Czech Republic a NATO Ally: Check!
Computer Crime Illegal In Czech Republic by Czech Law: Check!
Computer Crime Illegal In European Union: Check!
Bilateral Extradition Treaty Present Between US and Czech Republic: Check!
European Union Recognizes Validity Of Bilateral Extradition Treaties With The US: Check!
I am not clear on the basis of Russia's expectation that they're going to get their hacker back soon.
I recommend to read the profile published by Guardian last year on Czech president Milos Zeman.
Now they have the choice between aggravating the US or Russia. Ahh, good old times...
I was a tourist; I'm not disputing what you said.
This is bullshit. Yes there are some people who praise him as a hero, and quite a number of those who does not see him as a hero, but does not view him as a murderous dictator either - it's more like "yes, he did horrible thing we should remember through our lifes, but he did what was necessary for the country". This view is very debatable\questionable, but still has it's right to be.
Most of the people view him just a historical figure without giving in to some deeper thought. Same as for Ivan IV The Terrible, or Peter I The Great (yes, he did much for the country and basically made it up to european standarts, but still was what you'd call a bloody dictator)
>The actions of USSR in Prague are viewed in a positive light
Same as above - this can be applied to 10-15% of population at most.
Every action has a reaction.
That expectation probably has nothing to do with the law or legal means.
Imagine if Russia captured US citizen in Argentina saying he is American hacker who they think hacked Russian servers, I can imagine the outrage of the US and its European puppets.
Also nytimes is incredibly biased against Russia, I would not trust a single word it says.
Would you like me to add a final line: "Dude is convicted of hacking in US: NO CHECK!"? I can, if you think that clears anything up.
Do you want to dispute any of them? Do you believe the Czech Republic isn't an EU/NATO member, as asserted with the "check"s?
Guilt or innocence is determined at trial after extradition; guilt isn't a question to be resolved to determine whether one is a subject to extradition.
It's understood the trial ultimately determines the person's fate but it does seem like more proof or evidence should be made public before taking a rather rather drastic action like this. They don't have to show their whole hand, but something that is convincing enough that they have the right guy.
Realize that's not how extradition works it's just it does seem like a raw deal that flies in the face of the U.S. Justice system ideals
I'm also not sure how bringing suspects to trial in the US flies in the face of US justice system ideals.
All we have to confirm the story is political posturing from two global superpowers over an arrest in a third country. This sounds like the opening act of a cold war era political struggle. War by proxy, etc.
Can we please not repeat that chapter in history?
Or, if we're going to do so, at least not use hackers as the pawns in this sick game? I'd appreciate at least that much.
So maybe he just prefers living in Czech Rep.?
If history must repeat, I'd rather not have the world's hackers get dragged into the struggle. I hate politics in my technology, dammit.
Further political strife and possibly even all-out war, especially if warmer heads get elected.
> He was arrested by the FBI, not rendered by the CIA. He's being charged with a crime. It's a crime that both the Czech Republic and the US have recognized as a crime for a long time.
Is he going to be prosecuted in the Czech Republic and (if the prosecution is successful) sentenced to a prison term in the Czech Republic, guaranteed, without any possibility of extradition to US or Russia?
I'm not sure what's more difficult to follow here? I'm not predicting a specific outcome (or worse, detailing some conspiracy theory); I'm just stating that there's a significant potential for bad things to follow this news and expressing my dislike for the general theme of it all.
That was the point of the checklist I provided upthread.
Unless treaties give jurisdiction to laughable U.S. military courts, which is often the case.
What might be new-ish (last 30 years) are crimes you can commit against a foreign state without setting foot on their soil. But I doubt computer crimes set the precedent there; I'm guessing if we look, we'll find some financial crime, or some organized crime, that took place in the middle of the 20th century and created the same fact pattern.
Remember as well that the US isn't the only country that extradites people, so we'll probably have a lot of data to look through for examples!
Linkedin maybe? This stirred up controversy in the US gov where they might have invested resources in pursuing the attacker: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_LinkedIn_hack
Yahoo's discovery of the big intrusion recently was from 2012 but that might have been too recent?
Also Dropbox was hacked in 2012.
UPD "Suspect believed to be tied to massive LinkedIn hack arrested in Prague, sources say; U.S. officials hope to extradite him to U.S."
“Following the 2012 breach of LinkedIn member information, we have remained actively involved with the FBI’s case to pursue those responsible,” a LinkedIn spokesperson told Motherboard in an email. “We are thankful for the hardwork and dedication of the FBI in its efforts to locate and capture the parties believed to be responsible for this criminal activity.”
Obviously this person's rights for a fair trial are violated.
If he is a Russian citizen, shouldn't he be judged in Russia?
Or should we apply the same rules to American citizens? For example, everyone working is NSA or its contractors can probably be prosecuted for taking part in a conspiracy to break into computer systems and intercepting private communications. Should muslim countries arrest any US tourist that have earlier posted pictures with Allah in Facebook and extradite them to Iran for fair trial by Sharia law? And what about people who develop software to bypass Great Chinese Firewall? Should they be extradited to China? US wanted to get Julian Assange, should not China get its enemies too?
Also, he was arrested in the Czech Republic, not Russia. The Czech Republic has an extradition treaty with the US that existed long before the Internet did. This isn't rocket appliances, it's how our world's nation state system works. Sure, he probably shouldn't get 20 years and should receive competent legal representation. But to allow anyone to hack computer systems in the US because that person is not a US citizen and not in the US is borderline laughable.
Maybe there should be some international agreements on how to deal with such cross-border crimes but they should be discussed and agreed upon by many countries.
And I don't like this anyway. I would rather prefer having american or russian systems disconnected from other countries than extraditing people into a foreign country to judge them by foreign laws.
But they can. They need preexisting extradition agreements and it's all good. And the system isn't asymmetric. By their nature extradition agreements are bilateral and therefore symmetric.
How has Russia handled extradition requests from the UK for Litvinenko's accused murderers? That strikes me as a display of power by Russia. Would you agree?
> Maybe there should be some international agreements on how to deal with such cross-border crimes but they should be discussed and agreed upon by many countries.
They're called bilateral extradition treaties. That's exactly what's being leveraged here.
> I would rather prefer having american or russian systems disconnected from other countries than extraditing people into a foreign country to judge them by foreign laws.
And I would rather people not hack systems for financial gain. I'd also like daily rainbows and a unicorn to ride to and from work.
> But they can. They need preexisting extradition agreements and it's all good.
Then let's wait to see whether muslim countries can make such treaties and start judging westerners posting inappropriate jokes about Allah on Facebook. Such practice will just lead to a situation when international travel will become too dangerous and you'll have to consult a lawyer before going abroad.
If you don't know if they tried then why even bring it up, especially since Litvinenko was killed by Russian Intelligence? Speaking of which, how do you feel about a Russian citizen being murdered by other Russian citizens in a foreign country? Does that concern you? Isn't THAT wrong? Obviously this person's rights for a fair trial was violated. As he was a Russian citizen, shouldn't he be judged in Russia instead of being murdered by the state?
NSA does hacking every day so can other countries extradite and prosecute its employees?
The lack of details and the Russian response just sounds fishy to me.
History has taught us that it is very hard to pull the truth out of Russian response. You have to observe what they are doing and not what they are saying.
So this by itself does not conclude anything. Also not the opposite, or nothing about the other state level actors.
You have to observer what the US does and not what they say.
U.S. PR efforts strike me as ham-fisted and in reaction to current events. Checkers vs chess is the metaphor I'm trying to express.
An observer can glean more information from a U.S. government press statement than a Russian one.
via http://www.currenttime.tv/a/russian-hackers-instagram/280642... (in Russian)
That's two high-profile "info criminals" in a row given the secret arrest treatment.
I can't say I'm a fan.
There are so far as I know no secret indictments, and "secrecy" does not allow law enforcement to ignore Habeas in the US.
> “We insist that the detained Russian citizen should be transferred to Russia,”
Released or transferred to Russia? And why is the speculation from Janda there - he is no security expert? Where do the suggestions there is a link to DNC hack come from? He could easily be just running a botnet, blackmailing or a thousand other things... Really RT-level article here
you probably doesn't know much about FSB and Russia in general.
just for fun, FSB academy "graduation ceremony" this year :
Also, not sure if all of this recent hacking is in fact leaking by persons within affected organisations. In the case of the DNC hack, I think it quite plausible to be a disgruntled employee.
They are perfectly comparable.
I guess that's Hitler, Stalin and Churchill then.
1. The Bengal famine claimed between 1.5-4m lives
Hitler never killed anyone - If you're talking about holding the gun. Hilter still had blood on his hands, and Stalin had more.
I can imagine this going like this:
1. They extradite this guy to the USA.
2. They indict him for hacking, try him, and find him guilty.
3. He serves 4.3 years in federal prison.
4. He is released, returns to Russia, and we never hear about him again.
Did not US said that Iraq had a weapon of mass destruction and invaded them with a huge PR campaign?
And the proof is?
It's not like such things haven't happened before.
(There is a whole other can of worms regarding what counts as "hacking" and what doesn't, but without knowing what the "hacker" actually did we can't really discuss it in this case)