I suspect this author reads HN :) If anyone was curious, the thread where Saguaro wood's solid density was determined can be found here:
> NEW: The guesstimate of 300 kg/m^3 for Saguaro density in the V2 raws was probably wrong. I have a 6g piece of Saguaro wood with a volume of approximately 14 cm^3, which indicates that the density of Saguaro wood is approximately 430 kg/m^3. This number appears very reasonable when compared to all the other densities I have researched. I have more ~1 ft pieces of Saguaro rib wood than I know what to do with right now and I'm more than willing to ship them to people willing to do further research on the matter, or those who wish to duplicate my experiments.
In fact, there are two approximately 1" saguaro wood cubes sitting on my desk directly in front of me at this very moment.
Here's an example of a story that happened to me. https://www.reddit.com/r/dwarffortress/comments/1mb0cw/the_s... Note: this story is in NO way embellished by me. Everything described there was actually fully simulated within the game.
My favorite horrible moment playing dwarf fortress came one day when one of my dwarves was unable to find a required bit of silk to finish the artifact she had swimming in her head.
She went crazy, presumably from the frustration, and took it out on a dwarf near her in a dining room. Soon thereafter my happy fort of approximately 100 dwarves was down to 10 or 12 dwarves, only 2 unwounded. There were bodies everywhere. Blood was tracking through the fortress.
Dwarves were wandering around, then seeing bodies, vomiting, going crazy, attacking each-other. It was terrible.
Long story short, we ended up with two battle-scarred, insane but deadened dwarves and a beautiful fortress for them to share. Cleaning the bodies out took both of them a couple of years. They'd haul for a while, stop to vomit, then keep hauling. Every so often at first immigrants would show up, and the entire group would go crazy looking at the carnage, and we'd be back down to my two dwarves.
I was trying to imagine what they might want or feel after all that, and decided it was likely they would have fixated on something, so they pulled all the gold and gems into a little room and made a throne room. The tougher dwarf was detailed to clean and haul bodies and bones, the other one just sat in his throne room, brooding.
Finally the tougher one died; he had some sort of minor injury I hadn't noticed, and we were down to one.
I can't remember exactly what happened, but I think that one was on his way to clean something up as the sole surviver, got too close to the river, and that, as they say was that. He drowned horribly, mercifully.
I occasionally think about the two dwarves just cleaning up the castle, slowly going insane, and when I do, I appreciate Toady's work, and I laugh. Then I feel guilty.
Reading this article and all these comments makes me want to get back into DF. I just hope I remember how to play. :p
Since then, I lost the link and forgot the terms to search for it! I'm so glad you reposted it. =)
If anyone is interested in the game, I recommend grabbing the Lazy Newb Pack which comes with a few utilities that will make your experience slightly less infuriating.
It's like the Australian Outback, you hear so many terrifying stories that you just assume every single thing in that place wants to kill you, but plenty of things live there.
Just like in Eve, your life in space will be pretty standard fare 99% of the time, even moving out to nullsec can be actually quite a... dare I say, mundane affair.
But it's that 1%... oh man, that 1%. The feuds, the rivalries, the deception, the betrayal.
It's almost like CCP are playing a cosmic version of Dwarf Fortress and the capsuleers are their dwarves.
Having lived a large proportion of my life in what would be described as rural Australia, if not quite the Outback, I can't really think of anything that is actively trying to kill people.
People die because they were unlucky (trod on a poisonous snake perhaps) or they were stupid (traveling somewhere without adequate water and/or informing others of their whereabouts).
Snakes aren't actually trying to kill you, nor spiders, nor dingoes (unless you're a really small baby maybe), nor feral camels, nor kangaroos, nor the emus. The only think I can think of that maybe actively wants to kill you are the crocs, because they're top predator and have to eat. Also the vast majority of human deaths from croc attacks are also down to stupidity (swimming at night in a known crocodile area, for example). Even so, the crocs are in the north and I wouldn't necessarily call that the Outback either.
Anyway, genuinely curious about the terrifying stories and all the things trying to kill humans.
[... proceeds to list a bunch of animals that kill people ...]
Upon further reflection, I only played both for the level of suffering involved in each. DF has the mantra "loosing is fun" and I played eve that same way.
Perversely, it makes life / things / tasks less valuable. I used the example "there's only so much you'll do for one dwarf who might be killed by its own stupidity" vs "there's almost nothing a lot of people wouldn't do to acquire a for-the-rest-of-time legendary in WoW."
This is my current project: https://www.reddit.com/r/dwarffortress/comments/4n6yun/ochre...
The first stage was simply to dig out a big hollow cavern, with walkways and a central pillar of stairs. A chap has given me an idea about a bridge over the volcano and I think I will have a drawbridge block off the entrance once the invaders are quite close, and then marksdwarves can shoot down on them. We expect people to dodge off and into the magma.
I play MasterworkDF, which adds a number of things such as guilds and castes, but LNP is a good place to start.
For anyone who is a bit scared by it, just persevere. Start simple. Seven dwarves. Dig a hole in the ground. Start a mushroom farm. Brew some wine. Get a carpenters workshop. Make some beds. And barrels. And take it from there.
It'll be worth it.
I'd figure out how to get one aspect working (starting with the farming -> food/booze aspect), then something Fun would happen. I'd start a new game, figure out how to avoid that type of Fun, then get clobbered by another sort :D
N.B. this was a 3D predecessor to DF.
I am glad that it exists, though. I want to live in the kind of world where two brothers are happy to devote the majority of their life to a project like this.
Maybe it's the same impulse that drove the Voynich manuscript's creation.
Believe it or not once you "get" the interface it's really not all that bad. There's one or two incredibly annoying intracacies - but get the lazy newb pack with dwarf therapist and you'll be in for an easier time.
I haven't really played the game itself for a while now, but I still love reading the stories of others playing in it.
Don't feel ashamed to look up how to do the game. There is a regularity, but the learning curve is very high. I think it's easier to think of DF like Blender more than like Sim City. You're using a "professional-quality" dwarf simulation tool, some manual reading is required.
I think DF is like Magic The Gathering in a way: Half of the fun is absorbing the mechanics and idiosynradicies of the game. It's fine not to like it, too.
Briefly, it's a very experienced DF player trying to conquer a frozen volcano who has written up his exploits in narrative form. Fun read and will give you a good idea of what DF is allabout.
It takes a year to build a wooden hall large enough for most of the workshops, on one side of the river, while on the other side digging out a collapse to drop soil into the acquifer. A lovely wooden bridge and wooden tile road is the meeting area to keep the dwarves happy while they have no stone.
The dwarf with the only pickaxe falls into the watery pit under the collapse and drowns. I have to wait half a year to trade for another while the dwarves live on fish and berries in their hall. They are haunted by the ghost of the miner, as there is no stone for for a engraved slab in the graveyard. Cherry blossoms litter the ground, and blow into the half-finished excavation.
A crafter is possessed and wants stone, the one thing we don't have. What little the drwarves traded for had to go to other uses. A great pile of wooden crafts is building up. Just as well there are no elven neighbors. The crafter becomes melancholy, and wanders about the fisherdwarves, watching them. Sometimes he stands in the middle of the river.
After trading a new pick, the next miner knocks out the remaining support, and the collapse happens. But, alas, the aquifer is two levels thick! Only one level is smushed dry with the collapsed soil. We trade for rock, build a new structure in the now open watery pit. Two dwarves fall in that season during the construction, adding more drowned victims and wailing ghosts.
The construction of stone walls in the pit is knocked down at the cost of yet another dwarf - yet it isn't enough to breach the aquifer. Woe. The pit is now littered with rock and bodies and materials.
There is only one other thing to do; build a stack of wooden pumps, stairs, landings down into the pit, and an aquaduct to the river. Pump it dry and send in dwarfs to build walls and lock away the water.
All of this and still not at the point of the exercise - to raise a great hollow tower of stone over the river and a deep pit of stairs beneath, and tear down the hall of wood for charcoal. So it continues.
I have played quite a bit of the game and it is amazing despite its insane and sometimes frustrating UI.
I would price it at $19, where it would be towards the top-end of indie games on Steam; by the standards of people who enjoy Dwarf Fortress, Dwarf Fortress ROFLstomps the depth and quality of any other $19 entertainment option.
I would then immediately solicit inclusion in a Humble Bundle, in the expectation that Humble Bundle would leap at the chance. One could envision a rougelike or Df-alike bundle; I anticipate that Humble Bundle would give DF top billing in whatever deal was negotiated. I would model that Humble Bundle as doing > $800k in sales, of which DF's take would be > ~$80k. Throw in "and we'll use Humble as our exclusive e-commerce provider for 12 months" since I think it is fairly clear that the authors don't want to be in the e-commerce business; that gives Humble ~10% of their gross revenue for next year.
Stage 3 of the master plan: get the game onto Steam. This might require $X,000 worth of production-ready art and video assets to satisfy Steam's requirements; $X,000 will not be a material amount of money to Dwarf Fortress, LLC.
The above unsolicited opinions are coming from a place of love for small software businesses generally and Dwarf Fortress in particular. Strike the earth.
Their chosen tradeoff makes more sense if you think of it as "subscriptions versus one-offs" instead of "sales versus donations".
And thanks patio11 for that plan, sounds fascinating, as always.
Maybe something like that would be the kind of thing that would transform a work of passion into a boring bussiness full of obligations (to users, press, investors, Steam and whatnot). Worse even, after reading interviews with the Adams brothers I guess following a road like that maybe would even burn them after some years and end game development.
It's the difference of doing something for the money that can be extracted from it in contrast with doing something for passion and the joy of doing it. In some cases (or maybe for some personalities) these overlap, but in other cases they don't and it's ok, every person is different.
I imagine both these issues would mean a massive refactoring in order to bring it to mobile.
Or use VNC...
Is there something like a Dwarf Fortress in Space? I know about FTL, but there you have too much control over the crew.
Like FTL but with Dwarf Fortress like gameplay. "And then my ship got invaded by alien mind slugs and everybody want insane" or "The mourning captain shut himself up in the bridge and shortly afterwards we flew into a sun" or "We transported a herd of alien-cows which resulted in a stempede through the canteen".
I currently think of the game as a ship AI simulator. You, the player, are the AI of the ship. The crew members, upon boarding the ship, are injected with some form of mind-control tech that provides total obedience. Therefore, the crew have no free will. They will do whatever you command, even if it'll lead to their deaths.
A bonus to support the theory is the mind-control module you can get installed on your ship. This module takes control over an enemy crew member by hacking into that ship's mind-control tech.
But really, the graphics aren't that bad. No worse than any other roguelike.
Even back in 1992 it was hugely easier to play than Dwarf Fortress is now. And, IMO, way more fun.
Contrast this to a game like Angband which shares the funky UI and ASCII interface, but is still perfectly functional. And I certainly understand why it's like this; making an effective UI would be a significant challenge and distract from making the game itself, a monumental task. Still, they could release something like a DF API that lets others write UIs to access/play the game. Tarn has said he's considered this, but thinks it's too much work:
> I've thought about it. It seems like it would take a lot of work to maintain. I ditched the crappy 3D graphics of Armok 1, and adding features is so much faster now. This seems similar. There are lots and lots and lots of data structures, and the API would not be a simple thing, and it wouldn't be something I could just do once and then forget about.
FWIW, DFHack is basically capable of this, but it's not something you can build on too much.
Perhaps when (if) the game is feature complete, they'll release an API and open source UIs will flourish.
Rimworld - http://rimworldgame.com/
It's a bit of a spiritual successor, and like DF it's developed without a supporting team (by Tynan Sylvester)
It is really interesting and I almost feel like I am writing code at some points, having the machines automate themselves.
I haven't even started playing with the circuits yet which allows you to do even more programming.
I have this theory that the game designer(s?) actually took some pages from a multithreaded programming book and turned them into a game. A kind of meta-game.
Items are messages, transport belts are buffers with blocking writes, factories are actors, scheduling is roundrobin with preemption. Flying robots are a metaphor for references. Everything is as a pull model, and you can see the backpressure progating up the chain.
I'd love to see the implementation. I bet there is no modeling, everything directly mapped to some core programming primitive.
Yes, I'm sure the game's flying robots are implemented as a simple pointer and nothing else, no additional data to model for a name or any animation or where it comes from or where it goes to or anything like that at all.
Try Bob's mods. Increases depth by about 2-3x. Quite fun.
It's a rougelike in a zombie apocalypse.
A - He wants complete control of the direction that the game is heading,
B - He's not proud of the source code, from interviews and such and the length of the project I think it's rather a mess, and due to the fact that the game gets new features all the time, it's not getting refactored any time soon.
In a way it's a shame - the dwarf fortress community has been fighting "FPS death" of fortresses, when the simulation of all the stuff on your fortress reaches the point where the game crawls along so slowly it's unplayable. And this happens sooner than you'd think. People have been pushing to get the game multithreaded for years but unfortunately it's just not happening. Yet on the other hand I respect Tarns decision to want complete control over the direction of the game - yet there are already mods out there that completely change that anyway.
VIOLENCE_COEFFICIENT = 2.4
CIVILIZATION_HEGEMONIZATION_TENDENCY = 1.8232
It's a bit more complicated than running it on Windows, but still works just fine: https://tutorialinux.com/install-dwarf-fortress-ubuntu-16-04...
If I had a nickel for every time I've said that...
I'm not sure if that code works on OS X, but if it doesn't, you can still run it on a server. The interface won't be perfect, though, and you'll need to remap some keybindings.
1) Minecraft - Thence terraria and other similar 2d platformers
1.1) Minecraft clones, and several more voxel manipulation games
2) Prison Architect and Gnomoria
And this is influence drawn from the 2008 arc of the project.
The next part of the project should involve the creation of the plane of existence - where Adams has said that he will be drawing on multiple different forms of mythology to create magic systems and creation myths.
His last talk showed how <Cosmic Egg> + <Chaos> gave <birth> to <First ones>
<Cosmic Egg> <Cracked> and gave rise to the earth and ocean.
etc. etc - Until you have playable races.
ANd thats just a minor portion of the recent changes - all of which will go on to inspire and influence other games (or put people off entirely, with DF you never know)
You can argue he didn't even come close to fulfilling that goal.
Similarly, musicians like Frank Zappa and Swans exert a larger influence (because musicians like them) than their popularity would suggest.
Edit: was expecting something like this, for those of you now interested in home-castle-building-stories: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2280764/Farmer-told-...