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Postage – A fast replacement for pgAdmin (github.com/workflowproducts)
247 points by justintocci on July 30, 2017 | hide | past | favorite | 127 comments

Pretty off topic, but this appears to be made by a family that's also a software company. Or the other way around. Awesome team page: https://www.workflowproducts.com/about.html

That's us!

Really cool. Can you tell us more about how that happened? How does an entire family somehow end up consisting of IT people and decide to start a software company together? :-)

What's dinner conversation like? Do you have an office or does everybody live and work in the same house and never leave except for groceries and bowling?

I have nine children, homeschool them and they start programming around twelve depending on interest.

I got fired because a new president wanted to hire his old it guy so my wife started a company. That was ten years ago.

Lunch and dinner involve a lot of shop talk because when people get stuck it helps to discuss. We all have different strengths so we get requests for a 'consult' when we take a break too.

We work in the livving room so phone calls can sometimes be funny. Kids being kids and getting shushed.

We have all local clients at the moment and we find visiting them helps to stir up work so we get out a bit.

>I have nine children, homeschool them and they start programming around twelve depending on interest.

That is awesome!

Have you written more about your experience somewhere online? I would love to strive for something similar when my kids are a little older (my oldest is currently 7) and I personally know several others who have similar hopes. Just seeing a real implementation of this oft-discussed prospect is very exciting! It's difficult to express the admiration I have for this.

Raising a large family is no small undertaking, to say nothing of mentoring a guild of devs. Major heartfelt congratulations to you, your wife, and your family of code wizards.

I haven't written more online, sorry. Happy to chat though especially if you have a parenting dilemma. You can reach me through our family website tocci.xyz

We do have an idea for a YouTube channel where we film our attempts to fix up our house. Any interest in that?

Thank you for your kind words.

What was your path to IT and programming? Formal higher education and on-the-job learning?

I bought a Tandy at thirteen (made the money washing dishes) and taught myself basic. Many years later i was working for a company addicted to Excel and moved them to MS Access and PostgreSQL. Within a year I was a full time programmer and have been ever since.

Mostly self-taught? Any mentors?

That's a whole new level of great parenting, congrats for the lovely family (and mustache!)

Who programmed this?

Hard question. There have been five or six versions over the years and no two versions were the same team. Joe and Nunzio did a lot of C and some Javascript. Michael did the second C version with me and more of the javascript than anyone else. Cross has fixed a lot of issues in the last year.

that is pretty incredible, would love someone to interview them and hear their stories.

Sounds like fun!

Pretty neat, looks like they focus on Supply Chain Management software. So many companies have awful SCM tools, glad to see they are innovating in this space.

Lately we've been bringing version control solutions to SCM and it's pretty cool. Just a couple weeks ago we started experimenting with mapping. We could really use a break-out product. Our clients love us but we've had trouble carving off a feature set that would be viable as a stand-alone program.

PGAdmin 4 is one of the worst software releases I have ever experienced. Version 3 worked fine, but everything was destroyed with 4. So many things not working, UI bugs, and you have to click multiple times to get to the same point as you could in one click in 3.

What a clusterfuck of a disaster pgadmin4 is. This is what happens when you decide to dismiss technology (electron) without understanding what the issues with it actually are.

It's using Qt, but QtWebEngine rather than QtWidgets or QtQuick. Qt is a great pick, iff you're building a native desktop app rather than a web app.

It's so depressing. I packaged it up for Arch Linux recently without realizing how bad the whole thing was. I'll probably be taking it out of the repos soon seeing as it doesn't even start anymore...

Fortunately pgAdmin3 is not going anywhere for now because BigSQL maintains an LTS release that stays compatible with the most recent Postgres versions: https://www.openscg.com/bigsql/pgadmin3/

So I simply continue to use pgAdmin3 until something better comes along because I also really didn't like pgAdmin4.

It seems like the BigSQL version of PgAdmin3 doesn't support SSL connections to the server:


Is that really the case? :(

Could work around it with stunnel until it's resolved

Is there a separate installer for their pgAdmin3 LTS version? It's bundled with their PostgreSQL server, which I don't want to install locally, but can't be deselected during setup.

PgAdmin 3 throws all kinds of errors with Postgres 9.6.

Not the version by BigSQL.

This is good news.

I honestly can't recall any piece of open source software being disparaged this badly on HN. People here are not given to panning such work, yet here we see very little restraint in the criticism. pgadmin 4 must really have some problems.

I've never tried it; I could tell from the requirements and the "deployment" instructions that I wanted nothing to do with it. Guess I saved myself some grief.

edit: looking back a bit I find this[1] "Ask HN":

   "The problem with pgAdmin 4 is that it is garbage"
And no one contradicts this claim.

To my mind this situation indicates severe dysfunction in the PostgresQL community. All indications are that pgadmin 4 has been failing hard for at least a year now, and worse, whomever is responsible for this appears oblivious.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14180966

"Failing hard" and "severe dysfunction" probably aren't the most realistic ways of describing it. The situation isn't good, but it also isn't bad enough for terms such as those to apply.

While it isn't exactly a pleasant tool to use, it's not like it's totally broken either. I've used other similar software that was much worse to use than pgAdmin 4 is.

It's slightly better than pgAdmin 3 in some ways, but it's also worse in other ways. Overall, it's mediocre. That might be the underlying problem: it doesn't live up to the high expectations that the rest of the PostgreSQL ecosystem tends to set.

If I had to give it a grade, I'd say it's a B- or a C+. It could be a lot worse, but it could also be a lot better.

I think "failing hard" is reasonable considering how much worse it is than the workhorse v3 that it replaces. I don't find it anything like "mediocre". It is the buggiest software I use regularly and has made doing simple things with Postgres harder and significantly more time consuming.

It IS worse than pgAdmin 3 in every possible way I can think of. It is slow, clunky and bug-ridden. Is freezes and crashes all the time. It lacks tons of features already available in pgAdmin 3. It doesn't bring anything new to the table other than being rewritten as a webapp.

Yes! Thank you thank you thank you!!!

I wish I could have said this myself. I feel there is a strong desire to get these issues out in the open and deal with this situation. Sadly, no moves are being made by those capable of doing so. If I can help in any way I would gladly do so.

I believe you are doing precisely the best possible thing; provide a good alternative. A good alternative obviates all the excuses.

Have to agree. I was using pgAdmin 3 that had its issues on Mac. When 4 came out, it looked so nice and I thought "finally they made it!". But after 5 minutes I figured out what kind clusterfuck it actually became. On the one hand, I cannot imagine who actually releases such a crap. On the other, it's foss and I feel bad complaining about stuff that somebody probably built in his free time.

PGAdmin 3 was simple and worked flawlessly. PGAdmin 4 is basically broken and unusable. I was forced to look for alternatives and ended up with PyCharm/Datagrip. It works great but is missing one key feature in that it can't list all the databases under a single server, something they are working to resolve.

I especially like the bit where HTML in a row actually gets parsed by PGAdmin 4. Apparently it does strip dangerous content, after some playing around with it, but holy hell, why would it be a good idea to even have this functionality?

I've given up on PGAdmin 4 for the next year at least.

Your comment made me so happy. I was asking myself if I was crazy, surely I was missing something for it to be this bad.

I really wish they would get it right, Postgres is such a powerful tool, it doesn't do it any justice.

As I understand it, one of the benefits of pgAdmin 4 is the ability to be deployed as a web application, phpMyAdmin-style.

Is pgAdmin4 only horrible as a desktop application or is it horrible in general?

I uninstalled PgAdmin4 after multiple attempts to use it. I'm not sure what all the errors are, but it even goes so far as to block system updates with all the mixed up dependencies.

PgAdmin3 still works great, and I see no reason to move from it, but for me, Emacs + postgres is great for building up tables and procedures, pgsql is great for admin, and PgAdmin is great for data inspection. I really wish all of this was unified in one environment, but nearly nothing works globally.

Have you tried to get to the bottom of a large result set yet? Rediculous. I feel your pain. Postgres is the equal of so many enterprise databases but pgadmin not so much.

If we could just get Postage named PGAdmin5 we'd really be in a good spot.

I've quite enjoyed 4 for the sole reason that it hasn't crashed once on me. I haven't been able to figure out why, but 3 has always been weirdly susceptible to it on my machines.

Still highly recommend DBeaver for working with Postgres.

My own post on the topic: http://alexpetralia.com/posts/2016/6/8/you-should-be-using-d...

I started using it a few weeks ago since I didn't like any of the solutions on Linux, and I came here to say that I've been delighted with DBeaver.

I recall JDBC clients have a problem with magic dollar-quotes ($$), which creates massive issues, especially when working with procedures and JSON. I ran into that issue when I tried Squirrel, does DBeaver run into this issue?

Thank you, this is great!

Is there a reason this was linked to the issues page rather than the repo root?

By the way, this looks really nice. It's an electron app, but it references having "a small fast C core library in the style of Node.js and NGINX." Can you go into more detail about the architecture of this and how it's related to Node and NGINX?

Some info here: https://github.com/workflowproducts/postage/blob/master/Fact...

Postage is based on 'envelope' and works the same but the envelope repo has more info about architecture: https://github.com/workflowproducts/envelope

I haven't tried it yet, but I would love to be able to point to a good example of an electron app. They really seem to have thought about this and considered where to focus performance.

"event-based" (i.e. asynchronous)

If you're on Mac, another great, albeit not free, Postgres admin app is Postico (https://eggerapps.at/postico/).

Funny experience. we tried to get into postgres.app not realizing they are they same company as Postico. Rather than point out that they weren't interested they just blasted us. Didn't find out till weeks later. Had a good laugh.

Postico doesnt have autocomplete so i haven't tried it but i'm sure it's a fine product.

I'm sorry if my response in January came across as harsh. I really do welcome competition in the PostgreSQL client space -- that's why we have the web page with all the Mac PostgreSQL clients [1] in the first place.

I didn't want to add Postage to that list because it didn't work with Postgres.app when I tried it [2]. If Postage now works properly with Postgres.app, feel free to open a new issue and I'll try it again.

[1]: https://postgresapp.com/documentation/gui-tools.html

[2]: https://github.com/PostgresApp/PostgresApp/issues/365

I have seen events like this occur with totally different projects on github because issues feels like a message board. A different way of handling it would be to open an issue in the Postage repo, put a link to the Postage issue in the PostgresApp issue and then close the PostgresApp issue.

I like how the Toccis were very proactive and communicating how they were working to resolve the issues but Jakob was right about how Github emails everyone with each comment.

I'm glad it was resolved here on HN.

I use the freeware app PSequel. It's so great!

Another great one for Mac users: https://macpostgresclient.com/

This looks nice too, though!

You guys are offering free phone support? For a FOSS product. That is pretty cool.

Also I would really recommend putting some of the screenshots on the Github readme page.

See bottom - https://www.workflowproducts.com/postage.html

You're right. I've opened an issue for it:


It's time we spent a little time promoting Postage.

Serious suggestion - do this : http://sidekiq.org/products/pro

Remember, it is very hard to donate...But very, very, very easy to pay for invoices.

This is one of the coolest postgres apps, that actually works on Linux as well. I would love to see this supported.

The main reason we haven't done this is because we had hoped to get Postage renamed PGAdmin5. Unfortunately, that outcome seems ever more unlikely. There seems to be some political reason why the PGA4 team continues to get official support while in ongoing trainwreck mode for a year now.

What kind of official support?

As somebody spending a lot of time working on PostgreSQL I'd like to know the same.

justintocci left another comment, which he has since deleted, but since I've spent some time investing in an answer, I'm posting it here. Justin, if you dislike being quoted, let me know.

> In fact, it really should have had these tools a decade ago.

What does "should" mean here? That it'd have been good? Sure. That people working (as a hobby, or as part of their employment) on PG should have stopped doing what they were, and instead focus on doing tooling? Maybe, but given the very very limited number of people and their skills I doubt it'd have been a good trade.

> So I propose a better question. Why doesn't PostgreSQL have free, enterprise-grade tools?

I think there's plenty of reasons, and everyone will weigh them differently: For one, the development community is actually surprisingly small, especially a couple years back; only in the last few years that's changed to some degree. Which means we're often struggling to get the crucially needed server features done, not to speak of delving into a bunch of features outside of our expertise.

Another big reason, and that might sound counterintuitive, is PostgreSQL's license. Because of it and the long community support cycles, companies around PG have a hard time making money w/ licensing etc. So they have to focus on support, training and value-adds. A number companies tried / try to make money selling software around postgres, more enterprise-y tooling among that. Often that doesn't turn out to work that well, because it's actually a lot of work, and without input from the larger community they don't get the necessary market penetration.

Thirdly, I think that PG's development is done by a number of different companies, with each company's share of development not being large enough to sustain the project, explains some of this. I think it's overall an advantage, but in some areas like coordinated planning, marketing and coordinated effort it has its downsides too. If you want to make value-add software around core you're not going to do so with a competitor.

Lastly, I think for a long time Pgadmin3 was seen as not being good, but kinda somewhat acceptable. But its implementation wasn't particularly clean, in a language relatively few GUI folks use (C++), using a dying and buggy GUI framework (wxwidgets). I think it was for a long time just good enough that MVP of something better wasn't all that minimal anymore.

I actually left two comments and deleted them both. It's very difficult to say these things from my position but I like everything you said a lot. If I had said them my obvious bias would have detracted from it. From my position it's just best if I keep my mouth shut, but these are important issues and I think very much in need of attention.

I'm interested in hearing other viewpoints as well. I'm certainly biased myself here.

Screenshots on https://www.workflowproducts.com/postage.html should be clickable thumbnails for larger preview. Otherwise those are too small to see much detail

I've posted an issue for it. Thank you.


Thanks for this.

That object dependency graph is a killer feature.

Well done Justin!


Not a big fan of it so I think I'll continue using PSequel and pgAdmin3.

With Slack already running, I can't have another battery hog running simultaneously.


If you're open minded, you may want to read this: https://github.com/workflowproducts/postage/blob/master/Fact...

Also, postage has a webserver mode that is simple to install (configure-make-install) and it does not use Electron. You just use a browser window.

>You just use a browser window

I don't think anyone who has a problem with Electron is going to rejoice at the option of a browser window instead. Typical Electron usage is problematic because it is a browser.

But Postage sounds like it might be the rare Electron app that is actually sensible.

>I don't think anyone who has a problem with Electron is going to rejoice at the option of a browser window instead.

I'm not going to jump around in happiness but I sure as hell prefer it as it's more resource efficient.

> Typical Electron usage is problematic because it is a browser.

Electron is a new copy of the browser for every application.

A link to Github issues and a GH page with zero screenshots. Thats not how to promote your OS project :(

You're right. Perhaps it's time to promote Postage. I've opened an issue for it here if you have any ideas:


Does this support JSONB column types? I was using Jetbrains Datagrip, which I've been very happy with except for the fact that it doesn't seem to support JSONB columns. I've switched back to PgAdmin 4, but the UI lag is really distracting.

If it doesn't do what you want just file an issue. We'll fix it. What do you mean by support?

Not the OP, but I would suspect that the problem is displaying JSONB as if it were plain text json without having to deal with manually converting it or relying on DB operations.

Opened or found a bug on the IntelliJ YouTrack?

I'll second this. JetBrains support has been fantastic responding to individual issues I've had.

This looks great! You sold me with the object dependency graph alone.

As someone who's fed himself as a PostgreSQL DBA for over a decade now, I'm excited to see what this can do for me. Thank you!

We feel the same! The lack of progress with the official client was what drove us to do it.

My personal favorite - Valentina Studio.

Available in windows, mac and linux. Can work with MySQL, PostgreSQL, SQLite.


Thanks for the suggestion. While the OP is awesome over pgadmin I had been looking for a good polyglot DB tool for a while.

Check out Navicat Premium

from their website [1]:

Navicat Premium is a database development tool that allows you to simultaneously connect to MySQL, MariaDB, SQL Server, Oracle, PostgreSQL, and SQLite databases from a single application. Compatible with cloud databases like Amazon RDS, Amazon Aurora, Amazon Redshift, SQL Azure, Oracle Cloud and Google Cloud. You can quickly and easily build, manage and maintain your databases.

[1] https://www.navicat.com/en/products/navicat-premium

Yeah, navicat is great! It's just for a small time developer / student, the $1,299.00 price tag is not really enticing. I'll gladly pay for a subscription model like adobe cc.

Dunno if it's still offered anymore, but Navicat Premium Essentials was a decent value - you buy a small base and add the features you want on top with IAP's. I didn't care for any of the diagramming / data modeling stuff so I just bought the base plus a couple add-ons.

Of course, I just use DataGrip now, but if you want Navicat see if Premium Essentials is still around as it may work for you.

I tried DataGrip when it first came out but found it lacking in some areas. I'm sure much has changed since the first release but are you wishing there are any features in Navicat that should be in DataGrip?

The notable missing features are the synchronization tools, beyond that I haven't found anything of import missing. The data modeling tools in IntelliJ/DataGrip aren't anything to write home about, but I rarely use them (I've always just busted out Visio or LucidChart for UML/relational modeling when I have to do it).

For my own work use I really have no choice but DataGrip, it's the only database utility that supports DB2 for i, Microsoft SQL Server and PostgreSQL - all of which we use heavily at work. But also being a heavy user of other JetBrains products (IntelliJ, ReSharper, PyCharm) having a familiar interface is a huge positive over Navicat since all of my keyboard shortcuts work the same and I only have two different (VS vs IntelliJ-based IDE) ways I have to remember how to do code snippets instead of three.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on the two.

You might find Vertabelo [1] useful and possible replacement of LucidChart & Visio for db modeling.

[1] http://www.vertabelo.com/

I've been pretty happy with DBeaver in that regard.

Yes, and best of all - it's free!

*with more paid advance features, but hey, if you need those, it's worth it.

Great work, I will surely check this out. At this moment I use pgAdmin 4.1 and I don't really like it.

There is a typo in the Description field of your https://www.workflowproducts.com/about.html page.

Desktop is written as destop.

Fixed! Thank you!

On a related note, a former co-worker built a similar tool. It's been helpful for me!


I wrote a PR[1] for NixOS that adds a postage service. Just add the following to your configuration.nix to enable a postage web server:

   services.postage = {
     enable = true;
     connections = {
       "local" = "hostaddr= port=5432 dbname=postgres";
BTW the postage devs were very helpful in fixing packaging issues.

[1] https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/27796

"Compiling Postage from source will only give you the server version and all first time users should try the desktop version first."

Sorry what? How does one go about "compiling" the desktop version, then? Or the installers that are supposedly great?

Something really reeks of red flags over here.

Seems like you just need to run the package-nix.sh or package-windows.bat scripts, which compile and package it as an electron app.

This is correct, thank you icebraining.

We stand by the README wording because we've gotten a lot of feedback from users who are not developers. There are additional README documents for developers.

Looks great! This is another option I've been using which I can suggest. https://github.com/web-pal/DBGlass

Also based on Electron

I've been using sqlectron (which is also based on electron), because that's the only one I could get working with Redshift (a Postgres 8.0 fork): https://github.com/sqlectron/sqlectron-gui/

Edit: I think I'll be sticking with sqlectron for now. Postage looks pretty featureful but very quirky. Good work on it though, good to have more free alternatives to Datagrip/pgadmin3 on Linux.

Looks great! Decided to install it and test it only to be met with a blank screen, the dev console contains no errors as well. Anyone else having this issue? (windows 10, latest release)

I got the same. Just a blank screen. When I clicked on the menu selections to edit the configuration files, it just opened another empty window.

Windows 10 latest.

I'm trying but I can't reproduce the error.

Microsoft Windows 10 Pro Version 10.0.14393 Build 14393(latest)

uninstalled Postage removed the following folders: C:\Users\jtocci\.postage C:\Users\jtocci\AppData\Roaming\Postage C:\Program Files (x86)\Workflow Products

Downloaded Postage.Windows.3.2.16.zip tried to install by double-click. nothing happened. (known Electron issue) right click to run as administrator install for all users, default location

Postage popped right up. Any ideas how I can get the error you're getting?

I did not install on C:. I installed on D:

I uninstalled and reinstalled as Administrator C: and it works now.

Excellent! I opened an issue:


We'll see if we can reproduce. Should be easy now.

Thanks for this, PGAdmin is painfully slow and clunky for me. Will give this a shot tomorrow morning!

it is good to see some one working on this, because Postgres really comes short when it comes to GUI clients when compared to Mysql.

Any plans for Linux support? I'm desperate for a postgresql admin suite that runs on Linux and in particular copes well with HiDPI displays.

Did you even check the downloads page? Theres rpm and dep packages: https://github.com/workflowproducts/postage/releases

Any PostGIS support?

We're actually working on mapping right now for a potential product so it might be possible to add something cool to Postage but I don't know what it would look like. Anything in particular you'd like to see?

Not OP, but I'd be cool to be able to view the results of a query on a map. For instance, if we did `SELECT * FROM points WHERE created < '2016-07-30'` and Postage detected a spatial column, show the returned geometries on a map (using leaflet.js or something similar, perhaps?).

Hmm. I don't know. I think we'd need to show them in relationship to some map, like google or bing for it to make any sense though right? Would there be a legal way to do that? Or am I wrong?

Help me out here.

I work in this sector - best and simplest use-case is to run your own OSM basemap and satellite tiles and fetch them on the client using Leaflet, embedding them in your application and rendering the data on top of it.

You'd only probably want to support one or two projections out of the box (EPSG 4326 and 3857, the respective geographic and projected coordinate systems that pretty much are the de-facto standard in GIS). The end-user would have to use PostGIS spatial query to project the data if they wanted to see it on map.

Then you would retrieve the extent (bounding box) of the data from the query, send that to your server, fetch the tiles, and have the Leaflet client render basemap under the data. You could look into https://github.com/lukasmartinelli/osm-liberty for some inspiration of self-hosted OSM.

For street level detail you could look at using OpenStreetMap. The main requirement there is attribution. But it's a massive amount of data and while there are free services, they do have load limits.

For a less detailed backdrop you could look at Natural Earth. For example, it has inner divisions of countries (so states and the like) in about 15 megabytes:


Or major city/town names in 1.5 megabytes:


(there are also less detailed versions of those datasets intended for use at smaller scales.)

OpenStreetMap could be a good source of a base map with a very liberal licencing issue, You'd only need to have a "Map Data (c) OSM contributors" on the map (IIRC).

The main openstreetmap.org tile servers are liable to block your application if you put too much load on it, but there are plenty of companies which will sell you tile server access, (GeoFabrik, ThunderForest, Mapbox, Mapzen).

Yeah, context would be useful. Perhaps default to some OSM layers (as others have said, the licensing is liberal), but allow the specification of custom tile-servers in the config for Postage (taking the form of a URL with placeholders for lat, lon and zoom).

How is this any better than any other database admin tool?

The chief goal was to make Postage faster than anything else. We've largely succeeded.

Hello, thank you for this app it is really great. I am not sure if it is really faster than anything else however it definitely feels faster than any other postgresql client I've tried (ok, except HeidiSQL but HeidiSQL has various problems with Postgresql).

Great work!

P.S One feature I'm missing is to extract the selected data (in the Edit Data view of a table) to a CSV or to the clipboard - is it possible? I wasn't able to find out how to do it :/

Select the records you want and just use ctrl-c on win or cmd-c on mac

That's a bold claim. Do you have any data to back that up? Benchmarks? Comparisons? What about resource usage? There's not much information on neither your github page nor your website itself. Just trying to find a reason why I should use this tool over my existing PostgreSQL admin tools.


But my favorite features are autocomplete, the ace editor functions like non-contiguous find/replace and the beautify button.

Also literally the first thing that happened once I opened it: http://i.imgur.com/v3xH9ye.png

Not the greatest first impression to be honest. Browsing through the app itself though does seem to be about feature complete with pgAdmin, however I don't really see it noticeably faster, at least for the things I mess with on a regular basis, so I guess I'll just have to take your word for it.

In any case, it seems like a decent alternative to pgAdmin.

Wow, how did you get that to happen? Could i get you to give us OS version?

That doesn't show much besides that you're basically on par with the latest version of pgAdmin. What about real benchmarks here. "Faster than everything else." In what ways? Faster queries, analysis, what? All I see in that doc is slightly faster start up times than pgAdmin. Also why are you instantly downvoting my comments? I'm genuinely interested here, not criticizing your work.

I'm upvoting everybody, i don't even have downvote privledges.

As I said, our goal was to be faster than anything else, i meant for your average development tasks. We spent most of our effort on optimizing query results but if you see something slow just file an issue and we'll look into it.

You have to realize, at the time we wrote it, i think seven years ago now, it was blindingly fast compared to pgadmin3, and Pga4 is still broken on large result sets. Many other tools use odbc or have architectural issues that slow them down.

Also why are you instantly downvoting my comments?

Users you reply to can't downvote your comments. The software doesn't show the down arrow for replies to one's own comments.

I downvoted your remarks, due to the egregious sealioning.

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