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surely if mainstream is the thing you want, then more people using haskell would solve that? I don't see how moving to another language helps the mainstream problem, actually it hinders it since less people will be using your new language than are using haskell already.



"Mainstream" isn't the only reason given for not using Haskell. He also says that lazy evaluation is a bad default (too costly) for games and the syntax is too complicated.


The syntax too complicated bit bugs me. Haskell syntax is very minimal, more lisp like than C like. The syntax is "different" than traditional imperative languages but coming from Lisp/Scheme/F# background it was very easy to pick up.

I am not sure I buy that lazy evaluation is too costly either, as it is actually what buys performance gains in some areas. That was a broad statement and it doesn't hold everywhere but I just want to say that it isn't cut & dry like you make it sound.

I would say the only argument he makes against Haskell that I totally agree with is its inference engine. I have very mixed feelings about type inference. It is very nice because it makes everything so concise, yet I often find myself writing function types just for clarity. Also type errors are not fun to track down as he shows in the slide.


As much as I like Haskell, I would be nervous about using it in a AAA-class game engine. The space leaks that lazy evaluation can produce could end up even harder to debug than usual in such a complicated product.

Please note I said "nervous", not "I would never consider it ever". Another couple of years of development and I might be less nervous; Haskell has been making a lot of progress lately. Some stuff in the absolute inner core might still be C or Assembler, but I could see the bulk switching to some other language.


Space leaks are the real problem, and not just for the reason you state.

These days it's hard to even buy a computer with less than a gig of RAM, but the Playstation 3 - the most powerful console of the new generation - has only 256 megs. Granted, they're 256 really fast megs, but it's still a tiny amount of space by modern standards. You don't even have a hard drive to swap to when you run out of space - if a memory allocation fails, you work around it by hand or you crash.

If you're going to write a game engine that's meant to run on consoles, you really need fine-grained control of all the memory allocation in your system. That'd be my big worry with Haskell, more than speed or garbage collection latency or whatever.




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