The anti-MBP threads in HN is tiring. How many threads have we had on this? How many threads will we have on this filled with the same kind comments?
The current top comment is the same as the top comments in the previous threads. I almost think at this point people post these links and post anti-MBP comments for easy karma.
I'd rather see HN discuss something else at this point. If you don't like the new MBP don't buy it. It's fine for my programming needs. Maybe not yours, but let's discuss something else at this point on HN.
How about this: You don't upvote stories you don't like, and every person has (only) one vote to upvote what they do like to be seen and/or discussed. Incidentally, that's exactly how it already works... If you want to be the one with veto power there also is a way: You can create your own subreddit on reddit.
The problem is more the "Pro" label, which has become dated and inappropriate, than anything else.
We've come full circle to where like the SoundBlaster Pro, the "Pro" term has become so meaningless you ended up with things like the SoundBlaster Pro Gold.
Back when the first Mac Pro launched there wasn't a huge difference between their machine and the theoretical best machine. A quad core Xeon system was pretty good by the standards of the time, and if you needed more horsepower you didn't have many options.
Now you can get a workstation with 36 physical cores if you can afford it. Apple cannot possibly hope to cater to that extreme end of the market, very few vendors even try. Dell only seems to offer dual 8-core workstations, HP offers dual 18-core...if you have $12K sitting around to buy one and the patience to configure the system properly.
As the theoretical high end keeps getting higher and completely detaching from what everyday professionals need, the most demanding of that group will find more and more reasons to complain about Apple's line-up.
Laptop theoretical maximums haven't changed too much since 2006 when the Macbook Pro was first introduced. I know of many people who have 6 year old Macbook pro's and are still happy with the performance.
To me the real issue is a death by a hundred cuts because:
1. The hardware is not improving at a steady clip; nor is it simply 'the best' in any category
2. OSX hasn't seen enough improvement to continue justifying the Mac premium
3. Other manufactures have caught up as the hardware market stabilised, and Windows is tugging on developer heart strings with its Linux subsystem layer.
If Windows supports Linux in a reasonable performant way, I'd switch immediately. I'm waiting a year to see how the wind blows.
2. macOS has improved substantially over the last six years even though most of those changes haven't been earth-shattering or visible. HFS+ is finally going away, the scheduler is more battery friendly, API improvements continue that make writing apps easier. It's a mature operating system, though, and like Windows, which basically slapped on a new coat of paint and threw in a new version of DirectX, and decided to get crazy and bundle Linux support, it's hard to make exponential leaps forward. What is macOS crying out for these days?
3. Windows is still extremely hostile to developers even with the Linux subsystem. That's a massive improvement over Cygwin, but it's still a veneer on top of what's an extraordinarily ugly OS when it comes to internals. Drive letters, the Registry, entire continents of compatibility junk. If you're not writing games, you probably never write apps for Windows native. It's just not worth it.
Now it's nice that Microsoft is at least trying to give Windows some decent tools, the Linux/GNU suite is vastly better than the feeble garbage that comes with Windows, but it's still the first step in a long road towards being as POSIX friendly as a true Linux or BSD system actually is.
If you want to do non-Microsoft development, your main choices are buy a Macbook or buy another laptop and put Linux on it.
Personally I still prefer macOS to any other desktop OS out there by a very long way. It makes my life so much easier and more productive.
Although I really love that part of OsX, this is not the only reason why I prefer it to windows.
Last time I tried windows 10, it took me 2 minutes before stumbling on an icon right out of Windows Vista (or at least it really looked disjointed with the rest of the OS).
Install/Uninstall an app on Osx ? Use the same metaphor than for a file and put it in Applications or Trash. Contrast this with the clutter in windows menu ..
OsX is really far from perfect and in fact I feel it regress each year but it is still better than the competition.
Does it strike anybody as strange that an operating system is getting worse over time rather than better?
I somewhat expect it, as we've seen desktop OSes come to be influenced by mobile OSes, or worse, as we've seen desktop OSes modified to also act as mobile OSes.
Trying to combine these two very different types of usage into one product, like we've seen with recent versions of Windows and open source desktop environments (like GNOME 3), results in the worst of both worlds.
Even in the case of macOS, where there's at least some separation, the influence from the mobile side can still harm the desktop experience.
What do you think they should be doing to make it "better"? Steering an operating system is not easy.
They're rolling out their new filesystem. They're adjusting the way it can schedule things to improve battery life. Things like that may not sound profound but they're important.
That doesn't even bother me as long as things work properly.
You can accept my unqualified opinion or not as is your wont. The failings of recent releases of MacOS are well documented online if you do a search for them.
I'm not a windows fan, but you are hardly being fair.
Again, unix based system, good ux, better consistency.
Windows has also crashed a lot under me when I tried it. It was on a bootcamp partition of a mbp, I expect that a surface laptop might have better QA but I am not going to buy out to make sure.
The system also has the despicable habbit of starting updating itself while you are busy doing something else. Several of the people I know (inluding myself) had a gaming session interrupted by a windows update.
If nobody had complained, Apple probably would have waited even longer (or even discontinued) the Mac Pro.
> The anti-MBP threads in HN is tiring.
> How many threads have we had on this?
It also won't be a reason to abandon the Touch Bar because despite the vocal minority of whiners it is selling like hot cakes and more importantly it's a way Apple can differentiate its laptops from other manufacturers.
Ultimately money talks and bullshit walks.
At this point the only conclusion I can make is that that are a fair number of employees that work for the competitors of such successful companies that drive the conversation far enough along that they make the front page and get the momentum for active discussion. If it's not employees it's fanboys (and girls) of the competitors. I just discount opinions on such threads entirely and others do the same. That said, it's still entertaining to read.
I've noticed a decline over the past 3+.
Feels like the "move fast and break things" mantra has been adopted. This works for Facebook... but it doesn't for Apple.
Shipping new features seems to take precedent over fixing bugs.
Some of us just want the Apple quality back.
It's really not too much to ask.
So, the only reason why the MacBook Pro isn't first is the price? It doesn't make any sense.
I bought the Late-2016 MacBook Pro (no touchbar, of course), and it's the best laptop I've ever used by a long shot.
I wasn't happy to have to pay more than I used to (EUR 1490 vs. EUR 1199), but being a developer my machine is important, and with my hourly wage the expense is justified if I can be more productive. Thanks to the improved keyboard, I'm more productive as I can type faster and more enjoyably. I also used to have a MacBook Air, and I _love_ the HiDPI display.
I don't have a bag full of dongles, so I have no idea what that's about. I attach the laptop to an external monitor, so I have 1 adapter that I keep plugged into the HDMI cable. It's got 2 USB3 ports, HDMI, and another USB-C port. I never bring it with me or use it besides for the monitor, though.
I definitely would not want to replace my current laptop with a plastic Lenovo to save $300 (or whatever).
I guess laptopmag.com is trying to ride the MacBook bitching wave one last time to get some visitors.
I don't doubt that for some people the dongle situation isn't a problem, and I'd be happy to accept these limitations from a cheap chromebook or a tablet. But the temerity to put out a laptop with these limitations (never mind the 16GB of RAM limit since 2011) while plastering on a "Pro" label astnoshes me; IMO it really dilutes the brand, and it seems I'm not the only one.
As for the "Pro", it just means "Premium". Not "for professional software develoepers".
But if you are a professional photographer, video editor, animator, mechanical/civil/chemical engineer, or yes, a software developer, and want a truly "Pro" grade laptop, Apple doesn't make something suitable for you. Instead I'd have to recommend Dell's Professional line, eg the Precision 5520, which can be customised to have Professional things such as a security cable lock, 32GB RAM, an SSD as well as an extra HDD, and the choice between a high-resolution IGZO touch screen and a 1080p matt screen.
It also comes with more than one type of port for maximum compatibility without needing a bag full of dongles or a bulky dock. And frankly, it looks just as good, if not better, than the MacBook.
It has been a tough transition to a non-touch screen. I understand the following statement doesn't have a logical foundation...I just hate staring at the touchbar. I don't like that its there, it is never useful. TouchID on a laptop is genius. USB C, I can get use to. I can see the light at the end of the tunnel on that one, but I miss the magsafe connector. I like the bigger trackpad, great! I give the machine a solid 8/10.
I would love if Apple released an iPad Pro + Macbook thing. Perhaps, I can never go back from a device with touch + pen + convertible to tablet device. I am attempting to live in harmony with the touchbar, but something feels just a tad of the mark with the new Pro.
The latest macbook was the last straw, a 40% increase in price is not acceptable. I switched to a Nexus (and loving it). I bought a macbook for Uni (2015 model - The loss of ports and addition of a battery draining touchbar doesn't appeal) but only due to the fact that I needed something that would perform well and last all day. (Gaming laptops only last 2-5hrs).
Unless they unveil some version with ports reinstated and a huge battery (16+ hrs) I don't see myself ever going back.
My only complaint is the high cost.
Kinda defeats the purpose having a nice sleek macbook only having to plug something like this into it
It is quite possible that company X could handily outrank company Y, but for every segment of the laptop market that they both participate in Y's offering beats X's.
It looks like the main reason Apple is #5 on their ranking is a low score in "value & selection". Apple gets 6 points out of a possible 15. The top 4 get 14, 15, 15, and 14.
For that component of the score, they "[...] awarded points for offering a wide range of laptop types (budget, business, gaming, etc.) and for providing aggressive pricing".
Only Microsoft got a lower "value & selection" score (5). Microsoft also got slammed on innovation because the only new model since the last evaluation was the Surface Book with Performance Base, and that only changed the base. They got nailed on design too for not offering more colors for the Surface book.
Yet they call the Surface Pro 4 still "the best detachable on the market", and the Surface Book Pro with Performance Base "One of the most powerful 13-inch, non-gaming systems currently on the market", and say that Microsoft remains "a clear leader in 2-in-1 innovation".