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MacBook Pro (2016) disappointment pushes some Apple loyalists to Ubuntu Linux (betanews.com)
106 points by StreamBright on Nov 1, 2016 | hide | past | favorite | 111 comments

There's so many negative articles about the new MBP... I wonder how many people have tried it out? I think it looks interesting, and I'm trying to keep an open mind on the touchbar. The lack of escape worries me a bit, but my experience with macOS has been so overwhelmingly positive that my gut keeps telling me to try it out before passing judgement.

The change towards USB C for everything seems like a good long-term move to me. A magsafe adapter for charging would be perfect, but it's hardly a deal breaker for me. I don't mind buying a few adapters. Maybe I'm in the minority. If I'm already carrying around a backpack, what difference do a few adapters make? I'd probably only need an HDMI and USB adapter to interface with most peripherals anyway. When I'm outside of home or work, I don't even use any peripherals.

The 16GB RAM limit is fine for all my needs. My work laptop has 16GB and it can accommodate all my needs just fine. The only thing it falls short on is storage. I find myself having to clean up downloads semi-regularly.

With that being said, I think it's great that linux desktops are getting more love. I dislike the closed nature of macOS, and if I could pay to get an equivalent experience on an open system, I'd gladly do so. Thanks to Hacker News I learned about Elementary OS, which I'm gonna be trying out soon. Vala looks really interesting! I had never heard of it before, and I'm looking forward to having a free weekend to do a deep dive.

> I wonder how many people have tried it out?

I don't know about you, but I don't need to "try out" what 16GB feels like in person.

> The 16GB RAM limit is fine for all my needs. My work laptop has 16GB and it can accommodate all my needs just fine

Will 16GB still be fine for your needs in 2-3 years time (or whatever the tail-end of your upgrade cycle is)? The only reason I can still use a computer from 2010(!) is because I was able to upgrade the RAM; the factory-installed 4GB was more than enough for me then.

I have 32gb of RAM in my 2013 MBP.

I think you are simplifying the argument a bit too much by ignoring price.

In Europe (Dublin) I would have to pay 3750 EUR to get a macbook pro (without kaby lake and with 16gigs of ram)

I bought my 2012 retina model with 16gigs of ram 4 years ago for 2050 EUR

I am also in Europe, and the new model is insanely expensive to the point where I can no longer defend getting one for personal use. My job will probably buy one the next time I'm due for an upgrade.

You can buy about 3 items of HP Spectre x360 for that money. It comes with Kaby Lake (ULV CPUs though), review http://www.notebookcheck.net/HP-Spectre-x360-13-w023dx-Conve...

It might cost less to fly to the USA and buy one here.

The price bump is the thing that puts me off the most.

And while the change to USB-C is a step forward did they really need to completely abandon Thunderbolt 2 ports, couldn't they have had a transition with at least one port on the new MBPs?

Yeh I know it's not Apple's way, but forcing to discard a bunch of perfectly usable dongles and buy a new set isn't very customer friendly and that's before asking the question of why do I need to even buy $100 of dongles to connect a $2000 laptop to my keyboard, monitor, network etc.

Apple should have called these new MBPs Macbook without the Pro. Instead introduce the FatBookPro with the size, battery and all the ports of the last generation MBPs but add 2-4 USB-C ports.

Then make an option for up to 64GB of RAM and customers would only complain about the price - but pay it because it's the best you can get.

> ...but my experience with macOS has been so overwhelmingly positive... I dislike the closed nature of macOS...

Generally, the only reason to buy a Mac is to run the Mac OS. So, if you like Apple's business model and you want more of that, then keep buying Macs by all means.

I don't get why anyone would want to keep voting for Apple's tyrannical style of doing business though. If you enjoy freedom, do not give your money to Apple and please support the business model that you like.

Personally, I buy all of my Apple products used or refurbished from third parties so that Apple never gets any of my money. If you value freedom but you still need to interact with iOS as a developer for now, while it's still popular (hopefully not forever), buying non-new stuff is the way to go.

Compared to the older models I'm effectively getting less at a higher price point.

The Magsafe is missing - it saved me quite a few times and is very convenient.

Work with a DSLR (SD-Card) and USB-Sticks now requires adapters.

Yes, Apple is moving forward and these incompatibilities are others peoples fault who live in the past and didn't yet move on to an all-Apple ecosystem. But the sad truth is that - while I don't dislike MacOS - I don't need it. I can live with Windows or Linux just as well. I might just go back again.

Using a said to be the most cutting edge laptop along with these fantastic various adapters will make you a new joke in the office...

This "article" cites no data and is basically just an ad for System76.com.

I couldn't agree more. Especially this part really makes me smash my head against the wall:

"Instead of 16GB of RAM as found on the Apple, I configured with 32GB (you can go up to 64GB if needed). By default, it comes with a 6GB Nvidia GTX 1060. The price? Less than $2,000! In other words, the System76 machine with much better specs is less expensive than Apple's."

I'm not an Apple fanboy but since the company I work for provides us with any hardware we want, most of us use Macbook Pros. The thing is, sure, it might have 16GB more RAM but it looks like a huge black brick. I'm not even going to start talking more about design but how can you even compare 2.49kg weight to 1.83kg of the Macbook Pro?

My ZBook is over 5kg, my car doesn't seem to mind.

My point, weight unknown, is that Apple are so focussed on thinness they have forgotten that I have "legacy" hardware lying around, still in use. I refuse to spend $ on replacing working external drives, usb sticks and more (home studio sound card for example) simply because some company has decided I need "to get with the times".

Apple want a consumer market in which users consume, consume, consume like tech is a loaf of bread. I'm not buying into that.

I understand your point of view but I think it depends highly on your individual use case. I also drive to work by car but I carry around my MBP a lot at work. We have lots of workshops, hackathons or code reviews where it makes a huge difference that you don't have to carry around much.

I realize that thin is good for some, but not all and Apple are only focusing on that one thing, at the expense of everything, and everyone, else. But I would also question whether you really need to shave off another 3 grams of weight, which it looks like you'll be adding back in cables so you can use those non-USB-C peripherals.

> Apple want a consumer market in which users consume, consume, consume like tech is a loaf of bread. I'm not buying into that.

On a side note: soon the second hand market will be flooded with perfectly working and underpriced "legacy" hardware.

Upvoted. I read the news expecting something new, but I'm left with a question: is it me or these laptops look awful compared to a mac? OK all the nice specs but I still need a portable computer. If I was open to buy something so bulky I would probably be looking into desktop PCs...

i read the article and came away with.

dell 2016 xps13 still the best laptop in the world.

some builder called system76 thinks their blocky box can compete with it or the macbook pro.

probably not.

The article's title alone is already a prime example of a very well crafted clickbait for the HN crowd.

I'd be really curious if they'd cite sales numbers.

So far they're just getting excited about a spike in traffic. Which doesn't surprise me thanks to all these baity articles, comparing the MBP to various alternatives.

So there's the question. Is this just a side-effect of all the ranty articles, or are people actually 'switching'.

I can't speak for the others, but I did install Ubuntu on my 2014 MBP, to ease the transition to a future non-Apple machine.

It's OK, though. At least we finally have a place to discuss the new MacBook Pro.

I have tried several times to go Linux-only as my personal and work platform. It's never the lack of programs that kills the experiment for me. It's the total lack of consistency in the keyboard shortcuts and the fact that when they emulate something at all... they emulate Windows shortcuts, which are terrible.

If I could configure a Linux desktop environment to mimic Mac-style keyboard shortcuts across the board, I'd have already switched to Linux full-time a couple years ago when I finally got sick of waiting for Apple to release a new MacBook Air.

I have a Vaio Pro 13, a Gen 3 X1 Carbon, and Dell XPS 13 in my closet as casualties of my failed attempts to switch to Linux. :-(

I guess we come from different backgrounds, what puts me off on a mac is the inconsistency between Control and Command shortcuts which makes it even worse on a terminal app, I prefer the Linux ones.

I'm of exactly the opposite opinion. The fact that on the Mac (and old UNIX-proper systems) decoupled the modifier key for GUI-shortcuts (Command/Meta) from the modifier key for terminal control sequences is one of the absolute best parts of the Mac-style of shortcuts to me.

It means I get to have Modifer-C and Modifier-V and Modifier-Z always do the same things no matter what program I'm in. In Linux-land I always have to do some extra finger gymnastics in the terminal. Because Ctrl-C will kill processes rather than copy text for instance. Ctrl-Z will pause a process and push it to the background rather than undo, etc.

When I first used Linux I installed Slackware which used the KDE Desktop environment which asked me which key binding layout style I wanted: Mac, Windows or a more Linux centric style. Not sure why I never see those options when I setup a desktop environment anymore but Linux has several. I highly recommend KDE because it is highly customizable just don't know where those options disappeared off to. I always remembered it because I thought it was so considerate.

I actually got closest to my desired state in Linux using the latest Kubuntu precisely because KDE at least provided the interface and facilities to rebind pretty much all the shortcuts... at least in so far as KDE/Qt5 applications were concerned.

The problem that I had was 1) it still wasn't super consistent in operation (due to the layering of control and interaction between shortcuts for the DE and for the WM), and 2) only a subset of the applications were proper KDE/Qt5 ones, and the most commonly used ones (Firefox & Chrome most decidedly didn't conform).

So in the end, while I got to a 70-80% solution, there were still so many irritating exceptions so often that it almost made the situation worse. Because now I could get some applications to behave the way I wanted, but I'd still be stuck with the default shortcuts in some applications, and I ended up having to be extra vigilant of keeping track of which application I was actively using and whether or not I could use my muscle-memory or not.

KDE is by far the most complete architecture for layering in and overriding keyboard shortcuts in a coherent centralized way relative to everything else I could get my hands on. I really wish that the system for doing things like that was actually an interoperability standard vis-a-vis the Freedesktop.org or something.

Installed KDE Neon yesterday (which is a distro, not a DE) and even coming from a different Linux flavor I was surprised at how easy it was to set up shortcuts in KDE. Really impressed with the quality of KDE Neon.

I made this jump. Its been a net gain for me. learned new stuff, new challenges etc.

Went from mac to ubuntu / thinkpad. I saved money doing this.

Things I wish I had that apple has now.....

All I can say is Welcome

What model of Thinkpad? I'm another one considering jumping since the announcement. :(

What do you wish you had?

I got myself a t460, 16 gig of ram, SSD. The two batteries were a big draw. I don't mind it being a little thicker. I don't really have a desire to put my laptop in a envelope that often :|

I don't really wish I had anything more, its enough and more importantly is fairly easy to upgrade stuff on board if need be.

I almost bought a MBP a couple of months ago, but stayed with Linux at the last minute. I ended up getting a ThinkPad T460 too.

It was USD $1,900 including tax and a four-year, next-day, at-home support plan where they will drive to your house and do things like replace the motherboard with no questions asked.

It runs Ubuntu 16.04 without problems. 24 Gb of RAM. 500 Gb SSD. Matte screen (less glare). Three touchpad buttons, which are good for copy/paste in Linux. I can set it up with 10 virtual desktops and minimal animation. Great keyboard. 10+ hours of actual battery life (18 hours advertised).

It was about $1,000 cheaper than a MBP that had less RAM and lower specs, except for the screen resolution. For programming, the 1920x1080 screen on the ThinkPad is enough.

It's the same operating system as my servers, so I can SSH into the servers and be in essentially the same environment that I use on the laptop.

I'm very happy with it.

I use Ubuntu on my PC daily and sometimes also mac for Xcode. But I don't see new macs as disappoinment. Actually find them pretty cool. Only missing magsafe. Some people see 16GB limit as a bummer. On my MB Air I have only 4 gigs and still can do serious development. Do you guys run kubernetes on it, or what for you need more memory on a laptop? To be cool?

I'm running a lot of tools in parallel and you need memory especially when you're doing memory tracing and debugging, which is kind of obvious. I mean, when you load 4 GB memory dumps, you tend to run out of memory pretty fast ;-) Couple this with a compiler that watches for file changes and constantly recompiles stuff in the background, runs tests and so on and with a full fledged IDE, like IntelliJ IDEA, with a browser loaded with stuff and things get painful.

I'm working on a MacBook Pro with 8 GB of RAM and it constantly swaps to disk. Thank heavens I have an SSD, because otherwise it would have been unusable.

As to your response, dude, this attitude of "you're holding it wrong" is iconic of Apple. I mean I don't know what people are talking about, as Steve's spirit is very much alive at Apple and within its user base and I never liked it.

> I'm working on a MacBook Pro with 8 GB of RAM and it constantly swaps to disk. Thank heavens I have an SSD, because otherwise it would have been unusable.

Don't get me wrong, but if you're doing this kind of serious development, perhaps a laptop isn't the best choice? The iMac 5K takes 64GB these days.

Perhaps I'm just too old and can't see why a laptop is a superior development environment compared to a desktop with decent 27" display, mouse and keyboard... Are you traveling much?

Because then I'd have to buy an iMac 5K for home and one for the office. And sync all my files and preferences between the two.

Or, you could buy a beefy desktop at work and use Apple Remote Desktop / VNC on your laptop at home.

If you've ever used Remote Desktop / VNC, you know that it just doesn't work. The latency of the network communication is too great within your own local network over Wifi, enough as to be a pain in the ass for work, let alone when communicating over the Internet. And you'd better not be on a metered Internet connection, because these high-resolution screens will produce data like crazy.

I know it sounds cool in theory, but it just doesn't work, at all. Basically Remote Desktop / VNC is only useful for short sessions and/or debugging, not for work, unless you're in text mode with SSH, vim, screen, tools like that ;-)

>If you've ever used Remote Desktop / VNC, you know that it just doesn't work

I wrote a DOS VNC client in 1999 for my ThinkPad 720 (to access my Sun workstation at work from home), so my mileage varies. ;-)

We had lower screen resolutions and color depths then, but also slower connections. I've used VNC quite a bit over the years but admittedly, for working from home I used ssh (because it was sufficient and I use vi). FWIW, practicality greatly depends on your type of work. Typing text in an IDE and running the occasional debug session should be no problem due to the way screen updates are transmitted, anything graphics-heavy will be frustrating.

Personally I have two development 'modes', depending on what kind of project I'm working on. One which I can easily do on something like an MBA with 4 GB of RAM and one which I really want at least 32 GB of RAM and decent Nvidia card. The new MBP falls in between these two modes and as such I can't see the niche it would fill for me.

Wow, reading your comment was just like reading my own words. I am exactly same (minus Nvidia part because I don't do intensive gpu stuff).

MacBook air is my favorite device. Giving presentation, developing small apps while giving presentation, pair it with 32gb i7 fedora desktop for serious projects. This combination is my favorite.

Now it seems they are discontinuing MacBook air , I will be happy with my 8gb air version for next 3-4 year. But after that I don't know what can come close to replacing it. Maybe surface nook.

The new MBP 13" is smaller than the Air, so the only issue is the price?

Although I didn't know that and it is wonderful, but yes price is a little bit annoying. MacBook air was perfect for me.

Sorry for a little bit typo. I meant surface the tablet ones.not book.(book is so pricey)

Containers only get you so far. Windows e.g. tends to be a real memory hog, especially older versions (Windows Update alone can need 4+ GB RAM… per VM).

And if you can't shove everything into The Cloud® because your country is lagging behind on decent internet connections and 1 MBit uplink is the best you can get… well.

People that need more memory are most likely to be the ones commenting regarding memory. I suspect that the majority of developers aren't going to need more memory, at least not for 99% of their job.

Also no doubt people want a bump on the specs from the last generation, even if it isn't needed.

Also if you buy now, you want your MBP to last a while, 16GB is the new 8GB - it's fine now, but it may hit a limit in a handful of years.

Yeah, I kinda agree. But it really depends on use case though. I do data analysis and I have a beefy server that I log on to for heavy duty tasks, so I'll probably not use my macbook for anything that requires more than 16gb.

I have 32 GB of RAM on my main computer and that actually saves me from having multiple computers as I use a couple of VM's (at least one running all the time) and the typical memory usage is between 18 and 28 GB. I could probably live with 24 GB most of the time, but not with 16 GB or less. I have 8 GB on my laptop in the office and I use it only for email and browsing and to remote desktop to bigger boxes. But my laptop does not have "Pro" in the name and it's dirt cheap.

Chrome alone takes 12G currently. I have multiple opened Chrome windows with about a dozen tabs each. One window for youtube and other sites that tend to make sounds, one for each client project I'm currently working on, and one for each personal project.

Filling up 16G is pretty easy if you seldomly shut down the PC.

I never managed to open that much tabs, maybe I am doing something wrong.

Having a single GUI-supported VM with 4 gigs is a no-go. You must also use a very light IDE, vim/Sublime/etc.

I'd like to run cloudera on it :)

> Do you guys run kubernetes on it, or why you need more memory?

Yes we do. Though 16GB is well enough for that.

It depends what do you run in your pods.

There's a significant speed increase going from 4GB to 8GB RAM.

After days of thinking about it, I think I know where my disappointment stems from.

I'm not disappointed with the new MBP, I'm disappointed that for the first time in my life 4 years have passed and I can't buy a significantly better machine than my old one. My old MBP has 16gb ram, 256gb SSD, 2.3Ghz quad core (i7). A new MBP would be the same with maybe a slightly faster RAM and a bit faster, but mostly just less hungry CPU architecture.

The GPU is marginally better but there's only so much you can shove in a laptop. Modern GPU monsters are as big as my whole computer.

When I look around for a better laptop (price/performance/weight/battery/everything) I can't find one.

That's what I'm disappointed about.

Desktops are in the same boat. I've been looking around to replace my SEVEN year old desktop. CPU performance, going by PassMark score, looks to be about twice as fast now as mine.

Twice the speed is a nice upgrade, but only doubling the speed over seven years? I think about a seven year span like 1994-2001 and going from a 486 DX to a Pentium 4 would have been a whole different story.

I understand that disappointment, but it is inevitable with two trends: the end of Moore's law for CPUs and the fact that four year-old specs are good for the bulk of users doesn't help to drive prices down.

The primary thing that has been improving since 2012 is the death of spinning platters across the boards (though a lot of sub-$1000 laptops still seem to have them) and larger SSDs in base models.

Of course, for some scenarios newer generation CPUs help tremendously. E.g. AVX2 can be a large improvement if your work relies a lot on SIMD instructions.

Alas my biggest problem is that Chrome acts funny with 50+ tabs across 4+ windows (ram), that compiling JavaScript is slow (cpu) and that my computer grinds to a halt when I'm livecoding (gpu rendering currently done by cpu instead).

So yeah ... I hit all the things that aren't likely to improve soon.

It's even more true for the Air, which is pretty much identical. I bought a 4/128/i5 machine in 2011 and I'm thinking of buying basically the same machine again. A bit faster RAM/disk/CPU/USB, sure, but everything else remains unchanged. It's a shame they're likely to discontinue this, because it's a magnificent machine for ~£1000. It's held on like a charm, it has most of the ports one needs - all it could use is a USB-C in place one of the USBs, drop the charging port and you can release it again. Without this, Apple won't have an all-around entry-level laptop, they will have the tiny, port stripped 12" and then a £1500 Pro.

There's a reason the 13" Air was the laptop to buy five years ago. I'd be sad to see it go. Unless Apple manages to release a 13" laptop closer to the £1000 mark, I don't know what I'll buy when my trusty old one stops operating. Perhaps you could drop the retina screen and the dedicated graphics card? Reuse the shell, change the internals. Please.

> There's a reason the 13" Air was the laptop to buy five years ago.

I have a 2011 MBA (probably the same as yours - MC965D/A w. DE keyboard) and it has its problems: very noisy fan and lackluster display (low resolution). I'd purchase a 12" MacBook instead today.

Same here, I am not going to buy the 2016 model of MBP since it does not offer anything to __me__ over my current one (MacBook Pro (Retina, 13-inch, Early 2015)).

Slightly off topic but new models from Apple tend have serious issues in terms of reliability. Our office has many new MB Airs and they regularly freeze up with the latest macOS and only power off & power on helps. Another disappointment is the new iPhone 7, not having audio jack, offering zero alternatives to audiofile users to listen to lossless audio on their phone (using the external DAC is a joke). I am not sure where Apple is headed nowadays but it seems it is not for me anymore. I am going to use iPhone 6s until it breaks down and move over to a different platform. If Apple does not get their shit together with MPB I will do the same as well.


This hits the nail on the head. Most complains are about how cpu performance is stalling.

Apple is not competing against bulky, gamer-style laptops. For a thin laptop, the new mbp is extremely powerful.

Even if the fully upgraded, 15 inches mbp is sold at an astonishing €4999. Well, it's company's expense, right? :)

They could stick a GTX 1060 in there, like Razer has in their Blade 15. But that, along with the 32gb ram option, would probably result in a slightly thicker laptop with poorer battery life.

But that makes me wonder: why didn't they make the 12" macbook a macbook air, make the new 13" and 15" macbooks, and then come out with the slightly thicker, more powerful pro 15"... and maybe 13"

I just wish adobe would get their act together and release photoshop and friends for linux.

I just wish somebody would make a replacement that made everybody want to switch away from Photoshop and all the other Adobe products and onto the replacement, and be satisfied with it.

Adobe is too comfortable. They have no reason to fix their software which is basically some of the worst software I have tried to use professionally. It's so bad that the reason I don't use Lightroom and Photoshop is not because of the subscription based pricing of Adobe CC, but because that even though Lightroom and Photoshop is more powerful than say Pixelmator, Gimp, Inkscape, Sketch, (Apple) Photos, Affinity Photos, and what have we, the rest of the software - and by that I mean the windows, the buttons, the settings, basically the UI and UX - everything except for the actual algorithms that alters your photos/videos/graphics - is awful. Complete shit. Oh, and don't get me started on the the Adobe update thing that sits and runs in the background of your Mac constantly which you have to install Photoshop and the rest of the family through.

Until a real contender threatens Adobe, they won't do anything about it because right now they can ship complete bullshit that runs on both Mac and Windows and make a lot of money doing that terrible job, which satisfies them because they can keep more money themself instead of on people that could make their products better.

Please, Adobe, make your software great again, and make it run on all the platforms. Right now it's utter crap. Fix it!

Actually Adobe's algorithms are substandard as well. For example, rezising algorithms are few and naive. Also, last I checked the higher bit depths don't work as well as 8bpc - only a limited subset of operations work. Almost the entirety of it is fool's gold.

That might be true. I dunno. Its just what I have understood from professionals that won't switch. If that is neither the case, well then I don't know why they are still hanging around. Might be UI and shortcuts familiarity, I guess.

It's complicated and interesting. Familiarity yes; Also I guess that people don't know that they can expect better. And maybe also that it is a whole workflow.

I've switched to pixelmator and affinity designer and I havent looked back.

I use Pixelmator, Sketch and Photos. It works well for me. What I hear from graphics designers and photographers though is that they are not powerful enough, and to get them to switch requires more powerful features.

Until the alternatives to Adobe products satisfies the professionals, Adobe will not have any reason to wipe up their crapware and instead release quality software, unfortunately.

> I just wish adobe would get their act together and release photoshop and friends for linux.

Never going to happen, there is no lucrative market on Linux for these kind of tools, Adobe isn't going invest millions for a handful of potential users. Even smaller players don't bother with Linux. MacOS is still where the money is for tools for creatives.

It also doesn't help that Linux is very fragmented. Supporting Linux means that you have to support your application for many different desktop environments, glibc versions, kernel versions, etc. They could require, say Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7 and the latest Ubuntu LTS, but there would still be a large number of support requests from people who run some distribution forked from Ubuntu, etc.

Another problem is that a lot of Linux-related communities are very hostile towards proprietary software, let alone proprietary software with DRM that requires a subscription. So, they will run into anything from unwillingness to help with problems in base libraries to people who will sue them to show that they violated the GPL in some way.

Adobe will not go there unless they absolutely have to.

> It also doesn't help that Linux is very fragmented. Supporting Linux means that you have to support your application for many different desktop environments, glibc versions, kernel versions, etc.

This is often said, but rarely true; if you standardise on the latest Ubuntu LTS for example, other distros will be able to provide packages to make the app work there, see i.e. Steam or Swift.

> Another problem is that a lot of Linux-related communities are very hostile towards proprietary software, let alone proprietary software with DRM that requires a subscription. So, they will run into anything from unwillingness to help with problems in base libraries to people who will sue them to show that they violated the GPL in some way.

Again, not really true, see i.e. JetBrains, which is rather popular on Linux. Also the smear campaign around the GPL is getting rather old; it's simple, adhere to the license and you'll be fine. Adobe, Microsoft etc. also requires you to adhere to their license. Why is that fine, but complying with the GPL as per wishes of an author of software you're making use of, why is that not fine?

> Another problem is that a lot of Linux-related communities are very hostile towards proprietary software, let alone proprietary software with DRM that requires a subscription. So, they will run into anything from unwillingness to help with problems in base libraries to people who will sue them to show that they violated the GPL in some way.

DRM is in it self hostile to the user. Never seen anyone against subscription based software or willingness to pay for good software in those Linux-related communities that you describe. If anything, in those communities people wouldn't pirate you're software as much as Windowse users. In my experience Linux users are more understanding that making good software is hard work and they appreciate it more.

Why is okay for Adobe suing people for license violation and not vice versa?

I'm still not sure what's keeping them, do they think it's a waste of time or too little ROI?

Have you tried to calibrate a color profile on Xorg?

My friend uses Adobe products with WINE. Some plugins don't work but otherwise usable.

I think the point is that you can get hardware which is cheaper, faster and better. To give one example:

http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-systems/razer-blade-stealth $US999 with QHD + touch, 128GB SSD, Intel 620, 1.3kg http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-systems/razer-blade $2099 with QHD + touch, 256GB SSD, nVidia 1060, 1.9kg

Plus Thunderbolt 3, USB 3.0, HDMI.

And a priceless escape key.

IBM's much-talked about TCO argument for Macs also holds true for individuals IMHO :

- Don't just look at the initial outlay that gets you on the Apple ladder : Macs also have a much, much better resale value than PCs, even years later. It's incremental and relatively painless if you upgrade regularly.

- You're a human, your peace of mind matters and your time isn't free. Buy stuff that brings you joy or at a minimum, stuff that doesn't feel like death by a thousand cuts day after day. And you might not recognize that before you've tried a Mac, seriously (I used to be a hardcore desktop Linux guy until 2004)

As someone who briefly lost faith in Apple last year, then went ahead and built a Hackintosh ("why not?"), I can't stress the second point nearly enough.

My high end 32GB 4Ghz Core i7 box with Thunderbolt and a 32" screen cost me about 25% less than a top of the line iMac that satisfies the same use cases. Great.

The money I saved is roughly what I make in 1-2 days, but I've spent at least a dozen evenings so far researching / troubleshooting / preparing for OS upgrades. Plus I need to reboot the box once after each cold boot before it will see my TB devices and I can play music on my audio interface. Great. Not to mention the floor/desk space compared to an iMac.

The tinkering was fun at times, I don't completely regret trying, but frankly life is too short : guess who's going back to the Mac next time ?

I think your "death by a thousand cuts" comment really resonates with me; but it is a point against MacOS (and Windows!), not for.

Yes, most things "just work". But if something just doesn't quite work in the way you want it to, you often have to move heaven and earth to hack around the problem, maybe even "accepting" that there's nothing you can do, and constantly suffer that irritation every time you butt up against it.

Personally, I have always preferred having my environment "just-so". After suffering constant little niggles when I'm forced to use MacOS or Windows, it's wonderfully refreshing to come home to my configured linux system.

I just made my first real jump into CentOS with Gnome on an X1 Carbon Thinkpad from MacOS.

It was super easy to install, took less than an hour, and it included the window manager with the install package. I have had no problems at all. ( I first tried the KDE window manager but found Gnome less buggy IMO)

Highly recommend it. Especially with this addon I found called conky which provides real time hardware stats.


That's a cool conky setup, do you have any files available publicly to checkout?

Long-time Ubuntu fan here, been using Ubuntu as my desktop of choice since 2005, and even I think this reads like advertorial for System76.

BTW, if you do this move, give Xubuntu a go. Ever since Unity and GNOME 3, XFCE has managed the elusive trick of not fucking up and not inflicting an exercise in gratuitous architecture astronautics on the end user. You might think that sounds easy and straightforward not to do, but evidently it's eluded all of KDE, GNOME and Canonical.

I second this. I have switched from Windows 7 to Xubuntu and have never looked back. It runs smoothly on a X61 IBM Notebook with 4 GB RAM. If I have to use an expensive software suite that is only available on Windows/MacOS, I Switch to virtualized Windows 7 mashine.

In my experience, Wine is always worth trying first. Definitely good enough for quite a lot of production work with that one obscure Windows binary you absolutely need, in most cases.

Alternatively, I headed to System76 and configured its 15-inch Oryx Pro. I closely matched the MacBook Pro specs, with a Quad-core Sklyake i7 and NVMe 256GB SSD. Instead of 16GB of RAM as found on the Apple, I configured with 32GB (you can go up to 64GB if needed). By default, it comes with a 6GB Nvidia GTX 1060. The price? Less than $2,000! In other words, the System76 machine with much better specs is less expensive than Apple's.

Of course, this is quite disingenuous, because it elides a lot of other aspects:

* The Oryx Pro is 0.7kg heavier (it's almost a MacBook 12" heavier).

* Depending on the model 0.9 to 1.3cm thicker. It's also wider and deeper.

* The new MacBook Pro has a wide gamut display. The Oryx Pro doesn't. Moreover the Oryx Pro does not have a retina display (but 1920 × 1080).

* Apparently, the battery life of an Oryx Pro is about 2 hours [1]. The MacBook Pro lasts 10 hour during active use. I expect that for most laptop users a two hour battery life is a deal-breaker.

* The new MacBook Pro has the Touch Bar, which may be a nice feature (it's too early to tell) and definitely adds a lot of cost to the BOM.

Hardware is not only about the CPU/GPU/Memory. We could produce 5kg laptops with nVidia Teslas and server-grade Xeon CPUs. It could possibly be done cheaper than the highest spec'ed MacBook Pro. But as a laptop it would be pretty useless to almost anyone.

Moreover, for the regular MacBook user (as opposed to the tech crowd) I expect that good Chromebooks are a far more serious threat than Ubuntu or System 76.

[1] http://betanews.com/2015/12/29/system76-oryx-pro-ubuntu-linu...

I built my own last time I bought and the other thing you can't test is how noisy they are.

My laptop occasionally sounds like a plane taking off.

The mentioned Oryp2 notebook looks interesting. Though, I would buy a 12-14" notebook (<2kg) with mate display. I wish Apple or Lenovo would get their act together and release good notebooks for actual work like the old T410/X210 or older MacBookPro (pre retina) with a good keyboard (+ traditional IBM PC layout with grouped keys). What we get nowadays is shit made by people who don't understand what they are doing.

Apart from the missing ESC (yes I am too a VI/M user) key I am not sure what else do you want from a mobile computer - apart from better battery of course and more energy efficiency.

I do stuff on Unreal occasionally and for that I have a dedicated computer that is good enough to handle the IDE. Can I run this on MacPro from 2013 - sure - but the experience is not great and I doubt there is any laptop out there that will ever be good enough in terms of energy efficiency, battery life and portability to handle Unreal in all of its glory.

Yes the new MacPros are on par with the last generation but not so much. We have pretty performant hardware that sits mostly underutilized. As soon as you start pumping code on a low-performant microcontroller you will know what I mean. Previous generation of programmers were doing exactly this - making the best of the hardware that was available to them.

Has anyone else used machines by System76? It sounds great, but I wonder if this video is just marketing.

It's marketing. Blatant ad. System76 had build quality issues in the past; no idea if they've fixed their issues in the present.

Nope, but used some other Clevo (the OEM that S76 gets their laptops from) laptops. They're fine. Decent specs, decent performance, but build quality is not always great and battery life is generally pretty bad.

Why not go with the "new" Razer blade[0]? Seems like a good fork of the MBP.

0: http://www.razerzone.com/gb-en/gaming-systems/razer-blade

Same cpu, same ram, same number of ports, less storage options and half the battery life.

Good question!

The difference is an awesome GPU (the GTX 1060) and at an affordable price. For people who wanted that I think it's a great option. Even the design looks like a MacBook Pro.

If you don't want that much graphic power the Stealth version is the way to go. Way cheaper and with 9 to 10 hours of battery.

I start to really like Razor here and I may buy one rather than the new MacBook. The ice on the cake with these 2 laptops is the external GPU they do, the Razor Core, giving you all the power of a desktop PC at home while using the same computer. No need to buy a laptop And a desktop for home. No need to do transfer and sync all the time. Just your laptop and the Core.

The new ones will have the 7th gen CPU from what I understand. For example, a new review on the stealth variant[0].

You can add more RAM, you can get a choice of screens ( 1080p or UHD ) you get a proper GPU ( if you want ) and you pay less. And you can use Windows or Linux. Or both.

All I want to know is the build quality, but I cannot find any store to try them at.

0: http://4k.com/laptop/new-razer-blade-stealth-ultrabook-revie...

I recently updated and played with Ubuntu 16.04 on my 2013 Dell XPS 13. Everything worked surprisingly well.

Two finger scroll, tap to click etc. It is fast and smooth.

However, I don't need 32GB RAM enough for that to be a deciding factor between eg. a Dell XPS 15 and the new MBP 15".

Unfortunately this is just an ad. I think gaming on Linux will come from Valve (Steam).

The missing piece is widespread Vulkan support. That will turn the tides in favor of Linux.

Ubuntu on Windows in Insider Preview is really usable. I find experience much better than in the macOS regarding the shell

> Ubuntu on Windows in Insider Preview is really usable.

For anyone trying this, remember to enable QuickEdit Mode under the command prompt's properties.

I don't recall what all the defaults were, but I do have everything checked now (except use Legacy Mode)

Alternatively to window's cmd prompt: https://conemu.github.io/en/BashOnWindows.html

There is only one thing that keeps people from jumping platform... The software they need to run. That's the true hurdle from switching from mac/pc to pc/mac to linux/bsd.

Imagine a world where you could truly chose any OS and run your favourite/needed software on it. I'd be on linux or bsd too.

If their work can be done with tools available in Ubuntu Linux, they surely weren't Apple loyalists.

How does installing Ubuntu on it fix the hardware?

why not install crouton on a chromebook, and for games install steam on the chromebook and get a windows gaming pc to do home streaming?

you could also install xen so both your home-ci/compilation beast and games os is available at all times.

But the screen resolution ...

SystemWho? That MacBook Pro is worth every penny. And 2% of people may need something more powerful

systemwho? Garbage article and promotion for systemwho

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