Surely I'm not alone and there is a market out there? The iPhone SE sells well, and will be my next phone after I lost my trust in Sony's compact Android devices.
But it seems like it was a very deliberate choice by Sony.
I mean, they had everything; the design chops, the brand power, the tech, the Sony Stores, etc... Everybody knows the iPhone, Sams's Galaxy, LG G series, Moto phones, but Sony really failed to market their Xperia phones properly.
Just for fun, I went to Sony Canada's website to look at their phones and they have 21 models on the page. I'm not joking. https://www.sonymobile.com/ca-fr/products/phones/
The only good Android phones I've used (and I've been using Android since the G1) have been ones Google had a hand in: Nexuses, the original Moto X, and the Pixel. The Sony came close, but the heat problems killed it for me.
I would still jump on a well done, small, Android phone.
The Android ecosystem is difficult to recommend, and a small Android phone is even more difficult to recommend.
I haven't seen an authorized seller for Xiaomi and I was under the impression that they are still using marshmallow or earlier. Also all their phones are 4.5"+ which is much larger than the comparably compact SE.
I'd love to get a xiaomi phone (esp. based on the price and alleged build quality) but it's just not worth the tradeoffs.
I found that despite not always being on the latest version of Android, they had enough polish and stability on their OS to make it worth being a version behind. I used their ROMs back before they made hardware, and if there was ever a bug, it was usually fixed within a week (or at least acknowledged).
And I agree, I'd love for Xiaomi to sell phones, but like everyone else is stating, the iPhone SE is arguably one of the best compact phones. I hope to have mine for many years.
To make sure that phone's frequency will work: https://www.frequencycheck.com/
Listings of great phone: https://www.kimovil.com/en/
So I'm going to ditch it soon :/ Terrible feeling ditching a perfectly functional thing, I wish I had the foresight when I purchased it get the larger HD.
(I also worry about accidental touch rejection on an edge to edge screen. My AppleTV 4 remote is the most useless apple product since the hockey puck mouse of 1998 because the touch pad was registering input when I just picked up the remote. Now I use my AppleTV 3 remote with the 4.)
There is another patent regarding the TouchID sensor working through a screen:
The front facing camera is a bigger issue.
Or be super cool and have a mechanical system that pops out a little speaker at the top and a little mic at the bottom.
If I end up actually calling someone (and pretty much everyone I know despises this and will do anything possible to avoid it) it's usually by tapping their number on a web page or in an app like yelp.
Why would it stop you making a phonecall?
Be sure that you get the 64GB version though! My wife had the 16GB version and had to upgrade to the 64GB version, because the live photos, etc. took up quite a lot of space.
+1000 I got the 16GB version and I've had to micromanage some of my apps and definitely the photos and stuff to free up space. Luckily I don't take that many pictures so I'm ok with occasionally deleting data. Can't imagine using something like Snapchat though (which I used to use but now don't) it uses a TON of space.
That seems like an odd jab, given Sony are rolling 7 out for discontinued models. Compare with Samsung who axe updates in less than a year in some cases.
Who does better?
I guess that might be true for most Sony devices - but my z3+ recently got updated to Android 7 - and the "high end" Sony phones have pretty decent open source support:
Now, I would indeed like to see even better updates (like 7.1 ota) - but so far my experience with Sony is better than other android manufacturers.
On the other hand k-9 just slowed to a crawl - not sure if it's a coincidence with having a "big" inbox and downloading the last 1000 messages - but I fear not.
But for maps/navigation, you could just use a tablet or laptop with offline maps (e.g. maps.me).
The iPhone SE is really great, my only complaint is the 64gb limit. Rumors of a 128gb on the way though.
More crucially, their support is awful - I had to send both a Z3C and Z5C in for repair shortly after receiving them, and in both instances they kept onto the phones for more than a month because they didn't have available parts. And with the Z5C refused to admit that it overheats. On that basis alone I can't justify buying another Sony device.
This was in the EU though.
I'd probably be also using it if it supported a newer Android version.
My wife used it, and it was a lovely wee phone. I really wanted the X10 Mini Pro, but for various reasons missed out.
Glad we've kept the X10 Mini, for reminiscing at least!
I had the Xperia X8 and still have the Xperia Ray, would also love a current device using that form factor...
I'm committed to the app store, but if the apple offering doesn't change I'm gonna jump to android right after the 8 announcement. googling around the samsung a3 seems a solid midrange offer (albeit I'm worried about operating system not getting updates) for the pocketable for factor
I think the new thing though is going to be same sized screens with smaller bezels, resulting in smaller phones. Samsung and LG's upcoming flagships both look to be substantially shrinking the bezel.
My only gripe is software buttons so quite a bit of screen estate is taken by the button bar.
Right now I'm rocking an ageing 8310; the buttons are worn out and, one of the more interesting problems with running a 'classic' phone is that the contacts erode a modern SIM card every 6 months or so.
Today we got a curvy 'featurephone' with a camera, which is valid, but feels like that's something already out there.
They've basically created a generic featurephone and piggybacked on the glory of the 3310, which was anything but generic.
I highly doubt the new 3310 will be even slightly as durable as the old one.
As zbuf said, I was also hoping for a 3G or newer modem, 2G networks are being shut down in many parts of the world and will continue to go down in the next couple of years.
I yearn for the days when we got unique designs like the Nokia 6820/E70/N95, the Sony Ericsson M600i, Moto Razr (as junky as that phone was), etc. Even the Nokia Icon was an edgier but classy design. I just went with a Sony Xperia XZ recently because it's one of the few smartphones that seemed like the engineers bothered to apply a modicum of creativity/differentiation to the physical design.
Not round the corners? That gives you 2 options, and one is less comfortable in the hand.
The old phones could have interesting features because they had hardware keyboards, but the screen that's sometimes a keyboard (and symbols/numbers/emoji/swipe/draw) has won out over the better keyboard and smaller display options.
Nokia used to innovate with phone design because they had their own factories. Those days are long gone.
According to wikipedia:
> Notable customers and products the company manufactures include BlackBerry, iPad, iPhone, iPod, Kindle, Nintendo 3DS, Nokia, PlayStation 3, PlayStation 4, Wii U, and Xbox One.
Experimenting with design has very limited payoffs in the phone market these days (ask HTC), and retooling at Foxconn's scale is very expensive. Design innovation wouldn't be worth it.
According to people who seen the phones the are similar to the old Lumia line by Nokia. Guess why that is??
My beef was mainly that I went through the top rated devices on GSM/PhoneArena recently... Basically the only smartphone with squared edges or a unique design was the Galaxy Edge, the Xperia XZ, and the Xiaomi Mi Mix.
On the other hand, Apple is known to be obsessed with design even in the most unusual places. Have you ever looked at a motherboard for a MacBook? It's just beautiful; the colors, the arrangement. But not everyone will notice.
It's an antifragile plan. They would have to invest little to port and keep Maemo running on these new terminals. But if it takes off it can give great ROI. Also, it buys them independence and differentiation.
They should also provide AOSP for these phones, so that we don't get yet another Android terminal that gets no updates past a few months. It'd be nice to have alternatives for pricy Pixels to run CopperheadOS.
This is correct. ton = thousand.
Unfortunately thousands of loyal followers is not even a good start.
(Not that they will- the Nokia name has been licenced, so the manufacturer doesn't really have an incentive to push Meego)
And the Maemo platform kinda lives on in Sailfish. If going systemd and wayland can be called "lives on". Never mind that i suspect they in part got developer attention because of some experiences developing (for) the Maemo platform.
I'd guess that that period has expired.
The Series 30+ operating system on these devices is kind of weird. It's basically a generic clone of the old familiar Nokia Series 30/40 phone UI, but made by MediaTek instead of Nokia itself. I guess what happened is that the internal featurephone OS teams were terminated when Microsoft acquired the business, and they just picked up the closest replacement from the Chinese clone masters at MediaTek.
Now, the atrocity that was the OS for the Nokia Asha phones, that is a completely different story.
I just wanted a small dual-sim phone, don't need any other features than the ones it provides.
I know J2ME was not really good, but they managed to get something even worse. It's almost* impossible to develop applications to their new phones.
* http://mre.mediatek.com/ is down for good since the start of 2017 and they announced that they would shutdown in 2015/12/31, so I don't think there's any official way to download the SDK.
Seems like it will ship with an integrated Opera Mini btw, as one of the press shots had that stylized O as one of the icons on screen.
The problem is that Opera mini is a MITM browser that does not handle neither real HTML nor WML. This makes it so that not only most web do not work, even web apps with old WML interfaces will also not work.
So, some tasks, such as checking your e-mail or IM, are almost impossible. Note that if J2ME was supported, you would at least be able to install an e-mail/IM client (even if it was a shitty one).
As for "IM", phones already have that. Its called SMS.
$600, 12 hr battery, tells me every 10 minutes how the world goes down the drain.
Consumers might like it but everybody else would hate it. It cuts into profits and teaches wrong habits to consumers.
However friends want to messsage me on Whatsapp (ergo wifi or mobile data), I want to use the GPS from time to time, I want to google things from time to time (ergo more wifi or mobile data), etc., etc.
>I want to
I agree. It's important to direct wants of the consumer into frequent use. The real value in marketing is creating cultures where people must consume to participate.
Consumer needs are path dependent, so it's important to not allow avenues for countercultures or ways to avoid traps.
Are you saying they're guiding/tricking me into wanting/using the GPS?
Said featurephone is getting long in the tooth though and pretty banged up (and is on its second battery)...
The Nokia 5 has the same basic hardware as a Moto G4 Play, but costs twice as much ($200 instead of $100). You're paying double for a possibly better camera and a metal back.
Similarly, the Nokia 6 is a $242 5.5" 1080p phone. The Moto G4 is a 5.5" 1080p phone, but has a Snapdragon 6xx processor rather than 4xx - and costs less. Again, the Moto is lacking the metal design.
The Nokia reputation doesn't really have anything to do with these devices. They're certainly playing it up in marketing, but I think that's yet to be seen. It's possible they'll have good build quality, but looking at the Nokia 6, it's not going to be more durable than an iPhone. In the video, they clearly want to leave you with the impression that they're somehow more durable than other smartphones, but the display is just Gorilla Glass (of unknown generation) completely unprotected (there's no lip or anything to deflect some falls).
The Nokias definitely look cool, but are they offering a better option? In addition to the Motos, you can get a Huawei Honor 5X with a Snapdragon 6xx for well under $170 unlocked on Amazon. That has a better processor for $70 less. Again, they definitely look good, but they also seem expensive (42% more expensive) compared to, well, more powerful options.
When put in the perspective of 42% more expensive, they don't look as great. It's like, "yea, they're fine, but if I'm being cheap, I should get a Moto G or Huawei Honor. If I'm not being cheap, I should get something with a better processor than a Snapdragon 4xx series." I mean, a OnePlus X is $200 with a Snapdragon 8xx series processor. The OnePlus X isn't a great option for Americans since it doesn't support enough of the North American bands to get good coverage, but the Nokias don't really support North America at all. I have nostalgia for Nokia too and the phones do look pretty, but I'd definitely take a $200 OnePlus X over a $242 Nokia 6. Similarly, a Huawei Honor 5X or Moto G4 looks to have a better processor than a Nokia 6 and they cost less. A Moto G4 Play has similar specs to a Nokia 5 for half the price. And I think Motorola/Lenovo are coming out with a G5 this Spring (which might be before the Nokia gets into customers' hands). LeEco and ZTE also have devices with more power.
The thing about the mobile industry today is that it's reasonably saturated with good options. The Nokia devices look nice, but they're in the "get notified when you can actually get one" stage. Let's say you can get your hands on one in June. By then a whole slew of new Android slabs could be out - possibly with better specs and prices. I do love CNC machined aluminum like the Nokia 6, but I also like a phone that has enough performance to be great to use for a while.
I'm guessing that Nokia is going to push these in cheaper markets. There are European countries like Poland and Greece that have lower GDP per capita, markets like India where Nokia has been historically strong where people might be willing to shell out an extra $75 for the Nokia, and China where the cachet of having a Nokia could play well (Volvo, another Scandinavian brand, plays well there). But it's a hard market that's saturated with plenty of good options and it's hard to one-up anyone given that all players (other than Apple and maybe to a small extent Samsung) are essentially pulling from the same parts (and OS) bin.
They look like fine devices, but they're not a value you can't already get for multiple manufacturers today and given that they aren't available yet, it remains to be seen what this Spring will bring from competitors. I mean, they're super pretty and that almost makes me want to cast off all my cynicism aside and say "screw-it, I want a pretty blue or copper metal Nokia", but the practical side of me notes the Snapdragon 4xx processor (and the fact that the device won't work where I live). I kinda wish that Nokia had decided to go high-end. I think Nokia could have done well with a $650 device if their build quality is actually what they claim in the videos. Why not stick a Snapdragon 8xx in there with the latest LTE and a display to match. I mean, we all miss Nokia and the Nokia 5/6 look nicer than most Android phones out there. Why not go after the profitable part of the market? Even if you don't want to deal with CDMA, there are a lot of people on T-Mobile/AT&T in the US or other GSM-stack carriers in the world.
But, alas, it was probably a calculated effort to play into the markets that might have the most Nokia dumbphone penetration today and therefore most receptive to a Nokia smartphone.
Nokia is back!!!
I was kind of hoping from this statement that it actually was the classic version of snake on the 3310. But it's not, you can see in the video that it's a modern version. Not that that's necessarily bad except for nostalgic reasons.
You can buy a Samsung/Chinese 3G candybar format phone for $30, which gives good battery life.
Many emerging markets still sell more feature phones and dump phones than smartphones. India for example.
There is even small reverse trend when customers in developed world when people are getting fed up with smartphones.
I'd assume that UMTS would be shut down long before 2g.
As it stands its a curious oddity.
So the world market will be fractured no matter how you look at it.
At least they are offensively sticking to plain Google Android, so the usual excuse "we customized ourselves into a corner, now you can only get security updates if you buy new hardware" is out of the picture.
I hope they have similar build quality as the Lumia 920 although that seems unlikely.
Otherwise SD card support, the type of lenses, regular Android and promise to actually care about updates are very enticing.
In any case, my device is not going to die yet, so I still get to see how they actually will look like.
Either way, I look forward to the real world reviews, I hope they live up to all the expectations.
It could be all lies, but then why should they? Given the current market situation it is quite clear that absence of brand "improvements" will create more loyalty than the add-on ever did.
That is a legitimate selling point for me, I'm not a fan of the customised Android versions sold by the likes of Samsung, it reminds me too much of the old Windows days where every OEM would sell computers with their own customised versions of Windows, loaded up with their own software.
Unfortunately the 5.5" Google Pixel (the one I want) seems to be perpetually out of stock.
A big plus with Apple is that they just don't let this happen, you always get stock iOS on an iPhone.
The long battery life of feature phones is fantastic, and I could certainly type faster with T9.
The experience often falls apart when you want to join a group text, book an Uber, get directions etc. There are lo-fi versions of these, but the experience is bad enough to just not be worth it.
I don't have any social media apps installed on my phone, nor do I have my work email set up.
My car has navigation, so hailing a Lyft is not a thing I do and being constantly connected to social media is not a thing I desire.
The Convoy 2 has whatever Bluetooth was new in 2010 and can stream music to cars, BT speakers, etc. Its removable micro SD card and battery means I've got more storage than most iPhone users* and still only charge it about every other week.
Only Verzion tracks where I am--the phone is innocent, knowing nothing of our post-Snowden society.
Its halves are only a little thicker than an iPhone 6, but it's shorter than an iPhone 5, so it disappears into my pockets.
I really like it and have kept it after briefly trying both of its successors--the Convoy 3 was larger and looked worse, for no discernible reason, and the Convoy 4 is targeted strictly at old people. The 4 is a huge, nasty plastic thing with a slightly-improved camera, on paper, but somehow manages to run slower than the 2. Quite the disappointment.
*Buying music from Bandcamp, Amazon, Beatport, etc. instead of renting music from Spotify means you can listen to music without a 4G connection! Crazytalk, right?
However, it's the 1% that really makes me love having a smartphone. Looking for a place to eat in a new area, needing maps, etc, access to banking in a quick and easy manner.
I did make the leap for a nearly a year. The problems you point out are legitimate, and they made me to move back to a smartphone. Hopefully the 3310 fixes some of those bigger issues you point out (eg: group texting) just as a function of being newer.
The market for the 3310 is larger than you think. For one, there are plenty of old people that prefer to have something simple and smartphones are a nonstarter for them. I think we might actually buy two of these for my grandparents, as they're about to move onto our family plan from another provider.
Beyond that, I think a lot of people who walk around with an $800 phone might be interested in spending $50 as an insurance plan, so that if their phone breaks they have a readily available backup, or if they're doing something risky they can have something to take instead. (Of course, that means you can't post photos of your crazy exciting life to Instagram and Facebook while you're experiencing it, so I doubt most people would be interested.)
I personally won't pick one up because it lacks 3G and LTE, and I would never buy a phone that I can't tether to my laptop. I realize the lack of those radios results in the battery life it's able to get, but I'd prefer for it to be disabled by default but still available for when you need it.
I can't be unique in wanting something that's not a candy bar? I've passed peak smartphone - and toned down my app use. I'll accept a few different formats as alternative.
Yet again, after a ludicrously short time, my sealed in smartphone battery was getting tired. I was hoping Blackberry was finally going to make the "obvious" handset change - a Classic with Android. They announced they were exiting handsets instead. The Far East gets a selection of Android flip phones, mostly very expensive premium, never coming near Europe. So I settled on getting a LG V20 when it released as it at least keeps SD and removable battery. Then LG decided EU doesn't get those.
So when my "smart" phone died, I got my old V8 Motorola (The Linux based flip follow on to the v3) out the drawer. It's fantastic. It gets more signal and clearer calls than any smartphone I have owned, and the original (12 year old?) battery gives weeks of standby. It has ergonomics. Of course the camera is awful, and there's next to no storage.
Seriously, give me that form factor with modern storage, Android and keep the a tiny screen that only comes on when you flip open. I don't need a huge screen to run a chat app, or listen to "turn left in 100 yards", or book a taxi. I can't think of a single app I use that needs a 4"+ screen. The miniscule external v8 screen is perfect for notifications and music player use. Should get decent standby life...
Nope, the entirity of global capitalism offers me 23,509 near identical candy bars in a simulation of choice.
I actually just spent some money to repair my 208, because it's the last of these to support 3G as well. I guess I was right not to wait for this one since it doesn't appear to support 3G.
Did they deprecate the J2ME version of Google Maps?
I went back to a feature phone for almost a year, though I had a smartphone in "airplane mode" with me for most of the same time, but I'd just connect that to wifi.
> I don't think the Nokia 3310 would achieve that either.
Probably not. One thing that I couldn't get used to with the feature phone was call quality. It was terrible. I don't know if that's GSM (as compared to what 4G was like on my smartphone) or if that was the build quality of the feature phone (which was a rather cheap phone). But I agree that the 3310 isn't likely to entice many people to take the leap.
Other than that I have no reason to own one and would love to get rid of it. I deleted all my social media accounts, I use normal taxi services and public transport, I memorize directions from my computers and so on. I don't even check my emails on the thing.
That 3310 will definitely be bought and tried to see if it works better than what I have right now.
I loved the 225 for its simplicity and general responsiveness but texting was abysmally slow after entering a few dozen characters: while the phone was recomputing the text layout on each keypress I could almost see the code as it was written by someone who clearly should've read about computational complexity on compsci 101. That was the sole reason I dumped the phone, especially as SMS is one of the main uses for a dumbphone. Battery was great though, and ringer volumes, speakers and the microphone were good. I suspect the new 3310 is pretty much another revision of that phone.
I would pay decent money for an old skool feature phone that:
- is small enough to fit in a tight pocket without me either feeling it in the first place or bending it broke
- doesn't have its back cover, battery, and phone flying in three directions when I drop it one the floor
- has battery life in weeks
- has a simple but usable camera, 2Mpx is enough for taking photos sharp enough for notes
- has blazing fast user interface with absolutely no delays or lag (how hard can it be?)
- its UI has predictable command paths instead of scrollable list and grid views so that I can punch MENU+5+3+2+1 or something similar to dive directly into one particular submenu. This is how you set your phone to silent/vibrate/loud in the good old times, while walking and never looking at the screen for feedback because you just knew what the phone would do.
- Has 3G/4G data and a basic mostly text-based web browser for checking out timetables, locations or opening times if absolutely necessary
- Has a native online map application: Google Maps for J2ME was, if a bit outdated, still decent
- Bluetooth for transferring contacts, audio files, and photos
All these features have been in phones ten years ago, probably earlier. The best phones at the time had probably 90% of the above list, usually by lacking something that wouldn't have been fixed by technology if only smartphones didn't take over.
Some people, including me, need two SIM, so I would not buy a new 3310 (though I had the old one and loved it) for that reason. My current phone however is a dumb dual SIM paid €20 new, and I would not swap it even for the latest iPhone or any costly Android equivalent.
In the Nokia 210 also Facebook and Messenger were usable, from the movie it's not clear if it's available this time. Perhaps there is a list of aditional apps under the squares icon.
But more interesting would be earphones with decent noise cancellation, which get power from the phone. Huawei has those at $80. But earphones are delicate.
If Nokia can them long lasting - and create good demo videos showing the real effects on user life - they may have a nice niche.
My question is - would this new shiny thingy last as long as well or everything is going to get drained by bells, whistles, emojis, big emojis, animated emojis etc?
I used to keep an old Android phone as my "on call" phone with a separate phone number, and with data turned off, it lasted 2 weeks on a charge. Those batteries are dimensioned to run a huge screen and demanding games. When you're not doing that, they last forever.
Totally agree, however not sure how they are doing this by introducing new phones.
Good old 3310
As opposed to the perfect sunlight readability of the original monochrome transflective screen the 3310 had.
I have a Nokia 1100. I've had the thing for over 10 years. It appears that I will run out of 2G networks to connect it to before I can buy a technologically more advanced phone.
I'm an immigrant living in the US, interested in a dumber phone to use when travelling across US border. I mainly travel to Sweden, but would be keen on a phone that works well across Europe, South America and, if possible, south east Asia.
The somewhat modern GUI, coupled with good battery time and dual sim seems appealing - or?
I got a Y6II and Android is about 1000 times more frustrating than iOS, while the hardware and price are great.
I also like macOS better than all other platforms, but hate paying so much for Apple's outdated hardware.
I'd be curious to decompose that into:
1. The fact you're familiar with iOS
2. The fact that Huawei have tampered with default Android and not all of those changes will be improvements
3. The remainder - genuinely valid complaints about Android vs iOS
Number 3 would have to be weighed against a corollary of (1) - if you're more familiar with iOS you'll notice deficiencies a lot quite quicker than you'll notice improvements as the latter requires relearning habits.
I'm not denying the validity of your opinions but I think the factors I lay out above go some way to reducing their universal applicability.
To answer your points:
1. I've been using Android for a few months, I can now say that I'm familiar with both
2. that would be one thing where iOS is simpler. I've tried and I still haven't figured out what the default Android installation is (I assume Google phones?). Every Android installation is different, every phone gets different updates and bugs, etc. What a nightmare.
3. I bought the phone because it was 179 vs. 799, and it had dual SIM. Everything else is worse, but it would take ages to go through all that. In general, the control that you lose with Apple makes things easier. There is one launcher that always works, the apps are double-checked and don't contain viruses or malware, every app follows some guidelines and is integrated with the rest of the OS.
Probably would do jack all good, as the tight integration between hardware and software is likely what makes iOS anything special.
macOS works perfectly on VirtualBox and hackintoshes.
How is this in any possible way true?
She still uses her old Nokia as an alarm and normal phone.
Uses a wifi-connected smartphone for everything else.
Don't ask me why.
> United we have more fun