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> Seriously: if a TOR hidden service offers hard-core drugs or human trafficking or fake IDs, then they should be shut down.

If it were possible to do this, TOR would lose any shred of value it has for people using it to fight oppression.

Ok, let's say we put technology in place to "shut down" sites that sell fake IDs to teenagers (god forbid!).

Well now, Mr. Lawman from the U.K. or China is going to come in and say "hey, wait a minute, you can shut down websites that illegally peddle fake IDs, so you obviously have the ability to shut down websites that peddle illegal extremism (meaning falun gong, anti-government groups, etc.)." The only defense against the TOR project and its supporters being forced to do this is that it's not technically feasible.

It's really bad that this isn't manifestly obvious to someone who is apparently involved with the TOR project to a substantial degree.




> If it were possible to do this, TOR would lose any shred of value it has for people using it to fight oppression.

Most people in that field mess up their opsec sufficiently often that this is very well possible, see SilkRoad and its successors.

When it comes to the kiddyfuckers, I'm a bit torn myself when I ask myself if child pornography (and apparently people even shared videos of raped toddlers) is an excuse for hacking and exposing actually innocent TOR users. It's the classic 4chan/reddit dilemma: what kind of content justifies which measures, and when is it worth to limit the right to free speech?

For the record, I support anything done to bring child porn offenders to justice, but I also recognize that this opens dangerous doors - from the issue of "now it's an excuse for the Chinese/Russians/Iran/Saudi-Arabians to crack down on legitimate activities" to "people are actually already planting fake child-porn evidence, including in scareware/ransomware".


The thing is, a person wearing a mask is only hidden in a crowd, if the crowd of people wearing masks exist in the first place.

By removing all evil from tor, you expose the good, leaving it vulnerable. That defeats the purpose, I suppose.


Yeah, certainly removing child porn from TOR reduces the amount of background noise in traffic. But there should still be vast quantities of people using TOR for file-sharing to provide significant noise...


Why target one illegal activity and not the other? It would serve no purpose to allow some crimes to take place, but not others. I believe that organizing drug sales, small amounts as well as large, is just as horrible and can ruin just as many lives as distributing images and videos (I wonder how many are duplicates) of exploited children.


Because it's usually the drug consumer him/herself who decides what to buy and consume - and given that most of the drug sellers apparently don't cut their products with weird stuff from rat dung to lead, fentanyl or other stuff that sometimes causes dozens of ODs (fentanyl-contaminated heroin batches are well known for this, and a plague for ERs because the victims always come in a bunch) one might argue that clean, vetted drugs via TOR/Silk Road are better for society than if the users would hit the streets. Also, drugs bought on the streets directly finance the street mafia and contribute to gang violence, as well as negative reputation for the "dealer city quarters". Internet drug shopping kills off this part of the chain totally.

Child porn is just ... inexcusable no matter how you think about it. Fine, if some porn stars make themselves look young, okay, but that's consenting adult performers. Abusing Toddlers and children for porn is not just violent in itself, it literally creates wrecks.


You cannot defend one type of crime, because another type is much worse. If possible, one could argue that child pornography is less horrible than hitman services and human trafficking, given that the majority of the content shared is not new content of new victims.

Let's not try to justify serious crime, because other crime may be seen as more serious.


The point is that child pornography (and also sexual abuse of children) is viewed as evil across all societies and groups.

Human trafficking, drugs and hitmen services, however, are not - the most notable exception being the various kinds of mafia or other organized crime.


I believe that I'm in my right to buy drugs. If I were a vendor I would be proud of my job, and I would take any jail time as if it were for homosexuality in the 40s.

People ruin their lifes, some using drugs. It's true that drugs, like alcohol, may be an existential risk to the life and potential of a small quantity of people. So are casinos, fast food, extreme sports, or videogames.




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