(Or examine the maker accounts on the front page of PH...)
I simply stopped visiting months ago when I realized I was never going to be allowed to participate in the site.
The largest problem is that even long time users can't comment. I've requested commenting access for it several times. I feel like I have a lot to contribute to these product discussions and simply can't.
Not much point in visiting a site when you can't contribute yourself and you can't help but wonder how much better the conversations would be if others could comment outside a small inner-club of people.
Then (correct me if I'm wrong) they also got funding so... things do not really seem kosher to me.
So I think that this open platform should prove interesting...
Yeah, that would be nice. I mean, I can see the value in "direct to the product owner" comments, but some venue for public discussion would also be nice.
There's a podcast episode maybe a year ago with Erik Torenberg (co-founder) where he discusses in more detail. He also talks about focusing the communication by splitting PH into verticals for games, books, etc. as it is now, but at the time it hadn't happened yet.
For instance the person I got mine from is a mid-career technical founder in the midwest who's hard working but not rich or well known. Personally I am not yet a successful founder and have minimal connections in the Bay Area. I attributed getting it to being at the right place at the right time.
I've been a Product Hunt user from their initial HN launch and am still a big fan. They've made a very important impact in the tech scene. Open Hunt is an honest attempt at a community run alternative, tailored to giving / getting feedback, and finding very early stage stuff.
Would love your feedback!
It probably makes sense to switch off them in due time (since it's just one more dependency). But it allowed us to launch fast.
I'll create a github issue to track this.
Which is to be expected, "vocal minority" and all.
twitter only login is going away soon
That being said, it reminds me of another service with the same goals: Ello, who also said they were not going to take venture capital. We know how that turned out.
I mentioned in the threads that a Hacker News/PH competitor may not be better mechanically. There's still a lot of work that needs to be done there, particularly with ranking algorithms.
They did say they would not monetize users via privacy invasion like Facebook.
Well, that is part of the value of a community/open source project, is the fact you can experiment/test various ranking algorithms rather openly without the assumption of malice/rigging.
Tbh, I think the OP has the right idea [in general] but the wrong execution. [e.g. The jab at PH in the name, rebranding after the initial influx of traffic, no clear strategy for experimentation with ranking algorithms in a crowd/open sourced manner, private comments]
I'm curious how quick they'll note the issues and address them. I considered building something but I keep running into RL related time constraints/problems that make it impossible for me to commit time before Jan. xD
I find the more internet-like communities more natural. Sure, the top comment on a Show HN is often a critique. However I find that more interesting than the usual "Wow, another great product from John Developer. Signing up now." or the "Wow, great product. Here is why you should use the competing product that I work on." that you usually see on Product Hunt.
Sure, it's slightly depressing that the top comment on a HN thread always seems to always be a takedown (especially when the post cites data and the comment is 'From my experience..') but the alternative is pretty terrible.
Basically, if the curation is good, I'll be there looking for improvements to my "stack".
I guess the opposite of a curated list is a list that can be spammed by anyone.
Honestly, I only signed up for Twitter to join Product Hunt. That was a huge disappointment when I found out that having an account didn't mean anything. This will be a pleasant change, it's about time.
i'm dumb for using them but it did save time (i think). we'll remove it soon and go back to a more direct oauth strategy
Yeah it's quirky that both sites force use of a Twitter account.
It's asking for scary permissions:
> Read Tweets from your timeline.
> See who you follow, and follow new people.
> Update your profile.
> Post Tweets for you.
Please, consider adding more options, or explaining how you use those permissions. (For example, you can do what you like to my facebook wall.)
EDIT: Lack of public posting is an interesting choice. It doesn't feel like much of a community. I can see that public comments risks undue negativity or aggressive feedback.
"Some other link aggregation sites are operated by corporate entities which may have significant financial incentive to censor or artificially promote the links and discussion that relate to those entities, their investments, or their competitors. Some of these sites have had moderators of popular sub-forums banned after it became known that they were being paid by 3rd party companies seeking special treatment of their submitted stories.
All moderator actions on this site are visible to everyone and the identities of those moderators are made public. While the individual actions of a moderator may cause debate, there should be no question about which moderator it was or whether they had an ulterior motive for those actions.
All user voting and story ranking on this site uses a universal algorithm and does not artificially penalize or prioritize users or domains. Per-tag hotness modifiers do affect all stories with those tags, but these modifiers are made public and usually used to shorten the life of meta-discussions. If certain domains have to be banned from being submitted due to spam, the list will be made publicly available.
If users are disruptive enough to warrant banning, they will be banned absolutely, given notice of their banning, and their disabled user profile will indicate which moderator banned them and why. There will be no hidden or childish "shadow banning" or "hellbanning" of users popular on some other sites.
The source code to this site is made available under a 3-clause BSD license for viewing, auditing, forking, or contributing to. This code is always up to date with what is running in production on this website.
Public stats are available for site requests, comments submitted, stories submitted, and users created."
> Interesting concept. I like emoji and GIFs, does openhunt support that? 🤔 <food.gif>
This is a) a jerk comment since the commenter works at Product Hunt and therefore is throwing shade at a competitor's MVP-ness and b) Product Hunt is still quirky-and-randum?
This is disappointingly unprofessional.
That being said, it's sad to see people rip on others sites/ideas blatantly. OpenHunt should quickly come up with an original design and find something unique in their approach.
But definitely back the idea - PH has become too undemocratic, and its obvious that if you don't have the right connections your product will never surface. I know people who've reached out to "influencers" on PH to have their product hunted by them.
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Quick question: PH wants people to sign up with their personal Twitter account, rather than a company one, is that the case here? I never use my personal account, so would prefer to be able to sign up using @bug_muncher
Also, I love the "You reached the beginning!" message at the bottom, not sure why, but it really made me smile :)
+1 for any alternative system.
I'm trying to build in elasticsearch support in lobsters for a personal project - it currently uses sphinx. But it could be pretty cool if you can use that as a starting point.
Not sure if this is a feature or a bug: when one clicks on the "comments" line, it opens a right-side panel for the current item; if one clicks another comments line, the right-side panel is updated with the new item => so far so good.
BUT, when one clicks on another item while the right-side panel is open, it doesn't update said panel; it opens a new tab to the item's website, but the panel doesn't change, so that when one comes back to OH, the panel doesn't match the last consulted item.
It's probably not an easy fix, because, what should happen when one opens more than one item?
However, since the comments pane is super simple, maybe it would make sense to open it under the corresponding item instead of to the side, so that it's visually related to the correct item instead of being in a generic location?
My 2 cents. Very cool initiative anyways.
BTW: your api calls for registration has exceeded
Disrupting the disrupters.
- prevent too much spam, moderation workload
- encourage honest (harsh) feedback that the product owner can take action on.
also if the same feedback comes in twice from 2 diff people, thats a great indicator. public comments do not allow that (since most people wont duplicate a comment if they already see someone else saying it)
1. A downvote system is sufficient to catch spammers, with explicitly moderation needed for edge cases. (And those edge cases would be applicable even in private commenting)
2. Harsh feedback is discouraged on Product Hunt because of the elitism. Having comments public will not discourage it. (C.f. Hacker News)
adding a real commenting system is on the table for sure, ill create a github issue for it and we can discuss with the community about pros/cons
I think this is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.
If there's one thing I know about "Show HN", it's that the community doesn't hold back on its criticism.
An alternative would be to allow comments to be shown privately or to have a messaging/mail system.
Hiding them by default is a big mistake.
OTOH, the latter site is presumably visited by potential investors and others who have a financial interest in consuming what's published.
Additionally, without "throttling", you have a ton of stuff featured, adding to the skew. Thus, much of what's submitted has only one or two votes. People are primarily posting and moving on.
Or, am I missing something?
We have some ideas on it already. Possibly some sort of queuing system where you can schedule it to post in the future, with a # of slots reserved every day for the queued up in advance ones.
But this topic will take a lot of discussion, and we're hoping we can get lots of different opinions on the matter before deciding on a course.
In the meantime, pure voting should bring the best products to the top, in a daily list. We'll also give products a chance to resubmit after a certain period of time.
Could be even broader. Or use tagging. You probably wouldn't look in the above categories for performance events, dining out, or phone sex. Must decide how wide a net you wish to cast, and what ontological approaches to use. But this, in my opinion, is where it gets interesting.
2) I think this and Product Hunt can co-exist
3) I'm interested in learning about how other members think Open Hunt can go from "open community" to "sustainable community"?
Edit: The subtitle font is way too washed out. i struggle to read it. Also some submissions are not "products" - is that appropriate?
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I am curious, why are comments/feedback all hidden? I would certainly like to read those - even if they are made anonymous.
[Now that I think about it, I should put this on the OpenHunt!]
Thanks for the heads up!
We'd like to build something sustainable, and to start that just means building the community. Monetization concerns would be an open question that I think the community could decide on later.
Would love to learn more about what you have in mind.
FWIW I think the name is pretty ordinary. "OpenHunt" just means "copy of ProductHunt" and "open" means nothing except to try to have a position against PH. What you have has no identity of its own.
I think you should step up and make OH in your vision. This wishy-washy stuff on name, public comments, etc being up to the future community--I think you need to set the standard there, and then have it open to modification later.
Also I don't see any upside in asking the community to come up with a name - you fixed the democracy problem with PH, you don't need to become community obsessed to the point of not being able to make important decisions on your own, plus the downside of the time it will take.
In your shoes I'd get a new name in as soon as humanly possible and even right now whilst this wave of traffic comes in from HN.
why OpenHunt is good for PH;
- It will be a PH's moderation app, every nice project can be submitted by PH's trusted members.
- PH can get valuable feedback from this thread.
- PH can integrate every feature from OH
tracked via https://github.com/OpenHunting/openhunt/issues/13
Day 0 : Yeah other 'PH is crap' HN/blog/medium post
Day 2 : Oh so someone 'anonymous' is building a competitor.. They are having a Google form.. How noobish
Today : haha Oh look they copied our design . how original
Future : oh we need to pivot
(If somebody affiliated with OpenHunt wants control of that sub, just message me).
or some iteration thereof...
High time you add pagination on the landing page now. :)
coincidentally i help organize a 48hr hackathon called nodeknockout.com