There are four issues that I'm currently aware of with 1Password:
1. They've converted from flat to subscription pricing.
2. They're pushing people to a 1Password-managed cloud sync system instead of the a la carte sync they were doing before.
3. They're promoting cloud vaults and hiding local vaults, and the Windows version of 1Password has apparently never used local vaults.
4. Now that they have 1Password.com, first-time enrollment in 1Password requires you to interact, once, with 1Password.com.
Of these, only (4) is a serious security concern. Their last release further eliminated the native app's dependency on 1Password.com. I'm confident they'll get all the way towards decoupling them, but I'm not them, so grain of salt.
I have no relationship with 1Password other than as a happy customer and as someone who does research in the field they work in. Having said that: I strongly recommend that you be very careful about what password manager you choose to use. The wrong password manager can be drastically less secure than no password manager. I recommend 1Password, and there's currently no other commercial password manager that I recommend. I'm sorry I can't go into more detail than that. :(
That's true - but playing hide and go seek with the non-subscription version is uncool.
I got a marketing email about a week later from Dave Teare and replied expressing my disappointment that publicly they're saying the stand-alone model will continue indefinitely but privately, they're "moving away" from the "lesser product" that they couldn't in good conscience sell me any longer. No reply.
The actions of Agile Bits are not matching the words in my experience and that's a big deal given the type of software they sell.
>3. They're promoting cloud vaults and hiding local vaults, and the Windows version of 1Password has apparently never used local vaults.
1Password has absolutely used local vaults since its inception. They STOPPED supporting them in the latest version which is ridiculous, frustrating, and feels like a bait and switch. Had I known that was going to be their tactic going forward I never would've bought version 4 for Windows.
And no, I don't want to hear about how "version 4 still works just fine" - version 4 has all sorts of bugs, on windows 10 frequently hangs for minutes at a time when unlocking the database, and in general looks like it was written as an after-thought.
It makes it maddening trying to get on a website, and having to wait for the vault. Input queues up in the meantime, meaning I can't click or type on other things. Then suddenly, my mouse will shoot around the screen and my characters will get typed to wherever I was.
Yes the UI is "classic Windows" not "modern UI" but written an afterthought seems a bit harsh.
I've been considering just going back to LastPass, but it all seems like a hassle. Why am I even paying for these companies if I can't rely on them? I should be paying because I don't want to deal with this shit. Which is ironically why I've toyed around using ownCloud and KeePassXC
You can switch again to a homerolled solution like you are suggesting, but you're not going to "no deal with this shit", you are now your own IT for this shit you homerolled.
But since now 1Password is changing their subscription model if I were the use Lastpass, what would happen if one day they would shutdown their services? At least with 1Password I have (or had) my local vault in Dropbox/iCloud/whatever and I could still use it.
So next step beyond that would be to roll "my own" (obviously using software written by actually smart people) password management system which used open source and self hosted parts. That way I factor in upfront the "I have to deal with this shit" part and it doesn't come as a surprise years along the line when the company I'm relying on goes belly up, or changes their business strategy or whatever. Obviously it's not perfect, but I have to consider things. It's not wise to just rush into things.
AgileBits has also used dark patterns, if I may call them so, on the website to hide or obscure what's available but not considered favorable by the company, and prominently push what's considered favorable by the company as if that were the only option available (one visit to the home page in the last couple of years is adequate to get this). This ought to be shameful for any software company, especially one that claims to care about the users.
When it was originally created and stabilized, 1Password was a great solution, almost like Dropbox in simplicity and value. But the focus has been sorely lacking on other platforms, like Windows (and of course, nothing on Linux). There doesn't seem to be a lot nowadays to justify what the end user gets from the subscription when there are other options out there (that didn't exist several years ago).
Ever since I started using Linux, I've looked for solutions and have been trying Enpass once in a while.  It's free on all desktop platforms and has browser integration.
Edit: Of course, it's also been quite sometime since I started using Keychain Access and Safari on OS X/macOS/iOS.
1Password 4 for Windows uses local vaults just fine - I'm using it right now. The new 1Password 6 for Windows does not support local vaults.
That's not a statement about 1Password; it's about the fact that the security models are different on the two platforms, and I'm very familiar with how 1Password works on macOS and less so on Windows.
At that point you should probably be about as (in)secure as access to the platform is. I don't know how you could improve much on that (assuming secureboot and bitlocker encrypted disk).
Is there some magic going on the MacOS side that somehow improves on this?
The hard problem is getting the passwords out of the encrypted store and into form fields in your browser.
They also support copying the password to your clipboard (which they then clear after a few seconds). There's also the automated entry system which basically emulates keystrokes.
1P4 for Windows was the last version that was "buy once and forever", but they weren't providing good browser integrations for that version.
I am happy to support them though, and gladly used their products.
I definitely don't want to have to unlock my vaults on their website though.
Are there any open source password manager products that you would recommend?
It bothers me when people point to other password managers as alternatives to 1Password because of packaging and pricing issues. It's easy to find other commercial password managers that have attractive packaging and pricing! That's not the hard part!
I happen to like 1Password as a product, but that's not why I recommend it.
I'd really like to know this as well.
I'm aware that LastPass doesn't have a perfect security record, but because of its prominence it gets lots of attention from hackers and security researchers, security issues tend to be well-reported, and the responses to them seem to be reasonably transparent and proactive.
In contrast, Enpass appears to be a side-project of a small app development house in India. Did a miss a memo where Security Expert X said Enpass is better than LastPass?
What I can see is that 1Password is pushing users towards a model that's fundamentally insecure. Their web-based products require a level of trust in 1Password (the company) that none of us should be willing to place in any company. What we've learned from Snowden is that any cloud provider can be secretly made to bend to their governing body's will. Running closed-source software on our own computers involves a level of trust in the authors of that software. That's just a fact of life when software isn't open source. But when code is pushed out into the world, it can, at least, undergo some scrutiny/testing by people outside the company. This is not true of software running on the company's servers. In so much as the security of 1Password requires executing a single, line of code on servers controlled by 1Password, the product is insecure and fundamentally unauditable because that line of code can be changed at any time without users being made aware.
The other point that should probably not get lost is that we're dealing with levels of security. In advocating for password managers, the interface absolutely does matter. Most computer users haven't adopted any password manager yet. When comparing a secure but difficult to use password manager, a potentially insecure password manager with an easy-to-use UI and a combination of insecure passwords, post-it notes and all the other terrible ways that users have of "managing" their passwords, the middle ground is likely to come out ahead for all but the most technically adept users. Need proof? PGP/GPG passes security reviews but has terrible UIs...what percent of emails are PGP/GPG encrypted? We shouldn't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. There can be different classes of security products for those that need protection from state-level actors and those that don't. Because people who are worried about that level of attack are generally willing to undergo a lot more pain to stay secure than your average user is.
1Password is an incredibly complex, solid and polished suite of software products that provides an essential security function. It absolutely boggles the mind that people get up in arms over the idea that they would be forced to pay $36 each year to use it.
It boggles my mind that people are so quick to support a company that's making changes solely for their own benefit to the detriment of their customers. I want AgileBits to succeed too. That's why I bought the software despite having access to a license from work. But try this for math...if they release a major update to their software every year and charge, say, $36 to update, it costs the same exact amount to stay on the latest version. As a bonus to them, they get the money all up-front and get to collect what little interest you can get these days. The main difference is that I don't have to worry about their company imploding and taking all my passwords with it. My software will work in perpetuity without any cloud service they provide. That's piece of mind that I need when it comes to my passwords.
I use Keepass. Reasonable security but ugly gui in linux due to mono. Has plugins. Completely offline.
How has your experience with it so far?
It is absolutely rock solid.
I'm not sure that KeepassXC can be considered unmaintained - their last release was in June, this year - https://keepassxc.org/blog/ . Also note the monthly tone of the updates - even the koolist of kool dev kids kant complain that is slow 8)
I can't yet wean myself off of LastPass though, just because it's synced everywhere and is more reliable when doing form fills on websites. For example, KeePass and its variants don't have a concept of equivalent domains. For "equivalent domains" I should be prompted with the same lists of auto-fillable credentials, such as:
LastPass gets this right, but I sadly haven't seen any other password manager that does. I think there's an open issue with KeePassXC to address this but it's not merged or production ready.
The problem is that they can't deviate from the official KeePass database format, so adding something like aliases requires hacks like the above.
KeePassXC doesn't support KDBX yet, but they'r working on it.
Other than that it has better gui if that is your thing (Keepass is ugly). It is mostly a fork of keepassx which is still usable but KeepassXC merged all pull requests and fixed a load of bugs in keepassx after the maintainer stopped maintaining. Try it. It works. It also has mutilple releases (snap, appimage etc.).
+ kpcli for TTY use, keepassdroid for android,
sync to owncloud, voila.
If you are extra concerned with security after storing your file remotely, you can have it use an addtional external keyfile in addition to the which you manually copy to 'authorize' devices
My favorite thing about it is that it uses standard tools I understand, and I can back it up and version it with git.
I recommend website-based password managers to my non-technical friends because they're easiest to use and therefore most likely to actually BE used, and the security vulnerabilities noted in the article are very small compared to not using a password manager at all.
The DOD defines software commerce as anything available to the public and used for any non-government purposes.
So to take your comment one step further, for some organizations, the definition of commercial also has nothing to do with whether you sell it or give it away for free, even though many people reasonably assume commerce==sales.
I've been working on the marketing a bit, and the sense I get in this space is that, like home security, password security is a series of trade-offs. One size doesn't fit all; different situations require different needs, and everyone tries to balance the safety they want to feel with convenience that they desire.
So, in our case, there are a couple of good options. You could operate on a hosted service and get the cloud-based benefits without needing to worry about infrastructure or updates, or you could self-host and trade a bit of hassle in exchange for trusting the host and verifying that the updates will do what they say they're going to do.
1Password v6 for Windows doesn't work with local vaults, it requires 1password.com
Enpass doesn't seem to support multiple vaults at all though...
However, on my Surface Pro 4 I use Edge, because it supposedly uses less power than Chrome.
If I've understood the 1Password forums correctly, the Edge integration that they are working on will only be in the subscription version. Those of us staying on 4 will be stuck with manually looking up passwords in 1Password.
Apparently someone commented below that is a documented "feature". Wow.
This is just fear mongering.
Boo hoo. Did I say it's a bug? I said it's a security issue. It's also an exceptionally stupid thing to have as standard behavior without warning. It demonstrates poor priorities and ideas about safety on the part of LastPass.
I would prefer a tool that works for teams if anyone has suggestions.
I care about how my team manages and shares their passwords. Looking for something that works across devices, and where I can share access but not necessarily share the actual passwords if I can avoid it. I really like LastPass, it's a shame about some of their issues.
Disclosure: happy user of pass, but haven't tried encrypting to multiple identities.
Perhaps this is a case where a feature that makes some sense in some cases was added, the problem is, outside that scope it's a really bad idea. But then someone said "We'll make it optional..." and the rest was history?
What would I do? I'd probably set up a second Chrome user and the LP for that user/browser would be auth creds for only stuff I'd need offline.
That would allow the main LP vault to have it disabled. This mitigates exposure.
Windows had local vault, I used the local vault version synced via dropbox for years.
(You can no longer use other clouds than their own...?)
Sounds like there's something about to blow?
> "I know about some security flaws (or behind-the-scenes issues with the dev teams) in other products, but I can't reveal them publicly because of NDAs, etc"
But there is also:
> "I know enough to recommend this product, but I don't know enough about the other products -- not necessarily because I lack the skill, but because I haven't spent the time -- to endorse/recommend them."
I don't mind a recurring fee, its just that I want a native (cloud-free) password manager.
It's crazy that it isn't clear.
But Steve Thomas, who I also respect, has a lot of specific bad things to say about it.
I don't think it will destroy you. But it is not my first choice.
> there's currently no other commercial password manager that I recommend.
> I'm sorry I can't go into more detail than that.
Hmm. OK. Well. How about this?
Without getting into specific products, can you list the top 10 things a good password manager must do, offer or implement in order to secure the recommendation of someone doing research in the field?
Edit: Here's the link to buy the standalone license  which is hard to find on the site now.
In a post from the founder one week ago  he said, "We know that not everyone is ready to make the jump yet, and as such, we will continue to support customers who are managing their own standalone vaults. 1Password 6 and even 1Password 7 will continue to support standalone vaults."
I love 1Password, but I hate their move towards being a service. There are alternatives that, while possibly not as good/polished, will allow me to continue to manage the password storage the way that I currently do and will continue to work, as is, for as long as I choose to use the software. Using them is a compromise I can make. Having a subscription password manager is not a compromise I can make.
I'd even encourage it, I'd like AgileBits to be a long term viable business.
If you want to edit entries or delete you have to use 4.x, which did not seem to support OTP.
They have made no commitment for bringing windows support for local vaults to feature parity with the mac client.
1Password 6 for Windows has been out for a year, and it still doesn't support local vaults. I'm going to consider my own and others skepticism of their commitment to local vaults completely valid.
Maybe time for an open source password manager?
- both products will continue to be supported
- your master password doesn't sync to their cloud
- your vault doesn't sync to their cloud unless you're using the subscription version and when it does sync, it's encrypted
At which point I will migrate away. I love the apps (use it on MacOS and iOS), but local-only storage and non-cloud sync are my hard requirements. I'm willing to pay a monthly rent, but will not 'cloudify' my passwords.
For a lot of people here, not remotely storing the vault is such a core foundational feature.
Saying something like "we will never force users into cloud storage and sync" when talking about a product like this just isn't that hard, unless that's exactly what you plan to do. Many software vendors have corrected misperceptions when changes seem to point in a direction some users don't want to follow.
This is not a case of misperception. The way they've talked about this make it quite plain that's where they want to go, and the careful phrasing ("at this time", "yet") makes it obvious that they intend to.
The killer feature of 1Password (on Android at least) is that it comes up as a keyboard and can type long passwords into any apps. That seems like exactly the sort of fussy integration that would be really hard to build and maintain in something without commercial backing.
It was only by trying to activate an additional family account did I discover the change in the business plan.
edit: I thought it was, but not sure.
Yes, this is correct. So if you want to share items or share a vault with a family member, you are obligated to store and sync with 1Password servers.
They now just recommend using their 1password.com service for sharing.
On windows there's some bug with a qt library they're using that, of all things, messes up network connectivity. It does polling of the network interfaces every 30 seconds (I believe) which causes traffic to completely stop for a couple of seconds.
On Android at least, it is EXTREMELY slow. Search works about 10% of the time, and the other 90% of the time you have to kill the app and relaunch it.
I work on a Qt powered project and we had the same bug
I have it on all my Macs, my iPad and iPhone and sync via Dropbox has been flawless so far.
Additionally, managing your own password vault is a lot like managing your own email server. There's advantages but I feel that the disadvantages are substantial. For one, the likelihood that you, one person, are going to do a better job of securing your stuff than a dedicated team is optimistic at best. Keeping your password vault safe is literally this companies full time gig and they have entire teams dedicated to it. Do I think they are infallible? Of course not. I'm not an idiot. But I think they are going to do a better job than me at keeping my stuff safe. I happily will pay for that every month.
The authors point about the 1p web portal is a good one. I don't use it out of similar concerns. Besides that, I really could not be happier with 1p as a password management solution. They have a good track record (no hacks that I am aware of) and I want the company I trust with literally the keys to my kingdom to be profitable and motivated to keep improving.
As someone who actually does both, this is IMHO backwards. My "password vault" is a GPG file I open in emacs and cut and paste from. It's trivially copied and maintained, extends cleanly to "non-password" secret info (e.g. credit cards, my kids' SSNs), involves no third party systems beyond the operation of the software, is trivially backed up via straightforward file copies that I do all the time anyway, and just in general works better than the rather complicated ecosystem of commercial offerings.
Works poorly in a phone, though.
It's hard enough to convince people not to use the same e-mail and password combo, and instead use something like 1password or last pass, making them use your proposed "solution" would be a massive step back.
Why can't the existing solutions in the market retain that triviality when translating to the consumer? Why must we be inflicted with bad crypto, cloudification, pervasive over-integration, lack of just-edit-the-text extensibility, etc...?
The 1Password workflow on iOS is more similar to what you describe because there is no browser integration, and I strongly dislike the experience. I often will abort doing things on mobile so I don't have to bother app switching and copy pasting.
I'd switch from Lastpass, if Apple made it easier to autofill and autogenerate passwords and added support for sharing / teams.
Or are you sharing one master password among multiple employees?
Create as many or few of these as you need accordingly.
1. Money, and
2. Significantly reducing complexity and maintenance burden. Supporting cloud-only vaults is a lot simpler than also supporting local vaults plus multiple different third-party sync mechanisms.
Most negative comments here imply that 1password severely compromised (a), to the point of making it useless, in exchange for incremental-to-zero gains in (b). For most people here, using a third-party sync service is probably more convenient than avoiding whatever mass-market-cloud-thing 1password is trying to move everyone to.
(I haven't used 1password, but am planning to switch to some other password manager, and this article just knocked 1p off my list of candidates).
Using 1Password's service is actually far more convenient. It Just Works™, whereas other solutions like Dropbox are prone to creating conflicts.
TBH I don't know why anyone who was using a third-party sync service like Dropbox would dislike the 1Password sync service (beyond the fact that it's subscription pricing instead of a one-time license fee). It's only the small subset of users who used Wi-Fi sync that seem to have a legitimate complaint here.
> this article just knocked 1p off my list of candidates
Why? Unless you were planning on using Wi-Fi sync, then you shouldn't have a complaint. Tim Bray makes a lot of noise about web sites being insecure, but you don't need to use the web interface for 1Password (well, until today you needed to use it to create new vaults, but 1Password 6.8 can now create cloud vaults directly in the app). And his comment about if you use Dropbox all they have are the encrypted password file applies just as well to AgileBits, because you need the combination of your secret key + account password to decrypt anything, and at least the secret key (and maybe the account password too, not sure) is never sent to AgileBits.
If you're interested, they also have a white paper on their security, which you can find linked at the bottom of https://1password.com/security/.
Given that vaults contain secrets, and data shared with third parties is not secret in any legally compelling way, that effectively neuters the product.
The data isn't shared with AgileBits. They only have the encrypted vaults, they don't have the keys to open them. So it's no more shared with a third party than using Dropbox to sync a local vault is shared with a third party.
>Why is AgileBits doing this? · For the same reason that Adobe has been pressuring its customers, for years now, to start subscribing to its product, rather than buying each successive version of each app. A subscription business is much nicer to operate than one where you have to go out and re-convince people to re-buy your software.
It is the part (common to many other software vendors) where they stress the "I am doing this for your own good" that irks me.
You want to change your business model? Fine.
Do you believe that this new one is better? Fine.
Do you want to convince me that you are changing the "old" model (which BTW you used until a nanosecond ago) becasue it is better for me? Hmmm.
But bugs and vulnerabilities?
On a years old, widely tested and used "static" (or almost "static" ) product?
How many possible ones they are introducing by completely changing the tool to be on the "cloud"?
* I have no problem with subscription pricing, software that is maintained needs to be sold in a subscription model, period. Anyone who thinks otherwise is deceiving themselves.
Give me native apps, charge me in a subscription model, don't force me into a web site version, and all will be fine.
When I sync with iCloud, Apple can't read my vault--even though it's on their servers, it's strongly encrypted with my passphrase, and the encryption/decryption happens on my devices.
When I sync with Dropbox, Dropbox can't read my vault--even though it's on their servers, it's strongly encrypted with my passphrase, and the encryption/decryption happens on my devices.
When I sync with AgileBit's own cloud... doesn't the sentence go exactly the same way? Quoting from their own current web page: "Every time you use 1Password, your data is encrypted before a single byte ever leaves your devices."
So even if the vault is on AgileBits' own servers, isn't it _no more and no less secure_ than the third-party syncing solutions they offer? Maybe that's not the case, and things actually function differently--but I haven't seen anyone describe why that would be the case. Again, maybe I'm just missing it. But I keep missing it. And it's not in Tim Bray's article, either. He's fine with putting it on somebody else's server if that server is run by Dropbox, but not if it's run by the company that he's trusting to encrypt it against people hacking Dropbox? How is this is materially different than using iCloud, Dropbox, or any other solution that puts a copy of my vault on someone else's servers for syncing purposes?
If the real argument is that there should always be a way to use a password manager with _no_ cloud-based syncing solution, I'm on board with that; it'd be a requirement for some businesses. But that doesn't seem to be the argument that's being made. And if the real argument is that you don't like subscription pricing models, that's fine. I don't like them, either. But that's not an argument about security--it's an argument about pricing models.
Compare that with the app. Sure it has an updater, but you can use it offline. Don't trust it in day-to-day affairs? Block network access. You can reliably not trust it, and trust that it hasn't exposed your password behind your back (minus on-disk, but that's a risk either way, and it's more audit-able / third parties can build against the format to verify it independently).
Threat models aren't the same person-to-person - this probably won't happen to you (the grandparent), but embedded journalists / people trying to overthrow a corrupt regime depend on this stuff to literally keep them alive.
Another fairly common possibility, and one that affects damn near everybody: they can get hacked and have their source code modified. This happens with some regularity, and it can affect apps too: https://www.macrumors.com/2017/05/07/handbrake-app-security-... but in a browser this happens silently and unpreventably. Apps don't (usually) update invisibly just because you launched them.
1. Accessing 1password.com's from a browser is less secure than using an app. You can choose never to log in but it makes it harder to recommend 1Password to journalists, political dissenters, etc. The most paranoid people need a local vault option.
2. The 1password.com can change to work differently from Dropbox at any time. 1Password for teams already allows recovery without your master password. They can add this to the normal subscription at any time.
It's true that you still have to trust the software vendor with your data -- that they won't just send themselves your secrets in the clear -- but I think the secrets are safer if the software isn't supposed to send _anything_ to the vendor than if you have to rely on what it does send being properly secured.
The browser plugin requires the machine you're on to have the 1Password app running in the background, which is how it gets its data from the local (and synced) vault. But there is no 1Password ChromeOS app (and I don't think it's really even possible for there to be something like that in ChromeOS), so the browser plugin does not work in Chrome on ChromeOS devices.
A while back, I think the 1Password synced vault files would also have an HTML file you could load up in a browser, which would then communicate locally with the encrypted vault to gain access to your passwords, which was a workaround on ChromeOS. I'm not sure of the security implications of that process, but it isn't supported anymore.
I really like the locally synced vault with browser plugin functionality, but the fact that there isn't a solution on ChromeOS has been a sticking point for me. I've gone the route of having Google store 1Password generated passwords via Chrome's password features, for sites that I regularly access via ChromeOS, which works, but feels excessive.
It is possible, but it is being deprecated. Signal uses it currently, so it is viable to run a 'heavier' app.
Only works because you run the Android app on your Chromebook, not supported everywhere.
Plus, it's true that you end up storing other sensible things that are not passwords, such as API or recovery keys, because it's acts like a vault.
I think this is one aspect that gets often overlooked. Keepass especially is pretty flexible for storing all sorts of small things that you feel like needing extra security and want to carry with you. Any entry in Keepass can have arbitrary key-value pairs in addition to the common fields, and if that is not enough you can also embed/attach files into the entry. For Windows especially Keepass also can store ssh-keys and function as half-decent ssh-agent.
The device can be backed up, and the cards can be backed up too (since unfortunately it's not doing the crypto on the card, the card is just a verifiable pin-protected way to store the AES key) and it's an obscure enough looking device that it's not yet an easy theft target.
I'm not affiliated with them, it's just I never see them on HN compared to mainstream applications like LastPass, 1Pass, OneLogin and such.. and I think their services are better. Plus their support is great.
On the other hand, if everybody starts using it maybe it'll become a bigger target for hackers. so don't tell everyone :)
 Words mean things. They are dealing with encrypting passwords, after all, so I hope they're truthfully representing the technology behind their system:
My money's on some corporate bullshit, however, for example:
Firefox Sync has a similar property; everything is client-side encrypted.
Isn't the real problem auto-updating code with access to a network? 1password.com is certainly another vector that fits this description, but if you don't trust AgileBits to manage 1password.com securely, why would you trust them to manage the app on your machine securely? Or the auto-updating Chrome plugin?
I'm not denying that there's more surface area by creating a login, but I think it's a false dichotomy to say that the app is "offline" and the website is "online". They both have network access, and if AgileBits or a random hacker can change the app's code, they'll do that. That change will be mindlessly delivered to your computer, and the bad guys will have all your passwords.
At least in theory you can sandbox an app so that it does not have (unlimited) access to the network.
Authentication is not done by sending them your encryption password, but instead the derivation of an SRP static secret (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Remote_Password_protoco...) from your password (PBKDF, XOR'd with HKDF of the entropy-boosting pepper that they call the "Secret Key"), and performing a session key exchange handshake, basically like a (non-ephemeral) Diffie Hellman. They then encrypt all future communications (inside of TLS) with the transient session key.
This gets you three things in one swoop:
- Authentication of user
- Authentication of the server (if the remote server doesn't have the stored RSA counterpart of your derived SRP static secret, the exchange can't complete)
- An additional encrypted tunnel independent of TLS, so transport security isn't reliant solely on TLS (Cloudbleed, etc). (The contents being moved around are encrypted yet again)
- User doesn't have to remember a separate password.
- The password and pepper never touch the network, only (non-reversible) session tokens do.
- Having access to traffic inside of TLS (corporate or malicious TLS endpoint interception, for example) still gets you nothing.
There are valid criticisms of 1Password, but you're literally criticizing them for something they've gone out of the way explicitly spent engineering hours solving in a way that not many services have even bothered thinking about.
If you have gone through the process of being charitable-first, instead of dismissive-first, then you would notice that they have explicitly spent engineering hours on this exact problem by using an SRP-based session key exchange for mutual authentication (and additional session encryption, in addition to TLS).  
It's not easy to engineer for both security and usability, so I especially appreciate it when someone spends the time to accomplish both.
I'm not mad at the subscription. I'd pay them the few bucks a month happily for what is an excellent application cross-platform. I AM mad at the forced cloud sync.
My current plan is to keep using 1PW 4 on Windows as long as possible and then re-evaluate when I absolutely have to. KeePass is a close alternative, but nowhere near as polished at this point.
The story of a lot of open source projects.
Anyways, there is a more stylish web UI for Keepass: https://keeweb.info/
Small things, but "polish" nonetheless.
Have used KeeWeb and it's great.
Unfortunately, it seems that many companies these days are more interested in developing services rather than deftly solving specific user problems. Whether or not this is financially sound, it's an ongoing assault on my workflow. I can't live in fear of every utility on my system pivoting to a new business model! Fundamental software needs to be stable, and there's a good reason why most of our essentials (compression, video playback, web browsing, etc.) are free and open source.
Going forward, I hope we discover more ways to collectively fund open source software projects, large and small, because everything else is just an IOU for another future shakeup.
EDIT: Found: https://support.1password.com/sync-with-dropbox/
How could that possibly happen? Local vaults can't just silently turn into cloud vaults, and you need a subscription license to use cloud vaults anyway.
Why not, all they'd have to do is copy the local vault to their cloud service and you'd never notice until you discover that the local file you're syncing somewhere else no longer contains your new passwords.
I'm not saying they've done this, but they could.
I don't understand why you're doing this though, unless you're trying to intentionally create FUD around 1Password.
Their terms of service appears to specifically allow this:
You agree to grant AgileBits, Inc. a license to store, retrieve, backup, restore, and otherwise copy Your Data so that we may provide you with the Service.
That way, your password manager would show a "login" button on the browser's toolbar when you visited any page in a site, you'd click it, and you'd be logged in (or possibly be asked for a two-factor code or be redirected to a two-factor page) immediately and certainly.
Is there anyone here who's working on a password manager who'd like to develop this with me? I've been wanting to write a spec and Django/Python implementation of it.
No, No. We shouldn't send credentials to anywhere. We should be using things like client certs or SRP. We need to solve the UI and UX problems and actually create better systems, not keep patching over the same broken system.
Also, "marginal improvement that many people might use, or a perfect system that nobody will?" is a false dichotomy. I'm saying we should make better systems (not perfect ones) easier to use.
Me neither, that's why I proposed a system that will allow your password manager to log you in automatically with a single click instead, with a trivial change to the server (a file with some information).
> I'm saying we should make better systems (not perfect ones) easier to use.
Having seen how little adoption Persona, which was pretty much perfect, got, I don't think the problem is usability.
The problem, I think, is that every site wants to own the web, and doesn't want to give up anything, let alone login. Facebook and Twitter and Google all want to be the auth providers to the net, but then you have to trust them in a much more elevated way than you should, and their motives are more around building a profile of you and where you go on the net than being a secure auth provider. If Facebook started supporting U2F (they may, I don't know), Yubikey sales would explode tomorrow and the web may be a safer place, who knows.
But my biggest fear that I have is; if my laptop was ever pwned in some way, due to some noval 0-day etc - is that everything stored in 1Password could be compromised. But more importantly - the hackers would have an address book of banks, servers, databases etc that I have access to.
I dont know if there is a solution - but I feel it is like putting all your eggs in one basket.