In Greece this is illegal. The fact that Banks for years get away with taking pictures without any kind of explicit agreement adds to the narrative that Greece is (officially now) a protectorate and banks are WAY above state where it matters.
In Turkey not a lot of women wear burkas. Burkas and the variation that you would like to point are different things. If you wear burkas, it will be really hard for video surveillance. Because only your eyes and wrinkles around them are visible. The other variation "Head Scarf" which lets your face totally visible is ok for identifying people.
From cultural perspective, a lot of women in Turkey wear "head scarf". It is a symbol that you are a part of a religion and you share almost the same vision with the religion that you are a member of. But burkas is different. It means you feel more radicalized in terms of religion. A social example would be shaking hanks with women. If you are a man in Turkey and have a intend to shake a woman's hands, you can do it with a woman wearing "headscarf" but not burkas.
So, basically No. They don't wear burkas at all may be 4% percent at most.
Below is my personal opinion.
I don't really understand why people are bullshitting my country. You never lived there. What you just wrote is a black propaganda. What is the relation between wearing burkas in Turkey and ATM heist? You are not in that position to conclude that opinion. It is just a subliminal message.
A recent survey in Turkey showed that Atheism and other close variants are on the rise at its highest rate ever. I hope that one day people in Turkey will break their chains and get rid of that human-made arabic culture.
Fun fact, "çarşaf" or more accurately "şarşaf" in Egyptian Arabic means table clothes or bed clothes. It's amazing words and consequently languages evolve and take on meanings over time.
You realize you just did the exact same thing between wearing Burkas in Turkey and Islam / Religion?
You are not in that position to conclude that opinion. Head scarves & Burka's go beyond 'identity' as you just trivialized them to.
You used your comment to get across your 'subliminal message' just as much as the commenter you accused of doing did.
Just a nitpick, but every culture is man-made.
Pop quiz: can you identify this person? http://i.imgur.com/WBqCCv1.jpg
Let's assume for the sake of argument that Turkish people manage to get rid of the Arabian deity (Mohammad's god) they embraced a millennia ago, it would be an uphill battle for them against history because whether you like it or not, the most bright spots in history for Turkish people were during the reign of Seljuks and Ottomans, neither would have happened hadn't for the Islamic doctrine and faith.
You could argue of course that Turkey founded by Ataturk was still something impressive and to look up to but it still pales in comparison with what had been achieved during these two eras at least from an imperialistic and militaristic points of view.
That's why I think it wouldn't be easy for Turkey to break free from the negative Arabian influence and Sahara culture even if they renounce Islam altogether when compared to other countries in the region with more diverse and rich history spanning various civilizations and glorious times, and therefore they should focus more on how to reconcile with their past and history and not just get in state of denial about it.
Most people don't really care about the details of history that much - just whatever narrative they can spin that satisfies today's needs.
The British Empire was vast and I can't come up with a definite answer for all the areas that were colonized by them but in my country "Egypt", they didn't do that. They however facilitated the work of western missionaries but it didn't achieve much with the Muslim locals and probably contributed to the outrage of Coptic clergy as these missionaries were snatching people from their congregation. Other than that, the British didn't really care about religion and their social order was constructed on race/class first basis and anything else second while for the Ottomans it was all about religion first and anything else second.
How far back in history do you want to go? Plenty of battles within Christianity in British history. E.g. King Henry VIII didn't accept the authority of the pope and led the Church of England away from the Roman Catholic Church. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_England#Separation_f...
A few generations later, things got pretty dicey for the remaining Catholics:
England’s Elizabethan Catholics were public
enemy number one. Their Masses were banned
and their priests were executed.
To the best of my knowledge, that didn't happen. The British Empire in its quests wasn't concerned about anti-Catholicism and disdain for the authority of the Pope, it was primarily driven by political/financial gains. On the other hand, for the Ottoman Turks it was all about Jihad and the subjugation of non-Muslims in newly conquered territories. The persecution and discrimination against non-Muslims for the subjects of their realm was one of the founding principles of taheir rule and public policy.
That's not to mention that forcing Christianity on conquered subjects was one of the main goals of the British Empire.
My point is that it's irrelevant in terms of how history affects peoples' actions. You're engaging a detailed study of historical reality, but the masses don't do that. They have a narrative spun for them - generally no more than two or three sentences of complexity, max - and that's what matters.
Please don't take it personally. It's ignorance. Perceptions are built around these weird media effects from the news. Treat us like puppies or children. it's not malice, we just don't know any better.
The Turkish man you replied to wanted to correct an inaccurate stereotype about Turkish culture. Your comment perpetuates the stereotype that Americans are uneducated on global affairs. This may be true for some, but saying that all Americans should be treated like "puppies" because they "don't know any better" is a huge insult.
Also, I think you've confused a general with a universal. I don't think he was saying that "all Americans" don't know better, just that when confronted with dumb statements it's better to presume ignorance than malice.
As an example, National Geographic did a survey in 2002, and young Americans came in second to last:
"About 11 percent of young citizens of the U.S. couldn't even locate the U.S. on a map. The Pacific Ocean's location was a mystery to 29 percent; Japan, to 58 percent; France, to 65 percent; and the United Kingdom, to 69 percent."
On the one hand, I find this a bit appalling. On the other, I can't totally blame people; America is big enough and far enough from everything else that relatively few Americans ever leave the country, and those who do mostly stay on the continent. So I don't see a "assume ignorance, not malice" posture as an insult; it's mostly what I do myself.
I do not doubt that Americans on average are less educated on international affairs than other Western countries. But arguing that a factually incorrect comment about Turkish headwear on HN (by a user of unknown nationality) is a result of broader "American ignorance" is meaningless.
Furthermore, I believe m00dy's response was accurate and fair. If he viewed every incorrect comment about Turkish culture as written by an American "puppy," I doubt he would have commented, and no one would have learned anything.
Indeed it was. after a few hours i realize i came off as a jerk. My apologies to you and anyone else i may have offended.
This seems particularly bizarre, because even if someone hasn't learned world geography, surely they've seen a map of the US in various contexts, and can recognise its shape?
My guess is that this number would be significantly better today because people interact a lot more with world maps when they accidentally zoom out on, e.g., Google Maps pages.
But something to the tune of "All user biometrics shall only be stored with the consent of the subject." pretty much means it is illegal to do so, unless you have some sort of sign.
This type of law is usually under the guise of protection of personal information, or some other flag. Though the laws vary in many countries. For the sake of argument, I'm simply saying it's not illegal to photograph someone entering your property in order to point out how "secondary" or "related" laws apply without ever explicitly being defined so.
(Compare US law on taping phone conversations)
Now when we're talking about private property, written consent about what you do with that data is obligatory.
Indeed these banks receive tons of lawsuits every year, but if there's something more rotten in Greece than the economy is the justice estate...
And then I was confused what constitutes a headscarf, so I found this:
For example, in Taiwan, females will wear the mask to block the sun in an attempt to prevent freckles.
They are also often used to combat pollution. Many choose to only wear while riding scooters, while others any time outdoors.
In some countries masks have become commonplace such that decorative fashionable masks are sold at convenience stores.
I suspect that the cultural focus on cleanliness has a lot to do with it, but given that it's Hacker News there may be someone with a more exact idea of the origin.
Contrast with my experience in Sydney, where catching the bus during flu season is bloody hazardous. Being coughed and sneezed on gets old quickly, so I totally understand the surgical mask thing; it's a basic courtesy.
I'm from HK and to the best of my memory the practice never existed before the epidemic. During the epidemic, anywhere you went in public, there were at least 8/10 people wearing masks, thanks in part to huge public (TV/print) campaigns by the government and places like schools/clinics/hospitals providing free masks. That is just one of many counter measures that live on to this day. Another one is that all elevators and escalators have stickers or signs stating how many times/day and when it was last disinfected, and elevators tend to have a big clear plastic sheet covering all the buttons.
What a world we live in.
All in all, it's still a better situation for the latter than the former when it comes to law enforcement.
Stalin was as Asian.
"The yakuza are notorious for their strict codes of conduct and organized nature."
The system doesn't notice when 116 transactions per minute are for the maximum withdrawal amount?
The ATMs don't run out of cash really quickly?
The maximum withdrawal amount in this case is only about 1000 USD. Not that much. A lot of people will withdraw the max on the payday.
And it was only 10 transactions per ATM in average, spread along 2 hours.
To the extent that these ATMs are just terminals that serve a variety of networks, I wouldn't assume Seven Bank is at fault.
The real WTF is how cards can still be cloned so easily, how they got the passwords, how the S.A. bank didn't notice a spike in transactions from Japan, etc.
The article makes it seem as if Banks of the ATMs are the ones who lost the money.
I'm also a bit surprised the criminals carried their operation in Japan, It would have been easier in a more messy place e.g India / Africa ?
>I'm also a bit surprised the criminals carried their operation in Japan, It would have been easier in a more messy place e.g India / Africa ?
No, you'd want a location with lots of ATMs that have large amounts of money in them. In my experience India and Africa would both be particularly bad places for this. LE isn't a factor here, mules may get arrested but the perpetrators certainly don't care.
Contrary to popular belief (and "your experience", Africa & India , has a lot of ATMs that have a lot of money, I am from South Africa, and I've been to India so I know this for a fact.
This isn't just my personal experience, but a very easily verifiable fact.
I also seriously doubt that level09 was referring to South Africa in his comment, rather than the other "messier" african nations that all have far lower ATM densities.
As all credit balances on cards are just numbers in a database somewhere and prepaid cards can be refilled and drained pretty quickly, you can see the appeal of this style of attack.
It's actually probably safer for the workers than the organizers -- if one of the workers is picked up, they probably have a huge incentive to roll over and give up the guy who recruited them, but the organizers probably won't get much out of giving up their 100 minions.
And yeah, $50,000 probably isn't life-changing for you but if you're a teenager or 20-something without any prospects, it could be life changing. It's not "retire to an island" money, but it is "pay for college", "start a small business", "buy a car" and "move out of your craphole town to a place with economic opportunity" money.
And for the organizers, $1M a piece may be retire-to-an-island money, assuming you mean "move to a cheap island" and not "buy your own island".
320x the minimum wage in my country. I could sure live several years with that amount of cash.
Current title: 120M stolen from 1,400 convenience store ATMs across Japan in 2 hours
First paragraph of article:
>TOKYO (Kyodo) -- A total of 1.4 billion yen ($12.7 million) in cash has been stolen from some 1,400 automated teller machines in convenience stores across Japan in the space of two hours earlier this month, investigative sources said Sunday.
Suggested title: $12.7 million stolen from 1,400 convenience store ATMs across Japan in 2 hours
This meant that individual account holders were much more tolerant of chip-and-pin technology, and demanded additional security features like portable card readers, which mean that the credit card never leaves the account holder's possession.
Edit: it's also not true in France now: http://www.french-property.com/guides/france/finance-taxatio...
I am unable to find good data on fraud rates in Europe going back before chip-and-pin, but the system reduced fraud in the UK by ~60-70%, at least for face-to-face transactions:
So the UK almost certainly had significantly higher fraud than the US before rolling out chip-and-pin. If
seliopou is right, then this was also true for France.
Let me know if you can find better Europe-wide data.
A processor does not charge lower fees for chip cards in a vacuum, they do it because they expect to eat less fraud from chip cards.
Losses due to fraud are much easier to eat in the US because of the 10x larger fee.
I hope this doesn't make it even harder to do so.
(I know the US recently went chip-and-pin.)
(The only thing it did though was activating once a day and printing out some ads, mostly car dealerships or insurances, AFAIR.)
Even with faxes from a whole bunch of his clients... as many as I could trace back to the sender, and then of course collecting the judgment isn't easy. So after all that, it was barely enough to pay me. I guess that is why you don't see folks going after the spammers as much.
Fraud is definitely a lesser concern in this country of lower crime rates. I'm afraid it will probably be tightened up as they globalise.
Currency conversion, plus bad editing/title, plus confusion around the short/long scale.
(edit: just came back realizing that this was a useless comment since they'd both be wrong here)
13M was not stolen. 12M was stolen (and some more).
Thus the more accurate title would be "12M stolen from hacked South African bank via 1,400 ATMs across Japan" since the statement in your title is demonstrably false, while the other title is (presumably, from the article) true.
If you want to rob a bunch of ATMs and get away with it, try keeping your vulnerable window longer than 2 hours...
I mean, it's going to be pretty straightforward to gather a bunch of footage and see what happened those 2 hours. These guys will get busted within the next few days basically guaranteed.
Besides, I think the decision to execute the transactions in a short time window is correct. Otherwise banks would easily spot a pattern in the transactions (max amount, stolen CC, South Africa) and start rejecting them. Even if legitimate transactions are denied, it's still worth it. They would have never been able to get away with $12 mil in cash.
A small crew can disappear but 100's of people at least some of them with records and known to the police not a chance.
Dead drops? One guy talks, they have a drop site. Law enforcement knows how to do stakeouts. Wait until someone comes to pick up the cash from the drop site, tail him to wherever he goes next.
Deposit it in real banks and transfer it somewhere? Okay, now you don't even need a participant to cooperate, you can just identify him and pull his bank records.
Maybe they convert it to BTC. Are there mixing services doing enough volume to really be untraceable? Otherwise investigators can watch it on the other side and see whose bank account it gets converted into.
Of course, if they pulled this off effectively, the drops all were probably executed soon after the 2h window, and then you've got a much colder trail to follow, even if you find one of the mules and magically have video surveillance of the region.
And then you have a 100-player Prisoner's Dilemma, unless they organized the group in a decentralized manner.
Cash flows up, risk flows down. Seems to be the MO of most organized crime.
These 100 guys aren't a part of "the group" though, they're just random idiots hoping to score a quick buck.
The people actually running this in all likelihood aren't even in japan.
His friends says, "What are you doing? You can't outrun a bear!"
His friend replies, "I don't have to outrun the bear; I only have to outrun
How can you really find someone from 100x100 pixel image? I am genuinely interested.
Chances are the ones going to the ATMs are money mules (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_mule), probably not of the completely innocent kind, but of the "not too smart, falling for a 'want to earn $100 in an hour?'" question from a 'friend'.
$100 will give them about a 10% cut, if they do one ATM. It is more likely, though, that they had each guy do >1 ATM. So, you would need, maybe, around 250 of these guys. To recruit them, find around 50 slightly smarter but still not too smart guys who get $2000 each. On top of that, you need real criminals who can make sure the lower levels do not run away with the money, either by convincingly threatening them with bodily harm, or by following them to the ATMs while staying out of view of the cameras.
Yes, costs will add up, but you should be able to keep costs below 50%.
Plus, we probably wouldn't be hearing about it a week after the fact, if it's part of a long-standing interaction like the yakuza, barring someone with loose lips.
As if those 100 guys matter...
Please tell me how you'd do it instead? Build robots to go to the ATMs?
Only thing that matters here is the link between the people going to the ATMs and the people actually running the operation.