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The first Bitcoin Cash block has been mined (blockdozer.com)
373 points by TekMol on Aug 1, 2017 | hide | past | web | favorite | 327 comments



Can someone provide a summary explaining the significance of this event?


There are two incompatible "kinds" of bitcoin now because people disagreed about how to scale the technology.


Is it clear which fork was followed by most of the people?


There are several factors at play. First is that BCH is a hard fork, and thus miners need to actively choose to mine BCH instead of BTC. Exchanges need to add support for BCH. You can also look at hash rates, which show how much mining power is behind either coin. You can also look at transaction rates and exchange rates.

Despite all this, market forces may drive one or the other coin up or down over the next days and months depending on how important the differing features are to the community. It could also turn out that there is a market for both feature sets and they both do well.


By default people that don't change to a BCC client will follow the legacy chain, so if BCC is going to be dominant it will take a while to find out most likely. The price is likely to be very volatile while the market figures out which it wants to follow more.


Outside the bitcoin community? Not much.

Inside? First salvo in a massive political civil war between interests with different goals. There's this Bitcoin Cash implementation vs Segwit.


The first salvo was called Bitcoin XT. And the second was called Bitcoin Classic. And the third was called Bitcoin Unlimited.

And really, there were lots of skirmishes before any of that even. This is a long, old battle, and the fork is more like a resolution (two sides peacefully going their separate ways) than a continuation of the war.


I'd say it's only a resolution if the fork stays strong and has strong growth.

If it doesn't (and it's far too early to tell) then this schism isn't going to go away. It might end up moot but right now this isn't resolved, it's just a big push.


Fair, but the Segwit vs this is the current battle at least.

It's also the largest in a long while.


Can you mention some of the salvos fired by your side?


Such as? If there are any complaints against Bitcoin Core it is that they have been ignoring this issue, not fighting battles.


Gavin, a bitcoin developer, Satoshi Nakamoto himself gave commit access rights to Gavin.

They have not been ignoring this issue, they have been firing salvos and censorship left and right. Fighting the original bitcoin with all they had.


Gavin setup the github repo. So I guess he granted himself commit rights? But in any case I'm not sure what you're trying to say.


No longer a civil war at this point. The coin forked.


That's still a civil war. If the fork doesn't get/stay strong you think this will go away?

It's just a strategy. Granted, it's a good one.


It's like Brexit but for Bitcoin.

For years the market wanted to increase the arbitrary 1mb blocksize limit. They finally got fed up with the stalling/lies and forked off.

people were misled into thinking Hard forks and >1mb blocksize was "dangerous". Bitcoin cash proves these to be false.


>a few hours in

>nothing bad happened

>"it's totally fine guys"

I mean, you can say the same about a lot of disasters


Interesting to see that the backlog in unprocessed transactions on the original bitcoin chain is exploding at the same time: https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#24h


I suspect that many people are sending their balances to a new address, so that they can import their old keys into a Bitcoin Cash client.


The fees are very low, and all the same sizes.

My take on this is this is partisans of big blocks saturating the original chain; as if to try to prove a point. It does cost them some little amount of money, though.


ELI5: For folks who moved BTC out of Coinbase before the hard-fork, what's the next step? Said I want to keep both BTC and BCC. I had a hardware wallet, what are some implications that I move my BTC now to my hardware wallet?


I had the same question earlier, and I found the following statement by the maintainers of the Electrum wallet very englightning:

https://electrum.org/bcc.txt

In particular this section:

> How to redeem my BCC?

> BCC wallets will require you to import your seed or your private keys, which can be exported from Electrum. Doing so will expose all your Bitcoin funds associated with that seed to the BCC wallet you decide to use.

> Therefore, after the BCC fork, but before you enter a seed or private key in a BCC wallet, you should move all your funds to a new Electrum wallet, with a new seed. You will still be able to use the old seed or private key with BCC, because BCC has replay protection. Wait until your funds are confirmed in your new Bitcoin wallet, before you enter the old private key in a BCC wallet. This will protect your BTC funds from rogue/untrusted software.


Great find! I guess I will have to wait for that Electrum wallet which supports BCC then, then transfer?


Ledger is offering a split tool in their hardware wallets:

https://blog.ledger.co/managing-the-bitcoin-cash-fork-7229dd...


Not surprisingly, when BCH started, it ran up about $150 and at the same time, BCT fell by a similar amount (approx $2800 to $2650). And as BCH slowly falls, BCT is slowly climbing. Which makes sense if you view this as an equity spin-off.

I would expect this relationship to hold -- that for every dollar BCH gains, BCT is prevented from gaining a dollar. Unless somebody has some good reason this wouldn't be the case.

At the same time ETH ran up from about $205 to $225.


(I assume you mean BTC not BCT)

I would expect the total value to decline if there's not one clear winner, since the value somewhat depends on network effects (e.g. Metcalf's Law)


For posterity it's notable that at this moment BTC is at $2694.88, while BCH is at $691.94.

Following your assumption that means that the split increased the total value by about $600!

Make of that what you will. :)


Where did you get that price from because i dont see that BCH has been anywhere close to that since yesterday.


https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin-cash

I did happen to write my comment around the top of the price chart, as the current price is $447.


Quick Question: Sorry, don't know much about Bitcoin, but does this mean Block #478559 is the last block that was forked? Or the first block that was forked?


478558 is the last common block 478559 is the forked one.


Interesting -- It still shows "NO UNPLANNED CHAIN SPLIT DETECTED" on https://www.btcforkmonitor.info, which a lot of folks are using to monitor the fork (from the other HN thread).


Well it's not unplanned.... Note how the Bitcoin Cash box is a different color and says "This node's scheduled chain split has occurred."


Scroll down to the blue box. That's the bitcoin cash (bch) monitor and it says that the split has occurred as expected. The others were changed to bitcoin that were not expected to cause a fork.


Does this mean Coinbase wallet holders have officially missed out on the fork?


It means that Coinbase is currently sitting on a bunch of bitcoin cash that they don't currently publicly plan to distribute (Though if they do add support for cash, they will distribute it, apparently)


It might be useful to note that Bitcoin Cash isn't the first coin to be initially distributed to Bitcoin holders. I believe there are have been two other just this year, and I don't know how many in total.

Coinbase has not honored giveaways of these previous coins to their customers, so it sort of makes sense that they treat this one exactly the same. Otherwise they'd have to answer why they treated this one differently.

(Most other coins have just copied the UXTO set from a certain block height and not the entire historical blockchain. This saves a lot of space as you can start with megabytes of data instead of a hundred gigabytes. There are probably marketing reasons why it was made this way.)


Which other coins? Coinbase doesn't support many types of coins (only BTC, ETH, LTC), so I'm not surprised they are ignoring smaller coins. I just assumed they were not worth the hassle?

Ironically, Coinbase holding onto the Bitcoin Cash (by not supporting it, and hence not letting their users sell it) is probably helping it, since Coinbase users cannot dump their BCC for a quick buck. As you say, it's kind of a giveaway..


This is seems susceptible to a lawsuit. It would be the equivalent of a stock M/A or spin-off and your broker refusing to give you any stock issuance you were to receive.


Or is it something like this: SingerSoft has decided to give 1 share of SingerSoft owner of each share of Microsoft. Unfortunately you're broker isn't going to add it to your account for you.


Anyone is free to create a fork though, only the company you own shares in can make changes to the shares. If I create a fork of BCC called BCC Plus are you going to lose it when your favorite exchange doesn't give you what's yours?


Basically yes. CB has said that they won't support the coin.


You would think then that all this bcash is basically locked up and can't be spent then. If bcash does become valuable, you'd think that this would become a potential class-action lawsuit then?


Are there any reputable exchanges which you can buy bitcoin cash from yet?


Bittrex and others


Bittrex is telling me I can't... what others?


You can get them on Kraken


Despite having a higher hashrate than expected, the price of BCC is crashing towards 1/10 of a bitcoin. The network effects and name recognition of Bitcoin are too strong.


More markets are opening; bittrex [1] just opened and the price is now moving upwards pretty steadily (they opened at ~0.079 BCH/BTC and are now over 0.12), with good volume, 780 BTC ~= $2.1M so far

https://bittrex.com/Market/Index?MarketName=BTC-BCC


The bittrex price appears to have diverged quite sharply from, for example, the ViaBTC price[1]. At the time of posting this ViaBTC is 0.127 BCH/BTC and bittrex 0.194 BCH/BTC. I think this may be because ViaBTC is accepting BCH deposits and bittrex isn't.

[1] https://www.viabtc.com/quot/realtime?currency=btc&dest=bcc&c...


It's interesting to note the trend for the various BCC/BTC markets: the more volume the lower the price[1]. It could be a symptom of most of the volume being sellers dumping into bids.

[1] https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin-cash/#markets


Forgive the naive question, but how does the whole 'free Bitcoin Cash' thing work? I have a small amount of Bitcoin in the Exodus wallet.


Think of it like copying twitter's database then launching a competitor. All tweets, users, etc. on both sites are the same up until the day the database is copied. Then the tweets, users etc. can be different depending on which site folks use.

You get all your tweets on the new site for free.

Same with BCC. They copied the Bitcoin database at block 478558. So if you have a coin in a BTC account before block 478558, you now have the same coin on the BTC chain, and a copy of that coin on the copied BCC chain.

To use it, you just need to use a BCC wallet, the same way you'd use a BTC wallet to use BTC.

But if you don't know your private key (usually because your coin was on an exchange) then you are out of luck. Google if your exchange will credit you BCC.


I've tried explaining this to numerous people but never thought about comparing it to starting a clone of a website with the same DB to start with. Great analogy.


Also, you can write 1000 character tweets in the fork.


Great explanation, thanks!


Basically, Bitcoin cash is another kind of cryptocurrency as Bitcoin. The naming is somewhat confusing. If you owned Bitcoin at the start of Bitcoin cash, you get free Bitcoin cash.

There are technical differences that may make one or the other succeed.


Finally BTC has been hard forked and BCH & BTC are live.

Some fun facts: Forked should have name XBC as per ISO bt thats already taken so they named BCH

1st BCH block 478559 & BTC Block no 478559 where mined by ViaBTC

ViaBTC dedicated BCH block to her daughter by adding comment on 1st Block of BCH "�_M�*/ViaBTC/Welcome to the world, Shuya Yang!/�q���3�0c"


And it was rejected, wasn't it?


Is it possible that all these forks will eventually just become alternative cryptocurrencies just like Etherum or Litecoin?

People will use whatever fits their use case and there will be well-oiled exchanges arbitraging the valuations.

I'm probably neglecting some of the short term effects of a splitting chain here.


Also https://pointsproject.org for those interested in new curriencies


Does this take the pressure off the planned hard fork for Segwit2x? Big blockers now have what they wanted. Seems like BTC could now be the small-block paradise Core wants.


I'm confused by all this. What happens if you have a small paper wallet from a few years ago? That means you also have bitcoin cash now?


Yes


tl;dr what does this mean?


There is 2 bitcoins now. Bitcoin Core with feature of segregated witness (segwit).

And Bitcoin Cash with increased block size limit.



So, if you held 100 BTC before the fork, now you get to have 100BTC + 100BCC? Nice! Can we fork it few more times please? Me likes free money :-)


with an ounce of confidence, maybe people will be too greedy to sell it off.


the tyranny of the miners.




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