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“Is PayPal good for your microISV business?” A short PayPal horror story (apparentsoft.com)
225 points by sadiq on Dec 17, 2009 | hide | past | favorite | 96 comments

I've had similar problems with Paypal accounts in the past too.

Although it's an absolute joke I have found they only respond to formal legal threats. At one point they limited my account, with a couple of grand in it, in the same way (nothing in, nothing out, wait 180 days). So I sent them a letter basically saying "release my money or your staring down the barrel of a legal gun" and listed a whole load of lost earnings, recompense etc. I "would be seeking".

For the most part it was empty threats (I could probably have sued - but had no cash to do so) but someone actually rang me the day it arrived; never mentioned the letter but "a standard review of closed cases highlighted mine for reopening"...

It's idiotic.

It's actually not so terribly dumb. The point here is to prevent fraud. People who take the time to credibly threaten legal action are, I strongly suspect, much less likely to be engaged in fraud. Real criminals would just walk away from the cash (lest they attract more attention) and put up another site on another PayPal account.

It's more than just squeaky wheel syndrome -- PayPal is using the context of your communication to determine who you are.

Whether that's ethical or not is a separate question. But it seems logical to me.

sure, but it also cripples small businesses who don't really know any better. not every small-time merchant will have the wits about them to present legal threats.

Dunno, a legal threat is the first thing that came to my mind. I don't see a situation where someone collects money from your customers and refuses to give it to you any different from someone walking into your home, smashing your piggy bank, and taking your money. The second case is obviously a crime, so it follows that the first is too. When you are a victim of a crime, negotiating with the criminal seems like a bad idea. Getting a lawyer (or the cops) involved seems like a good idea.

So if I lost my "appeal" at PayPal, I would involve the real legal system, instead of their made up one.

(OTOH, if the OP got all his money back, then he was not necessarily wronged. Banks can refuse to do business with companies they are unsure about.)

Not to nit too much (because I think this is exactly the right thing to do) but threatening to sue someone isn't the same thing as accusing them of a crime. If someone is tried for larceny, the point is that they are punished by the state to deter future crimes. The goal is not to return the stolen property to the owner; that's what a civil suit is for.

And indeed, in the business world this happens all the time. Companies delay and defer payments to each other all the time trying to maximize profits. The situation usually comes to equilibrium without court action (e.g. "pay me for the last shipment or you won't get the next"), but it's really common. "Payment up front" is a consumer thing. B2B transactions are a whole lot more complicated.

> So if I lost my "appeal" at PayPal, I would involve the real legal system, instead of their made up one.

That's not really worth it though.

Im smart enough [sic] to write a letter that sounds sufficiently legal and blustery for them to take notice. But taking real action costs a bomb...

I felt a bit silly doing it but it was one of those "oh ffs" moments - I couldn't face another month of getting nowhere :) If they had called my bluff I would have backed down and tried another tack; but it occurred to me at the time that it might work, and was at least worth trying as a shortcut.

What about a basic specialist company that represented people in these situations for a fee or percentage of the money being withheld? "Lawyer" sounds expensive and scary to many people, but if the pitch was very specific, people might go for it?

it is also the first thing that came to my mind, but i'd argue that we (as are, likely, most people on HN) in the minority, being more knowledgeable about the legal, technical and business aspects of the situation than the average small business owner.

"a standard review of closed cases highlighted mine for reopening"

I think that's in fact true. As in, their standard review of closed cases includes a clause that they should indulge in the face of legal threats in most cases.

But it does sound funny!

Time and time again I've heard these PayPal horror stories (and at www.paypalsucks.com). I am very leery of PayPal and make it a point to always transfer any balance out immediately, as their freezes seem like a nightmare to deal with. I wish Google Checkout had a more compelling product, and that there were a better solution for C2C sales.

I dug around a little. Apparently PayPal's problem is that some folks are selling pirated stuff (dvds, etc.), while advertising them as legit and using PayPal to do so. Under these circumstances they have to use any means they can to verify that the seller is legit and the software (whatever) is not pirated.

Apparently they were trying to do this here, but a bunch of emails wouldn't cut it. I can actually understand that.

However, there should be a channel for companies to pursue to expedite the process. If I were the Apparent Software, I would send a letter from an attorney- perhaps an affidavit- testifying to what I was trying to do. This would at least take PayPal off the legal hook for anything they are trying to do.

And it's a lesson for all of us. If we want to partner like this, we have to make it easy for our "silent" partners (PayPal, Google Checkout, Amazon-- they are all in the same boat here) to play along. I'm grateful to the blogger for posting: this problem wouldn't have occurred to me.

On the first page of the fax we wrote all 6 paypal accounts of our partners + all the URLs at _their sites_ where they show link to the sale.

Surely, the 6 vendors won't point to a pirate selling web site, right? Also, we provided all their 6 paypal accounts. They could just call them to verify (which they apparently did when processing limitations of my partner's account).

Jacob. Apparent Software.

That seems like enough to me, but the problem apparently is that you couldn't get through to someone who actually had authority+knowledge to fix this. It sounds like you can't even get anybody who can tell you what evidence is required. That is a total FAIL on PayPal's part.

But Google does the same thing. I have an issue with adwords that comes up over and over, and nobody there will give me a workaround.

Apparently the specialists were incompetent to distinguish between standard pirated software sale and a software vendor's niche product.

It may have been the bundling that caused the problems- I don't know. If one of my competitors started bundling my software with theirs I would be grateful for this kind of leverage. On the other hand, there should be some known (= advertised) means of acceptable proof for resolving disputes.

If may also make a difference if you are working as a sole proprietor vs having a govt id # (EIN in the US). But this is wild speculation.

Google isn't exactly easy when it comes to dispute resolution.

Does google even have non-automated solutions if you ever get in trouble?

I was able to get a voice once. It was just sheer luck. She was very nice, but two things happened: they had just transitioned to their new adwords format, she was indicating something about it, and I pointed out that some feature was missing (like "see all ads" or something... I don't quite remember). Within minutes (same phone conversation) that was fixed.

But my problem remains. I sell an educational software product, but I get lumped in with the "essay farms" that sell complete papers to students. So every time I change an ad... even just the price... I have to go through a lengthy review process.

I asked her to institute some sort of trust system-- with occasional spot-checks, of course, to allow my ads to come up in reasonable time. Even my grocery store has a payment trust system!

Still waiting for that system.

They do if you're a big spender.

I've heard horror story after horror story and yet I've never had any issues with PayPal. I've stored money there, used their Visa/debit cart and even opted into their money market option and made some money (off my money) for several years.

Factoring in anecdotal evidence like this (or mine) always has risks.

I'm sure you could find someone local who absolutely hates the bank you choose to have accounts with, but that doesn't necessarily mean you'll have issues.

I've read horror story after horror story of houses burned down.

I've been living in one for decades without any problems.

Factoring in anecdotal evidence like this (or mine) always has risks.

I've heard those stories too. That's why we have fire alarms.

When does the plural of anecdote become data? At least, there will be a point where we've got enough data points to start taking precautions.

I’ve been using PayPal for five years and have had accounts in 3 different countries, personal and business.

I have experienced my account having been frozen a few times, but in all but one case it was just a matter of uploading the required documents. The one case where this wasn’t enough was because an account had been frozen with the claim that I used it for “cash advance”, but the actual reason was something else, so I had to call them — they do have a number you can call with an actual human in the other end.

I have also sold to a lot of people via PayPal, and there is definitely a lot of fraud going on, as people have used stolen credit cards and hacked accounts more times than I’d thought to buy my product — so to some degree I do understand why PayPal are pretty strict. They are also under a lot of external regulation about anti money laundering and similar.

I've had one account closed down, but luckily I hadn't registered bank account details etc., only one of my credit cards. I recommend only ever registering the bare minimum of details with any given PayPal account, so that you can open up a new one with a different email address and different set of details.

Did you get a reason as to why it was closed down?

Can you tell more about "money market option"? I'd like to try it but I can't find it anywhere in my PayPal account.

This is only for US accounts.

I've processed about $80K in transactions with PayPal with my microISV with no problems. And I think they're better than all the other solutions. But I never keep a balance because I'm afraid of this sort of thing.

Something like this happened with a charity drive at SomethingAwful: http://www.somethingawful.com/d/news/paypal-fiasco-summary.p...

There's apparently no way to quickly talk to an intelligent person with the knowledge and authority to resolve a situation like this should one come up. It seems like with the fees they take out they could do a lot better.

Same here. I've been using them for years with no problems. These stories worry me enough that I do an annual review of the other options out there -- but none of them are as good as PayPal. I also don't keep funds in my PP account, as well as transfer them out of the associated bank account ASAP since there is the potential that they could drain that as well.

You may be able to avoid the biggest problem - which is money 'trapped' in the account by depositing all your funds, daily, into your bank account. Its called Daily Sweep. Wait, you've never heard of it? Oh yes, thats because not only is it -not- advertised or mentioned anywhere on the site but to activate the -option- it you need to call up on the phone!

But its quite easy to do once you know about it. With your biz paypal account call up and request activation of Daily Sweep. If the first person says they dont know what you mean keep asking, eventually someone will admit it (only took us 2 tries!) and set up the option. Now in your account activate it under your prefs.

Every day, the earnings will be Swept into your bank account, just like a Merchant Account. No guarantees they wont try to, say, pull money from your bank account tho...

Yes, what is to stop PayPal from requesting all the funds back from your linked account? Can you ask your bank to prevent this?

Bank accounts are free. I have my personal account, my business account and a "throwaway" account I use only for PayPal funds. When my PayPal balance gets over a few hundred $$, I manually transfer to the throwaway account and then to the business account. They can't touch the business account because (a) they don't know about it and (b) they have no authorization to touch it, so if they somehow managed to withdraw funds, I'd be at the local branch the next day screaming at the bank manager.

Make no bones about it, banks take unauthorized withdrawals very seriously!

Well we've only heard of this happening when there's a chargeback/claim & they had to pay the claimant. Not sure if its happened just because an account was shut down for 'risk management' Still, we prefer to keep as little $ as possible in PP's hands.

I suspect that PayPal is the payment processor of choice for all crooks and scammers. Thus, choosing them as your payment processor is risking your business reputation - they will always default to treating their customers with suspicion and if they have your cash in their coffers then they will sit on it given any excuse to be "suspicious" - that's the business model they operate within.

While the cost of processing payments is an issue (particularly with otherwise low cost software downloads) it is important to link your business to partners with a solid reputation for probity and good service.

The reason that PayPal survived and is still around is because they took a very risk averse attitude and pro-actively try to combat fraud. Most of their competitors didn't fail because of lack of customers, they failed because they couldn't handle the fraud.

If you want to get a more detailed view of the issues have a read of the interview Max Levchin gave to JL in Founders at Work.

There is a big difference between aggressive fraud protection and pooping on your customers. Being polite and handling mistakes intelligently doesn't mean they can't combat fraud effectively.

The one advantage paypal has is the fact that it isolates your site from credit card numbers. If I go to some podunk site to buy something I almost always choose the paypal option even if they have a merchant account set up. Why? Because with paypal I end up authenticated with paypal.com and I know that no important info is passing through to the podunk site's servers.

Otherwise I'm entering my credit card number into their site and I have no way of knowing how good or crappy their security is. I'm basically having to trust them not to do something stupid like store it in their DB, or mail it plaintext to their order processing guy, or some other brain dead thing.

As you say, good for the consumer who may not have confidence in a site's honesty.

Good for the site too, in that a consumer's credit card information never touches your database; less liability in case of a data breach.

The way I see it, for something as critical as payment infrastructure, it is simply not an option to go with someone who doesn't have a phone number where you can speak to a real, intelligent person who can act beyond the confines of a few support call scripts.

This is largely why we use a merchant account with a real bank (which has a dedicated account manager), and a gateway with quality support staff that always pick up the phone.

Absolutely. PayPal is fine right up until the point when they cut you off, and then you have virtually no recourse. A similar thing happened to me (though I was dealing in physical goods), and I was never able to get it straightened out. They kept asking for more info, I kept faxing it to them; it was never really clear to me what specifically they found suspicious or what I had to do to allay their fears. Having to interact by fax with people who have no authority or incentive to resolve the matter is awful; I think they hope you just give up.

Yes - there are times when you absolutely must speak to a human being, make your systems as easy and automated as possible but when i am stuck i need to be able to pick the phone and talk to a person.

FirstDirect - are very good at that.

I've dealt with this before, and it's absolutely ridiculous. Paypal should not be in business or allowed to operate. They go around acting as if they are "bank like", but in actual reality they do not have to adhere to bank standards. This means they can do things like this. I understand there are a lot of scammers and fraudsters out there. If they need to do something like this, they cannot make it a multiweek process that will most likely end up in you waiting 180 days for your money. They also need better communication with those that have had their accounts frozen. Using their system is utterly ridiculous and not being able to talk to the actual person making a decision is even worse. We're talking rightfully earned money that people rely upon to make a living, you can't screw around with a person's living like this. I see all these Paypal developer conferences and "developers love paypal" promotion going on, and I call complete fucking horseshit on it. There's no way a single dev or software company should go near your service with service+rules like this in place.

"developers love paypal"

Do they? Because I've never met one that does.

I am really glad that I've read this. I plan to build a bit unorthodox website and I was intending to use PayPal for money transfers between the users. After reading this I am almost sure that my PayPal account would get suspended at any decent amount of popularity. Can you point out some other alternatives? I was thinking about money bookers.

With Moneybookers, you'll have the problem that they'll be flagged by US banks as a gambling site. Repeatedly. One of my customers in Europe uses Moneybookers to pay me, because their fees are really quite attractive in comparison to PayPal. But because Moneybookers are in the UK and we all know what a gambling haven the UK is, I have to keep a constant eye on my bank.

(But my bank bounces every other payment to joker.com for the same reason. Amateurs.)

Does your bank reject payments to your account done with moneybookers and you have to explicitly remind your bank that you want those payments and then everything is ok?

Occasionally. I have to admit it hasn't happened in a while, but I don't use moneybookers that often.

Sounds a lot like the various AdSense horror stories. A recent one: http://groups.google.com/group/android-discuss/browse_thread...

It's apparently very hard to scale any exchange system to exclude fraud and prevent false positives in a humane manner. AdSense, Paypal, Google Checkout, eGold, and Prosper.com have all failed to figure out how to do it reliably. You can throw fancy machine-learning techniques at the problem and isolate most of the unusual activity, but the problem then is how you filter that between fraudsters and the genuine good guys.

The basic problem is that if you're a low-margin Internet-scale transactional business, the marginal cost of distinguishing fraud from unusual non-fraud is higher than the marginal benefit from letting the transactions through. And if you're Paypal and you get the float on a bunch of locked funds without the need to following banking regulations, it's definitely not in your best interest to do.

What's an alternative to PayPal then?

Google Checkout, Amazon Payments, 2Checkout, Authorize.net, and other cc processors. Or get a merchant account.

Pretty much every big payment processor is viable so long as you have a US Bank account into which you withdraw your sales revenue—except a lot of us live outside of Bushland and thus the only option is either using a local bank/merchant account (expensive, complex, slow-moving, don't understand new technology, poor interface, etc) or paypal.

ApparentSoft is a developer based in Israel, like me. They probably opted to use PayPal because PayPal recently opened up the ability to withdraw directly to an Israeli Bank account -- something which all the ohter entrants on this list cannot do (with the possible exception of 2CO, haven't looked at them).

2CO can do international wire transfers.

I use them as a secondary account because some of my customers refuse to use PayPal, and 2CO really sucks compared to PayPal. They haven’t frozen my account, but their UI is crap, their fees are higher, there is delay before payment appears in my account, they keep a “reserve” when they do payouts, etc.

Most CC processors are much more expensive if you're only dealing with a small number of sales, they're only worth using if you're beyond a certain size which most mISVs won't be.

I've never understood what's the difference between a credit card processor and a merchant account? I've read up on them but I'm new to this and still don't really see what I should be looking for.

What about best alternatives for merchants outside of the US/Europe?

Would be glad to hear an alternative. I havent been able to find a payment processor for Mexico.

Guys in the article recommend FastSpring.

I use both PayPal and Fastspring as our payment processors (Fastspring is there to give customers an option besides paypal). Fastspring is excellent customer service, and their "springboard" interface is very nice. Fees are a bit high, but they do offer additional services on top of what you can get from PayPal.

I've built merchant processor plugins for several different systems (2checkout, worldpay, alertpay) and NONE have as nice of an API as PayPal (both regular IPN and their PayPal Pro NVP API).

We've been selling through PayPal for 7 years now without issue, and we usually process from 2 to 3 hundred transactions per month.

"I use both PayPal and Fastspring as our payment processors (Fastspring is there to give customers an option besides paypal)."

I wonder if this is something of a best practice, to have two payment processors running live. Besides giving customers a choice, you also have the other one already up, running and accepting money if paypal or whoever freezes you.

It absolutely is. Not only can you lose your access to a payment method at any time (even a merchant account), but the service/API might be offline. Authorizenet suffered a big outage not too many months ago. The smart companies had other payment options available and simply took away the Authnet powered method until the service was restored, the companies that didn't plan so well were essentially not doing business.

Yes - this is one reason why we do this - it's basically a "backup" plan for our merchant processing. Either of the options can be turned off in a template in just a few seconds if needed. We also do it however since some users are vehemently "anti PayPal" and won't buy anything through PayPal - we don't want to lose those customers, so an alternate option is essential.

I prefer Bank-To-Bank transactions.

I've gotten to the point where I refuse to use PayPal for buying or selling products. --I can't even remember the last time I used them to do anything where it wasn't a hassle.

I suspect they probably see much higher percentages of fraud than other payment processors, and as such have decided they'd rather shut down accounts and reverse payments without warning rather than actually trying to detect and prevent fraud in the first place.

> I can't even remember the last time I used them to do anything where it wasn't a hassle.

I can. It had never been a hassle to me. If there are several payment options available I choose paypal—it knows my shipping address and saves me from filling the same borring form again.

Description of high-risk third-party payment aggregation and why its not just PayPal that has a problem with it:


While I find PayPal's rates reasonably attractive and their interface to be... uhh... better than most other merchant account or payment processing sites out there, I just don't think I can trust them to handle payment processing for me on a business scale.

I understand as much as the next guy that a company like PayPal needs to take fraud seriously. But why not work with your customers so that they can prove themselves to be legitimate businesses with legitimate intentions? I know I'd be more than happy to provide PayPal with whatever information they need in order to ensure uninterrupted service, and to prevent my account from being randomly "suspended" one day without notice or without reason.

They should get their act together and make quality customer care available for all of their Pro customers.

Wondering if anyone has a success story with PayPal?

It's been working pretty good for me.

Maybe I got lucky -- I got an excellent account rep when signing up for the API. She gave me a direct number to her desk and whenever I have a problem I call her and she fixes it.

I actually sent an email to PayPal's Executive Customer Service department telling them how great she was and how there probably wouldn't be so many paypal horror stories if they had more reps like her... and they wrote back with a generic apology for the problems I'd encountered.

I've been using Paypal for years to collect money and they have been working great.

During one month where our sales were particularaly high they froze our account too, but not for incoming transactions, so no money was lost.

I called them on the phone and was able to speak to a representative in 5 minutes who sorted it out. Not exactly a horror story.

It's been working for me. I sell a little Mac shareware app that pulls in about 3k per year (not very much). Paypal was nice to interface too (especially with CPAN's Business::PayPal::IPN). I set the whole automated registration thing up in a few hours.

I've had a couple of charge backs and those irk me to no end. Paypal always sides with the purchaser because software is intangible. I've been tempted to mail out postcards with the license code on them so that I can claim I sent something tangible out, but it seems like too much of a hassle to be worth it (it really only happens about once per year). I ended up solving the charge back problem in a technical way anyway.

9 years, a quarter million in revenue per year through PayPal alone, account never limited or frozen, and always get a helpful business representative on the phone.

I've used Paypal for three years. In that time, I've sold something on the order of $50,000 worth of software through them. I've had exactly on occasion to contact them -- a customer did not realize the charge on their credit card was due to Bingo Card Creator, called their bank and disputed it, and then Paypal asked me to explain what was up. It was resolved to the mutual satisfaction of all parties within 48 hours.

I have no complaints about them.

I've been using PayPal for 10 years without a single problem and I process many payments every week (varies week to week).

The problem is that MOST people have success stories, but it doesn't make for a very good blog post does it? One sentence nobody wants to read.

I had a similar encounter of false accusation on Sedo.com trying to sell a domain. They apparently had "definitive" evidence of shilling and closed the sale. When I asked what that evidence was, they said the buyer had the same name as I did. Maybe it was bad luck, but who'd be dumb enough to shill with his own name anyways. It's not so much that I lost the sale that bothers me, but that the lady in Germany still thinks I was trying to shill. Perhaps I should have threatened to pursue legal action?

Do business with your bank. You have a person you meet face to face whenever you need and who's going to crawl within the organization to fix that kind of problem.

What PayPal did is pretty logical given the number of fraud they get everyday. e-mail has got no legal value and from the outside what they did wasn't very rigorous.

> e-mail has got no legal value

How's that?

No signature.

.. only an electronic paper trail a mile long.

Email is absolutely of legal value.

I'd like you to exhibit cases where e-mail was ok to grant a copyright permission.

My lawyers always told me the following: everything formal must be fax, snail mail or signed with an electronic certificate (I declare and pay my taxes with the later for example).

Copyright handover is not just "ok we're going to buy you 2 computers" kind of e-mail.

And I'd like you to point out the law that says all contracts have to be written. With a few specific exceptions, they don't.

Sure, you should get them in writing and signed to cover your ass, but an email contract is still perfectly valid in most cases. Just like a "handshake agreement" can be legally binding.


"A transfer of copyright ownership, other than by operation of law, is not valid unless an instrument of conveyance, or a note or memorandum of the transfer, is in writing and signed by the owner of the rights conveyed or such owner's duly authorized agent."

There was no transfer of copyright here though.

Which country are you referring to? In France this is not the case. If there is a disagreement and nothing is written down you're screwed.

edit: I've checked up a bit. There is such a thing as "oral contract" in French law but it's very strict and limited to certain transactions.

The legal definition of contract doesn't say if it must be written or not (http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichCodeArticle.do?cidTexte=...).

It's extremely rare (read: never) to start a work without a signed fax or letter which basically says "ok, go ahead for that price".

That goes from a plumber who's going to fix your sink to me paying a designer to work on a web site. I guess in some cases an e-mail has got a valid proof, but it depends on the price of the transaction. You can confirm a 1,000 € job by e-mail, but I guess a 100,000 € transaction needs more.

What you need is a proof that the agreement occurred between the two entities.

When giving someone the right to sell your product, I'm quite certain than an oral agreement or even an e-mail is insufficient.

A printed e-mail sent by fax, let's just not talk about it. ;)

The point with this case is that the first 2 reps told me it's ok to fax emails. And then they closed the account.

And when I faxed signed paperes nobody wanted to look at them. Although they said "go ahead" and send.

The real problem is that the support personnel are not the one making decisions, are not telling the same, and you can't talk to the people who really do decide.

Plus, their action of closing my ability to receive payment (and provide service to my customers) without any warning is an extremely aggressive sanction, for no reason.

Let's close his account and then see if he was doing legit business. In the mean time, "we're sorry for any inconvenience this may caused you". When you're doing a 2-week promotion, getting an account closed even for a week for "inspection" is not an option. After 2 weeks we were back to normal low activity, without the bundle.

I'm sorry for your problem, it shows that they are not well organized, but as I said in my first comment the best is to work with your bank for online payment.

You can offer paypal as an additional payment system, but really, work with your bank. You know the guy/girl there, and they care more about your business than paypal, because your good business means money in their vaults.

In the United States, you can form a contract in pretty much any medium. Even oral contracts are respected, and certainly an email contract would be valid.

For certain types of contracts (especially regarding real property, like cars and houses) you need a written agreement.

France might have different rules.

So, is an email "signed" agreement valid or not?

This happened to my company earlier this month. The categorization, not any particular activity, of my business tripped one of PayPal's safety triggers. PayPal was unapologetic and wildly unhelpful in resolving the issue (that didn't exist!) quickly.

I once had my PayPal account "temporarily" suspended under similar circumstances. Usually, all you have to do is fax them/upload copies of documents verifying your identity and you should be set within a week, if you're persistent and diligent.

Did you not read the entire story?

I did, which is why I said "usually". This happened to me twice, and I've never had to go through so much trouble. Furthermore, as to letting PayPal know about a sale, it _is_ possible.

The first time I had an incident was because of a sale I ran, and PayPal limited the account I got it fixed in a week, just in time for a sale of another product. This time, I emailes PayPal telling them about the previous story and asking if there would be a problem. There was, and my account got limited for a second time.

What I did then was, instead of submitting documents, I uploaded a screenshot of my email correspondence with PayPal, and their response. One or two days later, my account was free.

I have heard that if you notify paypal you may see a big spike, then when it gets auto-flagged, it will quickly be un flagged when they see the note on your file.

Very disturbing and frightening read - especially because I've stumbled such horror stories about PayPal quite a lot the last couple of months.

Welcome to your traditional merchant account.

Processors are all powerful.

Consumers are always right.

Businesses are expendable . . .

despite providing the fundamental opportunity for the processors to exist.

This is why I use Amazon Payments. Unfortunately, their documentation is awful, but at least it's Amazon. They have a pride and reputation. I've never had a problem with them.

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