know if it still has a use case.

AGP might be tricky, but buying a pci express parallel port card is trivial.

You don't own a MacBook do you?

I'm ready for wireless charging. My current phone (Android) get's a USB socket full of pocket lint every couple of weeks. Once that happens the cable won't go in properly and I have to spend a couple of minutes with a sharp stick and pick fuzz out of my phone. Wireless charging would solve this problem neatly, and since I already have a standard place for my phone I wouldn't even have to change my habits. :)

I haven't used wireless charging and am neutral about it. Why do you think it's a gimmick?

I've owned one phone with wireless charging and I have no particular need for another one. It'll be handy if it becomes ubiquitous - put the phone on a pad at the coffee shop is more convenient than carrying a cable to plug in to a USB outlet - but a relatively minor thing for me.

I'm often not at my desk at work, so when I am, I want wired so it charges as fast as possible. Additionally, both for during the day and at night, charging with a wire has the big convenience advantage of being able to use the phone while charging it.

Generally you can mentally sub out "gimmick" for "feature I don't use or understand" in any discussion. It's equally as meaningful and conveys the same information.

It was interesting to see how Apple tried to market the fact that you have to look at the phone for FaceID to work. I see that as a hassle, not a feature.

I don't think it went far enough. Consider the circumstance where an office or agent wants your phone unlocked. Your passcode is protected, your thumbprint is currently in debate, but holding your phone to your face? If that just always unlocked your phone without any sort of interaction from you? That's an uncomfortable level of privacy loss.

Thumbprint is not currently in debate, a Virginia judge ruled it lawful for police to force you to unlock your phone.


iOS 11 has cop mode at least.

iOS beta has a feature that lets you force passcode authentication without a reboot; I'm assuming this would disable Face ID as well but I don't think we'll know for sure until the new hardware and software are out in the wild.


A sufficiently motivated and legally-empowered government official will always be able to find a way to unlock your phone. If nothing else, plenty of governments would simply torture you until you gave up the passcode.

Biometric/facial ID/etc. are conveniences for the masses. They're not ever going to stop the secret police, and bringing up that they won't stop the secret police is not a useful objection, since nothing you can do will stop sufficiently-motivated secret police from being able to force you to access something you have access to.

I guess this can't be repeated enough: press the side button 5 times and it'll require a passcode. You can do this as you're handing it to the officer.

All of this debate is pretty irrelevant since refusal to unlock a phone is reason for police to hold you indefinitely until you unlock it. It's a misconception that locking with a passcode means you've "defeated" the police somehow. Most officers probably won't deal with the hassle, but if the officer is in a particularly bad mood or if they have reason to suspect you actually do have something incriminating, the officer will just hand it back to you and tell you to unlock it, and if you don't, to the holding cell you go.

Obviously the choice is going to be between complying or a holding cell. This allows you to make that choice instead of having it made for you. That's not irrelevant at all.

False. CBP yes. Police no. You do not have for follow their orders except for their safety. They'll have to drag you before a judge to force you to unlock it. And even then it is questionable is providing a password is protected constitutionally. Courts have ruled differently on this.

Not false. Police can ask for your password, and if you do not give it to them, you can be arrested pending a hearing with a judge. The judge can then compel you to give up the passcode (though they probably won't unless there's reasonable suspicion that you're hiding something - but again you're just banking on the judge's mood/feeling at that point), and if you don't, you can be held in prison until you do give it up.

The "questionable constitutionality" of it is irrelevant since in practice until there is a higher ruling on this, if you don't want to go to jail, you must give up your passcode.

They did say you have to look directly at the phone. If looking away is enough to prevent it from unlocking, that doesn't seem too bad.

Effectively you'll need to have your head on the table if you're ever detained, or be closing your eyes shut and not able to walk, or waving your head around. Any of those could be seen as not complying with police.

Just as not providing your thumb would.

> They did say you have to look directly at the phone.

But it will work with sunglasses too? I find it hard to believe. Just slap some sunglasses on the perp and unlock his phone. easy peezy.

It learns your face and can work around haircuts, sunglasses etc.

Well but that's the exact point - if it can work with sunglasses on,then it means you can force it to ignore whether someone is looking at it or not. Put sunglasses on someone unwilling to look at the phone - bam,done, phone unlocks without a problem.

How does it work around sunglasses if Apple also said you have to have your eyes open?

Just a guess: it uses infrared to somehow determine where you are looking, and sunglasses don't block infrared.

If this is true, then require looking directly into the camera is useless. Border agent could simply put a pair of sunglasses on you and unlock your phone easily.

In addition, you also have to have your eyes open for the phone to unlock.

So it will not work with sunglasses? FAIL if true.

They said it works if you are wearing glasses, so it will probably also work with sunglasses

Glasses are much more see-thru than sunglasses and therefore it may work with glasses but not sunglasses

This doesn't use visible light - it's IR.

A lot of IR is blocked by sunglasses. I know my IR iris scanner on my S8+ rarely works through sunglasses.

Rule of thumb - power off Phone. IPhone will force passcode on first unlock

In iOS 11 you can also quickly press the power button five times to require passcode for next unlock without turning the phone off.

something you should do if you're going to an airport/border/protest/pulled over/etc

If you watched the demo, they explained you have to be looking at the phone and have your eyes open. Forcing someone's eyes to open isn't impossible but would be difficult.

> Forcing someone's eyes to open isn't impossible but would be difficult

1. Be at border.

2. CBP officer requests to unlock my phone.

3. He/She holds it up to my face to trigger the unlock.

4. I close my eyes to prevent the unlock.

5. The officer presses the end of his/her gun on my head and tells me to open my eyes within the next five seconds.

6. I comply to avoid having my brains splattered on the pavement.

7. ???

8. iPhone is unlocked.

Or, you know, anyone else who wants to unlock it (cybercriminals, pickpockets, etc) can simply threaten your life over a phone (since, let's be real, people have died for less in the first world).

I don't see your point. This is true, but it's true for everything. Passwords, biometrics. Even a physical key.

If your point is no lock is safe from someone saying "I will kill you if you don't unlock this" then yeah, that's true.

Steps 5-8 are the same if you have a passcode lock too.

And step 9 is simple, call the bluff.

I don't see how this is a change from other identifications methods (passcode, fingerprints). If someone is ready to use unlawful violence to get your phone, you have no real way of avoiding it.

Some friends and I have defeated a few other devices with face unlock features. It was the super technical task of finding and printing a photo found on social networking sites, then holding it up to the camera. I wonder if apple has hardened against this.

30 seconds of googling would've told you that it uses a 3D mapping camera + IR to scan your face.

So no, printing a photo found on social media won't work. 3D printing a perfect model of a face might, we'll see.

Unlikely, since they hardened their model against professional face masks.

but the market for professional face masks that can pass a faceid check just opened up.

They did mention in the keynote that they worked with photos, as well as professional maskmakers and makeup artists to prevent this

It uses a depth sensor. And they have trained the neural networks to prevent using 3d printed masks instead of the real face. I guess they are using depth-ir-powered-video instead of still photos.

Did you watch the keynote?

Wasn't that for the iPhone X, not iPhone 8?

Of course, but you expect people to keep that straight when they just want to cast shade on Apple products?

These threads are just venting grounds for people with poor imaginations. In reality, these phones are probably going to be fun to own and these issues won't really affect common users.

When I posted it there was no separate story for the iPhone X yet.

> I see that as a hassle, not a feature.

I said this in another thread, but it really doesn't seem unreasonable to require your attention to unlock your phone, since it requires your attention in order to use it!

It really is the speed that will make or break this feature. If it's slow, forget it, if it's quicker than it takes you to move your thumb to the screen, then it probably won't matter to most people.

Attention isn't the issue. The issue is holding your phone directly in front of your face while it unlocks, which is far different from TouchID. If I'm using Apple Pay, I double tap the home button while it's still in my pocket and then wave it past the reader. At no point do I look at my phone.

Likewise if I'm checking the time or a text message, I'll hit the button with my finger while the phone is laying flat on the table. But that use case doesn't exist anymore either.

Unlike a computer screen, phones are not always pointed directly at our faces all day. It'd work fine to unlock my Macbook, but not my iPhone.

I'm not sure you have to hold it "directly in front of your face". It appears the the lens has a wide angle.

Do you often use your phone without looking at it?

I just vaguely hold it near the pay machine every day when buying lunch.

Touchid is a killer feature for me.

Not always, but it's useful some times. Say you are in a meeting / class and want to discreetly check something. Or while driving, in which case you want to deviate as little attention as possible. Ahem, of course those are hypothetical examples.

This is a pretty phone -- but I really wish they'd make a smaller phone around the size of the 5S with the option to change the resolution (e.g. LittleBrother in Cydia).

My 5S is slowly dying -- but I can't find a good replacement (new or used) that can be jailbroken. For me its the perfect phone, but I'm an extremely light phone user (email, phone, imessage, Simon Tatham's Net and Galaxy puzzles).

I guess I was hoping that they'd update the SE.

Dear Google, please build a native desktop client for one of your many SMS apps. -

I'm happily using the iPhone SE. I switched from an iPhone 6 because I like the form factor of the iPhone 5. I too wish that they would update the SE, but in all honesty it is powerful enough with the right camera specs and it is a perfect traveler camera... For now, I'm staying put. I also still love using the headphone jack.

This is fantastic. I'm definitely going the SE route. It seems that with most new designs of Apple hardware there is a design choice I actively want to avoid -- e.g. lack of headphone jack with the new phones, the bar on the MBPs.

A week or two ago a few dead spots started happening with my 5S. I can do most things, but I can't use the delete button when entering a phone number, and a certain row in Net can't be moved (this is my main concern...)

Now, if I can only find one on 9.3.3 I will be in paradise.

They still may, I hope. The SE was first released in March (2016), and it has been selling like hot-cakes... or very well, at a minimum. Having a iPhone on an alternative release schedule seems smart as well.

edit: to add the date of release.

Check out Pushbullet? https://www.pushbullet.com/

Pushbullet is ok, but with OSX its only a browser add on. With the way that OSX switches windows, its kind of annoying when I'm working and need to send out a quick message. And yes, I know I'm being picky :)

I also tried MightyText, but they kept adding useless junk to the already bulky interface. The service itself also wasn't consistent.

Overall, I'm surprised that Google hasn't flat-out copied iMessage.

The SE was updated in the spring, so you're complaining that the model is already 6 months old.

Spring 2016. This year it only featured a storage bump. It's still using 6S internals, which is fine for now but not exactly future proof.

I wish the SE was part of the regular refresh schedule.

> that can be jailbroken

Yeah, I think waiting for Apple to give you that is probably some misplaced hope.

nah, with this I'm looking for a used SE on 9.3.3. If I can't have that, I can live without the tiny text I hold so dearly. The LittleBrother functionality is something I'm surprised Apple hasn't included with its stock OS.

You do realize that resizing the system's text size is a standard feature in IOS right? Display & Brightness -> Text size. You can both increase and decrease the size considerably.

yeah, but its not enough. Its like ro.sf.lcd_density with Android -- I want to rescale everything.

When I was using an Android phone it was handy because I could get the tablet UI for most apps.

Who wants an all-glass phone? I get that the designers want this, but do actual users really want something so fragile? I've only ever had phones with plastic or metal backs, and I've never bemoaned the fact that they weren't breakable enough.

Their glass is actually more scratch resistant than the metal. Of course metal doesn't usually shatter.

I'm pretty careful with my phone, but I've dropped it in a way that I'm sure would have done serious damage if I hadn't had a case. Three times that I recall off-hand. So there is no way I'd not have a case on this.

Which bugs me because my 6s+ is still awe inspiring when I take it out of the case... but my case is a bit rugged, and the feel and thinness of the phone are completely lost with it. Yet I feel compelled to use it... too much risk of serious damage otherwise.

I’ve dropped my bare iPhone 7 probably more than a dozen times, sometimes on hard surfaces, with apparently zero damage. Very impressive materials, though I do worry about the waterproofing.

Who cares about scratches though? I don't care about scratches on the back of my phone. I do care if it shatters entirely, though!

I care because I sell my phones when I upgrade.

The real question is - who wants wireless charging? This is how they achieve that..

I would like it. It's not a super big deal to me, but I'd like it. In my car. As a part of the holder. Otherwise, meh.

In my car I hate dealing with cables.

My 2018 Odyssey minivan has a wireless charging pad option, right where I always keep the phone. Still have to plug it in to use CarPlay though. :(

The Nexus 5 had both wireless charging and a non-glass back, along with plenty of other phones.

And even if they were somehow mutually exclusive, I'd still take a non-fragile back over the ability to wirelessly charge.

I don't think Apple would ever have a plastic back on a premium device. The Nexus 5 back was not "premium", it was a soft touch plastic.

I think the key for wireless charging is a not-metal back. Glass or plastic would both work.

iPhone 4S was my first and favorite smartphone. Glass front/back with a metal edge.

Back when phones were hand-sized they were a lot harder to drop.

Completely agree. It was the most beautiful of all iPhones. It was bound to get shit the next iteration. After all, gotta iterate right? Gotta do something different, "better"...

Interestingly enough, they iterated to something that I think is far uglier than any other model, and then frustratingly have stuck by it for three years, four years by the time they might possibly replace it.

iPhone 4/4S design was awesome.

It's funny how Apple is calling this an all-new glass design when other phones on the market have a similar design and Apple themselves had this design five years ago.

> all-new glass design

It's technically true, it is all new. No other phone was the same (just very very damn similar). Yes, it's a cheap marketing phrase that's meaningless, kinda par for the course with an Apple keynote.

It is an all-new design - they never said or even implied that being all glass was new, but it is clearly an all-new design.

No kidding, iPhone 4/4S was a paramount of iPhone design and it all went downhill from there. I was almost literally crying when I had to upgrade my iPhone 4 that got unbearably slow and dated, to monstrosity that is iPhone 6.

Why not get an iPhone SE?

I actually think it's disappointing that the SE has it's own release schedule. I simply want a small phone with the same high end internals, but I'm not willing to wait and see if a new SE will come in spring. By that time it almost makes sense to wait for the next iPhone...and probably repeat this thought process.

The SE should be part of the yearly refresh.

I did!

I'd actually switched over to Android after the iPhone 4S, to an Xperia Z3 compact from fall 2014. That was competing against the iPhone 6 when Apple had apparently abandoned what I consider to be comfortably sized phones.

With the iPhone SE I was happy to come back.

It was not available when iPhone 6 came out.

and it created a wonderful market for people sell replacement back glass.

still does it really matter? how many phones are not in cases?

The iPhone 4 was my favorite device, design-wise, I've ever owned. I love the glass on both sides and am excited to see it return.

It was necessary for the wireless charging.

My old plastic/rubber back Nexus 5 had it. The glass is there for more than just wireless charging.

I think apple would be laughed out of Cupertino if they came out with a rubber iphone.

Not saying there is anything wrong with that... my moto x had a faux leather back. really cheap, but the phone was nice.

They wouldn't call it rubber, they'd use some space age sounding term for it and journalists would eat it right up.

"Polymer" is the word you're looking for. It's used all the time in the firearms industry, which tends to value functionality over form more than Apple does, I guess.

It used to be machined aluminium. So yeah, the glass was needed.

No way Apple would put plastic or rubber bodies in their devices.

iPhone 3 was definitely plastic, and it was horrible. Especially when the benchmark was set with the beautiful original iPhone.

Like they did with the iPhone 5c?

Yes, because I don't like slippery phones. Let's wait for the drop tests.

From what I recall hearing from Apple peeps 6+ years ago, it causes people to fetishize the phone more as a fragile object they have to protect and personalize.

I was in tech when iPhone came out, the original one. I thought that they might make money but to a tiny, tiny percent of people. Boy was I wrong...in some countries an iPhone costs like 6 months of net-salary, yet they buy it. Status symbol, you don't know I'm a "loser" making $150 a month, but you know that I have an iPhone.

So I'm willing to trust that Apple knows what they do. Of course they will know what they do....until they don't :)

>>Status symbol, you don't know I'm a "loser" making $150 a month, but you know that I have an iPhone.

Coming from such a country(India). Its also treated as a sign of recklessness.

Heck its the same in US too. Remember that politician who chided people for having money for a $1000 iPhone every year but no money to buy insurance?

> Status symbol, you don't know I'm a "loser" making $150 a month, but you know that I have an iPhone.

So very sad. Generally you see this with people that can afford it the least. $999 for the base model is just ridiculous. Next year Apple will offer the "first ever", "incredible" 10 year amortization on the iPhone XI. Soon they will reach price parity with the MBP and one could have apple gear or a down payment on a nice house Phoenix.

> $999 for the base model is just ridiculous.

Why? It's not the "base model" it's the lowest capacity of the absolute highest end phone in the lineup, which now comprises five different phones at much more reasonable price points.

So your argument is basically that no phone should be that expensive? I can't speak for anyone else but I hate that. What is wrong with a super-premium phone? If anything phones are frustratingly constrained by their price point.

People use them in the way they used laptops 10 years ago, they're your central communication hub and for many people their secondary or even primary computer. What's wrong with having a high end option for those that use their phone more than everything else.

I'm buying the iPhone X day one. Why wouldn't I? I haven't upgraded my desktop, laptop, gaming PC, tablet, or smartwatch in 2-4 years, but that's because I don't use any of those things even close to as much as I use my phone.

If I'm spending multiple hours a day every day using something, you'd better believe it should be the best one available. If you don't feel that way, there are four other iPhone options and countless Android options at your disposal.

>If I'm spending multiple hours a day every day using something


The iPhone 8 is $699 for the base model in the USA. ($999 is for the iPhone X, which has a separate discussion thread)

>All battery claims depend on network configuration and many other factors; actual results will vary.

They may not be the only offenders but it bugs me that the tech specs don't tell you the battery capacity in mAH. Instead they give a relative number of hours and compare to previous phones. Those aren't tech specs, they're claims-- which they can say in fine print are unreliable.

What would mAH tell you? Do you know the power consumption of the A11 chip, OLED screen, wireless stack, motion coprocessor, etc?

It's not like you can compare battery life between an iPhone and a JoJoMe $20 android phone based on mAH - that would be even less useful than an estimate of battery life.

On the other hand, a capacity in mAH is not the only spec about battery life they should provide. Each new phone tends to consume more battery, due to new processors, bigger screens, or other factors, so an indication of typical battery life is useful.

Not always. The newer Qualcomm chips consume significantly less battery due to changing to 14nm and 10nm processes.

Switching to OLED (as Apple did) also increases battery life.

First Apple SoC using their own GPU design, no more PowerVR IP.

And still pushing Metal...

No update to the SE? My wife has been holding on to her 4S for a long time because she thinks the 4.7" model is too big.

Nope, unless one counts dropping the price.

However since it was released in March many Apple-watchers expect any updated version to also be released in the Spring as well. (This seems more likely now since Apple didn't kill the iPhone SE)

I seem to recall reading rumors somewhere that Apple doesn't have plans for another SE. I hope this isn't true, though, because I love my SE and I hope that when it's time for a new phone, it can be an SE.

Doesn't seem like a huge improvement over the 7 - I guess they're trying to put all the focus on the X, but it'll be curious to see where they go from here.

I like the neural processor. More things being local is nice.

I'm disappointed that this doesn't support any of the 600mhz spectrum that is now coming online. This actually provides a fairly strong reason not to upgrade, since anyone buying a phone this year is going to miss out on this functionality next year unless they want to upgrade after only a year.

I don't think Qualcomm/Intel are ready to ship 600mhz chips at scale yet (is probably the issue)? That's what's suggested by a cursory googling

The memory is finally enough even on the base model (64/256). I know a couple people who bought the lowest before (16gb) and it was painful. They'd actually swap apps in and out.

Solid upgrade. I'll hang onto my 6s and my wired headphone ways a bit longer though.

I'd argue that 64GB is not enough. I was surprised to see that level of memory.

I imagine 4K video at 60fps would eat up a lot of that 64GB.

4k video using hevc actually helps cut size down a lot. 64 is still not very much but should be good enough for most people, especially if they rely on icloud.

10mbps (rough guess at the bitrate) would be close to 5GB per hour (once you factor in audio).

So many people already complaining of iPhone X black strip, how they overlook something so basic?

I think the true test is what people think about it after using one of the phones for a while. People very often make a big fuss about things they think they aren't going to like, where they often completely forget about it after a bit of time actually experiencing it.

It doesn't matter what they do, people will complain. Also, do you really think they "overlooked" it? I guarantee they had a ton of passionate discussions about it.

What's that have to do with the iPhone 8, which is the topic of the thread you are posting in?

I was ok with it until they played a video clip and it played it with the (partial) black strip.

Same. I think you can get used to the notch itself but if you're watching a video fullscreen then they _really_ need to fill in the rest so it's a solid black bar versus it obscuring part of the actual video.

Likely a software fix. The video they played was also from the 'memories' feature which may attempt 19.5:9 aspect ratio video when in reality most videos are 16:9.

Well you need to put the proximity sensor and camera (and IR dot projector) somewhere. The options seem to be:

- Thin, symmetrical bezels (Samsung S8, LG V30)

- Notch at top (iPhone X, Essential Phone)

- Big bezel at bottom (Xiaomi Mi Mix & Mi Mix 2)

It does seem an oversight that they don't just black out the space on full screen video and apps, though. That works fine on the essential phone, and it still looks cool in the launcher which has proper support.

You mean the notch of sensors? Yeah... not good.

Does a case block the wireless charging?

It needs to be a thin one. Wireless charging usually requires the device to be within a couple millimeters.

If your case stores your credit cards on the back of the phone like I do, yes.

I bet you the Apple cases don't.

It depends on the characteristics of the case and how far it stands the phone off from the base.

For what it's worth, my last phone with Qi was a Blackberry Priv with an Otterbox Defender case, and it charged just fine. I'd be very surprised if Apple didn't make allowances for something that common.

On my Samsung S7 the (relatively thick) case doesn't block the wireless charging.

I have a regular UAG case and it allows wireless charging just fine

The only thing my S7 Edge lacks compared to this is the telephoto lens.

Well, there's iOS for one…

And a big SoC difference.

They said water resistant, but can I drop it in pool and still use it?

There's YouTube videos of previous iPhones hanging out underwater for an hour with no problems. I think this is more of an official rating or whatnot.

Worth noting that this isn't new to iPhones, and it was introduced last year specifically in regards to protecting against falling into a pool.

The first footnote claims an IP67 rating

I bet they still don't cover water damage.

That's what I'm afraid of. I have the 6s Plus right now and when going swimming with kids and recording stuff, I'm always terrified of dropping the phone into the water. Yet, the apple watch can be submerged fine.

6S wasn't rated as water resistant, only 7 was.


This 8/X split is confusing me. Is one supposed to be higher/lower end? Or are they just different?

X is the flagship phone, and it's implied that it's the beginning of a new line of phones (the same way OS X was the beginning of a new line of operating systems, breaking with MacOS 9). 8 is the latest generation of the traditional iPhone line, succeeding the iPhone 7.

Do people still get excited about phones? It seems they are pretty much commodity now. I haven't seen anything really interesting over the last few years.

I am shocked that this is the top comment. It's entirely negative and has nothing useful to say.

The fact that this post is on the front page pretty strongly implies that people care, doesn't it? We live with our phones with us practically 24/7. If you're a dev, surely that's still exciting.

Yes, the planet got destroyed, but for a beautiful moment in time we created a talking poo app.

Are you trying to make a reference to the environment here? iPhone is one of the most environmentally friendly phones you can buy.

Unfortunately, the most environmentally friendly phone is still a horrible polluter because it is purposefully built to justify an upgrade each year, as required to survive in our beautiful free market.

No reintroduction of the headphone jack? Apple seems completely detached from the reality of what the trend setters actually desire.

Needlessly locking customers to Apple-only ecosystem of hardware since iPhone 7, Apple now signals clueless consumption rather than high-status to me.

Will be interesting to see what happens with the upcoming arrival of Pixel2.

Edit Why the downvotes? If you disagree I'd prefer (and be interested) to hear how I'm wrong, rather than drive-by downvotes with no communication.

>Apple seems completely detached from the reality of what the trend setters actually desire

iPhone sales have been mostly fine, right? It's not like the removal of the headphone jack cratered sales or anything.

>Needlessly locking customers to Apple-only ecosystem of hardware since iPhone 7

Pretty sure non-Apple Bluetooth headsets work with the 7.

>Apple now signals clueless consumption rather than high-status to me

Anyone here with an iPhone might not like being called clueless; might have led to a downvote or two.

I'm an iPhone owner who downvoted, but honest truth if he'd been taking about Samsung I'd have downvoted. Uninformed bile like that has no place on HN. Passion, high standards, a critical attitude fine, but at least get the facts right.

> Apple seems completely detached from the reality of what the trend setters actually desire

I upvoted you, but the idea of techies being "trend setters" is a ship that sailed long ago. People know I'm a tech geek, and up until 2010 or so, they'd ask me advice about what to buy. Today, nobody asks. My wife actually berates me every time I try a non-Apple product.

1) if you have Bluetooth headphones, they just work. Any brand.

2) if you prefer wired headphones, they just work too using the contents of the box your phone came in.

Seriously, you act like Apple released a smartphone without a screen. Grow up!

I'm about to buy my third Apple Lighting to 3.5mm adapter since last September, so yes it "works", but I don't have to pretend that this flimsy junk is how it should be.

Why do't you just open a warranty claim and have Apple send you a new one? Takes about 60 seconds on the website or in the apple support app.

I can make a warranty claim for the original headphones (which did break within about 6 months of use) themselves online, and pay $33 until I send the broken ones back. As far as I know there's no online process for replacing the adapter. I could take it to the Apple Store and probably get either replaced at no upfront cost, but that's a two hour drive for me, and none of these options solve the problem of Apple selling accessories that aren't remotely reliable enough to justify their price tags.

Just FYI, they do not charge you the $33 unless they don't receive the original after 14 days or something like that. I've done this on my debit card several times, and no charges ever, and the minute fedex scans the return label I get an email from Apple saying the return is complete.

I have no vested interest other than trying to be helpful, but this is the top rated adapter I saw on Amazon and it's less than $10 w/ prime: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074Z471T7

Added it to my cart, thanks!

Replaced due to damage or due to loss?

Damage, generally either it stops working in the left or right channel, or it starts causing the phone to "receive" random pause, play, or long press signals.

Then you need to do as the other commenter suggested and send it in for warranty replacement. For things like that, I've never had a problem getting it replaced just by walking in the store. I'm pretty sure you don't even need to go in, but that was always easiest for me.

Yeah, like I mentioned in my other comment, it sucks to need to do that in the first place. The store is well out of the way for many people, myself included, and I shouldn't have to be okay with wasting my time and generating landfill just to do something as basic as plug a pair of headphones in.

Bluetooth headphones are far from being at a point where they "just work". Pairing, battery life, and comfort have a long way to go.

Try out the AirPods, all three of your issues are addressed. Sound quality still doesn't remotely rival my studio monitors, but I also wouldn't be caught walking down the street with them either. YMMV!

I find it remarkably difficult to actually get a pair of AirPods to try. Nobody wants to lend you theirs to stick in your ears to see if their comfortable or not, nobody I know or work with actually owns any.

I wrote them off immediately because they look identical to the pack-in iphone earbuds, and those are unbearably painful for me to wear.

> I find it remarkably difficult to actually get a pair of AirPods to try.

Guess you don't have an Apple Store nearby?

That said, if the regular Apple EarPods were as painful as you describe, then you'll hate the AirPods. They are almost identical fit wise.

I don't agree. I found EarPods very painful, and the AirPods were rough for about a day and then my ears got used to them.

They look very similar, but something about how their weighted changes the fit.

Thanks, that has restored my faith a bit. There's not an Apple store here within 2 hours drive, so I kinda have to go on word of mouth for now.

Apple has a great return policy, "they don't fit comfortably" seems like a very valid reason to return to me if you don't like them.

You can try them on at an apple store.

Or any of the Beats W1 enabled headphones...

Comfort? How does bluetooth affect headphone comfort?

And all the Apple ones with the W1 chip "just work" when pairing.

Shit, even the 20€ chinese Bluetooth FM transmitter in my car "just works".

With hanging battery packs and behind the head cables, comfort is still an issue.

You can use any Bluetooth headphones with the iPhone, it's not hardware lock-in.

I believe Android phones are starting to abandon the headphone jack as well.

They started years before Apple did.

Courage! In all seriousness, if you were expecting a reintroduction of the headphone jack, you might as well wait for them to reintroduce floppy disks. Apple only looks forward. That's just how they roll.

of course they would not reintroduce the headphone jack, Apple does not do such a thing. They just accept that they did it too early and sit it out.


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