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everyone knows russia does it. their whole game is, "see. everyone oppresses their citizens. america is just as bad as us and real democracy can't exist"



Where everyone = every American that knows very little about foreign affairs (and probably couldn't even point Iowa on the map), but believes all the crap they see in mainstream media, from WMDs to the latest "Russians hacked our elections" -- and always roots for the current "enemy du jour" of the establishment.

Aside from the constant pressure and threats, and the constant military presence around its borders, few in Russia would give a flying duck what the US does. Seriously, why don't people just get a passport and try to talk to people around the world to see what they actually think?


yes everyone who disagrees with you must be ignorant and uninformed.


Any other rezson to disagree? This is literally the only reason to believe in your position over another


On particular topics, like whether the earth is flat, or the one I mention above, yes.


>Seriously, why don't people just get a passport and try to talk to people around the world to see what they actually think?

Have you done this? A lofty goal.


Yes. I'm from Europe, and I've been to over 20+ countries, including all around the states many times.

We have a tradition of paying more attention to international affairs in this here parts (Europe at large) -- and being quite more mindful of geography and history in general. With the US the only international affairs that people talk about is mainly the current enemy du jour or philanthropic cause. And it's not like they know a lot of the background of those things (or even basic elements of them) when asked.

Not to mention we are actually learning/speaking foreign languages and even reading foreign movies and media (the people at large: not e.g. some art-cinema watching hipsters).

A European online would read US media AND his country's media. And often of 1-2 other countries where he shares a language or speaks their language. An American? Not so much from everything I've seen and read.


> A European online would read US media AND his country's media. And often of 1-2 other countries where he shares a language or speaks their language.

This is also very true in Asia. If you turn on a TV where I am, there are channels from all over in many languages. There are the big US news networks, BBC, RT, France 24, other news networks from China, Japan, Singapore, Vietnam, etc. We get cheesy Indian and Thai dramas and horrible 80s cop movies from China that are remarkably similar to horrible 80s cop movies from the US. The last time I watched TV here (I don't own one) I saw an interview with Slavoj Žižek on a European network.

I am of the same mind as you that US citizens would benefit tremendously from exposure to more outside media.


Constant pressure and threats? Can you provide a few examples?


The NATO expanding its presence all around their border states, 24x7 demonization of Russia and its actions in the media, financing "orange revolutions", sanctions and embargoes, all kinds of NGOs and opposition parties sponsored openly (and often covertly) by US organizations to meddle in internal Russian politics.

Just check how many Russian political groups, organizations, events and "NGOs" a single US body, the National Endowment for Democracy (funded by the U.S. Congress through the State Department) openly lists as funding:

http://www.ned.org/region/eurasia/russia-2011/

And here's an example of crude double standards, either never put forward (since few in the US even know anything of the history of those regions, short and long-term, and just repeat what they read, about an innocent country victimized by those Russian bullies), or ignored by invoking "whataboutism":

A border state to Russia has its elected government toppled and a group of various opposition powers (including neo-nazis) comes to power with strong anti-Russian sentiments. This state has areas with huge populations of Russian ethnicity that don't like the new situation and feel threatened. Russia moves in to those places to protect them. And they're called all kinds of things for it, get sanctions and embargoes, etc. Meanwhile, the US can invade 3 countries they have no borders and no business with -- and no population of US ethnicity living there -- in the span of 10 years, with BS pretexts like WMDs, and leave hell-holes of fundamentalist and civil war behind, plus hundreds of thousands of deaths, and that's a-OK. Or some "self-critique" and crocodile tears is enough to forgive it, but what Russia did in Crimea is unforgivable.

Heck, every second Evil Plotter / Crazy ex-General etc in action movies is still Russian, 25+ years since the end of the Cold War...

Some moar stuff: http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/07/12/putins-threats-to-the...

http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/09/28/ukraine-as-the-border...


"A border state to Russia has its elected government toppled and a group of various opposition powers (including neo-nazis) comes to power with strong anti-Russian sentiments. This state has areas with huge populations of Russian ethnicity that don't like the new situation and feel threatened. Russia moves in to those places to protect them. "

Oh, now I understand where your position on conscription [1] comes from.

Russian info space, apart from this "protecting russians from nazis" war propaganda, is also full of serving-your-country/patriotism propaganda. And it's ridiculous how far reaching it is. Some russians even take pride in not hiring people, who didn't serve. So, this is where your views come from.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13777782


>Russian info space, apart from this "protecting russians from nazis" war propaganda, is also full of serving-your-country/patriotism propaganda. And it's ridiculous how far reaching it is. Some russians even take pride in not hiring people, who didn't serve. So, this is where your views come from.

Only I'm not a Russian. And apart from occasional checking out of RT (as I do of Guardian, Al Jazeera, NYT, BBC, and dozens of other outlets, being a reading junkie) I don't have any exposure to the "Russian info space" (whenever that means, probably a derogatory word for "their" media and websites, who obviously aren't as worthy as yours).

So there goes the BS theory. As if only Russians, and propaganda victims of some "info space" would ever be patriotic.

In fact, visiting the US, one has the impression it's the most patriotic place on the western world.

Nowhere in Europe do we have as many (or any at all, for that matter) flags front and center, or BS "support our troops" stickers on our cars, and heart-felt soap opera news about our "heroes". Or so uniform support of wars, from all sides of the parliament. And our Presidents and PMs seldom talk to God.

(Oh, and referencing a different thread on conscription etc -- a little stalky).


"As if only Russians, and propaganda victims of some "info space" would ever be patriotic."

Here's the thing, that's exactly it. Patriotism doesn't come from nowhere, it's part of government propaganda. And if someone is influenced by it, he either would reject conflicting views from other propaganda sources, like from the enemy, or would reject his government's propaganda and would stop being patriotic.

So, I don't believe you.


> A border state to Russia has its elected government toppled and a group of various opposition powers (including neo-nazis) comes to power with strong anti-Russian sentiments. This state has areas with huge populations of Russian ethnicity that don't like the new situation and feel threatened. Russia moves in to those places to protect them.

Sorry, I've not realized before, that your job is to spread Russian propaganda.

And talking with Kremlin people is pointless, since they're on the payroll and they need to push their agenda.


Yep. I remember when shortly after our [Romania] anti-communist revolution in 1989, some politicians advocated for requiring permits for street demonstrations (something which was still happening at the time) with the excuse that "even America does that".




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