She learned to read at age 3 using the very well done "Cat In The Hat" desktop program, and since then I have turned her on to everything from Gmail at age 6 to Ableton at 12.
I've decided that Snapchat is where it ends for me/us last year...she needs something to be hers and her friends alone, without "Dad" poking is old-ass nose into things.
I think she really appreciates that I haven't bugged her about connecting and sharing on that platform, and I know deep down it was time.
But boy...do I sometimes miss that 6yo angel sending me cryptic "i luvu" via Gmail.
And fyi for fathers: Do not share a phone with your daughter. Do not borrow her phone, nor lend her yours. Some pictures are fine to be in her possession but if found in your possession could destroy your world.
And the fact that you have to say that is a great example of what's wrong with the legal system in the US. Common sense about applying laws has been stripped away.
I think there is a different dynamic with males. Boys seem to show off by photographing themselves with things, with cars, cash or even tigers. [see link] Girls seem more likely to create images focusing on their person or their friends' persons. There is also some sexual dimorphism at work. Boys simply have less to physically cover, probably making inappropriate or accidentally inappropriate images less likely.
This is partly a problem of common knowledge - where lots of people are thinking the laws are absurd, but no one wants to be the first to say it openly, because they can't know for certain that anyone else is thinking the same thing. Getting a conversation going about how ridiculous some of these prosecutions for "child porn" are would be the first step towards a sane discussion of what those kinds of child protection laws should actually be, when they should be applied and when they shouldn't, etc, so that it stops being a third rail for lawmakers.
Might also point out that the recently passed "International Megan's Law" actually places a permanent mark on these people's passports labeling them as sex offenders. These cases of a dad being permanently marked as a sex offender just for letting his daughter borrow his phone, or a 19 yro getting a naked pic from his 17 yro girlfriend, only end up being counterproductive to protecting the real victims. When you hear of someone labeled as a "sex offender" now, does it serve as a reliable warning? Or do you just wonder if the guy was unlucky enough to get caught pissing in public?
are you saying they shouldnt have a phone until they turn 18? that sounds super unrealistic
i think its important to respect their intelligence.
>There are just too many people, and I include cops in this, out there looking to get kids into serious trouble
maybe that is the problem we need to solve.
saying a young woman in high school shouldnt be allowed a phone sounds like victim blaming
"i luvu" via Gmail
They went to one of their iPods and SMSed "bee-doo!" to my wife. I don't think I've ever been prouder as a parent.
it's been virtualized and mobilized and everything by now, but kids have been entranced by this since I was a kid and something about the rhymes and the the drawings just work.
I gave all the internet safety tips I could over the years, I don't want to know what "the other stuff" are!
Besides, if you are concerned that they are showing each other their bodies you have more to worry about than snapchat because it is going to happen regardless. At least nobody has got an STD from snapchat.
And after the things I found when doing a backup of my 16 year old's computer I'm more concerned with the pictures that stick around than don't. We had a talk about why I never want pictures of naked teenage friends on my network.
But if you think you can stifle teenagers, you are wrong. You just push them into the shadows and you out of their life.
I'm not a parent, but if I had a child in the Snapchat age range I would show them how easy it is to make the impermanent permanent and that trust is placed on people, not technology. Untrustworthy people cannot be made trustworthy through technology.
Read the "Message Deletion and Retention" section: https://www.snapchat.com/privacy
Snapchat attempts to use technology to enforce the social contract of "please don't repeat everything I say to everyone you know, and don't hoard it indefinitely", which is established protocol for, say, actual in-person conversations. By implementing a casual form of endpoint security, a non-sophisticated actor at the receiving end may not break this social contract without repercussions, since nominally, only the official client can get the payload; the official client deletes the payload upon receipt, and if the official client detects that a screenshot was taken or the message was saved, it notifies the sender. That's the feature, not off-the-record messaging.
I'm sure there will be a few snapchat users that will get screwed by this but at least the majority of the use will vanish before these kids are old enough for jobs and the shit they did on snapchat doesn't show up in a background check.
Whoa, that's totally out of line here. Please post civilly and substantively, or not at all.
Your comment would be fine without the first sentence (and maybe the second).
Thanks for doing such good work!
I mean, I hope SnapChat isn't keeping photos, or else they'd be sitting on one of the largest collections of child porn in the world...
> Do you know how much money is saved by not keeping those pictures?
Okay, fine. Even if the pictures aren't stored indefinitely (I'd assume they'd do batch deletions at the end of the day or something when latency isn't as important), all of the photos are encrypted with the same symmetric key which can be found in any Snapchat binary. Which means that they aren't any more private than sending unencrypted images.
I miss the old IRC.
I do mean it, the world of emojis and stickers and selfies is too vibrant for me; IRC wasn't recorded, it was text, private and I do miss it. Still using it for IT and Open Source, but not for private stuff any more, because private friends refuses to use it.
Except by anyone in the room with logging enabled.
Do you have any tips to make this transition easy?
The number one piece of advice I can give you is to suspend any preconceptions you have, consciously or unconsciously, about the kind of person they will be...don't force them into some mold you have in mind for them...they will be separate and distinct beings from birth...treat them as such with as much love and guidance as you can muster...let them breathe...
Expose them to as many things as possible, and let them choose the things that they want to follow up on...
Model good behavior, so they will see what good behavior looks like...point out good behavior to them as opportunities arise...
And hope luck is with you...
I've been really stressed out about this, so I set out to have as many conversations with other dads as I could. The best thing that I heard was that you just need to accept it as part of their maturing process. You won't get it because you aren't meant to get it.
Then, I remind myself that when I was into AD&D, my Mom thought that I was worshipping Satan...:)
Don't worry about it. You don't need to get it. You will hate her music, you will find her friends stupid children, she will think you're boring and no longer with it, and when she's grown up, you will annoy her with unwanted advice on how best to get around in the world of 20 years ago. It's an inevitable, normal part of life, not a problem.
Gloria Wall (mother of four, spouse of Larry Wall) also has great advice that is worth repeating: You don't have to be an expert in children to be a parent -- you only have to be an expert in _your_ children.
Never forget to tell them "you are my vengeance on this world."
Hm, I searched and found more than one. Various companies: The Learning Company. Borderbund. MacKiev.
Which did you have?
EDIT: At least SpaceX and Tesla won the Crunchies instead of junk like Snapchat.
It's always just about keeping the conversation. And since a lot of the conversation is filler that need not be saved forever, snaps have a unique position.
That bit is right in your face and rewards you for increased use.
Political wonks talk about it a lot and have various daydreams of having that type of power.
It's not talked about much, and when it is you can counter it by labeling it as a "kids these days" type argument.
Trophies aren't really all that unlockable. Within the app, any trophy you haven't unlocked is a lock icon with ??? underneath it, so you don't even know what you need to do to achieve it. You can go online to find out, but neither my 12-year-old daughter nor my 17-year-old sister have bothered to do it. They just don't care. That's not what it's about for them.
How long will it last?
Still, 1. Snapchat's design is remarkable for its hidden features that you discover by social-networking, and 2. it's a much more interesting, funny, interactive press release presenting the features of a product than any other start-up I've seen. Next product video I make, I'll make it this way.
Honest question: isn't this just bad UI design?
Going from that to "what social media teens use that you don't even know about" isn't much of a stretch.
I'm not sure if I'll call mentioning these apps as "product placement".
Could be someone trying to up these app's SEO ranking. Could be just an interesting tidbit he used (he also mentioned instagram, and I doubt that was by request).
Plus, you are (were) one of the dorks and your sister is one of the cool kids. The two groups have noticeably different modes of socialising.
Facebook groups just aren't the same. There's something comforting knowing it was "just some fucking guy" hosting the website for fun.
A future when all of our communities, all of our social interactions, are routed two a small amount of services hosted by great companies is one I don't look forward to.
That kind of thing - just setting something up for the hell of it, and slowly building a community, or a group of friends that way - to me it's very special.
I remember when I first encountered USENET (early 90s). Reading scores of USENET groups and enlarging my social circle, even going to far as to go to a yearly meeting one group held for several years. Then there was the World Wide Web that everything was being funneled in to. Most of the USENET crowd I was with were deriding it, saying it didn't have that community feel.
I remember when I first encountered Slashdot (late 90s). Reading score of comments on trending topics and again, enlarging my social circle. Then there was Digg and many on Slashdot were deriding that, saying it didn't have that community feel ...
To recreate this, maybe I'll try starting a video chat when random people want to ask me for advice. Tried that today when someone sent me a random message on FB asking me for advice about living in Japan, was fun.
Very true. And like some of the other commentors are pointing out, it's somewhat sad that the old, more "natural" communities built over time are becoming a dying breed.
It's by far the easiest way to share a picture or moment with friends -- a photo is worth 1000 words and the location/time/velocity overlays add a lot of context. In many ways it's actually one of the most mature popular social networks -- it clearly learned from earlier social network attempts. I don't have to be "cool" to anyone but the relevant people to whom I send a snap.
It feels private enough -- hot girls like to use it and that will get anyone on any platform/club/bar/social location. Sorry to all of you who are using other slower, more ad-ridden networks and missing out.
* picture quality sucks
* not ephemeral
* requires multiple clicks (snapchat is just one button)
* difficult to BCC (snapchat sending is ALL bcc, which is awesome)
* doesn't work well from country to country (if at all -- but getting snaps from my international friends is really really cool and works the same as local)
* no easy way to send video
* expects a reply
* is awkward to send in the middle of the night (snapchat is 100% non-emergency and just flashes the notification light)
* can't be sure anyone ever got it (snapchat forces read receipts)
*... the list is long.
An sms/mms appear in the form of a chat and you are like compelled to answer, at least to tell them that you got it.
And no, bosses/execs don't care what phone you have.
This Sunday my wife took my phone and just took a silly picture of ourselves during the Super Bowl and sent it to everyone on my list. Within minutes, I was getting a response from pretty much everyone, some people I haven't even talked to in months, and it was fun and made us laugh! I had the dumbest epiphany of my life. It's really just a fast, dumb way to communicate. That's it. Maybe I'll actually use it more now
It reminds me of Facebook back in the day, when it wasn't so serious. When it wasn't full of politics and Buzzfeed and not-so-humblebrags.
You don't have to worry (as much) about a silly photo coming back to haunt you in 10 years on Snapchat. It's much less formal feeling. The faces are my favorite; it's just a lot of fun to use.
Nobody cares what you do in public.
We used to have ICQ, AIM, MSN, YIM, and a host of other lesser known methods to chat. This is just one geared toward sending quick pictures. I doubt the privacy part of it is even significant to most users.
On Snapchat, every picture and chat message self-destructs by default, so there's less social pressure to post something truly extraordinary. There's no publicly visible tracking of likes, so you're not tempted to compare your popularity with others. There is no infinite history where you can come across something old that will make you embarrassed and upset (e.g. records of bad decisions, photos with an ex).
Sending snaps back and forth is great for staying in touch with friends without having to converse about a particular topic. For acquaintances who you don't know as well, an amusing snap is a great icebreaker. And for when you DO want to have a conversation, there's both an IM and a video chat.
The Discover feature where you see content from VIPs directly competes with a significant use-case of Twitter in the target demographic. But unlike Twitter, it's more visual, more immersive, and because of its temporal nature, more exclusive.
Moreover, teens hate creeps. You know every time someone views your snap. You know when someone screenshots your snap. You know when your chat is read. You know when someone views your story. Your audience is exactly who you choose. It's not the internet at large. It's not your mom, it's not the weird guy in your school who found your profile, and it's not people way outside your age-range who are thirst-liking your selfies and making you uncomfortable.
The new 2d printed avatars that allow you to easily add people you meet are perfect. Shows Snapchat really understand their audience.
Snapchat may have been bootstrapped with sexting but it is so much more than that now. They've hit on something that no other social network has - an audience of regular people who aren't selling anything, who want to retain their privacy and who want to have fun with friends and acquiantances online.
So much of the content I see on Snapchat would never be shared anywhere else - and a lot of the people sharing it are those who weren't interested in building a profile on public pages.
1) what carrier does that girl have? And at what cost? With German internet prices, we'd look at a 500€ per month alone for data, not to mention other data using apps, calls, SMSes...
2) what the fuck, I use Netflix at home quite regularly and rarely exceed 50 GByte (I'm on a 50/5 VDSL so it isn't a lack of speed) of traffic. How many billions of crappy front cam selfies can be shared in 60 GB of data?
And they don't even look at the pictures!
Torrenting games and 1080p movies is even worse - at 10-60 gb a pop, the time to hit a 300 gb cap is limited only by your download speed.
Um, if you're in the U.S. probably not. Most have some kind of limits even on 'unlimited' such as your connection goes to ISDN speed.
Even my cable modem has a 350GB a month cap which I occasionally exceed.
Yeah... but in Germany the biggest cap available is 10GB for 25€ (http://www.billiger-telefonieren.de/mobiles-internet-verglei...) and these are data-only SIMs, truly unlimited does not exist for us.
On the other hand, while shockingly low caps are generally accepted on mobile, people do protest whenever a provider tries to place caps on landline (VDSL, DOCSIS) contracts.
What plans are you looking at? For a family of 4, unlimited data on T-mobile for instance costs 150 USD for the entire family or 37.5 USD per phone.
"typical download speeds of 40Kbps-200Kbps and upload speeds of 20-80 Kbps"
Snapchat is going to get pretty painful pretty quickly.
But in principle, I absolutely agree with you. Caps, etc? Should go away, yesterday.
So most of my data use is not from my phone's data plan. Did she specify it was?
That having been said, 60gb is a shitload and I think 1) it may not be true and 2) she's an outlier who uses snaps for scoring. While undoubtedly more people do that, most young people I know send a few snaps a day at most, not 40 over breakfast.
I didn't get the impression from the article that this was exclusively snapchat. I agree you'd have a hard time hitting 60gb/mo unless you're streaming a lot of video. To be fair, snapchat does have video, and the whole point of this exercise is that we cannot fathom how The Children use it these days, so...who knows.
Snapchat strikes me as a really unique modality. It's not really a message type that we can draw some kind of lineage back to PARC or Bell Labs or whatever. Slack follows a familiar pattern of 'oh yeah, that's just like IRC and they had those running on Altos a million years ago'. SMS, yeah that's just chat. And so on...
Was there a Snapchat equivalent back in the dark ages of networked computers? Not that I'm familiar with (although I'd love to see an example). I think that fact points to a meaningful difference between the computer that's in your hand or your pocket all the time and the 'workstation' that's on your desk. A computer that's always with you can deliver different kinds of messages and project different kinds of presence from other people you know. I hope Snapchat is just the beginning of this.
Snapchat doesn't have some kind of physical equivalency like a book or a note on the fridge. I don't think appreciating that is necessarily pegged to age, but more to openness. Snapchat is just legitimately unfamiliar and unusual. From afar, I think that's great.
Good god, there's still a manual online: http://web.stanford.edu/group/privacyproject/currentStateUni...
"They have no control over what text the message replaces, but can always press the key combination control-L to restore their screen."
One of the most interesting responses I heard what that Snapchat was what they used to connect with people they didnt know too well, but wanted to stay in touch with. For example, if they meet someone, but dont know them too well, they would exchange Snapchat information. It is literally like Facebook was for the last generation.
This makes a lot of sense. I was starting college in 2005 when facebook was really starting to blow up, and this was exactly how I used (and enjoyed) it. There were times when I would just flip through the directory of people in my college and if I recognized your face from class or walking around, I'd add you, send a few messages to break the ice, then meet in person if it felt like we connected.
If anyone else is like me and started with facebook around this time and still has their profile, take a look at some of the posts and friends you had from over 10 years ago. It's pretty remarkable to get such a look at your younger self.
Snapchat is not about snapchat, it is about having a space to themselves.
That way users can see,hear,smell,feel & taste everything that their friends are experiencing .... simultaneously, and in real time. Continuously, all day, everyday.
Now, who wouldnt want that ?
Adding adults to a service is the sure fire way to run off the children.
Later on in life, when they 'grow out' of snapchat, they will replace the addiction with something else - some other app, but also food, drugs or sex.
Whatever thing they will find interesting, they will pursue it with the same pattern that they learn with these apps / games.
This future generation will have to find a way to live with all this addictive technology and survive in the real world.
Might well be that Snapchat (and others) will be looked at as we're now looking at cigarettes.
Teens go through this phase. They're time-rich, money-poor and have few commitments and obligations. In the 70s and 80s they spent the time at an arcade becoming savant-level good at pacman or asteroids or whatever. A natural part of leaving your teens is slowly inheriting a bunch of obligations that you must meet (bills, employment, etc.) which take away the free time you had to utterly saturate yourself in whatever hobbies you had, and thus you become more selective in what sinks you plough your time into (and the depth of those sinks).
This is no worse than what any other generation went through. There'll be outliers of whatever time sinks in any generation. Don't sweat it.
It's only negative when that becomes a problem somehow in your life.
It's not even clear to me that we'd be better off with a fully mindful approach to every pleasure and activity.
What is unhealthy though, is disparaging everything other people enjoy. Especially when you don't have the courage to say "I don't like it" but couch your disapproval in terms of concern for their "addictions"
I think you're always overgeneralizing everything...
Seem like a pattern, predicting that future, is emerging. E.g. My parent's teenage hobby was musical instruments. Mine was playing video games. Kids today it seems is responding to selfies.
pg also has a good essay on the Acceleration of Addictiveness* that seems relevant.
> shallow lifestyle void of any meaning
Which is more social than either of the other hobbies you mentioned. How is it shallow and void of any meaning?
The girl in TFA just dumps the snapchats she's sent, flicking through them just to be rid of them. She's not being social, she's just incrementing a counter to boast about. Well, unless you're calling the boasting the social part, I guess, but I wouldn't say that that was more social than learning a musical instrument.
> BROOKE: Don’t Snapchat boys that you like first — wait until they Snapchat you.
Reminded me of the movie All About Eve (1950), when Bill says: "What I go after, I want to go after. I don't want it to come after me. Don't cry. Just score it as an incomplete forward pass."
...and of course, everything else in past and modern Western culture that advises women to be the chased.
Protesting child labor in beginning of the 20th century? How beholden to the whims of mainstream society, how desperate those people must have been for social acceptance that they protested such a common and accepted practice.
How were the older generations so incapable of independent thought to be easily conned into warring in the Middle East? The Drug Wars? Vietnam? Korea? Prohibition? Wars in Texas/Mexico and with pre-existing indigenous peoples?
How on earth did massive, completely non-functional flares in the legs of pants, or oversized suitcoats, or cravats ever make sense?
When we learn to love the awareness and consciousnesses around us we can love the change for simply being, instead of decrying it for being different from what we've previously experienced.
First off - when did any of those lead to harm, considering they don't really concretely "bear fruit"?
Secondly - how is the time spent on social media "really really" the one we are being reasonable about this time?
Increased connection with peers, for one. It's incredibly easy to network now. I'm young, and wasn't around for what you're looking back on as the good old days, but I disagree that there is no value to being able to send a one off "look what I'm doing" to a friend.
Is it, really? The girl in this article basically doesn't even LOOK at the pictures. The "conversation" is effectively: "Look at what I'm doing" "I don't care what you're doing" "Look at what I'm doing" "I don't care what you're doing" That doesn't seem like "increased connection".
But, this is also what I expect from a 13 year old.
Good TV shows and video games are highly memorable, perhaps even life-changing experiences.
I think it's valid to say that there are varying levels of quality in leisure.
But 'kids these days' are actually threatened this time. With inactivity, sugar, constant media bombardment, record-short attention spans. The list goes on. They're being raised in an environment that no animal was ever exposed to before in history.
And they keep making more frantic devices, and the kids keep buying them. And we'll run off the cliff like lemmings and wonder what happened.
The majority of people in any country are basically useless idiots w.r.t making policy decisions or creating something beneficial for society. That said, we can't discount the social benefit of the subset who are basically idiots but empathetic care-givers.
The shame is the number of resources being consumed by useless idiots in developed countries and elites vs. say useless idiots in Afghanistan or Bangladesh.
I agree that the fact that apps are becoming Skinner boxes is problematic.
As far as I can tell, most people in any time period have been like this.
Desperate for social acceptance: There's that "keeping up with the Joneses" thing. Nothing new.
Incapable of independent thought: If most people in the past had been capable, mass movements like Christianity, Islam, Nazism, Communism etc. would never have caught on like they did.
Easily manipulated: Didn't aristocrats etc. manipulate peasants/serfs back in the Middle Ages?
Once we've experienced quantity, quality gains importance. Simultaneously, our need for social acceptance might not diminish, but it becomes far more refined.
I've loved video games since I was about 7. I've made a good living off of video games.
In my thirties, I never once thought "Man, I wish I'd spent more time playing video games in my twenties."
Now, as I turn 40, I wonder how different my life would have been if I'd spent more time doing other things, instead of playing video games.
The process of aging is impossible to convey fully, but it's fascinating to be on the other side, having lived the transition.
Do you mind sharing what these other things are, specifically? Thanks!
2. Continuing to train for Tennis. You really can get too old to do this at an elite level. I love training, and I love being in the zone: perceiving / acting / crushing the opposition. Sport is a natural fit for my attention, physicality, and aggression, whereas long-term projects are more of an uphill battle.
3. More travel, although I'm not really that interested in individual people, so perhaps it would have been wasted. To the extent that I'm interested in other people now, it's to figure out what they know that I don't know and how they acquired that knowledge or experience.
Don't get me wrong. My life is pretty sweet, but I do have regrets. It's more that I'm realizing the difference between turning 30 and turning 40. At 30 you can pretty much do everything you could do in your twenties. At 40, doors are closing, esp. regarding physical injuries and recuperation.
I just kind of always assumed that I'd have a PhD by 25, be a concert pianist, a professional tennis player, and a software millionaire. I've had brushes with each, but so far no completion. Boo fucking hoo, right? Unrealistic expectations.
It's not about being elite. I know a ton of guys in the bodybuilding community, and they basically say "if I don't think I'm going to WIN, I'm not even going to start."
So now it's been three years since they've stepped on the stage. That's a ton of wasted time for a "bodybuilder".
I don't get that way of thinking.
When I compete in sports, I compete to have fun, make friends, and compete to NOT GET LAST PLACE. This isn't my passion, it's my fun man-outlet. Let the maniacs have first place.
Yeah, this is a trap. I actually enjoy the training, as long as I'm seeing some progress.
> When I compete in sports, I compete to have fun, make friends, and compete to NOT GET LAST PLACE.
I'm not interested in the social aspect at all, for better or worse. In part this is because I've seen social / club players fail to improve because of bad habits they pick up and reinforce during social play. My parents spent a bunch of money on training, but I also picked up a lot of bad habits due to incorrect technique from parental coaching.
I should say that for me the sweetest moment is after hitting an ace, a winner, or running down a ball I didn't think I could get. It's not necessarily about the win, but about the perfect shot, the sweet feeling of it, the sound of it, the smell of the ball, etc. So, that's definitely something I can still enjoy.
I spent some time this fall solo-practicing against a ball-machine and watching Roger Federer videos on Youtube. My backhand is better than it's been at any point in my development.
I think it's important to aim for excellence, not just competence, because I see many players' development limited by basically not taking the sport seriously.
But of course, what ever makes you happy. My cruel task-master is that excellence makes me happy.
So overall, very positive. The core of the regret is more like -- huh, if I had realized how to study / train systematically ten-twenty years ago I could be on a different trajectory.
You can download your own snaps from the app within 24 hours if you posted it to your story (which you probably did).
In WHAT moment? That moment when someone snapchats a snapchat for the sake of snapchatting?
Hey, I have a 14yo son who texts like a maniac and never takes his earbuds out of his ears. He has hundreds of thousands of views on his G+ profile, which is the thing him and his friends are all over. But lately they've moved to Facebook because they follow their favorite Bands' pages.
It's so confusing.
If our parents wanted to know what was going on in our lives, they quietly picked up the other phone on the land-line in the house and eavesdropped.
Now, we have to snoop and lurk on our kids' social profiles, or try to sneak a peak at their texts when their phones buzz.
Seeing the film Boyhood reminded me of how fluid your identity is at this age. I think these teens will discard Snapchat forms of communication in a few years, as you change so much in this window.
I was staring dumbfoundedly the entire time. It blew my mind, and made me realize how out of touch I am in my 27 years of age.