1. The hypothetical example you give about the Financial Times writing favorable stories for investors is an example of conflict of interest, which is a different issue than the elitist exclusivity discussed last thread. (And much more gray)
2. As noted in the previous thread, both Reddit and Hacker News are transparent in terms of submission moderation, which is what is being proposed here. (Albeit less modern)
3. Having an anonymous account post this Google Doc does not build trust in that you could build a competitor. There is more to building a link aggregator ranking system than following a Rails tutorial.
4. Having random people come together to build an idea just because they can doesn't work well. That's why Idea Sundays stopped on HN.
My dream startup would be an optimized link aggregator; the use of upvotes as a statistic for quality is why I spent so much time doing data analysis on Reddit and HN data. But this isn't the way to build a competitor.
1) I understand that the issues compared are different, but I posed a hypothetical scenario of how the issues at PH can go beyond just having a tightly-controlled growth engine for companies PH likes. PH has no ethics-policy (that we know of) and nothing stops A16Z from telling the mods that any product related to A16Z-funded-firms should get top spot at PH.
2) Fair point, but that does not mean we should not try something new :) Afterall, HN is/was an experiment to address the issue of community-decline due to growth. Also, the decline in "Show HN" (almost like second-class-citizen-status) and the fact that PH exists, indicates to some measure that a "launch platform for startups" is relevant.
3) I have added some more details about myself as well as a disclaimer of affiliations (none).
4) I intend to build this alternative with community feedback and as a Proof-of-Concept. I will not dictate "how things go", which is why I value community-feedback so much.
The notion that human curation is intrinsically better than algorithmic ranking is a Silicon Valley trend I don't feel is accurate, but that's a topic for another rant thread. (In general, I think the new semimanual approach Hacker News has been doing is an interesting idea)
It's not semi. That's the core reason why Lamer News had no chance of success, even if their broken software had worked.
It's odd that it's a controversial idea. The best Reddit communities are those that are heavily moderated.
To admit this is to admit that some people have better taste than others. Maybe that's the controversial bit. But it's the cornerstone of any new successful community. You see it pervasively everywhere you look, from SO to Reddit to HN.
The only automatic part seems to be the shape of a post's falloff curve. But the falloff shape is probably selected from a list of shapes by a person.
That's the current state. We do still send repost invites occasionally, but mostly not, because users made it clear they don't like the duplicates.
I don't think the human phase can be automated. Instead, our plan is to open it to the community, so it isn't just us and selected users picking stories. The challenge is to design a mechanism for that which doesn't just reduce to an upvoting system (since as the knight in Monty Python says about the grail, we've already got one it's very nice).
We'll also probably publish the list of stories selected in this way, whether or not they end up getting traction, because if nothing else it's alternate reading material.
* the moderators, I believe, really do what they think is best for the community,
* they work hard at a pretty thankless job
* they are pretty transparent and manage their potential conflicts of interest well, which is saying a lot, since action in virtually any thread could presimably be related.
So sure, threads can be disappered by moderators, it is what they are supposed to do. Keep the discussion in a few centralized threads and not 20 blogspam articles. Also, we should be thankful for what we don't see.
So while I thinm you have a relavent point, and they can't be perfect all the time, on balance their pretty sharp people and am thankful for their contribution,
I disagree vehemently. Reddit has tools like AutoModerator which censor content secretly. No user knows what's going on. Subreddit moderators only have some insight and it is on their discretion if they want to share it. Reddit is highly intransparent.
The tier 1 group is not as small as you think, and they are pretty diverse group of people from all around the world. When they post something, it goes up straight to the featured page. There is no censoring. They are definitely not paid by producthunt the company to submit these new products, they're merely users sharing what they discover. Their main incentive for posting on product hunt is to be the "first one" to discover a cool new app and share it with others. Now if you understood this, think about how ridiculous all your speculations are.
Whether or not it's a 'scam' is endlessly debatable but regardless of that it could definitely use some competition.
If you're after loyal users chances are PH does nothing for you.
If you want a "rocketship" then you pretty much have to be to compete.
* anyone who missed the story on HN today would have no idea what this was about,
* leading with accusations that PH is an "elitist/bro community" is needless antagonism, but most of all,
* you're pitching a non-conflict of interest alternative to PH without revealing anything about yourself.
Third, the only way to significantly improve upon these sorts of communities would be to build them on the block chain. But the technology to do that doesn't yet exist.
Genuinely interested, if you have the time, what do you mean by this? What problems could be solved by building a community website on top of a blockchain, instead of the current typical votes/comments in a database -> feed sorted by ranking algorithm method, and how?
Obviously people should open businesses - but hey, there are so many ways to do it. If you have ONLY idea, then do this two steps:
-learn basics of languages needed to start it on Codecademy so you can also help in testing, double checking code and writing some small things - like initial code for the website so the developer can focus on important things
-learn some marketing and business. Those are not that hard actually and best resources are forums imo. Start with Fastlane forum, BHW forum and BuilderSociety. All information you need for making successful startup are on this forums. Then read a bit about other startups on Medium and especially focus on startup postmortem - VERY important to learn from their mistakes.
All of this will take you 2-3 months to learn assuming you spend ~4 hours every day on them. While doing it all socialize like crazy liking and interacting with people from your startups niche on Twitter and Facebook.
Once you are done you have skills necessary to be very good idea co-funder that will bring enough to the table to want 50%.
My point was that we should avoid such negativity, and instead be supportive of people who are learning to code so that they can build their idea.
A good customer development person is worth their weight in gold (as are designers). Most programmers (including me) really do need such a person.
The typical "idea guy" however...is just annoying and unfortunately that's the people that usually randomly ask me "oh i think you can program i have this great idea...". Since parent poster learns to program he/she's way ahead of the curve though and I doubt he/she's just an idea guy.
If not, I'd really recommend you do so and also learn some Meteor.js. It's great for beginners.
I say this with experience having worked with Meteor for the past year and also some playing around with Telescope. It is worth checking out especially since it caters to a person like parent of my comment.
Setting up a customizable ProductHunt style website without much effort/coding can be a good start till you get more proficient with code or find a technical co-founder.
Just a slightly less ambivalent formulation of "a pretty good way to do X".
I would be interested in developing the app, but it's putting the cart before the horse.
But in those cases, looking at the poster's history and then reporting them to mods is a pretty good (albeit manual) solution.
I think Reddit-PH would still stand a better chance since it discourages anonymity and participation for non-established users.
Besides shadow banning, do you know what exactly Reddit does to make it difficult to game? I'd like to understand this better.
At $6 million you can hire and pay for about 10 to 15 people for a few years at a competitive salary and work from a not completely terrible office.
I'd like it if these posts weren't spreading "$N Millions of dollars!" fud so much as if it were some terrible wasteful thing. This is not someone's personal spending money that they're buying maseratis with, the founders do not get to use this money to buy themselves nice cars. It's not a life changing event, it's simply an opportunity to build a business.
Even if it relates to bad science, bad product, etc....
It's all very 'kumbaya' positive, which is fine.
That being said, I think ProductHunt will be sufficiently difficult to replicate.
I seriously want to know why someone should care about Product Hunt and what its impact and/or place is in the tech world.
helps startups get their 15 minutes and puts them onto the path of success.
Revert to the old PH design. I hadn't checked the site for > 1 month. There is an incredible amount of noise and bloat in the new interface. And it needlessly looks too much like Kickstarter, which arguably has discoverability problems of its own.
Just a Meteor Telescope app on Heroku at the moment. Any thoughts?
Could make it non profit or community owned or open source/ open admin decisions or something?
I think it was a bug squeezed out of the woodwork by unprecedented pressure from flags doing battle with vouches. We've overridden it.