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Ask HN: What if there is no inheritance?
21 points by onmyway133 on March 13, 2017 | hide | past | favorite | 38 comments
What if there is no inheritance, so that everybody has the same start, does that make life fairer?



I really like Warren Buffet's description of the ovarian lottery, below. I think about this question a lot now that I'm a (relatively wealthy) parent with two small children. If I have the opportunity, is it acceptable for me to provide them with a privileged life. Maybe so, if I can also teach them to be grateful for what they have received and understand that it's their job (as well as mine) to make a more fair world.

Warren Buffet: "My political views were formed by this process. Just imagine that it is 24 hours before you are born. A genie comes and says to you in the womb, “You look like an extraordinarily responsible, intelligent, potential human being. [You're] going to emerge in 24 hours and it is an enormous responsibility I am going to assign to you — determination of the political, economic and social system into which you are going to emerge. You set the rules, any political system, democracy, parliamentary, anything you wish — you can set the economic structure, communistic, capitalistic, set anything in motion and I guarantee you that when you emerge this world will exist for you, your children and grandchildren.

What’s the catch? One catch — just before you emerge you have to go through a huge bucket with 7 billion slips, one for each human. Dip your hand in and that is what you get — you could be born intelligent or not intelligent, born healthy or disabled, born black or white, born in the US or in Bangladesh, etc. You have no idea which slip you will get. Not knowing which slip you are going to get, how would you design the world? Do you want men to push around females? It’s a 50/50 chance you get female. If you think about the political world, you want a system that gets what people want. You want more and more output because you’ll have more wealth to share around."


It's John Rawls' Veil of Ignorance!


My thoughts exactly.

For anyone not aware: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veil_of_ignorance


Milton Friedman on a 100% inheritance tax:

https://youtu.be/MRpEV2tmYz4

The argument is basically that it would encourage very wasteful behavior. If you think about it, people often work to make the lives of their children better off to a large extent. My grandfather who lives in a poor country living on a pension still sends me $100 he saved up periodically despite the fact that I'm wealthier than him by many factors.

Without the ability to pass on wealth to future generations, empires would not be built in some cases, end of life would include many wasteful lavish purchases and the black market for wealth transfer services would balloon


What is a "wasteful purchase" in this case? If the idea is to keep the money moving and to not give people huge amounts of free money by accident of birth, is not any purchase that isn't effectively taking huge amounts of raw materials and destroying them (as opposed to making something useful out of them) a good thing?


I would argue a wasteful purchase is fast cars and boats. By buying these IMO frivolous goods, you're diverting resources from investments that would serve society to those that benefit the very few (luxury auto makers). If instead you invested in stocks and bonds that fund companies that generate value and passing on the future proceeds to that investment to future generations, this would be arguably a better use of resources


Unless you buy at the IPO, which is a minority of share purchases by a very long way, you're not funding companies. Buying a company's goods, such as cars or boats, however...


What about investing stocks and bonds into companies that manufacture fast cars and boats? :)


might as well just ban all entertainment entirely as it's entirely frivolous


Also, the government would be incentivized to kill off it's wealthiest citizens.


I'm 30 and I luckily still haven't collected inheritance. If and when I do, it will come too late in life to make much difference. The head start I was given was down to the way I was raised by my parents, including the things they paid for. So unless you're suggesting making it illegal to buy your children clothes, food, education, etc, (an extreme form of communism?) I'm not sure inheritance has much bearing on social inequality. Only the very wealthy have so much inheritance that it impacts the way they conduct their life from birth.


Even without inheritance, not everybody would have the same start, because of how they are raised. For instance, rich parents can afford more expensive toys and tutoring.

To make education more equal, you would have to separate children from parents and give them all the same quality of education. But radical changes to society would be required to do that.


It goes both ways. Children of the well-off can end up feeling abandoned in daycares and boarding schools. Compared to other children who are generally raised by their parents (or close family members) with whom they develop a strong bond, it's not entirely clear to me who has it better.


You may still get more lucky and be assigned better genes and teachers.


Then you'll just see more aggressive versions of the tactics the rich already use, like setting up charities that employ their children, etc. And the middle class will get screwed again.


That's interesting: why the middle class? What about classes below the middle?


because the poor aren't giving their descendants monetary inheritances. The middle class can give their descendants some form of monetary inheritances, but wont be able to afford to use the complicated schemes that the rich do. Hence, the middle class gets screwed.


The middle class can already bequeath to their children tax free. Only the extremely wealthy face restriction and it's very easy to avoid (via capital gains step ups, lifetime gifts etc). With a little planning, you can give $5.5 million tax free.


5.5m per parent.



Absolutely not.

Working to enrich the lives of our children is a fundamental drive. You can't eliminate that with a law.


But we could insist that people do it while they're alive.


... because everyone knows when they are going to die.

But seriously, you want to end up with a bunch of spoiled brats?


What we traditionally think of inheritance is only part of the picture of what makes life unfair, but abolishing it would certainly help stop the top 0.1% controlling massive dynastic wealth for generations.


The only way to do this is to have a 100% death tax and to have an open bidding system for all assets. Otherwise you'll see deathbed $1 transfers of wealth. The open bidding system for any transfer at any point in life.

The problem with this whole concept is the number of people who received some kind of wealth transfer from their parents. Pretty much everyone I know has received financial assistance from their parents and are terrified of the idea of not having that leg up. Even amounts as small as $5,000 is far more than most people get. A lot of people don't realize how much their parents gave them.


To claim that there is only one way almost always belies a profound lack of imagination.


That would mean all posessions need be taxed at ones death. So governements would be in competition for those taxes. Most likely by offering tax benefits ;-)


Yes, inheritance is fundamentally immoral. An obsession with one's genetic output is simply primitive tribalism.

My kid has had enough benefits already, and frankly if he can't make it as an adult that's his problem.

Some people of course can't make it as an adult for reasons beyond their control (disabilities, extraordinary bad luck, et al) and society would be better off providing a viable baseline for everyone. For example: good roads benefit everyone. Universal health care benefits everyone and helps small businesses. This problem will only get more extreme as robots take over more and more labor.

BTW my kid's only problem with my approach is that I joke that the assets are going to the home for homeless cats. He doesn't consider cats a good enough cause :-)


> Yes, inheritance is fundamentally immoral. An obsession with one's genetic output is simply primitive tribalism.

I assume you favor your own children over other people's children? If so, wouldn't that also be "immoral"? When you picked up your child from the maternity ward, would it have made no difference to you if you had picked up someone else's child instead?


>> [me] Yes, inheritance is fundamentally immoral. An obsession with one's genetic output is simply primitive tribalism.

> I assume you favor your own children over other people's children? If so, wouldn't that also be "immoral"?

Well, as I said, "My kid has had enough benefits already". Certainly he had the benefits and drawbacks of having the parents he did.

The dual problems arise from the social consequences of a "dynastic drive." One is the need to produce fully functional adults without the need of financial, social and other control over one's progeny. If children and their parents know they will grow and make their own way, it reduces, let's say, "parent" issues in adulthood. Both know there's no chance to "fix it" post moving out.

The second problem is the general "me" vs society issue. You were alive, you got to be a good and a bad person (all of us have been both), you had the lucky breaks you did. When you die, that's the end of it. If you are focused internally and on your genetic stem line (whatever that really is) you are less focused on your needs, and those of others, from society as a whole.


How about you can leave no inheritance to your kids if you want to, but you keep your hands off the rest of us's stuff? If you want to talk about "fairness", freedom is fair. Stealing from others (even if done through the mechanism of government) cannot be.


How exactly would you do this?

Certainly by the point a parent dies, the child has already reaped many benefits. Education, networking, travel, exposure the finer things money can buy...

Furthermore, isn't there some benefit to having people who are ambitious with built-in safety nets? What if Bill Gates hadn't been able to go to Lakeside? And would we still have Microsoft if he wasn't comfortable dropping out of college?

Not everyone starts in the same place... some people have more money, some are taller, smarter, prettier, stronger, faster, etc. We have to make sure the rules reflect this and constantly work towards keeping the playing field as level as it can be for those starting out.


What if all inheritance was collected and evenly distributed? - at a rate of X assigned at birth based on existing pool to be awarded at age Z or by medical need... In general, people do not value governmental transparency so we always have corruption that would subvert this, but it's the solution that I would select (in some fashion).


Taxing property, rather than income, can have this effect.


Sure, if we were all investment bankers.

But what about cattle ranchers... apple growers... asparagus farmers... shouldn't they be allowed to pass on their businesses to their kids too?

I know that ranches, like the one I grew up on, are capital-intensive business that have relatively low margins. Just about anyone would look at a rancher's books and say, "Yeah, sell it, invest the money in a mutual fund and you'll make a lot more money." The secret: ranchers aren't doing to for the money.

* Paul Harvey, God made a Farmer - YouTube || https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VrUewoakmQ


Only rich farmers and farmers that die young give their farms to their kids. Most farmers sell their farms to their kids. Farmers don't have pensions or retirement investments -- they spent 40 years paying off their mortgage and then use that capital to fund their retirement.


The market would be forced to adjust. Beef, dairy, and other products that come from farms would become much more expensive.

And that's not necessarily a bad thing (possibly not a good thing either). For example, it may force the adoption of vertical farms and force people to cut down on their meet intake which probably has a net health benefit.

A real problem with that is how to value property. Property is not always easy to value. For example, I'm pretty sure the tax office values my house by fair dice roll. (joking, hopefully obviously)


Yes! Composition over inheritance!




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