I took my 2014 retina macbook pro to the Apple Store and got a "topcase replacement" (because my keyboard was beat up with overuse and starting to get flaky). That had the side benefit of giving me a completely new external case, so it looks brand new again. And it includes a brand new battery. And I got a new display for free, because there's a recall on that generation of retina displays for delamination issues.
It feels like I just bought a new laptop at one fifth the price. And the specs on it are still competitive with the 2016 models: 16GB ram, 3ghz core i7. Only the very highest 2016 configuration even beats it, and that by only a little.
I hope Apple hasn't succeeded in reducing processor comparisons to these two useless tidbits of information...
Based on just "3GHz core i7", a chip could either be painfully out of date or current top of the line.
This has always bothered me too. I suspect that the ambiguity is intentional on the part of Intel and/or Apple marketing (though I'm not savvy enough to know why exactly).
However, if my laptop is old and slow, and I'm already in the market for a new computer, I can easily be convinced to buy the computer with the "bigger numbers". Buying i7 instead of i5 only a small part of the full price, so why not?
When I think about my daily work - it is very multi-threaded:
* parallel builds
* video running in chrome
* a zillion tabs open
What I really care about is battery life.
I would be exceptionally surprised to see any of the higher-budget games running on a single thread. Low-budget indie games less so.
Personally, I've found that a good benchmark for "what is happening in most games" is the lowest common denominator - consoles.
Having said this, you might be arguing that it's hard to split everything out equally in a game - but it's far more likely that threads are created for the stuff that can be - physics calculations, sound, etc. (the stuff that might have, in the past, be split out to dedicated hardware)
They are, though slowly. The skylakes are a bit faster than the broadwells are a bit faster than the haswells, etc.
The old CPU's sharing a name with the new CPU's makes them sound like they're still up-to-date. Which I guess is great for making you feel better about your old device? This seems potentially detrimental to sales though, so I still don't understand the impetus for marketing them like that.
It's an entirely usual thing to maintain marketing names between generations because the marketing name is rather a description of the target audience than of the concrete feature set or technical specs.
We know that i7 in this case refers to the laptop class processor because of the article. If taken out of context, then this information is even more useless.
Even at the same generation, a laptop class i7 is roughly on par with a desktop class i3.
edit: mandatory bitching about people who put Apple on a pedestal - AppleCare only covers the battery up to 1000 cycles. Mine was at 1080 cycles. Time to open the wallet.
Am I missing something, or did you pay $300 for a battery replacement you may or may not have needed and recall rework you should have received (one would think) for free?
One great thing is I have Applecare on this one so I won't have to pay a penny for sure..
On another note: what I actually meant with my comment is that I'm kind of amazed Apple still has parts for a 2yr (and presumably 3yr according to OP) old laptop, since they usually push their old stock out pretty aggressively. They either must have giant warehouses full or still have the factories churning out old parts??
Much of this is legally required (and as well, they can get a higher price for new devices when the older ones hold their value). If you check the Apple web site you'll see that how far back they will fix your device varies by jurisdiction (country and even state): https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201624
I assume largely they stock pile them in advance, be interesting to find out for sure how that works.
Edit: I think this is it. https://www.apple.com/support/macbookpro-videoissues/
 Mid-2014 rMBP 13"
My major concern about the touch bar is that it really makes things worse. I second the author opinion.
I use Spotify a lot. Before, on my MBA, I could change the volume or hit play/pause with one key tap, straightforward and easy.
Now I have to hit the tiny expand arrow to display these keys and then hit play/pause etc.
It could get even worse because Spotify added their own touch bar buttons when you use the mac native app.
But the dynamic display is different depending on whether the app is the front or in the background.
When in the background it becomes a shortcut you have to click to make a different set of keys appear. You get lost very easily, plus it becomes redundant with Apple native play/pause keys... So I'm always confused when I just want to hit pause/play.
From the settings, if I'd like to fall back to the always on standard set of function keys then I lose the dynamic app keys. Which is weird. The OS should be clever enough to expand the function keys when nothing else is available instead of a black unused zone and a tiny shortcut zone on the right.
The esc key (as mentioned in the article) is really hard to reach most of the times because you have to quit the current display (cross) before it becomes available. Why not keep it always on the left ?
It feels like the touch bar hasn't been thought through very much. It needs some more work... The good news is that it's mostly software improvements so let's hope Apple / App developers can fix that quickly.
This effectively makes the touch bar a useless feature, but at least I can customize the button mapping and always know the buttons will be where I expect them to be.
You can also remove the Siri icon and add a Play/Stop icon to the default icons on the right. Go to System Preferences -> Keyboard -> Customise Control Strip. You can then move your cursor down off the screen onto the Touchbar, drag Siri out of the way, then drag a Play/Stop icon down into the Control Strip.
Then it will always be there even if the control strip is contracted rather than expanded.
I don't like the Touch Bar, but I've grown to hate it less. However it does register unintentional presses regularly. And no, I'm not "using it wrong".
I concur with this. iTunes has on several occasions simply begun playing without me even touching the keyboard.
After a few weeks with the new MacBook the Touchbar is really the only thing I vehemently dislike about it. I especially dislike that it wants to display the Siri icon despite Siri being disabled on the machine.
Now I just accidently pause or mute my music instead.
Like this, maybe? http://www.imore.com/how-customize-control-strip-touch-bar-m...
If these are truly unintentional touches, as in, you were not touching the bar at all and it registered a key press, then you probably have a hardware issue. I just replaced a machine that would self press the touch bar on the right side when putting any sort of pressure (like resting your palms) to the right of the track pad.
Maybe they should have come up with a way of requiring a press to active buttons on the touchbar.
It got so frustrating that I gave up and added loads of whitespace to the far right side of the bar. It looks weird having a big chunk of empty space there, but it has dramatically reduced my accidental activations.
At this point though, almost two months in, I'm just apathetic towards the bar. I tried to get used to the 'app contexts' but it felt too forced for me. So now it's just a function bar with a bad UX. I rebound Caps to escape and got used to it because the touch escape, even with the extended hitbox, feels extremely unpleasant to use.
I'm hoping someone figures out a way to run an app that takes over the bar even when not in focus. I'd quite like, for example, to have a mini version of iStat Menus on it, the currently playing track, or some other cute widget.
I know the above is not how Apple intend the touch bar to be used (as a second screen), but I'd sure find it more useful than what it does now!
I have to make compromises if I want the play/pause control then I'll loose the brightness or volume because the shortcuts are limited to 4 max even if the touch bar is mostly unused black space on the left most of the time.
You can't customize the app buttons unless it allows you to which is not the case with Spotify.
1/ display the same touch bar UI when the app is in the front or background otherwise it's confusing.
2/ keep the spotify controls visible when using chrome for example (chrome doesn't have any touch bar controls yet). Right now I have to click the newly added spotify shortcut all the time. Maybe a way to decide which app should be displayed when the space is unused would help (in the OS settings).
I like the song play progress bar, it would be even better with the current and next artist/song names and covers.
I haven't played with it yet, but it looks like as long as the thing you want to do has a hotkey you can use this to make touchbar button to do it whenever you are in that particular app.
I open sourced the script and methodology I used to run heavy battery use tests: https://github.com/geerlingguy/macbook-pro-battery-test
And I also published the raw results of the third full battery test on each laptop: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16H6TeKCOZRwzsd5bZJM2...
# Builds completed Total battery life Avg. Build time
2016 Touch Bar - 3.1 GHz i5 49 4:54:00 0:08:45
2016 Fn key - 2.4 GHz i7 30 3:54:00 0:07:52
2015 Retina - 3.1 GHz i7 24 3:30:00 0:06:02
Above is straight off of his website. Looks like the OLDER MBP has more builds/more battery, which is what he was saying. Your table looks completely wrong, but I understand that he had some errors on the original site. The comments in the article claim that the above is correct.
"The MacBook Pro battery life results were highly inconsistent from one trial to the next."
did you see the same?
For my test, it was full bore, using lots of CPU (all cores), lots of bandwidth, and lots of I/O, with the screen on 100% brightness the entire time.
They are doing a retest this week.
So on the battery front it seems not all is lost.
This is my last 12 hours. http://c.ekin.io/3o0S3e1j3i36 Have been working on several projects with a VM and PgSQL running at background. This is comparable to my older device.
FWIW I switched to Linux on ThinkPad X220 on the day of the MBP announcement. I've added 16GB ram and a SSD. I can't think of any reason to go back.
You are reaching, I don't think there are all that many developers abandoning them. I don't know of a single one personally. I've heard of some vocal critics on the internet, but that's hardly representative of a movement.
Counter-anecdotally: In the small company I work for, every single developer wants a better machine (some of us use 2012-2013 models), but nobody wants the new models, and watched the announcement with disappointment. Everyone is either holding out for something new in 2017, or considering a non-Apple Windows/Linux laptop. More than anything, people want faster, more powerful machines.
Conversely, people also watched the Surface launch and were super impressed. The Surface range overall is underpowered compared to most of the new MacBook configs, of course, and it's Windows, but it seems like Microsoft suddenly understands computer users better than Apple, which is an odd and surprising reversal.
Apple's abandonment of displays was also a source of disappointment. People want sleek, Apple-designed, large "retina"-style screens. The new LG 5K isn't too bad, but the fact that it requires a new, underpowered MBP moved the announcement down to just "meh" on the scale of impressiveness, as opposed to "hey, wow".
Edit: FWIW, I bought the MBP 2016, then returned it after a week, for many of the same reasons in the article. Commented about it here .
true! i guess you can look at it this way: apple is not a computer company anymore, it's a luxury goods company. microsoft has become a computer company again after years of being an 'enterprise software' company, for lack of a better term.
So I'm sticking with Apple, as I've been using them since the Mac Plus days. But now I'm wondering what to buy? Wait for Apple to hopefully fix this model in a refresh or by a used or refurbished 2015 Retina model.
I've considered switching to Windows/Linux but I don't relish the thought. I don't use Adobe creative apps any more so I could switch.
This is the first time I've returned an Apple product.
Apple has lost the plot and their greed and control issues and outdated product features and lack of innovation make it just a terrible platform to try to get excited about as a developer.
I just got my 13" MBP with Touchbar and actually love it. The overall experience is not that different anyway, but i actually really like the keyboard, despite trying it in a store and being not really convinced. I also love the display, compact size/weight and TouchId is pretty cool as well. The thing i find a bit annoying is the touch-ESC button and the Spotify stuff you already mentioned but it's not a major dealbreaker for me.
Likewise i know two other devs who recently got one and they all seem really happy.
But I'm annoyed Apple is forcing users to get the Touch Bar model if they want Touch ID, four TB3 ports, slightly faster RAM, and slightly faster WiFi.
I know a handful of people who normally upgrade every refresh and are flat out refusing this time. A couple (that aren't locked in by being iOS devs) have picked up other laptops instead.
I disagree with your assessment that it's a "great product." I bought a spec'ed out one myself that I eventually returned.
Not claiming either one of us are the majority but I wanted to add my side and not state it as ultimate fact and certainly not present it argumentum ad populum.
Apple fanboy after reading a new blog post on how developers with a huge followership give up their MBP, which are ranking in the top of HN every day since the announcement in Oct 2016: "These developers are only a minority. There's definitely no trend here whatsoever. 100%. Trust me. It's based on my opinion."
"If you don't like Trump, leave the country". "If you don't like the video, don't comment, just ignore it"...And then what? Let's all just shut down threads that crticise anything at all, because, of course, if I don't like it, I can just move on.
This is not synonymous with upgrading their MB/MBP.
My biggest dilemma is not whether or not to upgrade my aging 2012 MacBook Pro Retina with a 2016 model. It's whether or not I should buy the 2015 version while it's still available in some stores.
Apple would be foolish to believe this. A lot of the MBP's "sex appeal" is the fact that it is so widely used among developers and creatives. Similar to professional athletes all using one brand of tennis shoe. The effect is that the masses will see it as the top quality product and want to buy it. If everyone shows up at conferences next year with Thinkpads (although I wouldn't count on it) they might start noticing.
You know what all my graphic designer friends are losing their shit over? The new Microsoft Surface Studio.
The excitement my visual artist and graphic artist friends have for the Studio and Dial should terrify Apple. But Apple seems to have forgotten who their influencers are.
A good friend is a videographer who uses everything apple. He's seriously concerned by the lack of ports.
I run an online business, write and make videos. I'm also concerned by the lack of ports and by the lack of a consistent set of keys on the touchbar.
Neither of us are thinking of switching, but we're in "wait and see". I bought a macbook pro for a project last year, and was planning to upgrade when the new model came out. Haven't - the new one doesn't seem compelling.
And people have bought macs and iphones due to my influence. Apple is foolish to ignore the professional demographic.
On the other hand, Ballmer was perhaps cartoonish but not idiotic when he trampled around the stage yelling "Developers!". Software developers are hugely important, and should be to Apple. It's trite but worth repeating: no one wants to use an operating system. People want to use the software that runs on the operating system.
People who care about how it looks won't be getting thinkpads, but dell's xps 13, or lenovo's yoga line.
I'm still entirely sceptical that this is happening. There's been a lot of noise for sure, but I have yet to know a developer directly who has done this, and I don't live in a bubble.
Ordered it with ubuntu, because I hope that helps to have Dell decide to continue making the developer edition. Installed fedora though, which just works without the need for extra drivers.
Got it in silver but applied a matte black skin from dbrand which makes it look pretty awesome.
It sucks, but I don't blame manufacturers for pulling back from laptops, the money and market aren't what they used to be. The good news is that it looks like the laptop divisions of most companies are becoming more enamore with "developer" editions and ultra books as developers are increasingly a noteworthy share of the marketplace. Can Apple really be blamed for pulling back a bit from a retrenching market?
That market share is partially created by developers using the platform. It stands to reason that Apple's bad decisions will create a new "market share" elsewhere as developers abandon the platform.
And partially created (and probably more so) by having a customer base willing to spend money on apps. Developers will go where the money is.
Unfortunately for app developers, the gold rush for the App Store is long over and these days it is getting harder and harder to get a return on selling your apps. This is not surprising actually, given that most apps are shit. Seriously, in case you haven't noticed, besides a handful of apps that are actually useful and a handful of games that are somewhat fun, all other are shit.
I still remember when VLC was banned from the iTunes App Store, supposedly due to some patents stuff, leaving in place dozens of click-baits shamelessly using VLC's name. I actually bought a video player app in the hope that I'll find a suitable replacement, but you guessed it, it was shit. So then I returned it, after searching on Google for how.
As both an Android and iOS user spending money on both, in my case especially for games due to my son, you begin noticing that Android's free apps are better, Android having an actual open-source ecosystem. Of course, things aren't perfect and for iOS at least I found and bought a decent RSS reader, but then I ended up paying for Newsblur and using it on Android which also counts.
The point I'm trying to make is that: (1) iOS will probably not make your app sell better if your app is shit and if your app is any good, it will sell well on Android too and you'd be a fool to not release it on both and (2) if people buy more apps on iOS, it doesn't necessarily reflect well on iOS.
Well, ok, I have an iPhone SE (nobody makes a decent small android phone) -- but I'm a regular 'consumer' as far as smartphones go :).
My current laptop is a 14" Dell Latitude running Fedora. It's reasonably portable while still having a decent CPU (quad-core i5, rather than a low-power ultrabook processor). If you avoid the consumer-grade Dells and stick with the Latitudes and Precisions you'll get a solid, durable machine that's actually upgrade-able.
I am thinking about switching to Linux too. I am no iOS developer, and I find their OS upgrade also goes to the same dead end of prioritizing flashy look above usability. After all, why paying a premium only to be ignored and told by believers that my opinion doesn't matter, at all? Time to vote with foot.
Hyperbole? The had similar backlash when; they switched from 68K processors to PowerPC, licenced Mac OS to third parties, un-licenced Mac OS, Dropped OpenDoc, dropped ADB, dropped 30-pin, dropped the floppy drive, dropped the CD/DVD, dropped the headphone jack. Heck, they even got the same when they switched to Intel! It has been ever thus.
Guess you missed the iPhone's lack of Flash support and copy/paste?
Apple is used to getting blowback; it is not unusual, and it is sometimes warranted. When it is, later models address the complaints.
I mean, just compare the initial reaction to the very first MacBook Air, to how people feel about that model line now.
It is way too early to know how the new MacBook is going to do. It's way too early to know if the Touch Bar is better UI than function keys.
It's not early, most things in UI design are actually very scientific and can predict in advance how fast you can use something. Basically touch bar is harder if not impossible to use without thinking and looking because it breaks consistency and is also slower to use because targets are smaller, i.e. you have to be more careful not to touch other targets, etc.
I cannot say whether Apple have designed and rigorously tested the Touch Bar with UX in mind but they do have a fairly strong reputation for doing such in the past.
Most users can't touch-type the function keys, so having to look isn't much of a departure for the vast majority of their audience.
But it is hardly a backlash. The users complained at the time, most of them simply didn't have a iPhone. It is more likely people saying, I won't buy a iPhone because of A/B/C.
While the new MacBook gets complains from its EXISTING user base, who feel that Apple is taking features that are useful to them away and making the product worse.
There is big difference between not giving what your user want and stripping what they are happy with.
As is the case for the Touch Bar.
Every day there is something not posted here, on Reddit, or Twitter by another developer not moving anywhere.
And by the very same token, it doesn't mean they are! Can we keep the fallacies out of this please?
They are what? Happy Apple doesn't sell high end hardware? I don't get what you are trying to say.
Apple defined functionality combined with beauty. Now they are putting beauty before functionality.
And as for "not a priority demographic anymore"... Were they ever? I think it was more an accident of being a better Unix. And it still is, so I'm sticking with it.
Can't wait to swap out my 2012 15" MBPr 256GB SSD / 8GB ram brick for a nice 13" with more storage and RAM, dongles be damned. They're a minor inconvenience for being able to use a good OS.
But yeah, developer adoption usually predicts adoption by power users and the remainder of the market share. In a way, non-power users are switching to mobile progressively and using/upgrading/consuming on their PCs less and less.
IMO this just means you're somehow a "simple" user ("just" console tools, etc)
"You're not a professional user" has been implied way too damn often lately. It seems that the new MacBook Pro has brought out the worst in our community, where people now need to measure their self-worth based on the hardware specs of other people's work laptops. It started with people saying "The new MacBook Pro is not a professional laptop", with the hidden implication that anyone who uses one is not a professional user. If it's not a professional laptop and I use one, I can't be a professional. Simple as that.
But now with you coming right out and saying "if you don't use the tools I do, you must be a simple user", you've exposed it for what it really is. It's a pissing contest. To be a real professional, you have to use tooling that requires an i7 with 32GB of RAM and software that only runs on my preferred platform. If you don't use my tools and my hardware, you're "simple".
It's not just Apple fans, it's not just Linux fans, it's not just Windows fans. It seems pervasive. If you use macOS in 2017, you're not a professional. If you use Linux in 2017, you're simple. If you use -blank- in 2017 you're -blank-. Because my hardware, my software, my tooling is better. And actually in the Mac world, it's gotten to the point where if you aren't using a 2013 or 2012 MacBook, you're part out of the "out" crowd. The older the better.
Whatever happened to the good old hacker mentality of "if it works, it works"? When the answer to "why" was "why not"? And since when did someone using "just" console tools mean they're a "simple" user?!
Many people that complain about Linux commonly want Photoshop, support for games, cad tools like Altium, some specific font rendering, etc...
All anyone wanted was a retina macbook air. That's it. Everyone was perfectly happy and just wanted a nicer screen.
All anyone wanted was a mac pro tower with updated SATA and USB speeds and new processors, etc. That's it.
Instead, in both cases, we got silly weird things that nobody wants. I'm never going to buy the non-tower mac pro. Similarly, when the new touchbar macbooks were announced, I ran to the apple store and bought a nice, new max spec 11" air to hold in reserve in my closet.
Now I'm covered on the laptop front for at least five more years and apple has cumulatively lost out on 3-4 laptop and mac pro purchases from me.
All anyone wanted with the MacBook Pro was: better performance, 32GB RAM, better battery life.
It's a pro machine, it's meant to sacrifice some portability for pro features.
Someone on here said that if you mentally replace "pro" in Applespeak with "deluxe" it starts to make a bit more sense.
Unfortunately, no it is not. The processor in those things is pretty crippled, and the lack of ports is beyond ridiculous.
That's not gonna change with Apple hardware anytime soon :(
This is not how Apple works.
Apple decides what users want and builds that.
If they are right, it's a smashing success. If they are wrong, people still buy it and then convince themselves that this is what they actually wanted.
You have a point there, but that decision didn't use to be at random(s/random/internal politics/), the way it seems to be now.
"Innovation is saying no to 1,000 things" - Steve Jobs
I suspect that the touchbar and the applewatch would be 2 of the 1,000 things.
If you think that these are now just ideas that they randomly decided to follow through on you have no idea how many things they throw out.
I didn't know that, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the watch would be introduced in the state/form it has been, or even that it would see the daylight at all.
Well, they don't have a choice of hardware suppliers, unless they are willing to take the Hackintosh route...
I miss the cheese grater towers on the Mac Pros that were really quite nice and the ability to get in there. Back to building PCs now though and still love it, then just have an iMac to compile iOS apps.
Also, Apple is trying to obsolete all these Mac Pro towers as well by not allowing the next os to run on it, not wise. I had to sweat on the last release and just made the list of 4 year old machines that a hardware company is trying to obsolete through os software that adds little value.
Tim Cook really missed the boat with that whole "post-PC" stance for pro users. Apple is post PC apparently but the pro users just went where it wasn't post PC.
I love the touch bar and I was really impressed with a form factor and design of the new Mac Pro. I don't find touch bar silly, Apple would not be Apple if they did not try new things and experiment.
The issue of the TouchBar is not that it exists. It's that it replaces a good, well functioning component by something much worse.
I think diversity of hardware is good. Not everybody needs the same stuff. When I'm back in the GUI world, the touchbar is fantastically more productive. I can dismiss dialog boxes without moving the cursor. I can navigate to functionality in programs more easily than with pull-down menus.
If somebody has a problem with the new escape key, and still really wants caps-lock or really wants control as their caps-lock, fine.
I'm glad he found something that works better for him. But the current 13" MacBook Pro with touchbar works wonderfully for me, and I'd be so happy to never have to deal with worthless (to me) F keys again. The touchbar restores functionality to keys that in the past had been relegated to volume control only, for me.
So to all the people that dislike the touchbar, that's fine! Buy something else. But please don't begrudge me my increased productivity or enjoyment of it. I remember tons of people being similarly infuriated at the lack of physical keys on the iPhone. In the end, it's a compromise that the world felt was worth it; less tactile feedback for increased screen space and dynamic functionality. For me, and I believe for 99% of programmers, and 99.9% of the population, the touchbar is a better compromise than touchscreen smart phones were.
I always hated Flash. Does that mean Apple shouldn't have ditched it because that's what some users were asking for?
I think you can overstate the "faster horses" principle. Apple doesn't have to give users what they specifically ask for, but they do have to solve users' problems. That's what Ford did.
I know a lot of people that hated Flash with a passion since 2006+, and couldn't wait to have a viable alternative. I, like many people I know, consistently ran a Flash blocker.
I ran with one from 2009 until 2014, when I got a Mac and realised that, thankfully, Flash was dead on most sites, and I didn't even need to have it enabled it in my main browser 99% of the time.
The non-touch bar 13" model is exactly that. It weighs the same as an Air and has a smaller footprint, with the same 15W processor for good battery life. Problem is they jacked up the price because Apple.
However, time away has made me realize that I never want a laptop that large ever again. It's overkill, inconvenient, and sells poorly.
I would still dig a pro 17" thicker and more powerful MacBook.
I rarely use the touch bar and I still miss direct access to brightness / loudness up and down, but I have also learnt that a barely use function keys anymore. ESC on the Touch Bar is good enough, however, ESC has become less important on Mac OS, Photos.App for example seems not be support ESC at all.
The battery is fine too. I use my MacBook mostly for long meetings, i.e., 5-6 hours, and up to now, there has always been plenty of battery left. That is of course with a rather new battery and for light news (using a text editor, viewing PDFs, some web browsing, distractions like e-mail / instant messaging / social media from time to time.)
The keyboard … well, I don't really like it, but whenever I use my old 13" MacBook Pro (Retina), I don't like the old keyboard either. The real annoyance is the noise resulting from my fast and obviously rather hard touch typing.
I am keeping my MacBook Pro with Touch Bar. On the other hand, I would immediately buy a MacBook Pro without Touch Bar if it came with Touch ID and more ports than the current MacBook Pro without Touch Bar.
PS: How do you call the effect that you are more likely to like expensive products as a kind of self-deception? ;)
That was my biggest hesitation; I did love Touch ID, and the two extra ports. Living without them after two weeks of having them is proving to be annoying (but liveable).
But one point of my post is that Apple shouldn't make me feel like I can either choose to be slightly robbed (Touch Bar), or suffer from a compromised experience (Function Key).
It's called post purchase rationalization, a special form of choice-supportive bias, a form of cognitive dissonance.
Also, I brought a 2016 MBP and contemplated keeping it despite not liking it because I wanted a Mac OS X development environment. I ended up returning it. There are more choices than the two you stated.
I've read your parent comment a number of times. Where do they express general dislike for the laptop? They say the keyboard is loud, and that if a non-Touch Bar model were available, they'd buy one, but other than that, I read it as them being happy with it:
I actually like my 13" MacBook Pro with Touch Bar.
Also probably, as so often, a bit of Confirmation Bias here and there. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias)
I've had the laptop a few weeks now and I'm starting to like the touch bar more and more, now that I've adapted to using ctrl-[ instead of ESC in Vim. The touch menu's in most applications are still useless, but there are some exceptions that show that the idea has potential. I like the player controls, both the built-in ones and e.g. Spotify, for skipping, pausing, scrubbing and volume. I also like how I can quickly change colors and styles in e.g. numbers without having to use the trackpad/mouse to use the popover menu that may or may not be open. Say what you want but these are improvements compared to the static row of numbered F-keys.
When it comes to the 2016 MBP HN is the same echo-chamber it's always been. There's a lot to complain about the MBP, primarily the price and battery life issues (which I presume are a software fault considering the high variance for similar workloads, and the fact that I regularly get 8+ hours on mine). How people spin this here as if the thing is completely useless is comical though, as if everyone needs more than 16 GB RAM, and carrying a C-to-A USB dongle around kills you.
Pro OS X users that actually need more RAM and better specs are probably much more affected by the pitiable state of the current Mac Pro. If you really need to push a modern computer to its limits these days, chances are that you're much better off with a desktop system anyway. The fact that the Mac Pro is a much less popular topic to complain about on HN suggests that most of the people complaining do not actually need more power than what the MBP offers but just like to get on the current MBP sucks hype train.
You can still purchase a legacy MBP from Apple. Scroll down past the touchbar MBPs.
I've found it quite funny though to see the "The year of Linux desktop". ;) It's also interesting when people link to stories about Apple from previous product releases with very comparable comments. Nothing much changes, it seems.
However, for all the other random apps I use (Keynote, Photos, etc) I LOVE the Touch Bar. Finding the particular operation I need up there without having to go to the menu/toolbar/mouse feels awesome.
(Note I'm speaking of reviewers in general, not the OP)
But they took away the Esc key...
IMO the touch bar should have purely replaced Fn keys - running between Esc and a power/touchID combi-button. Cheaper model could then fairly seamlessly have stuck with Fn keys still, and all would have a proper Esc key and power/touchID.
I bet if they had just moved the ESC key to the tilde and had the Fn key turn it back into the tilde key, people (developers) would have received the touch bar a lot better.
No! Tilde/backtick key, are you kidding?
I use those almost as much in a development setting as Esc!
Other than "Shell" programmers, I don't think the backtick is really that popular. System and embedded programmer would probably be frustrated without simple access to the tilde for bit flipping, but overall, I think having ESC back make the most number of people happy.
> Price: This is the kicker—you have to pay more for the
> Touch Bar, even though it provides a worse computing
> experience. And you can't get Touch ID, two extra
> Thunderbolt ports, or a few other niche niceties without
> also taking the baggage that is Touch Bar along for the ride.
AFAIK, they didn't reproduce that model. Surprised Apple didn't take note.
But instead, they may have made it worse, if that's possible, because the escape key is indented, just to make the Touch Bar's graphical layout even on both sides. Definitely the worst case of form over function I've encountered with an Apple product.
The Lenovo crowd on the other hand are old-timers that want real keys that click and thats why the Lenovo touchbar was so hated.
The Touch Bar is going to be great for those folks. And the new screen is better as well, displaying a wider gamut of colors than previous Macs.
Because Macs have gotten so popular with developers, it is easy to fool ourselves into thinking that developers are what saved Apple. But it was actually creative professionals who were one of the customer "pillars" that Jobs built off of when he came back. Developers flocking to the Mac is a fairly recent development.
- I work extensively in video/cgi software, it's not just devs annoyed by this device.
Your definition of "pro" is not universal. It is not absolute. Anyone who says "the new MacBook Pro is not a pro device!" needs to get over themselves. You're not the arbiter of what can and cannot be considered "pro".
Getting a Pro meant you wanted some kind of 'performance'---perhaps for games because of the separate video card, or a better CPU to run some taxing application.
What I have heard is that if you're a person who lived and breathed Excel, or you're a developer, then you'll likely use the function keys.
Personally? I've never used the function row keys for anything anything raising and lowering the volume of my machine.
But the only time I can remember that Apple canned such a major feature in their hardware was the iPod Shuffle going voice only back to buttons.
Feel this release is way too high profile so we're going to be stuck with this mess.
Touch interfaces suck: they are too easy to press accidentally, and too difficult to press on purpose. In college, I actually taped pieces of paper onto my friend's TV with capacitive buttons so we could tell where the fucking buttons were in the dark. If you were off by a half centimeter, you'd turn the TV off instead of changing the volume. I regularly turn on my game consoles by lightly brushing my arm against them because of their awful capacitive buttons. Dumb, dumb dumb.
Touch interfaces provide no benefit over physical buttons except in cases where you cannot have physical buttons. Phones are a good example: physical buttons add too much bulk to the phone or drastically reduce your screen size. You also don't have a defined set of functionality. A touch interface makes sense here.
But on a laptop keyboard? You've already got a ton of keys there! Just add ten more! Instead, they've added the suckiness of a touch interface for no reason, since there was no compromise to make.
Touch interfaces aren't modern, they aren't stylish, and nobody likes them. You use them when you must make a compromise for form factor. Otherwise, stick with physical buttons.
I do have touchscreen on a tablet that I think works at B grade overall. In drawing programs nothing beats being able to scale and rotate the "paper" with 2 fingers. I hope while I am still alive they can perfect just that :)
I have a touch-only radio in my car. It's a security hazard. I often have to slow down just to change the radio station, change the mp3 file that's playing or adjust the volume. It's a disaster.
I should not be looking at screens, I should be able to run my fingers over a physical setup and understand exactly where I am. (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
> "The all-new Touch Bar revolutionizes the keyboard experience by bringing dynamic controls to your fingertips. This Multi-Touch Retina display at the top of the new MacBook Pro keyboard changes depending on what the user does in your app, so you can surface context-specific features and controls."
...except anyone who can type will almost _never_ look at their fingers when typing. And what type of people can type? People that own laptops with names ending in "Pro".
Touchbar doesn't make sense from any perspective
Disclaimer: I have a Macbook Pro with Touchbar. Right now it's connected to a monitor and I'm using an external keyboard...
Right now Touch Bar plus Safari is offering itself as an alternative to the Safari's own tab-bar showing available tabs as keys which can be pressed - this screenshot shows it - http://assets.hardwarezone.com/img/2016/11/mbp-touchbar3.jpg
Currently, without Touch Bar, it's a small eye movement to Safari's tab-bar to see what else is open then using shortcuts like "Ctrl + Tab" or "Shift + Cmd + [" to jump between tabs.
With Touch Bar the alternative is a long eye movement to the keyboard, scanning the tiny thumbs to figure out what each one represents, then tapping the right one - which probably means taking the left hand off it's normal position on the keyboard, then returning eye back to screen.
Productivity-wise this is similar to the old keyboard vs. mouse discussion ( https://blog.codinghorror.com/revisiting-keyboard-vs-the-mou... ) but it's the Macbook Pro we're talking about. Slowing down to look at the Touch Bar to me this is not a thing a "Pro" is ever going to want to do.
Perhaps Touch Bar has a place on some of the other Macbook product lines, where you're more likely to have people that look at their hands frequently when typing. But IMHO not the Macbook Pro...
The ones I use daily are F1 for help, F2 for next bookmark, F3 for search, F5 for run, etc...
Volume up and down are Fn+F10 and Fn+F11. Browser if Fn-F1, email is Fn-F2, and so on.
At one point Lenovo had a machine with a touch bar like Apple has now and I believe it was widely panned by users.
When I'm on Windows I touch type Fn keys all the time. Almost never do that on the Mac.
As far as looking at the keys while typing, look at the popularity of backlit keyboard keys. People seem to love them (I don't), and that's because it helps them get oriented.
this a thousand times. also, blue/white leds should die a fiery death. i've taped mine.
> They are a compromise, not a feature
One drawback you didn't mention is that normally with a touch interface hand-distance to screen-distance is a 1-to-1 ratio. If I'm using a 27" display, I don't want to be dragging my hand back and forth a couple feet either way to drag icons.
[EDIT] slack italic notation to HN italic notation
Unless you have something like arthritis.
Mind you, every other accessibility issue I thought of favoured physical buttons to some extent (eyesight, motor control, etc.)
That's why some people who suffer from arthritis have to use a large stylus instead of their hands.
Not true for everything.
Phones? Touch is brilliant
Tablet? Touch is amazing
Working with children on large all in one's with touch designed software - Works like a charm they don't get mouse and keyboard
Some touch sucks yes but not always
Even with games, a handheld console with real buttons is superior for gaming in general but the touch screen works better for (and even enables) certain types of games.
I'm not sure if training kids to stare at screens all day a year or two earlier than they otherwise could is a pro or a con.
10-15 minutes 3 times a week and a once a month assessment. :)
And cars... turning the heat/ac up or down is a nightmare on touchscreens. Compared with a real, tactile knob with a clear start and finish, I don't ever have to look at them to adjust the climate.
Touchscreens are a cost-saving and "more functionality than there is room for"-enabling device, easy to customize and upgrade. But give me buttons any day.
Ever wonder why there is a physical "silent button" on an iPhone? Because if your phone is ringing in a library, you don't want to dig through menus to turn it off. It's the quickest, no-look solution you can do without even taking your phone out of the pocket.
I hope you enjoyed your little high-horse dopamine rush.
There was a -lot- of filler (25+ mins) before the announcement of the MBP, and a lot of it was lack lustre. Interestingly, several minutes were applauding Apple for its efforts in accessibility...
... only to immediately announce the huge accessibility problem that is the Touch Bar.
The solution is to have user interfaces that are forgiving and don't punish the user for making a mistake.
("Have forgiving interfaces" is good advice, but completely orthogonal to "don't make user input interface that sucks")
Meaning ignoring input?
Which in turn would suggest scrapping features to mitigate mistakes.
Which would mean not a professional tool.
I'm not arguing with your statement on its own, but I highly disagree in this context.
In any professional tool I use, I want a 1:1 representation of _EVERYTHING_ I do. The thought of a tool treating me like an idiot (which I am) but correcting me (according to ITS OWN LOGIC) and not letting me learn (which I can) is making me furious to even consider.
It doesn't seem a great thought process or conclusion.
I am sure you would agree that if a user interface doesn't respond correctly first time, it isn't a good user interface. Or if the interface makes it possible to do incorrect things with ease or by accident, it's not a great interface either.
Buttons are better than touch, but I still have to fiddle with poorly laid-out buttons.
But gradually, as the imitators catch up to the Macbook in weight and usability, we will see some migration away from Apple.
I hope and believe Apple's not so dumb as to suffer major attrition among power users and developers. They're a big enough company that they could come out with a "Macbook Classic" that restores some of the lost functionality (function keys at least, maybe non-welded components).
If you examine a pre-2016 MBA or MBP, there seems to be enough real estate above the function keys to squeeze in the touch strip thing as an additional feature rather than a replacement. Why not provide both, and let the users decide?
I wish there were a new Retina MBP with optical disk drive, USB, USB-C, Thunderbolt, and memory card slot. Also, make it easier to upgrade internal components. Is this really so hard? I'd pay extra. Even if the masses are going another direction, there ought to be a power user's version that has it all, and price it accordingly.
There's a certain cachet in being known as the power user's platform of choice and Apple really should try harder to hold onto that.
I used to be able recommend the perfect device for almost anyone, right off the top of my head, without doing much (any) research at all. Now, I don't think I could recommend anything in the Apple lineup with confidence. This to me is a huge failing and saddens me beyond whatever particular piece of hardware Apple has built lately. :(
It's a variety of issues that caused me to end up disliking the entire machine. I could live with the Touch Bar if battery were better, pricing were similar, etc.
If improvements make them more money/time than they cost, people will buy them without a second thought. As they should ;)
I am a developer at Evernote (we are hiring fyi)
1. Touch bar - By far and away this is the most annoying thing ever. IDEs use function keys all the time ... and the touchbar does not know how to display.
> defaults write com.apple.touchbar.agent PresentationModeFnModes -dict-add appWithCOntrolStrip 'functionKeys'
> defaults write com.apple.touchbar.agent PresentationModePerApp -dict-add org.eclipse.platform.ide 'functionKeys'
> defaults write com.apple.touchbar.agent PresentationModePerApp -dict-add com.jetbrains.intellij 'functionKeys'
I hate that I get no tactile feedback when trying to use the function keys. I can no longer touch type the function keys.
2. Keyboard - without the full travel I have to constantly readjust my typing pressure between my detached keyboard and the laptop keyboard. Painful on the fingertips.
3. Memory size: 16g! WTF - my 5 year-old 17" MBP has the same amount of memory
4. Performance - here is the kicker. I play a multiplayer game: World of Warships. The performance on the new MBP is WORSE than on my 5 year-old MBP. Mind you the 5 year-old computer does not have a SSD drive and its battery is EOL.
5. No ports - seriously? I can't hook my laptop to any display in a conference room without a dongle. I have to haul the powerbrick around with me. So instead of just the laptop, I have to take a backpack of gear with the various dongles to meetings. Looks very unprofessional. I can't hook my external ethernet RAID drive to it. Nothing.
6. Other missing things: you no longer get an extension cord with the power brick. This means you have to be right on top of the power outlet to use it. Like I can't use the power outlet right behind me at the dining room table.
7. Siri - really. Like the last thing I am going to do is talk to my computer at the office.
Based on my personal experience with the new MBP, I am not spending my personal money to buy a new mac at this time.
I will just keep my older macs functioning as long as possible.
They'd lose the ability to do sliders etc, but they have a huge bloody trackpad they could use for that.
Or make the trackpad a touch-screen itself.
And maybe never will Chrome allow for full customization for webapps or extensions. Rendering it useless in many contexts. The Chromium bottleneck also restricts developer tools such as VS Code to adopt touch bar features.
None the less, I find myself looking down the keyboard more often than with the old fn keys, not really improving my workflow. This making me question my purchase.
But as stated earlier, software issues can always be fixed.
As for touchbar, I don't think it's just a novelty. I think this will only become more apparent as apps start to implement features with it. It's great for media scrubbing, for instance. I have started to adopt pressing the buttons it shows for confirm/cancel and other dialogs.
The escape key no longer being a physical button feels odd to the finger and took some adjustment, no question.
At first I didn't like the volume / brightness adjusters because I wasn't used to them and much preferred the buttons, but the sliders that popup are just as easy to use and I fiddle with them less to find the right level.
In case of Apple you have to look at your keyboard and press the spot exactly where it is.
I can't imagine that touch bar keys would be faster than that.
I have a 16 core, 60 GB RAM VPS that I start up for heavy processing, so a less capable laptop, but one with a great screen, works well for me.
She constantly has flickering issues when it's connected without a reboot after connecting. It seems to be an unacknowledged issues with video and the macbook, which was attempted to be solved via a visit with Apple where the replaced the dongle to no effect.
The machine is fantastic in terms of weight, screen, and layout. I don't really mind the single USB-C and would love to have one, but the hardware issues have made me decided to sit this generation out and wait for what's next.
As pointed out by someone else here, by running the tests with the screen at full brightness, the considerably brighter display of the Touch Bar model will have consumed a meaningful amount of battery.
Perhaps not _comparable_, but this is down to design decisions by Apple. Just like the "sacrifice battery life for form factor" decision.
So I think he's using this thing plugged into an external monitor most of the time? Can anyone actually use an 11" monitor as a primary monitor? If so, what do you do? I only ask because I struggle to work when I'm on the road using my 13" laptop and I can't imagine being able to get much done every day on an 11".
Good point :-) Funny how things become less important when there's a push to get it done no matter what!
Text on websites and in text editors can be a bit small at times, but changing the font size is quick.
(You can disable LCD font smoothing in System Preferences > General. It requires a redraw in apps to see the difference. Alternatively, just reboot.)
In fact, thinking about it I imagine it to be a rather uncluttered, focused experience compared to the 27" screen full of windows I'm currently looking at. Which isn't an argument against large screens, but poor window management and lack of focus I guess.
I have a 27" 4K display at my desk, but I can be just as productive (sometimes more so) on the short 11" screen.
Heck, I just deal with streams of text 90% of my day.
The smaller screen does force you think in a more modular way.
1. The size is almost the same as my 2011 mbp 13"
2. Retina screen
3. I actually like the touch bar.
4. No more magsafe! Finally I can get the damn thing to charge reliably!
5. No more annoying illuminated logo on the lid.
6. All usb-c is nice.
What I don't like about it:
1. The keyboard is terrible. The older ones are FAR nicer. The keys get stuck down randomly, then after a few days come unstuck, but even the very feel of the keys is pretty gross.
2. Trackpad isn't as nice as the one on the 2011 mbp. Drag and drop is flaky at best, especially in Finder. Press feedback is simulated, and doesn't feel as nice as an actual button.
3. Not much speed improvement. It's a big improvement for compiles since I went from 2 to 4 cores, but single core performance has hardly budged.
4. Stability is iffy. Many apps just crash when you suspend (including Sublime Text, VLC, Firefox. Even the Firefox crash reporter crashes). I also get system freezes (where everything freezes except the mouse).
So upgrading was nice because of the 4 cores, but I'd probably have been happier with a 2015 model.
The touch bar accommodates this. The space to the left of the "key", as well as the "key" itself, all triggers ESC. In other words, the escape key has a target much larger than the physical key, about the size of the physical tab key.
But all the strong points he mentions in the article are more than just "nice", they are really amazing. The big ones for me are:
The SSD speed - I scanned all 300 GB of my current usage with DaisyDisk in 8 seconds. 8. Seconds.
The keyboard - this is easily the most satisfying keyboard I have ever had.
I can see why you'd go for the "MacBook Escape", but the 15" model only comes with Touch Bar, so that decided the issue for me. Plus, I think Apple may still have some tricks up their sleeve for the Touch Bar - allowing us to create our own custom touch bar buttons per app which run our own actions would be incredibly useful, I think.
So it seems many power users are saying Touch Bar is useless at best and annoying and interfering at worst. And the battery life is terrible. And you pay more for less. Who is this thing built for?
I really hope Apple fixes this situation in the 2017 update.
I don't like the touch bar because it forces me to look at my keyboard, which is inefficient and probably unhealthy(moving my neck like that).
I don't like the keyboard because it's too noisy.
I'm disappointed that Apple seemingly ceased to care about the professional user. I'm expecting the top Mac Book Pro to be a machine that's optimized to get work done, the touch bar and the overemphasis on making it thinner and lighter suggest otherwise.
It seems that my next main machine will not be a Mac Book Pro, I will most likely go with a Windows laptop, since Linux still has issues like Wayland vs. Mir.
I have few Mac / iOS apps to maintain but I use vnc or synergy to do that.
I guess the era of MacBooks being the choice for professionals is over. However, I guess all good things like this have to end sometime.
I did not like the touch bar for programming. Maybe when my ide supports the touch bar it will be better. But the clincher was the poor battery life.
I've been a mac user since the mac plus days. First time I retuned one.
tl;dr: Touch bar is in the way, and provides near-zero utility; at best, it's a distracting visual element for touch-typists. Other than that, the new features are not worth the hassle/price. The only feature I really do like is the fingerprint reader.
There are literally thousands of laptops out there. Buy one.
Please no, my 12" Macbook is the best development machine I've ever owned.
does not compute
What does the author mean by 'daily driver'?
It would be opposed to an exotic car or computer I'd use only in certain special circumstances (like the Raspberry Pis I use for testing cluster configurations, at www.pidramble.com).
Say you had a minivan for taking your kids to their schools and sports practices and picking up groceries, and a Lamborghini for going to da club on Saturday nights...
It probably references the idea of having a practical car vs. keeping a sports car or utility vehicle in the garage.
A good question would be if the OP would have the guts to put a sticker on the Mac like "My other laptop is a DELL".
This isn't Hacker News, or even news. It's just a reblog of somebody's opinion about something that is already overly discussed. Their opinion is irrelevant. It's just another opinion. It's no different than if any one of us made a silly blog post about how we did or didn't return some product that we did or didn't like.
It's just a waste.
It also means that developers will start using a Linux based OS, which is pleasing to me.
1. Every time someone brings this up other people say "It's fine." and it really isn't fine.
2. We want Apple to hear that their core customers are unhappy and they should rethink the current course for their hardware.
I love Apple computers but they currently don't provide a serious upgrade option for my 2012 15" rMBP. The 2016 15" is a joke by comparison.
I honestly don't think HN posters (nor bloggers) are anywhere near Apple's "core customers" - that's the millions of people who just want something workable from a shop they trust, not a few thousand (being optimistic) forum posters and bloggers.
e.g. After 5 days, it was already crushing the competition and approaching 18 months of Macbook 2015 sales.
"Indexed revenue" instead of number of units sold? "n=16,754 online shoppers" but the article says "panel of 4.4 million online shoppers"?
But do you know what those people base their purchasing decisions on? The recommendations of the developers and engineers they know who do care about those specs.
I can't tell you how many people have moved over to Apple computers on my recommendations over the years. It's a lot. Right now I have a hard time recommending the 2016 models. If people can get a refurbished 2015 on the cheap I honestly think it's a better choice.
> After 5 days, it was already crushing the competition and approaching 18 months of Macbook 2015 sales.
This statistic is very popular but it's also extremely misleading. Everybody knew the lineup was due for a refresh so 2015 sales were lagging because of that, the higher numbers represent a dam of pent up purchases waiting for upgrades bursting. It's like pointing out that the number of people complaining about the 2016 models is way higher than the people complaining about the 2015 models. Of course it is. That doesn't tell the whole story and is somewhat misleading on its own.
My point is just because initial sales of the 2016 models is high, doesn't mean that it will stay that way. Once they get into people's hands and people find out "Oh the battery life is terrible and I really don't like the TouchBar." those sales may plummet (if that indeed is people's reaction.)
Apple needs to really re-examine. The current 13" and 15" MBP models should be the base "MacBook" models, and they should come out with a serious pro machine and label it as such (which restores MagSafe and has higher battery life.) The TouchBar should just be thrown off a bridge. It's a terrible gimmicky attempt at stuffing a touch screen onto a laptop.
None of the non-technical people I know (and I'll admit that's a small number) who buy Apple kit do not take recommendations from developers and engineers because they're non-technical people - they don't read HN or tech blogs. They look at things like Which? reviews or BBC think pieces or that glossy insert that comes with the Sunday paper.
Or they go into an Apple store where they can touch the machines, use them for browsing the web, get answers to their questions (ok, bit slow at peak times) vs something like a PC World where you can't use the machine or they don't have that particular model in stock despite it being on display or there's no-one around to answer your question or you can't tell which particular constellation of stickers on the laptop means it'll work for you or ...
> Apple needs to [...]
People have been saying this since 2005. They're still here, printing money. shrug
Also don't forget returns. Which is what I'm going to do with my top spec MBP 15". Oh well.
However, this is the first time I've been aware that battery life is genuinely crippled. My perception since just after launch was "occasional problem due to Safari bug".
On the battery issues: the battery in the new MBP is (I think) up to 30% smaller compared to the previous generation. To balance that, Apple is using displays that consume less power. The problem there is that the CPU still consumes the same amount of power under load. I think most devs have experienced the rapid battery drain that comes from running CPU intensive tasks. Given all of this, the results of his tests don't really surprise me.
[EDIT] not that it makes a difference to their revenue immediately, but I wouldn't take touchbar mac purchases as expressions of love of/interest in the touchbar.
Also, for those making a $2k+ purchasing decision, it pays to do a little research as to what other people who work in similar situations think about the different options.
I read a lot of reviews for MacBooks, Lenovo T4xx series, Dell XPS models, etc. Just like with any other topic, the color of varied opinions helps one arrive at a better understanding.
Since my comment is abrasive -- much more so than normal for me here on HN -- I figured it was worth it for me to put some more effort into this and provide some evidence. I easily came up with the following list of topics here from the last month:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13337727 (note that, while the headline is a bit general, much of the discussion is related to the new MBP)
I just stopped after this point. There were more.
Imagine being on a Muscle Car Enthusiast forum, and Ford released a V8 Mustang that had less horsepower than it's predecessor, and worse handling, but just came with minor stylistic upgrades. The same thing would be happening.
Thankfully there is a lot of positivity, though you have to look harder for it.
For the rest of us, it is an equipment choice that might have to make at some point, and the we'll go back to work on our code ;).
Microsoft underwent that pain early in Windows 8 and the first few not-particularly-good Surface devices, and (with Windows 10 and the SP4) is there now.
But of course, Apple has a history of saying one thing publicly which contradict their later actions (webapps for the original iPhone vs. native apps)
I'm inclined to believe Apple in that they don't want to copy the MS surface (other than perhaps developing iPad more in that direction). I think it's a good idea to keep the desktop/laptop OS focused on mouse/keyboard interaction, especially since it's a bit awkward and unergonomic to use a touch screen while the laptop is standing.
But they may try to expand on the touch bar concept. Maybe they will replace the whole area below the keyboard with a touch screen as well. Maybe it will be more useful then. Hopefully they won't replace the keyboard. I prefer my laptop with a proper keyboard.
In theory it would be great if the keyboard surface could change between an actual keyboard and a full touch screen. But I don't see how that's physically possible.
From what I've heard, Steve never wanted to do native apps, but he ended up caving to demand.
The transition to touch already happened with iOS. Apple still needs to keep macOS alive for a few legacy use-cases, but the long-term strategy is probably to move the remaining applications over to iOS, instead of converting macOS to iOS.
Some huge breakthrough in CPU power and technology aside, including changes to the laws of physics and basic ergonomics, we are not going to be doing desktopy-style work on iOS style devices -- unless they get the ability to drive large 4K+ monitors, connect to multiple peripherals at once, talk to disk drives, etc.
And even that would require hooking them with keyboards, stands etc for comfortable working.
People care for laptops/desktops for all the OTHER work and usage patterns that are not good fit for iOS/iDevice form factors.
Driving 4K screens from a tablet isn't that far off. It depends what you want to show on them of course, but just outputting 4K isn't that hard.
> connect to multiple peripherals at once
You're not supposed to have peripherals any more. Your touch screen, the cloud, and that's it. If necessary, hardware devices now connect to the cloud directly (while joining a botnet).
> talk to disk drives
You're supposed to buy more iCloud storage and have an infinite throughput connection.
As I wrote, work that people can do with tablets, which fits with the above, they already do. But people care for desktops/laptops for all the other work you can't do without "peripherals", and with just "the cloud and that's it".
If we all just used web apps nobody would have cared for a desktop that much.
Besides, last time I've checked, the speed of light, which provides the lower limit for latency, is not changing anytime soon.
>You're supposed to buy more iCloud storage and have an infinite throughput connection.
A, I get it, it's a mockery of some supposed Apple idea. I don't think they are to that. If anything Google, with the Google office suite, Google run-everything-within-Chrome chromebooks etc is.
Apple is not really about convergence on the iOS -- they get the different uses cases for PC vs tablet-phone form factors and have made several statements to that effect -- they just don't care that much for the former.
I don't disagree. But is that market large enough for Apple to care about? Apple is pretty focused with its product line and it might not make sense for them to continue investing into the desktop market.
iOS not only has better touch but (due to tight restrictions on background processing APIs ) way better interactive latency than MacOS, where a rogue process can still mean trying to fire up Activity Monitor. MacOS / NeXTSTEP might have a bunch of bitrot, iOS is newer, smaller and more likely cleaner. A version of xcode that works on iOS and more laptop-like devices could be a sign up OS X being on the way out.
I think they're trying to find a role for macOS that would allow them to innovate there, but I don't they have it figured out. The touchbar is just testing the waters, to see if it can make sense to do a dual approach (they've probably played with replacing the area below the keyboard with a touchscreen as well).
An action within the UI to switch to a more iOS feel for use as an iPad style device, and vice-versa to a more Mac style device.
I imagine both macOs and iOs would have to drift more towards each other but that could be a suitable hyprid, and the prospect of actually having a fully functional Mac in my pocket that can be my phone on the go, and be plugged into a monitor later as my workstation is appealing.
Make no mistake if the iPad Pro didn't exist the MacBook Pro would have a heck of a lot more in common with the Surface Book.
Since that is/always has been the working approach, any chance the HN hive-mind could avoid posting EVERY single MBP->other laptop or macOS->*nix article?
When the best available product is no longer available, I don't think the "just don't buy it" approach is really a good response.
(Full disclosure, I think the new MPB looks pretty decent, but for those who don't like it there's often no good alternative now.)
Since that's a normal part of life I'd fully agree if this were the first time, but this is the 15th take or so on the tbMBP since it came out. Simply going by my history, people seem to like the XPS 13 Developer edition, machines from System76, the Thinkpad T460, as well as mentioning the Surface Book and/or Studio in every article as incontrovertible proof that Apple is doomed. Full disclaimer that YMMV, as ultimately, buying a machine is a subjective decision that will always have tradeoffs (this stunningly controversial take was flagged last time).
Perhaps, just maybe, people who chime in "I find this article useful" could do the rest of the community who doesn't think Apple is dying on a daily basis a favor and do a search when they're in the market for a new laptop. But now we're just degrading into basic forum etiquette, a tale as old as time...
A lot of people saw the old MBP as the best out there, and now it's gone, and that upsets them. "Buy something else" is not a good response to that.
So he wants the 12" MacBook which has been out for over a year now... Why did he even buy the new 13" MBP in the first place?
Granted it's not as fast on paper or benchmarks, but it's so capable I am having a hard time trying to justify my next purchase (not enough screen real estate in rarer circumstances: Chrome DevTools alongside the browser window is impossible, OmniGraffle and other apps can feel cramped at times).
The machine did feel a little slower than the i5 when I first started using it but nothing obnoxious.
Context: As a devops guy I regularly build large RPMs, run grunt against a huge codebase, compile packages from source, and all the while with Docker running OpenShift and a bunch of LEMP apps in the background.
You did not simply went to an apple store and tried it before you bought it? You could have saved yourself a purchase & return and the internet a review of which there are already uncountable amounts.
Also you write you build enterprise grade products, but you cannot find alternative tools for covering that last 5 percent? Reads a bit strange. You can come up with clever solutions for enterprise stuff, but you can't properly get tools on linux to do what you need to do?
Soldered-in-everything.. vs "I wish Apple made enterprise SSD controllers for my database servers—who needs RAM when disk I/O is so fast?!" make up your mind please.
You also speak as if fast SSDs and replaceability are mutually exclusive. They're not—check out the specs of the Samsung 960 Pro: 3.5 GB/s read, 2.1 GB/s write.