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Long time user of both bazaar and git here.

> To be fair git is junk;

git's UI could certainly benefit from some simplification ; this doesn't make git junk, especially considering that it's incredibly fast and reliable.

> it's just the standard so everyone has mostly learned it and it gets the job done, but at least Mercurial is better. Probably bzr too.

Bazaar and git actually have lots in common, they both have the advantages of DVCS (which seem to be often confused with "the advantages of git") (like, say, "rename"?)

Here are the main differences I noticed:

Bazaar is definitely slower, but you need an big-open-source-sized repo before noticing the difference.

Bazaar doesn't have "rebase" by default, but you can install it as a plugin and it works.

Bazaar has an optional "automatic push after each commit", which encourages linear history, and which I find to be more appropriate 90% of the time in a small experimented team (small and frequent commits instead of feature-branches).

Bazaar's UI uses revision numbers instead of commit hashes, this makes lots of things easier, like knowing which of two commits came first, telling a commit number to your coworkers, or bisecting without requiring the support from the VCS ( git-bisect ).

Bazaars allows remotely fetching one single revision from a repo, without requiring to download the whole history. You can't do this with git. The best I found was to loop "git fetch --depth N" with an increasing value of N until the "git checkout <commit_number>" succeeds. This is a pain, especially when working with submodules.

Bazaar doesn't have an index (aka "staging area"), and by default, "bzr commit" will commit all the local modifications. Considering that partial commits are dangerous (test suites generally don't track what's in the index, creating a mismatch between "what was tested" and "what's being pushed"), this is a welcomed simplification (of course, you can "git stash/bzr shelve" if needed).

Bazaar doesn't make a difference between a branch, a repo, and a working copy. All of these are repositories (potentially sharing ancestors) accessible through an URL. So there's no need for "remotes", you directly push/pull to/from an URL (no, you don't have to re-specify it each time).

I hope no git user was harmed during the reading of this post :-)




If by "test suites" you mean automatic testing, then I probably don't agree.

The flow goes like this for me:

- Make small amount of new code backed by tests in a feature branch

- Run some tests locally (not all)

- Push to the feature branch

- CI will run all the tests

- If a test fails, I get a notification about it in my IDE and can fix it immediately

I personally enjoy having staging area (and IDE supported local stash) that help me keep small amount of difference to the origin for development purposes.


> Bazaar doesn't have an index (aka "staging area"), and by default, "bzr commit" will commit all the local modifications.

Mercurial works this way too. I strongly prefer Mercurial to git, but I like partial commits and the staging area is one of the few things about git I wish Mercurial had.


> Bazaars allows remotely fetching one single revision from a repo, without requiring to download the whole history. You can't do this with git. The best I found was to loop "git fetch --depth N" with an increasing value of N until the "git checkout <commit_number>" succeeds. This is a pain, especially when working with submodules.

There is also `git clone --depth 1` but you have to use ssh+git protocol


I don't want HEAD, I want a specific commit. How do I specify this from a "git clone" command line, as you're suggesting?


I don't think that's possible. You'd have to `git init`, `git remote add ...`, `git fetch --depth 1 MYREMOTE MYCOMMIT`.

If this is a frequent case for you, you could easily add an alias for this.


$ git init

Initialized empty Git repository in /tmp/phobos/.git/

$ git remote add origin https://github.com/dlang/phobos.git

$ git fetch --depth=1 origin 6e5cdacfa6ac018c6ef42aa9679893676f293f21

error: no such remote ref 6e5cdacfa6ac018c6ef42aa9679893676f293f21

However, the commit exists:

$ git fetch --depth=1000

[... a long time after ...]

$ git checkout 6e5cdacfa6ac018c6ef42aa9679893676f293f21

Note: checking out '6e5cdacfa6ac018c6ef42aa9679893676f293f21'.

[...]

HEAD is now at 6e5cdacf... phobos 0.2


This looks like github configuration. My (probably newer) git tells me:

    $ git fetch --depth=1 origin 6e5cdacfa6ac018c6ef42aa9679893676f293f21
    error: Server does not allow request for unadvertised object 6e5cdacfa6ac018c6ef42aa9679893676f293f21
Note that this works fine and has the same effect:

   $ git fetch --depth=1 origin phobos-0.2
If you want the first command to work, you will probably have to host somewhere other than github.


> This looks like github configuration

This also doesn't work on gitlab.

$ git clone -q --depth=10 https://gitlab.com/fdroid/fdroidclient.git

$ cd fdroidclient

$ git fetch --depth=1 origin 5d2c2bc6e636e40eee80c59d1de6c1eff0ba4472

error: no such remote ref 5d2c2bc6e636e40eee80c59d1de6c1eff0ba4472

$ git fetch -q --depth=200

$ git checkout 5d2c2bc6e636e40eee80c59d1de6c1eff0ba4472

Note: checking out '5d2c2bc6e636e40eee80c59d1de6c1eff0ba4472'.

[...]

HEAD is now at 5d2c2bc... Merge branch 'fix-npe-verifying-perms' into 'master'

Please be honest: did you see it work at least once?

> If you want the first command to work, you will probably have to host somewhere other than github

Please keep in mind that those are generally third party projects. Convincing all the maintainers to move away from github is going to be hard.

It seems we're back to square one.


> Please be honest: did you see it work at least once?

No, I never tried this before. I was just guessing based on the client error message. But a quick look in the source reveals that this is indeed a server setting that defaults to false:

https://git-scm.com/docs/git-config#git-config-uploadpackall...

If fetching non-tagged, non-branchhead commits is actually a frequent use case for you, you could ask github whether they might change their config. You are not the first person to want this: https://github.com/isaacs/github/issues/436

> It seems we're back to square one.

Almost :). You said:

> Bazaars allows remotely fetching one single revision from a repo, without requiring to download the whole history. You can't do this with git.

As it turns out that is not correct – git can absolutely do that. But the two biggest hosters don't allow it.


Extract from the pages you linked:

"However, note that calculating object reachability is computationally expensive. Defaults to false."

"it is off by default and generally advised against on performance reasons."

> > Bazaars allows remotely fetching one single revision from a repo, without requiring to download the whole history. You can't do this with git. > As it turns out that is not correct – git can absolutely do that. But the two biggest hosters don't allow it.

I stand corrected, I should have written instead: "git designs makes this operation so expensive that git disables it by default, which means you can't use it with github and gitlab, and probably the vast majority of git servers in the world, making it unusable in practice".

> you could ask github whether they might change their config.

Yeah, right.


Regarding your fetch issue: you can just specify the Sha/tag/Branch head that you want to fetch




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