I turned the interest in the app into my first piece of commercial software which, coming from an open source and free software background, was actually pretty daunting. I timidly started charging five bucks in the pre-App Store days, before eventually raising the price over time to make it more sustainable.
I had ups and downs, launched a second app (Meerkat, for SSH tunneling), but eventually realized I wasn't really an indie product person as much as I was a people and services one, so I ended up doing about 80% consulting and 20% Mac software, including Pukka.
I eventually ended up folding up shop after I went to work for Mapbox full-time in 2011.
This is something Maciej even wrote about.
So I'll always have a spot in my heart for Delicious, and this seems a fitting and appropriate end. I'm so glad its content will remain available in perpetuity.
Also, did you just not enjoy working on a product as much as consulting work, or was it simply not as lucrative/sustainable/reliable?
Basically, I thought I'd never work again for someone else. That was over six years ago. Mapbox has grown from about 15 to over 220 people now. Somehow I knew it was different and it was just compelling enough — plus I had a "try before you buy" experience through contracting that was just too good to pass up.
On the balance, I definitely enjoyed the software (and still do), but especially working at home on my own, I enjoyed the interaction with people (usually by email or phone, sometimes in person) and the constant variety and problem-solving nature of it. And not just technical problems, but organizational and strategic problems, too.
I think it could have been as lucrative, but at least in the Mac software space (and probably the iOS one more so), it had a certain element of "grind" to it, with product marketing and website presentation, working PR contacts and releases, and constantly getting things in front of influential people. As much as I enjoyed that some of the time, I didn't want to do as much as it would have required to make apps the lion's share of my income.
Site has been bounced around a bit since.
"The site was founded by Joshua Schachter and Peter Gadjokov in 2003 and acquired by Yahoo in 2005. By the end of 2008, the service claimed more than 5.3 million users and 180 million unique bookmarked URLs. Yahoo sold Delicious to AVOS Systems in April 2011, and the site relaunched in a "back to beta" state on September 27 that year. In May 2014, AVOS sold the site to Science Inc. In January 2016 Delicious Media, a new alliance, reported it had assumed control of the service."
Pocket is great for text, but only for that. Pinboard is cool and safe but is not for me. I still use google to find things that I have saved before, since 96, I have countless files called Temp on bookmarkers for things that I need organize, things saved on twitter, Medium, Reddit, Pinterest, Instagram, Google Keep, HN, Evernote and on mobile, there are tons of screenshots of things that I could use later. And that is for things that I already have seen, but, unfortunately, nothing of this is used to refine my experience in discovery new things that I could, potentially, like to see.
I really hope that more people attempt to compete with Pinboard.
I'm one of the earliest users of Delicious who recently built a modern bookmarking platform. It's called Kozmos (https://getkozmos.com). It's a competitor to Pinboard, and its difference is simplifying bookmarking into one heart button, I mean you don't need to fill forms to bookmark a page anymore. It has an advanced search engine that makes you find whatever you're looking for.
I self-funded this project and worked on it past three months. If you are curious about how it looks, you can see this blog post; https://medium.com/@azerbike/introducing-kozmos-a-new-bookma...
My vision for this project is to not just build a bookmarking platform, to innovate further based on bookmarking.
I don't have that feature in Kozmos but will keep it in my mind.
I imagine pinboard supports this, but when I looked at it something stopped me from pulling the trigger, despite how desperate I am for this type of service.
For tagging, it has a different approach. It has tags behind the scenes; reads the tags from the bookmarked page, and adds also additional tags such as the type of content.
I used Pinboard a couple of years ago but stopped using it in favor of Pocket (I can't seem to recollect the exact reason why). Pocket is great for things that I want to save for later. I have cached copies of webpages in my Pocket that are no longer online, so that is pretty neat.
Lately I've noticed that Pocket has become like a cold storage for me. I rarely ever go back to reading the bookmarks from it. I recently found a bookmarklet  on PH that works like Pocket but sends the bookmarks to your email instead of sending it another app. It has been working pretty well for me so far. I've been using it to send myself an email for stuff that I want to read in the near future (within the next couple of days or so) and use Pocket for saving links that I might need at some later date.
But discoverability is still an issue, I am yet to find a decent solution that can help me find new things based on my interests.
I use Wallabag, an open source alternative to Pocket. It generates an RSS feed which Calibre can read, download, and send to the e-reader. Pocket should do the same thing. Once a week or so I go through and mark articles as read, then open up Calibre to re-download the fresh feed.
One weird trick (heh) that has become really useful is reversing the RSS feed. So I receive two 'e-books' on my Kindle, one with new articles and one with old articles. This satisfies me, since I'm often wanting to read some new articles ASAP, while also working my way through the backlog.
Calibre lets you script the feed processing in Python. With Wallabag the feed is also paginated, so you could accomplish nearly the same thing by selecting a higher page number. Not sure if Pocket does that.
I was looking for a pocket replacement due to privacy concerns and an ever growing annoyance with ads. Wallabag has a Pocket importer and the rss feeds are a really nice touch! I even put up a parser on my website to show people my starred articles: http://desandoval.net/i-am
I'll try the ebook trick. That is a really good idea! I was looking for a reason to pull out my old B&N Nook again ;)
I looked for something different and used OneNote to store complete web-pages in the cloud. Link rot was gone and organizing and searching was awesome. Until my OneNote file on OneDrive reached 8GB and performance and syncing took a nosedive.
And not so long ago I found ScrapBook for Firefox . Couldn't be happier! Storing everything locally is awesome. Searching and organizing full pages and links is great. I can take care of backing up the data myself and can crawl the pages on my local drive.
I just hope that firefox keeps those plugins running, otherwise I'll have to find something else again...
My current favourite tool is this chrome extension(https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/save-to-google-dri...), which saves pages in mht format to google drive.
It's simple to organize. A sidebar with folders, supporting drag and drop.
It stores the source 'as is' with html, css, images and optionally js. This simplifies tooling and scraping locally. Afaik, MHT is not yet fully supported on all browsers.
I can go offline and look at stored pages. This is very important for me because I have a long commute by train each day.
Since OneNote I avoid cloud storage and syncing when possible. After GB's of Data, syncing starts to be a nightmare. But, I could start syncing with dropbox, rsync or something else. And I'm free to choose. Fortunately I don't need collaboration features.
In my opinion a simple, local solution beats everything else. Actually, a feature like this should be built into the browser natively. And it's not far off from the current state: It is simply a bookmark sidebar which also supports save-page. It's kinda sad that, after so many years, browser still make it hard to store and watch content offline. The current save-page functions just don't cut it.
The rest of the services mentioned in this thread? Who knows?
I use browser bookmarks for pages I visit often or intend to return to fairly soon. I use Pinboard for long-term archival where link rot is a real concern.
Anyway, our thing is https://larder.io. Our angle is that we'll sync your github starred repos as bookmarks along with everything else you save.
A filesystem is a CRUD (or BREAD) tool, based on standard metadata and interfaces. Part of that is making available extra and user-useful capabilities.
Another part of the problem is that the current concept of a browser, which lacks the idea of downloading-and-storing, on an accessible and persistent basis, online content, and emphasises application and interactive functions over document and reference capabilities, is ... something of a historical accident.
Why make use of some remote pinboarding or bookmarking feature if you've got a common URL referencing system, and the ability to capture, transform, rate/rank, search, and organise into a workflow, project, or support context the information you're accessing via the Web.
And to do that by way of tools which treat this as information-on-disk, either known and extant utilities, or extensions / wrappers / enhancements of these. Most specifically, by unwrapping online content from the browser context specifically.
This goes deep into principles of application, information, and interface design and use. I'm calling the extant model a dead duck.
I also disagree that the app-ification was an historical accident; I think it's the direct result of economical forces, and I'm not convinced that an alternative system could become popular while avoiding it.
You might want to look through the inspirations part of the doc to see what's prompted this. I've also turned up a number of similar projects after having started writing that essay.
* The /proc and /sys filesystems on Linux
* The /net virtual filesystem on many Solaris systems, generally tying to an NFS network via automount.
* Various Plan 9 elements, including /webfs
* The Midnight Commander virtual filesystems, including remote access over ssh.
* Tools for on-demand and responsive media response. Tracking an element down to its source, and requesting, say, PDF or ePub rather than HTML might automatically provide those. The idea of being able to run, say, 'ls' on an HTML target and have it return a list of links rather than its full content.
* Unix mail, mailx, mutt, and especially mh, which provides a shell-based perspective to email management.
* Numerous document markup and preparation systems.
* Squid, dansguardian, Tor, and other Web proxy tools.
* Libraries and catalogs, generally.
* The Internet Archive.
* HTML doc "reader-mode" tools: Readability, Pocket, Instapaper, Outline.
Again: wiring much of this into the FS layer, abstracting away the browser, treating doc requests as queues, splitting up docs, media, apps, and commerce, integrating into the user's workflow rather than the publishers.
If it's not for you, that's fine. But that's where I'm coming from.
I'd like to share a project I've been working on, https://slushi.es
Whatever you may think about delicious past/present, the brand name alone should be worth more than that. Than you add in the domain, the SEO juice that must still remain w/ a ton of delicious URLs, the free marketing that he's generated purely from this acquisition, and I could probably think of 5 other immediate wins that would justify that price.
If seriously just $35K, bravo!
When Delicious forgot to update the browser plugins I looked for a free version, but nothing was as good (and probably as future proof) as Pinboard and it's some of the best $9 (if I remember) deals I've made.
The fact that it's been through like four companies at this point and none felt they could make it valuable tells you a lot.
And I'm sure, Pinboard has a super low run rate . So any additional revenue is likely straight to the bottom line.
Which means, he paid $35K for an immediate 500K new visits(?) to his business today? Plus the continual link and SEO juice he'll get from all future searches that people do for bookmarking service.
And just to note: searched "bookmarking service" . Top link from 2017 points to Delicious still ( no Pinboard ). Next 2 contain links to Delicious, hell even one that is talking about the death of Google's bookmarking service references Delicious.
What. A. Steal.
And he only needs a little over 3,000 people to sign up to Pinboard to make it back. Assuming new visits of 500k, he only needs a conversion rate of 0.6% to do that.
For SEO purposes they certainly do. The domain itself is worth $35k easy to people who know how to take advantage of that age.
This is just the most fantastic thing I've read today and probably will be all week. Month, for that matter.
I also love his comment "I am the greatest!"
As a customer, yes, yes you are.
I've used it for 7.5 years with 22k+ bookmarks.
I stopped using it last year because of the downtimes as well.
> I was frustrated that the Delicious export went away
Too much load on their servers.
Instead of transferring, I simply made a simple bookmarker with similar functionality (allows importing) that I could self-host.
See https://github.com/dyu/bookmarks/ if interested.
Edited: export comment
Fixing it seems to be on pinboard priority : https://twitter.com/Pinboard/status/870334621648654336 nice !
I can see several opportunities:
WTF? Is that a challenge? Expect me!
It's basically remained unchanged since, with the exception of removing site previews a bit back for optimization purposes.
Always meant to rewrite & open source it, maybe now's the time...
I signed up for an archival Pinboard account last weekend though, so maybe it was my $25 that put it over the top ;)
Hosting costs, OTOH...
Delicious vs Pinboard was basically Digg vs Reddit.
The one who focused on the basic core usecase over flashy features and modern/trendy design won.
Pinboard is great, but it never competed against Delicious. In fact it came out long timer after people stopped using Delicious.
It got a HUGE boost when the announcement of Delicious' sunsetting came out.
My favourite line comes from the tweet storm (http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2010/12/the-small-exodus-from-...):
> "there are worse things than being DDOS'ed by people trying to give you money"
I used both products from the early days of each and this is entirely false. Whether or not Delicious continued down the social bookmarking path in it's original incarnation doesn't mean they weren't competing.
I only completely switched from Delicious after their awful 'redesign' and still having an outstanding need for a cloud-based bookmarking service when Pinboard came around. Same with Digg/Reddit. I used both but ditched Digg when they did the misguided v3 relaunch, like everyone else.
[by whom ?] as they say over in en.wikipedia ...
Don't know the numbers, but Reddit always sported a more "in" crowd, who looked down on the Digg unwashed.
slashdot, but with a better comment engine
Even so that wasn't my core point here. The analogies between
the two are still plentiful.
Digg didn't die because of Reddit's 'competition' either. Digg shot themselves in the foot while Reddit largely did nothing and won because of it.
Both Digg/Delicious made big mistakes by doing their social network era redesigns, while Pinboard and Reddit were built around simple designs and staying true to a core concept. That's the point.
Wouldn't call Delicious flashy or modern. The design is almost as brutalist as Pinboard. I don't like either.
The original Delicious interface was simple and easy to use. Not quite as minimalist as Pinboard, but nowhere near the crap they released later.
I'm sure from your POV Reddit has always been an entirely different beast, but (and at the risk of teaching my grandmother how to suck eggs) as an early user of both I saw them as have a lot of similarity, both forging a similar and exciting new future of people collectively making the web more discoverable.
I actually tried to build a product which attempted to combine the best of both: a tool for communities to organize links. I still think there is room for something like that, but countless people have tried and none have taken off, so it seem it is way harder to get something like that to catch on than it seemed in those heady days of web 2.0.
Neither Reddit nor Digg offered actual bookmarking, so if you thought they were similar to Delicious you didn't really understand the product.
I've used delicious since 2008 (~22k bookmarks) and stopped using it last year when it was sold to Delicious Media (it was becoming unreliable/unstable).
Disclosure: I started the project
Edited: added timeline
I'm not sure what the point of this comment was, but lately I've been thinking about physical vs digital hoarding and thought I would share.
Man, I love Maciej's way with words.
Been using Pinboard since the strange pricing model. It is the only "cloud" service I use, and ever since I wrote some little utilities for searching the automated backup I keep from the command line, I actually mainly use the service because there are tools for easily adding to the store from the browser and an Iphone app.
In general, Pinboard is my idea of how a successful, solid internet service business looks. Find a niche, occupy it well enough that people want to give you money, and continually make it better for the users. (That last bit is important - Google used to be good for me as a user, but they've "improved" to the point that I don't want them in my life.)
I wonder what is so wrong in delicious' backend that is so expensive to run. Maybe that's why Yahoo ditched it, for some reason it's a money pit...? Note how Maciej is explicitly saying he will never turn it back on, not even redirecting the api endpoints which should be trivial. There must be a reason for that.
(something like 2000 out of millions of accounts would pay that off in a year or 2)
(Assumes new owner takes over the $30,000/year hosting bill the moment the transaction completes. See Maciej's comment somewhere in the great-grandparent's thread with that number - $2500/month hosting).
Well, I'm way off. Purchase price was $35,000 USD - https://thenextweb.com/apps/2017/06/01/its-the-end-of-an-era...
This is gold and yes sir you are pretty damn great! Good job.
I've recently switched to raindrop.io, which is an excellent replacement. Bookmarking serves two purposes for me:
1) It provides a way to record sites I don't visit often, which I hope I'll be able to find easily in the future if needed.
2) It provides me with easy access to the sites I visit regularly on all devices, without restricting me to a specific browser, and with an aesthetically pleasing and intuitive UI like Speed Dial
I want the record of these two kinds of pages to live in one place, and while Delicious and Pinboard were close, I felt that they never quite met that need.
You will be missed.
Delicious should have become Pinterest
Flickr should have become Instagram
That way, I would have able to just use that as external memory for those tip-of-the-tongue moments.
> Do not attempt to compete with Pinboard.
: fine, not great. It's got some weird usability flaws that someone thought would be either a good idea or just good lock-in. But they're mostly avoidable.
Two thumbs up.
Keep doing what you were doing, Pinboard, do not ever buy into the argument that changed Delicious from what it was.
It's $20 million!
I am a heavy user of Diigo for it's annotation/highlighting feature for that reason. I pretty much can't read or surf online without it.
Is there any plan to add this type of feature to Pinboard? Pinboard seems much simpler and more performant and I'd love to have an alternative/backup.
> Users will have an opportunity to migrate their bookmarks to a Pinboard account, which costs $11/year.
It's also possible maciej wants to ~~do Machine Learning on the data~~, as they have "over a billion bookmarks", but that seems unlikely to me.
I'd bet the "real reason" truly was sentimental:
> Delicious ... is a fascinating piece of web history. ... I bought it in part so it wouldn’t disappear from the web.
Excuse me? "Unlikely"? Understatement of the thread.
And I wouldn't describe that sentence as a sentimental motivation, but rather an _archival_ motivation. Preserve your history or it will be lost.
> Delicious has over a billion bookmarks and is a fascinating piece of web history. […] I bought it in part so it wouldn’t disappear from the web.
Also, not wanting a billion bookmarks to vanish is a good reason. Plus I'm sure he can convert a bunch of former Delicious users over to Pinboard simply by operating the service.
I don't know anybody who stayed with it after that
(For me it's Pinboard Plus, but occasionally it fails.)
also, well played Maciej
Finally, I moved my bookmarks to TagPacker.
Awaiting the news regarding Bed Bug Registry vs booking.com
"Those who prefer to bookmark elsewhere will be able to export their data once I fix the export link, which was disabled some months ago for peformance reasons.
Please note that there is no time pressure for moving off Delicious."
Those who prefer to bookmark elsewhere will be able to export their data once I fix the export link, which was disabled some months ago for peformance reasons.
All kidding aside though they were one of the first to have a really cool domain name. It will always be del.icio.us to me.
that made me laugh! OH NOES ITS A MONORPOLY!!11
Next Story: Tarsnap promptly migrates Dropbox to FreeBSD
If Yahoo had taken del.icio.us circa 2005 and never changed a thing, Pinboard doesn't even exist. They destroyed their own userbase trying to chase markets.
Ah, and I don't give a damn about Pinboard or Google Bookmarks either.
I only use Pocket.
Wha... not sure if he's letting the success get to his head, or he is actually trying to ward off competitors. Real innovative people are motivated by challenges like this so he's gonna have to eat his hat for saying that.
Have you considered the possibility that he's using some humor to point out the fate of all the much-better-funded but now-defunct competitors that a typical HN commenter would've expected to crush Pinboard and win the market?