It's such an obvious mistake that I wonder nobody at Apple has pointed that out during the rehearsals? The thing about old PCs being designed 'before social media' was dumb, too. This is a "pro" tablet, right? How does it matter if it has a Facebook app?
This is the same Phil Schiller that is now in charge of the App Store, and as an iOS developer, I find the carelessness a little worrying.
Maybe this isn't a mistake ? maybe, deep down, Apple knows that the number one thing they sell is status and a false feeling of superiority ? So why not give their users who replace their devices often, some of that feeling ? a feeling that they are less able to supply via highly differentiated innovation ?
So who knows whether this method will work or be deemed as too crude - most of us here aren't good at marketing as Apple.
> Buy a new iPad pro.
Schiller turns around, goes back to the slides, stops midway, turns to the crowd and says "But I still use an old PC, because if it ain't broke, don't fix it!", winks, and continues the presentation.
Come on, this article is grasping at straws.
I bet they're not as much offended about the pageviews and ad impressions a link titled like that brings in.
"<vendor> mocks poor people" is the dumbest possible analysis of this data. I work for an organization with something like $1.5B in IT spend. Our 40th percentile PC is 8 years old. The 80th percentile PC is 4. Our desired refresh for a desktop PC is 40 months.
Why? The post 2008 recession killed discretionary spending. Then Microsoft failed utterly to deliver a compelling desktop strategy from 2008 to the present day. They finally got their shit together with Windows 10, but their fantasy world where the universe is transitioning from Windows 7->8->10 makes that more friction-prone than it need be.
Consumers are in the same boat. People skipped upgrades because of the friction involved in the transition, which is why Microsoft is dragging you to upgrade kicking and screaming.
Personally, I use my elderly in-laws as a proxy for non-technical consumers. They are technophobes -- a retired fireman and nurse respectively... not rich, not poor. When I met my wife in 2000, they were still leasing a telephone from AT&T. They made the PC->Mac transition in 2009 and were actually able to use their computer without worrying about the typical PC woes (AV, updates, etc). That Mac is aging and it's was starting to turn into the time to go.
With the iPad Pro, my father in law ran out to the Apple Store by himself, got the stuff he needed and got everything going on his own. Long story short -- he loves it. It does everything that they need to do, and is a more convenient form factor than the laptop. He hasn't touched the computer other than syncing music from the Mac to the PC since.
What's rather sad is the laughing audience, to me, who left their brains at the door and laugh and applause when they are told to. Just like in 1984's iconic Apple ad, by the way. The loop is complete.
it seems to me a lot of comments here are focusing on the tech aspects of this (no surprise i guess) instead of the point: this is a marie antoinette moment, a la "let them get an ipad pro"
It's kind of like the artist and their art. Leni Riefenstahl and her propaganda films.
 to trade them for form (soldered RAM, fused display panels), for assembly convenience (tons of adhesives, thankfully they've at least started moving to adhesive pull tabs for iOS device batteries) or for no fucking reason whatsoever (custom SSD connectors, proprietary/security screws). As far as iFixit is concerned, the only thing less repairable than an rMBP is an orange.
What will happen in reality is the phone will go into a industrial shredder and then the process of separating/recycling will begin. The robot seems like a marketing gimmick (they even have it a name), and will not be involved in 99% of the recycling process.
I really want to be proven wrong.
And of course this is also a project to have a robot do the reverse--assemble iPhones.
So oranges might, in fact, be more repairable.
That "joke" was terrible in many different ways.
At least where I live people drop working stuff off at FreeGeek instead of tossing them in a dumpster.
Either way, this wasn't a tech company but more like a retail shop with an attached cafe. People frequently would chit-chat about computer stuff and several times people would complain that their old or severely underpowered/low end PC was too slow or crapped out on them. Boss' answer: "Get a Mac!" Every time without fail.
It really made it hard not to bristle at the sentiment or take it out on Apple in general since they had similar themes in their ad campaigns at the time (this was the "I'm a Mac" days). Essentially people were either using the equivalent of aging Camrys or newer models at the extreme low end of the market like some 3cyl Ford Fiesta and the solution to their problems was obviously to buy a Mercedes.
Of course a luxury car (or computer) is going to run better than something old or low-end but there's a much wider range in between that will often cover your needs, sans some extra layers of polish that demand an understandable premium, for considerably less money.
So yeah, marketers will market. Fanboys will fanboy. I get it. But it doesn't make it less irritating when users and customers start parroting the lines from ad campaigns that seek to convince you that anything less than the Porsche or the Benz are just going to crap out on you and leave you sad and lonely.
I also have a 6-yr-old iMac at home, and it definitely falls into the no-real-need-to-upgrade category (I do have a newer laptop, but it is running Linux--and I expect to be able to keep that for a while too).
Refurb Thinkpad T420s from 2011.
I added 16G RAM, two Intel SSDs, an Ultrabay battery, and an 802.12ac wifi card.
Grand total: less than $325.
This will be my primary portable for at least 2-3 years, and it's already four years old.
Just because I can afford Apple doesn't mean I can justify the 2x price premium, or that "old" hardware isn't capable.
I'm not the biggest fan of the x20 series Thinkpads due to many stupid niggles (electrical noise, fan noise, LCD quality, build quality issues, driver issues, bad trackpads etc etc etc), but if what you need is a computing tool... well....
My laptop is a 1st gen Macbook Air, inherited from original owner. Also perfectly good for what I do.
My car is from 2004. Perfectly reliable and meets all my needs.
There is a HUGE amount of retail activity that is caried out just because people want the newest and latest version of things. And I have no problem with that, but it's absolutely not necessary if you don't want to participate.
There are enough people and situations to judge for disregarding the condition of poverty, we don't need to contrive any.
Yes, some of them are elitist jerks. Some of them are not. I find lots of things Apple does offensive and other things I really like. But I have no illusions that there's some kind of corporate hive mind that speaks its hidden agenda through executive avatars.
I'm not surprised that there are parts of Apple that are focused on sustainability and other parts that couldn't care less. That's not contradictory, that's collaboration. I'm glad the ones that care about sustainability work in that department, and if engineers keep doing their jobs and make long-lasting products, whatever their opinions on old hardware happen to be, everything will be fine.
The idea that an entire corporation should share the same opinions on everything is just scary. I know plenty of them have been trying to push that kind of message, but we're smarter than that, aren't we?
My thoughts at that moment: 'modern digital like' is a sad joke. 4K video won't change your life, even 1080p. If your hardware isn't absurd, pop Linux, a SSD if needed, and enjoy the 80$ bliss. All from a guy trying to sell hour based color shifting .. come on.
If there are 600 million people who are using something besides one of their product they are going to say that those people should use their products instead.
Get off your high horse.
What he said was along the same lines of rhetoric as all the "I'm a Mac, I'm a PC" commercials.
There's nothing to take personally about what an executive says about the products you choose to use in your home. That's your choice.
I upgrade just for the heck of it normally, but I gave my wife my T430 for grad school and I bought her a Surface Pro 3 as well (for notes and just for the hell of it). I'm tempted to buy a T460p (if they ever make it into the supply chain with nVidia FX) or a P50, but this T420 keeps chugging along just fine.
On my current consulting gig I'm working on a VM anyway for all development (interesting change of pace, works well locally but holy crap remotely). I think I paid $400 for this laptop used (bought it after the T430 since I couldn't ask for it back). Popped in 4gb more ram and a mSATA SSD for about $160 more.
I'd like to get an Apple to work on a iOS project on the side I've been thinking of. I just can't see spending $800 on a Mac Mini. I'll probably just do a Hackintosh instead (have a C2D Mini that works fine).
On point two, it is absolutly possible that a 5 year old machine still runs fine. Depending on the machine! A 5 year old macbook pro is still pretty capable. A 5 year old acer laptop that you got at a black friday sale... not so much. I think this is the level of user they would like to have switch and it's not that far fetched.
Finally for Christmas I bought an iPad Mini for $199. It's so much smaller than the 15.6" laptop she had, so much easier to use, turns on/off instantly, the battery lasts all day. It's a huge improvement for her. Facebook, games, email, Facetiming her grandkids...
She keeps the Acer around for one thing - ripping CD's to sync to her SanDisk MP3 player.
She doesn't want a desktop. She replaced the Pentium 4 Dell desktop I gave her 10 years ago with the Acer laptop.
You can't use a desktop on the couch, etc.
If you take good care of your computers they can last a very long time, even cheap ones. Still, the person that bought that acer laptop on a black friday might be one of the people that fall into door one.
... my original iPad. Because Apple left it to die - even the last update means it can't run Apple's own store or browser without crashing and I can't get versions of software that previously worked because they're not supported or offered any more as Apple forced developers to move up to all of the new API's.
Yes - I can see exactly why I should spend yet more money on something that will intentionally become obselescent in the future.
Also, I think it's bad for the environment and humanity in general to buy new igadgets every year. So, I use a 4 year old refurbished dumb phone that I bought for $9.99. It works great (just like my 7 year old Linux PC).
Maybe people are still using old PCs because they still work and are fully functional? I'm using a 4 year old ThinkPad and guess what? It's not only still fully functional, it's still quick, snappy, the screen is still bright and looks nice (I did splurge for the upgrade at the time), and it's been super low maintenance (been running Linux on it the whole time). It could use a new battery (capacity has gone down over time), but hey, it's a removable battery so I can do that.
I imagine I'll still be getting a few more years of use from it, there certainly are no signs that I should upgrade at the moment. I mean, if I were to be a little greedy, I'd buy a new laptop with a wicked video card and give this one to my wife (after she made me throw out a fully functional 6 year old desktop we didn't use very often), but is that necessary, not really.
It's pretty plain that Apple simply plans for its products to be replaced quicker than 5 years, to make more sales, and they're speaking to the faithful.
I bought a new median range Dell this month....and meh. Basically those eight years have made no difference to me running Arch and/or Debian.
Imagine trying to say that about the 8 years preceding that (I.e 2000 to 2008).
I'll most likely be getting a new Macbook once my current one finally decides to visit its ancestors. With that said, I'm actually impressed with its longevity, as none of my other PCs (desktops & laptops) ever lasted that long. So, I actually see running on old hardware as an impressive feat (unless you're a gamer).
For the uninitiated: http://www.enotes.com/homework-help/ending-better-than-mendi...
But saying this was mocking poor people is just ridiculous. It's trying to stir up outrage over nothing.
I gave up on the iPad 1 and iPad mini because they didn't have enough RAM to load many websites. The new iPad pro has only 2GB of RAM and even 5 year old PCs had 4GB or 8GB.
I think what he meant was "It's sad that these people don't know yet the wonderful news that they can use this fantastic new iPad instead"
Was apple mocking poor people? Of course not. It's 2016. Can we stop overreacting about every little thing yet?
Funny thing: the Apple ][ was the flag bearer in its time for that kind of upgradability. Wozniak insisted on this against Jobs, and it kept the ][ alive through the 3's flop and well into the Mac era -- the Mac did not succeed right away.
Is it so impossible for Apple to bring back some of that spirit of open design? The Jobs lockdown was and still is their greatest turnoff for me as a customer.
I wouldn't call myself poor, but I have no need to replace these devices every 3 years, since not much changes, except they get thinner.
A reader noticed Schiller deleted his Instagram account (@schiller), and then reached out to Apple’s most visible public speaker by Twitter for confirmation. Schiller told the reader that he quit the rising photo-based social network, because the app “jumped the shark” when it launched on the Android platform.
At the time, I thought it was a slap in the face to people who couldn't afford iOS devices but wanted to join the Instagram community. Schiller portrayed it as a drop in quality, apparently:
Another 9to5Mac reader, Clayton Braasch, claims to have emailed Schiller directly, asking him to elaborate upon the statement. In a post on his blog, Braasch writes that Schiller responded — 9to5Mac says it has verified the email headers — and that while Schiller still considers Instagram a "great app and community," he enjoyed the fact that it was used by a small group of early adopters. Now that its reach has expanded, Schiller allegedly wrote, "the signal to noise ratio is different."
Maybe? Is there even a question anymore? If there is, one only needs to look at the designs Apple has been pushing for the last seven years: un-upgradable, mass-consumer grade quality products. If anything has been crystal clear from the disappearance of all upgradeable parts in all their products over the last few years and their constant events (at least 3 a year) is that they want you to buy new shiny stuff and they don't care about supporting the old stuff. Apple will support you for one year or up to two or three (depending on product) if you pay a few hundred extra for Apple care. The fact that there is no Applecare plan longer than two years for iPads and three years for laptops should be another crystal clear indicator that their product aren't meant to last and be used that long.
That being said, at least with their laptops (haven't used the new Macbook) the hardware quality is generally very high (except for the trackpads). I hope it continues to stay this way.
Apple’s based in SF. An iPad Pro is like a week’s worth of rent, and to them “work” probably means scribbling a hipster poem while sipping coffee you can’t pronounce without 5 years of language study. How is anything the guy said different from how the conferences always go. The fact that the author found it worthwhile to write about this like this is an actual problem is astounding.
You really want to mock the massive effort of that group - a group you believed in at one point in time? At least honor the memory of Ko Isono.
I didn't see the Lisa or the Apple /// get the same treatment. Maybe because Saint Steve backed those projects?
Though I suspect Macs might not be included in that statistic, it seemed out of touch nonetheless.
A 5 year old PC is low quality. A company that makes high quality products wants people to have better experiences with computers.
At the event, they launched their lowest price phone. I bet that phone in a year is going to be even cheaper.
You can find offense in everything, but you shouldn't.
> There are really only two reasons why people might have a computer that’s more than five years old:
> 1. They can’t afford an upgrade.
> 2. They don’t need an upgrade.
There are many other reasons. Among them, upgrading hardware will force an OS upgrade that will break significant software and hardware.
Computers really have plateaued in a lot of ways. Phones for 2-4y vs 1-2y, laptops for. 3-6 vs 2-3, desktops for 4-8 vs 3-4y.
"Why don't you buy me one"
I was a little offended, her remark and body language felt a little hostile. We never talked again.
This memory stuck with me and I wish I could apologize to her. My seemingly harmless remark poked fun at her economic handicap for my amusement.
I don't think this is true. Apple just replaced the motherboard on my 2011 Macbook Pro for free. I've also upgraded the RAM, HD to a SSD, Battery, & Fans. Its running soooo good I love it.
The price of 5+ year old macbook pros, imacs, and mac pros on ebay is proof that apple does make hardware that lasts... Anyways, I'm interested in the relationship between apple releasing new products and the aftermarket value of older version. I think apple releasing newer ipads probably makes older used ipads more affordable..
Now do the same thing on new Macbooks.
Instead of exploring why that might be the case they instead decided to mock these people.
This is the only part of the article that resonated with me. Apple completely failed to provide any viable reason for 600m+ PC users to switch to an iPad Pro.
At my old job, at an MSP, I used to upgrade a TON of people from XP to Win 7 or 8.1 in the small/medium business world. I could not believe how many companies absolutely had the money to upgrade their PCs but simply did not want to because they were afraid of the learning curve. It basically came down to that. They had no problem paying for us to "fix" their XP machines at $125+/hour. The same went for a lot of servers. Who knows how many of those are in the said 600 million pool.
Similarly, traders are speculating global new vehicle sales to increase, as the average age of a car on the road far older than the previous trend. It's north of a decade even in the United States.
The theory is that during tight times people deleverage and reduce spending, while during boom times the demand that accumulated during the tight times is released through extra consumption.
Getting from the Apple comment to the article's topic, much less conclusions, takes a spectacular amount of cognitive gymnastics.
That is it , to me is very relative ... i can work with a 5 year old laptop... no problem , most of my things run on servers etc etc.
Ipad Pro? no way .. give it to kids.
I think they continued to sell it until 2012 or so but then fixed the "oversight" with an art deco piece of a "desktop" computer with no room for upgrades. I still buy Apple laptops because work involves dealing with Xcode and iOS stuff but for any personal use, no more Apple hardware for me.
The assumption here is that the vast majority of >5-year-old PCs are crap, and that the reason for continuing with them is that a new full PC replacement is too expensive. The iPad is supposed to be disruptive because it's a lower-cost machine that can nonetheless do everything the user used to do on a full-fledged PC.
You might disagree that the iPad succeeds in this, but it is nonetheless the way Apple thinks about where the iPad sits in the market. This was the point of Schiller's remark. It has nothing to do with mocking the poor.
It is well-documented that the Surface OS takes up far more space than iOS, which means that the available space is not nearly as disparate as it would seem (though the Surface still has a bit more): http://www.slashgear.com/surface-3-storage-space-still-limit...
Is an iPad Pro 2 the answer? Obviously not. The unsaid lesson from this event is that Apple's products aren't improving as quickly either. Nor are the new features as interesting. So it's not surprising that Schiller would look backward instead of forward.
There are a lot of people who own an old PC and think it's the best possible setup. But in reality they actually wouldn't need a full PC because all they do is browse the web and read/write emails.
My opinion is that many people would be better off with an iPad than a PC. It's small, portable, intuitive, easy to maintain, has great customer support and so on.
And after the iOS update rendered many "old" devices unusably slow, the "great" customer support basically told them to spend more money on new models.
> wouldn't need a full PC because
Your pitch is wrong: people already own a PC, what they don't need is to buy apple gadgets, and replace them with newer apple gadgets every couple of years. My parents are totally happy with their ~10 year old PC with SSD, running LTS Debian, and are able to do everything they want freely.
As for myself, I do own an Android smartphone, but that's only because the phone company gave it for free, not that I asked for it, and such a "toy" system definitely isn't going to replace my PC, or a true POSIX environment.
Smart paperclip was a Microsoft thing ;)
You reminded me that I need to dig out and backup my Office 97 disk before it rots.
Then, bring in the subject group: and ask a question - how much do you think the phone is worth? How wealthy do you think the person is?
My hypothesis: people have no idea what phone's cost at an average viewing distance (say 3m+).
In the meantime I've upgraded my parents' PC from Win XP to Win 10 and it runs as fast or even faster than before.
I agree with the Apple exec that it's really sad.
There's a third: they wouldn't trust an upgrade :) Just where to draw the line isn't obvious. But it's probably closer to 10 years old than five.
I converted to Linux from Windows about a year ago. An unexpected but great benefit is that I have been able to pull PCs 5 to 10 years old out of my garage and now they run like brand-new. I should be good for a while.
The majority of those machines Apple is "mocking" are running operating systems that have known exploits in the wild and people are doing their personal banking on them. The shitty, stuck up delivery doesn't change the fact that it actually would be better and more private for people to dump their unsupported windows xp/vista/7 boxes and use an iPad Pro. Then, at least, they'd have a semblance of security.
I'm not even willing to say that Apple didn't intend to mock the poor but the facts remain regardless of delivery or intent. I think we can agree that for the majority of the people we're talking about here, "They don’t need an upgrade" is simply not the case.
And 600 million 5+ year PCs seems like a low number...
Best thing I've ever did in terms of apple hardware.
If you maxed out the RAM, have you thought about doing a RAM disk?
If that makes you angry, then you need to upgrade your thin skin.
I think maybe that's what apple was trying to get across, buy some quality hardware that is updated regularly instead of spending low on cheap things. It's a poor argument for sure but I wouldn't call it out of touch because it is the defacto argument sales people try to use to get you to purchase more expensive things.
So while I do agree that in some cases it makes sense to invest a little more (I'm typing this on a top of the line MSI laptop after all) - cars are not the best example here for a variety of reasons.
If I've replaced every component in my desktop computer, even the case at one point, is still the same computer?
Support for legacy iOS devices and macs is very impressive.
Thanks for the advice of getting a ipad pro, bro.
I have a mac that's over 5 years old and I'm quite proud of the fact that the hardware is still good. Apparently I am bringing shame to Apple.
Though this might be a bit of both.
But things started to change with the success of the iPhone and then the iPad. We Mac fanatics used to say that any success for Apple was a win for the Mac platform. But in reality, it hasn't played out that way. The Mac is languishing, and it's languishing in ways that I can only attribute to intent. It's becoming more frustrating to use. Files that you see right in front of you don't come up in a search. Software updates bring rapid obsolescence. Simple things like "Save As" have been changed in Apple's apps so that now Shift-Command-S, for example, is the command to "Duplicate" a file, which you then have to Command-S save. Then when you close out, you have the additional step of dismissing a save dialog on the original document. The hardware, obviously, is not being built to last. (Apple's laptops were always frail things, dating back to my PowerBook Duo and PowerBook 520c, but their desktops and workstations were always bullet-proof; they are not anymore.)
It's a bunch of little things and big things combined to make a very frustrating experience.
This December, I decided to jump ship. I bought a Surface Pro 4. The hardware is awesome (Core i7 with 16 GB RAM). The software needed some manual intervention, but it's coming along. (Microsoft didn't include the WinTab driver, for example, so there was no pressure sensitivity for some apps. And there was no documentation available for it. And frankly Apple's keyboard shortcuts for special characters are better than Microsoft's, but I've been able to emulate those.)
I don't even think about what platform I'm on when I'm working now (except when I use Dreamweaver CS6 because Adobe is freaking horrible and can't deal with Microsoft's trackpad and wants to force me to rent CC, which I will never do).
I never considered an iPad or iPad Pro for a second. They are useless to me. When I get a unit in, it just gathers dust. There's nothing "pro" about it unless your profession is typing e-mails and visiting Web pages. Plus, I actually like computers. I'm old enough that they are still like science fiction to me. I still have dreams about them. And I like to be able to get into the software guts of my computers and mess around in there.
I also refuse to consider the iPhone. Not as long as there are Android phones that have expandable storage and a removable battery. Plus every time I have to deal with one of my kids' iPhones, especially when I have to deal with iTunes on top of that, I want to punch Apple so badly.
And most importantly, I don't want to be at the bottom of the food chain in Apple's iTunes ecosystem. And that's all Apple's customers have become.
Either upgrade or not, no one cares.
Perhaps to make sure no one's feelings are hurt, all ads for new products should be banned.
If you want to see a jab at poor people look at Gainsbourg burn a 500 franc note (about 100USD at the time) on live television. That's a jab at poor people https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMq3Zr9_ARE
I think it's generally accepted common knowledge that Mac's age far better than PC's, maybe not so much on desktops, but laptops? Definitely. I have a custom built PC at home myself and I'd never trade it for a Macbook of my own, but after using a macbook from the company for the last few years, I can't ever go back to a Windows laptop.